Peach+ Get Pimpslapped!

[crazycrackers]

I don't really care if its taken out since the difference isn't that big. If there IS a trade-off for this where another move gets slightly more knockback as you said there most likely will be I'd think that Nair would be perfect for this. Anyone else agree?

 

[slikvik]

I don't really care if its taken out since the difference isn't that big. If there IS a trade-off for this where another move gets slightly more knockback as you said there most likely will be I'd think that Nair would be perfect for this. Anyone else agree?

I agree with this

 

[crazycrackers]

we peach users are on the same wavelink :D

 

[Roxas215]

Umm pillar nairs are already too good. Yall want to make that move even better? SIGN ME UP!

 

[crazycrackers]

i'd say nair can be made as powerful as bair.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Peach Bomber could stand to kill at about 100 less damage than it does now.

 

[Meru.]

Peach Bomber could stand to kill at about 100 less damage than it does now.

YES! I'd like the Nair thing too, but I prefer this.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Hey, would any of you guys agree with shortening the landing lag on Peach's up b? Just a little bit? Cuz I'm fighting with someone over this on the nightly builds thread, and I want some of your opinions.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

It would be useful but in hindsight I can't remember the last time I was actually forced to land on the ground directly from an Up+B. Faster left/right movement during Up+B would be a higher priority, methinks.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

ok does anyone else think that peach's up b should be fine tuned a little bit? I think you guys should really think about it. It could become much more useful with a little tweaking. ^_^

 

[Roxas215]

up b is fine the way it is. Peach is fine the way she is. She dont need any tweaking at all. Only reason we are discussing it is because there going to do something to her fair.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I dont think up b is fine right now. Let's see....


Hits dont link together well

mediocre vertical recovery

LOTS OF LANDING LAG

hard to hit with the climax hit

DID I MENTION LANDING LAG?

Also, slow horizontal movement

 

[Roxas215]

I dont think up b is fine right now. Let's see....


Hits dont link together well

mediocre vertical recovery

LOTS OF LANDING LAG

hard to hit with the climax hit

DID I MENTION LANDING LAG?

Also, slow horizontal movement

Maybe because we not suppose to be using her up b as a attack?

As a recovery it is above average. Thats what it's suppose to be. Do people use ice climbers up b to attack? Her up b is already better then it was in melee. Buffing the attack is just doing so because we have the power to do so. Not because she needs it.

 

[crazycrackers]

Excuse me? Who even uses upB when your not recovering? Most characters don't even use their upB for anything besides off stage play.

I still think Nair would be great, and way more influential than sideB. sideB is waaaaay less practical than Nair and when you play someone who doesn't overabuse rolls/spot dodges it becomes even less practical. Nair is just sweet. Nair pillars ftw

 

[Roxas215]

Excuse me? Who even uses upB when your not recovering? Most characters don't even use their upB for anything besides off stage play.

I still think Nair would be great, and way more influential than sideB. sideB is waaaaay less practical than Nair and when you play someone who doesn't overabuse rolls/spot dodges it becomes even less practical. Nair is just sweet. Nair pillars ftw

cosign!!!

Even though i have been landing peach bombers alot more in brawl+ but this is probably due to faster nature of the game and people not expecting it. Dash cancel peach bomber is too good lol.

 

[crazycrackers]

If for some reason a knockback buff isn't wanted we could always buff the range just a touch

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Now that I think about it, tweaking nair would be quite useful. What do you guys think should be done with it? I personally would like a slight cut off of end lag and maybe a frame or two or startup (it was like 2 or 3 frame startup in melee, and now it's like 4 in brawl). But, maybe that's just me.

 

[crazycrackers]

Now that I think about it, tweaking nair would be quite useful. What do you guys think should be done with it? I personally would like a slight cut off of end lag and maybe a frame or two or startup (it was like 2 or 3 frame startup in melee, and now it's like 4 in brawl). But, maybe that's just me.

Nair has basically NO ending lag autocanceled and has instant startup. The speed is perfect. A buff to the knockback or range is probably the most helpful.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

the range isnt too bad, a 25% hitbox increase is probably, at most, what is needed.

About the speed: yeah, you're probably right. cutting off ending lag would screw up autocanceling it. >

Damage: initial hit is 13%, you could buff that to 15%. second hit is 10%, you could buff that to 12%. Delayed second hit is 9%, you could buff that to 10%. To get these, i first set 13 to 15, and increase each other damage proportionally to the first hit.

 

[crazycrackers]

the range isnt too bad, a 25% hitbox increase is probably, at most, what is needed.

About the speed: yeah, you're probably right. cutting off ending lag would screw up autocanceling it. >

Damage: initial hit is 13%, you could buff that to 15%. second hit is 10%, you could buff that to 12%. Delayed second hit is 9%, you could buff that to 10%. To get these, i first set 13 to 15, and increase each other damage proportionally to the first hit.

Dam. I meant to say knockback or range. 15% is way too much for a move that fast. Fair and sideB do 15%. The damage is fine the way it is. If it could kill a litle better (like bair) it would be perfect to me.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

hmm.... i have no idea how the knockback works, though, so that's your problem...er, experiment to deal with.

 

[crazycrackers]

Knockback isn't hard to work with.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

well, can we request on the nightly builds to buff nair's knockback? please? you post there if you want to, because they don't appear to like me very much. *coughcough*

 

[Morrigan]

Why would you buff it? Why do you guys want to buff everything? o_o

 

[SymphonicSage12]

well, im changing my mind from up b to nair. Nair would be better if it had a slight knockback increase. And the nightly builds people need to be more openminded. The entire brawl plus is an experiment. Well, sometimes experiments dont work out right. so, why cant we just TRY Things out? Let's give nair a slight knockback buff. If we don't like it, we remove it from the codeset. if we DO like it, we keep it. It's as simple as that.

At nightly people: lrn2opnmind'd

 

[crazycrackers]

Why would you buff it? Why do you guys want to buff everything? o_o

fair is being reverted to how it was before (it'll kill like it did before, aka later). Therefore we were offered a tradeoff. That is why we suggested to buff nairs knockback to make it like bair. This wasn't just a random buff request. We wouldn't talk about changes (because we're not supposed to) unless the window was opened for us, which it was.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

So we're agreeing on Fair knockback nuetralization in exchange for a Nair knockback buff? that seems kind onesided to me. something actually has to be nerfed, instead of just normalized. I think something else needs to be nerfed still, in my opinion. idk what though.

 

[crazycrackers]

So we're agreeing on Fair knockback nuetralization in exchange for a Nair knockback buff? that seems kind onesided to me. something actually has to be nerfed, instead of just normalized. I think something else needs to be nerfed still, in my opinion. idk what though.

we were offered a tradeoff. I they want to give us one I'll take it.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

ok then. TO THE NIGHTLY BUILDS THREAD, AWAY!!

 

[Roxas215]

well, im changing my mind from up b to nair. Nair would be better if it had a slight knockback increase. And the nightly builds people need to be more openminded. The entire brawl plus is an experiment. Well, sometimes experiments dont work out right. so, why cant we just TRY Things out? Let's give nair a slight knockback buff. If we don't like it, we remove it from the codeset. if we DO like it, we keep it. It's as simple as that.

At nightly people: lrn2opnmind'd

It's not about if we like it or not or being open minded. I don't think no one actually dislikes it when their char gets buffed. It's about rather if the char NEEDS it or not. I loved ivy's faster razor leaves and lucario's up b buff. But i understood why people complained about it and accepted it when it was changed. Lucario did not NEED that up b buff(im on the fence of ivy but whats done is done) The brawl+ project should be passed the "experimentation" part and be focused on little tweaks here and there and getting a gold set released.

As for peach. She doesn't NEED ANYTHING. She is perfectly fine the way she is. Present fair and all. The hackers have already stated that they are reverting fair back to the old version(Which really wont make a difference anyway but whatever) And offered us a trade off. I think it's commonly agreed on nair being the move we want buffed. Does she NEED it? No. But i mean if they going to give it to us why stop them?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Exactly, Philly, they are giving us an opportunity to make Peach even more fair, and even more balanced, and even more "perfectly fine". So, why not take it, mah boi?

 

[crazycrackers]

It's not about if we like it or not or being open minded. I don't think no one actually dislikes it when their char gets buffed. It's about rather if the char NEEDS it or not. I loved ivy's faster razor leaves and lucario's up b buff. But i understood why people complained about it and accepted it when it was changed. Lucario did not NEED that up b buff(im on the fence of ivy but whats done is done) The brawl+ project should be passed the "experimentation" part and be focused on little tweaks here and there and getting a gold set released.

As for peach. She doesn't NEED ANYTHING. She is perfectly fine the way she is. Present fair and all. The hackers have already stated that they are reverting fair back to the old version(Which really wont make a difference anyway but whatever) And offered us a trade off. I think it's commonly agreed on nair being the move we want buffed. Does she NEED it? No. But i mean if they going to give it to us why stop them?

QFT. So its decided on Nair then? And where would we go about getting this done?

 

[Meru.]

Excuse me? Who even uses upB when your not recovering? Most characters don't even use their upB for anything besides off stage play.

I still think Nair would be great, and way more influential than sideB. sideB is waaaaay less practical than Nair and when you play someone who doesn't overabuse rolls/spot dodges it becomes even less practical. Nair is just sweet. Nair pillars ftw

Side B is less practical than Nair because it's not so good. The only good thing about it is the range. Knockback? Awful. Damage? 15%, a Fair or combo or Dtilt > whatever does it much easier and better. Speed? ... No comment.

If it can kill 100% earlier, then it'll kill very early. See it as a sort of sweetspot, if you hit, you rock, if you miss, suffer the ending lag.

I like the Peach Bomber buff more. But, oh, well, I'd like the Nair one too. I just find the SideB buff better.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

The first thing we need to do, crazycrackers, is convince the nightly builds people to stop being such ***es. I'm defending both my hide and yours over there. I would appreciate some help.

 

[crazycrackers]

The first thing we need to do, crazycrackers, is convince the nightly builds people to stop being such ***es. I'm defending both my hide and yours over there. I would appreciate some help.

I'm there. And we are not the only ones who agreed on Nair. Slikvik (new member of WBR) was actually the first person who agreed on it

 

[SymphonicSage12]

ok then, thank you very much, savior of the day.

 

[crazycrackers]

XD Peach users stick together.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

you know, maybe we should nerf something else just to make them happy. One of her best moves is jab. Maybe we could slow the jab down as well as neutralizing fair? by slow down, I mean, like, maybe it could come out in 3 frames instead of 2, and have slightly more cooldown. just to balance out a more powerful nair? thoughts? discuss. And if Praxis was here, we'd have a lot more leverage. >.<

 

[crazycrackers]

That would defeat the purpose of her jab. The two frame activation is its trademark property. Also, we WERE offered a tradeoff for fair. We don't need to nerf anything else because thats what we were offered.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

crazy, the nair and bair would be intentical, then? what should be done about that?