Peach+ Get Pimpslapped!

Roxas215 · Apr 15, 2009

PEACH!!!

Peach+ An overview!!

Brawl+ Is the future! It was originally conceived as a way to make brawl a more tournament viable and competitive game. The MAIN change from vbrawl to brawl+ is the added hitstun. This single factor alone has buffed many chars into being tournament viable and peach is no exception. In vbrawl she was one of the few chars who had "legit combos" Most of them depending on dair to start it off. Brawl+ takes this aspect of her and just buffs it in so many ways.

Lets talk about how she differs from her vbrawl counterpart. Actually not much has changed. She feels faster but this is cause of the faster paced gravity. Not because of peach herself. With the added hitstun not only does she have many options out of dair but she has tons of tilt-grab to air options as well. Dthrow to jab to fthrow to nair is one of my fav combos. But don't get it twisted. Her game still relies heavily on her floating and dair. Also with the added hitstun true turnip combos are possible!

Noticble peach buffs includes her bomber(which is actually a kill move now) and she received a buffed dsmash(basically stole rob's lol) With the no auto sweetspot and her floating abilities her edgeguard game is way better then it was in vbrawl(which was good anyway)

Peach still has her problems landing a ko. Even with no stale moves she is not killing reliably until around the 130 mark. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though as peach can rack up the damage quickly. I have landed 40-70% combos easily(Especially against the heavies)

Alot of people ask about FC(Float Cancel) and if it's back. There's no need for FC since her aerials have little to no lag this time around...and I'm talking about Brawl. With Brawl+'s faster aerials it's even better!

Peach Changes
(As of the 7-10 beta)

Peach
-Peach Bomber 24 BKB, 79 KBG (slight readjustment)
-Peach dair last two hitboxes 120 to 80 growth
-Peach Downsmash 50 base from 38 and 7 damage from 5

Physics Changes:
Shorthop: 0.950
Fullhop: 1.050
Fastfall: 1.200
Downgravity: 1.175
UpGravity: 1.1

Advantages:

* Floating(Duh)
* One of the most combo oriented chars in the game
* Good Projectile with the chance of plucking beam sword,bombomb,stitch face,or Mr Saturn
* Great edgeguard ability
* No Stale moves(this really helps out peach)
* Above average recovery
* Crazy Rushdown and Shieldattack Game(Seriously if played right you will be breaking many a shield!)
* ***** Fox(Being that fox is arguably the best in the game this is a huge incentive for maining or even using peach as a secondary)

Disadvantages:

* Horrible UP B fall speed
* Recovery is easy to punish
* Her projectiles can be used against her
* Light and dies relatively early compared to the rest of the cast
* Horrible second jump height(although it does have it's uses)
* Hard to combo light weights at higher percentages

[/IMG]

Here's a list of her moves as well as pros and cons! Thanks Yaaay!!!

Yaaay said:
Nair
Pros
- Comes out really quickly.
- Zero lag when auto-cancelled.
- Hitbox lasts long.
- Amazing for edgeguarding.
- Good kill move, especially when edgeguarding.
- Good combo move
- Pillaring is fun and effective.
- Very hard to punish when auto-cancelled well.
- Great-GTFO-me move
- Can eat shields

Cons
- Small hitbox.

Fair
Pros
- Great kill move, her most reliable one, especially since it doesnt stale anymore!
- Very little to no lag when auto-cancelled
- Nice hitbox.
- Okay for edgeguarding.

Cons
- Slow start-up.

Bair
Pros
- Comes out quickly.
- Zero lag when auto cancelled.
- Nice hitbox too.
- Great for edgeguarding.
- Good combo move.
- Has a strong and weak hitbox: the strong one can be used for killing and edgeguarding, the weak one for combo's (Bair > Ftilt is an example)
- Great fot spacing.
- Very hard to punish, especially when auto-cancelled well.

Cons
I cant think of any. If you can, tell.

Uair
Pros
- Good hitstun
- Excellent for juggling and comboing.
- Pretty quick
- Can kill well if you're close to the upper ceiling.

Cons
- Awful edgeguarding move.
- It's pretty bad when close to the ground or when floating close the the ground, especially compared to her other aerials.

Dair
Pros
- Fast and lasts long
- Too good for combo's
- Too good combo starter]
- Very hard to punish
- Good GTFO move
- Wrecks shields

Cons
- ... You cant kill with it? Though that's not really a con, since it isn't meant for killing.
- Can be SDI'ed at certain %.

Ftilt
Pros
- Good range
- Three different hitboxes for three different purposes:
* The close sweetspot hitbox: This one kills vertically well. 13%
* The distant hitbox: Doesn't kill very well, but good for combos. 10%
* The late hitbox: Doesn't kill at all, but awesome for combos. 6%
- Fast start-up (I think 6 frames)
- Good hitstun
- Can repeatedly combo into itself

Cons
- Start-up is good, the ending lag isn't. You can get punished badly.
- Pretty annoying if you get the wrong hitbox.

Examples of combos
- Ftilt repeatedly
- Ftilt (repeatedly) > Utilt
- Ftilt (repeatedly) > Usmash
- Ftilt (repeatedly) > Uair > Uair ....
- Ftilt (repeatedly) > Nair/Bair/Fair
- Ftilt (repeatedly) > Dair ...
- Dthrow > Ftilt (repeatedly) > ...
- Dsmash > Ftilt (repeatedly) > ...
- Bair > Ftilt (repeatedly) > ...
- Uthrow > Ftilt (repeatedly) > ... [ only at very low %'s] [ only vs. heavy or fastfallers ]
- Dtilt > Ftilt (repeatedly) > ...
- Frying Pan > Ftilt (repeatedly) > ...

Dtilt
Pros
- Great range
- Great for combos
- Incredible hitstun
- Good for edgeguarding
- Can spike (but don't count it, happens very rarely)
- Can slide

Cons
- A bit slow
- Slide can also be at your disadvantage if you want to combo

Examples of combos
- Dtilt > Any aerial [ Seriously, the hitstun is really great ]
- Dtilt > Dtilt (> Dtilt) > Ftilt (repeatedly) > ...
- To keep a long story short:
* At low %'s (approx. 50-) Dtilt can combo into almost anything.
* At higher %'s Dtilt still can easily combo into an aerial.
* If the % gets too high, try an Uair or a turnip or just bait them or something.

Utilt
Pros
- Hitbox is insane!
- Good hitstun (again)
- Can kill at higher %
- Pretty quick
- Beats every Dair and almost everything else
- Good combo finisher

Cons
- Utilt has only one purpose: hitting someone who is up you. And well, it fulfills his task well, so no cons for this one. (Though you might say that a con of Utilt is that it has only one purpose)

Examples of Combos
- Dtilt > Utilt [ Keep in mind that Dtilt can slide ]
- Dtiltslide > Utilt [ ... If you don't mind the slide, Utilt is a great option, it has a long slide ]
- Ftilt (repeatedly) > Utilt
- Dthrow > Utilt
- Uthrow > Utilt [ Very low %'s only ] [ Only works on certain characters ]
- Frying Pan > Utilt
- Usmash > Utilt [ Very low %'s only ]

Yaaay said:
^
Awesome, that's great! Keep it up ;d

I feel like discussing her moves again. I've already done these:
(feel free to correct or discuss or whatever)

Let's talk about her smashes

Fsmash
Pros
- Unpredictable.
- Can kill well overall.
- Wall of very high priority.
- Can be used defensively, as well as agressively (though it's better defensively)
- Tennis Racket's sweetspot is very powerful.
- Golf Club has great range, while still being powerful.
- Pan can kill decently, but it can also combo at lower %'s and it deals a good amount of damage.

Cons
- Unpredictability can also work in your disadvantage (not a big problem though, don't worry about ;p)
- Tennis Racket sucks if it isn't sweetspotted.
- Pan has poor range.
- A bit slow, making it harder to use agressively.

Examples of combos
- Pan > Any aerial.
- Pan > Ftilt
- Pan > Utilt

It is somewhat hard to combo with it though, since it's unpredictable.

Usmash
Pros
- Very strong when sweetspotted.
- Good combo potential when sourspotted.

Cons
- Good luck sweetspotting it.
- Slower than it looks (hits on frame 14).

Dsmash
Pros
- Quick.
- Good and long-lasting hitbox around her.
- Deals some good damage.
- Great shield-poker.
- Good for stagespiking.

Cons
- Damage isn't so good when you only hit once.

Discuss :D

Problem2 · Apr 15, 2009

I like the new princess. her throws usually lead to float related juggles in my experience. Her faster falling speed gives her more vertical control now too which I like. Also, with the lack of of sweet spotting, she can usually hover just over the ledge to d-air people coming back on stage. I don't think she's better or worse, just diferent.

HeKn_402 · Apr 15, 2009

Problem2 said:
I like the new princess. her throws usually lead to float related juggles in my experience. Her faster falling speed gives her more vertical control now too which I like. Also, with the lack of of sweet spotting, she can usually hover just over the ledge to d-air people coming back on stage. I don't think she's better or worse, just diferent.

I totally agree with what your saying i was a pretty mean peach in brawl, as well as melee and Brawl+ just improves on that. I can actually do a combo with turnips in Brawl+, Awsome and hilarious!

PaintedGhost · Apr 15, 2009

I've noticed that, at certain percents, you can footstool out of a dthrow. Haven't really looked into it much though, just thought I'd bring it up. Another thing that's pretty cool is you can cancel the beginning dash frames with a shield and then shield grab. I'm fairly sure you couldn't do that in vBrawl, correct me if I’m wrong.

Morrigan · Apr 15, 2009

Her UpB's falling speed should be relative to the modified gravity Brawl+ has.

Airgemini · Apr 15, 2009

Is there anyway to get her old Dsmash and Fthrow back?

In this video, Jigglypuff's Melee Rest is there. Couldnt we do the same for her Dsmash, etc?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTNy5k1uMWE&feature=channel_page

Morrigan · Apr 15, 2009

Her Dsmash was improved in B+ since it's faster than Brawl's. It actually has more chances to suck them in and connect the 4 hits.

Revven · Apr 15, 2009

These threads are also specifically not for character buffs/nerfs discussion.

Just a reminder.

Airgemini · Apr 15, 2009

No it says that you cant ask for buffs/nerfs. I'm not asking about buffs, Im asking about changing the move.

Anyways, what I meant Dekuu was could we give it its old knockback?

Almas · Apr 15, 2009

Such a change would invariably be a buff though. Asking for a Downsmash that has very similar knockback (often drags you in), but 10% more damage per hit, or changing her Fthrow from one which is more or less only usable for damage/as a spacing tool into one that can kill are both hard to view in any way other than a buff. Such changes are possible, though.

I'm a Peach main in Melee, but I really can't get into her in Brawl+. I guess she just doesn't feel the same to me - but I can see from when I do try her that she's got a lot of combo potential. Her DAir has a very good trajectory at lower %s, and if the opponent messes up or has slow aerials you can sometimes sneak one in after a DThrow or similar.

I'd love to see some good peach videos.

MarcBuckley · Apr 15, 2009

"Peach is bottom tier in Brawl +. There is no difference in her character but everyone else gets buffed by being able to L cancel. She can already cancel lag on all her aerials and she can already 'wavedash' so it just makes her cruddy." Edrees

edrees you disappoint me sir

low tier peach = more satisfying *** kicking

PaintedGhost · Apr 15, 2009

MarcBuckley said:
"Peach is bottom tier in Brawl +. There is no difference in her character but everyone else gets buffed by being able to L cancel. She can already cancel lag on all her aerials and she can already 'wavedash' so it just makes her cruddy." Edrees

edrees you disappoint me sir
low tier peach = more satisfying *** kicking

That was old, and he was using an older version of Brawl+ with wavedashing and such.

Airgemini · Apr 15, 2009

Well I was just wondering about it Almas :<
I just want to see some videos of her really.

Roxas215 · Apr 15, 2009

MarcBuckley said:
"Peach is bottom tier in Brawl +. There is no difference in her character but everyone else gets buffed by being able to L cancel. She can already cancel lag on all her aerials and she can already 'wavedash' so it just makes her cruddy." Edrees

edrees you disappoint me sir
low tier peach = more satisfying *** kicking

He was playing a very old version of brawl+ back when wavedashing was in.

Almas said:
I'd love to see some good peach videos.

airgemini said:
I just want to see some videos of her really.

Here are some videos of my peach. There fairly old(about a month) And is using the 3.3 codeset. My peach is ALOT better now but these videos should at least give some thoughts about her crazy rushdown and shieldattack game. O an look at that 3 stock comeback. TWICE!!!!!

Peach Vs R.O.B(Tusm)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9nbUpUkYTY
Peach Vs Dedede(Tusm)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T35SnQ2iJ1U

Morrigan · Apr 15, 2009

MarcBuckley said:
"Peach is bottom tier in Brawl +. There is no difference in her character but everyone else gets buffed by being able to L cancel. She can already cancel lag on all her aerials and she can already 'wavedash' so it just makes her cruddy." Edrees

edrees you disappoint me sir
low tier peach = more satisfying *** kicking

That's incredibly out of context.

What I said earlier should have top priority IMO... the falling speed of her closed umbrella sucks.

Airgemini · Apr 15, 2009

By the way, in a non buff/nerf way, does FCing exist in Brawl+?

MarcBuckley · Apr 15, 2009

Dekuu said:
That's incredibly out of context.

What I said earlier should have top priority IMO... the falling speed of her closed umbrella sucks.

lol not my fault people like to target ignorance rather than focus on matters that make sense

that set aside anyone have the code list i need for brawl +

Meru. · Apr 16, 2009

airgemini said:
By the way, in a non buff/nerf way, does FCing exist in Brawl+?

I;ve never actually played Melee so well ( I don't own it, but have played it... twice or something

), so I don't really know about Float cancel. But I do know her aerials have very very little lag when canceled (NAIR!).

Nair is too awesome. And so is Dtilt, because of the hitstun.

MarcBuckley · Apr 17, 2009

no go on the codes -.-?

Roxas215 · Apr 18, 2009

Updated the 1st post!

PikminEater · Apr 18, 2009

airgemini said:
By the way, in a non buff/nerf way, does FCing exist in Brawl+?

FCing Melee style has not been brought back in Brawl+. I don't think there have been any Peach specific buffs and from the way things sound, there aren't going to be.

The only "Float Cancel" that exists is the one discovered in vBrawl and has nothing to do with reducing lag (as it did in Melee). Its just when Peach hits with Bair or Nair while floating, you drop the float, and the move will hit twice resulting in double the damage.

Morrigan · Apr 18, 2009

There's no need for FC since her aerials have little to no lag this time around...and I'm talking about Brawl. With Brawl+'s faster aerials it's even better.

Roxas215 · Apr 18, 2009

Dekuu said:
There's no need for FC since her aerials have little to no lag this time around...and I'm talking about Brawl. With Brawl+'s faster aerials it's even better.

This. I'll actually add this to the OP. I was thinking the same thing.

crazycrackers · Apr 20, 2009

I've basically decided that Peach owns in Brawl+. Her shield pressure and combos are just ridiculous. I'll have to write up more about it later but Peach can do combos for like 80% SOLID XD. Plus her aerials are just unpunishable COMPLETELY now on shield...she can edgeguard better than before. Basically all the changes from Brawl to Brawl+ physics-wise helped her. :D And moves don't get stale now? I mean thats just great. Helps her killing problems a lot (they're still there though on some characters). I'd say Peach is definately high tier material.

Airgemini · Apr 21, 2009

What's her second jump like in Brawl+?

Meru. · Apr 21, 2009

Same. Crappy height, but I still has his other uses from Brawl (spacing, evading etc).

I want Melee Jump back ;l. This will also let her combo even better.

Roxas215 · Apr 21, 2009

Her 2nd jump is the same height as vbrawl. But it has it uses like the above post said. Most people expect me to sh into float then dair. Sometimes for spacing i will use her 2nd jump then go right to dair without floating. I also play a samus player alot and i use her 2nd jump to avoid missiles rather then air dodge and because it's so short i can go right into a aerial afterwards.

Roxas215 · Apr 24, 2009

Sry for not updating the 1st post. This week was pretty hectic with finals and this weekend im going out and going to a brawl+ tournament on sun. Expect tournament videos with peach and a major overhaul on the 1st post come mon(maybe tues. lol)

Meru. · Apr 24, 2009

I just wanted to say that Peach's combos are really crazy now. REALLY crazy. I'll add more about this later on (maybe ;p)

Clever_Sleazoid · Apr 24, 2009

Peach is a ****ing monster in Brawl+. She really doesn't have a hard time killing like so many claim, all you have to do is combo into fair. Her fair can be compared to Falcon's knee, in the same way where it's Falcon's only excellent kill move, and same for Peach. The trick is just comboing into it, which isn't all that hard.

I'm trying to pick her up because she's actually fun as hell.

Metatitan · Apr 24, 2009

her nair is a good killing move, idk why u think she has difficulty killing

Meru. · Apr 25, 2009

Well, relatively, she does have a hard time killing, but people just like to exaggerate. Besides, she has other things to make up for it (Gimping, edgeguarding, INSANE combo's o.o etc).

Oh, and Nair is just too awesome in too many ways.

Airgemini · Apr 25, 2009

Oh I've been meaning to ask about Turnips in Brawl+..
With more hitstun, I'd imagine a lot more combos like Melee.
Are the stitchfaces more deadly?

Morrigan · Apr 25, 2009

airgemini said:
Oh I've been meaning to ask about Turnips in Brawl+..
With more hitstun, I'd imagine a lot more combos like Melee.
Are the stitchfaces more deadly?

Why don't you try it for yourself?

It's sexy

Roxas215 · Apr 25, 2009

Speaking about peach's killing problems. While it's not as bad as it was in vbrawl to say she don't have problems landing a ko is very misleading. Peach still doesn't reliably kill until around the 120-140 mark. In a fast paced game like brawl+ where chars such as fox falcon marth(all who are very hard matchups for peach. Especially marth. We'll be getting into matchups later) and others are killing around the 70-80% mark this is a problem for peach. But being the combo monster that peach is getting your opponent to kill percentage isn't THAT hard to do. A peach that can read di can do 50-60% combos right from the gate. Also add that she has a CRAZY shieldattack,edgeguard,and gimp game. All this counteracts her ko problems.

And yes peach has plenty options when it comes to turnip combos! Like i said im going to a brawl+ tournament on sun and will be doing LOTS of friendlies as well as tournament matches which i will save all of them(god bless the creator of the inf replay code) So i will upload some good peach vids!

And yes nair is just too awesome for words!

Clever_Sleazoid · Apr 25, 2009

Phillyrider807 said:
Speaking about peach's killing problems. While it's not as bad as it was in vbrawl to say she don't have problems landing a ko is very misleading. Peach still doesn't reliably kill until around the 120-140 mark. In a fast paced game like brawl+ where chars such as fox falcon marth(all who are very hard matchups for peach. Especially marth. We'll be getting into matchups later) and others are killing around the 70-80% mark this is a problem for peach. But being the combo monster that peach is getting your opponent to kill percentage isn't THAT hard to do. A peach that can read di can do 50-60% combos right from the gate. Also add that she has a CRAZY shieldattack,edgeguard,and gimp game. All this counteracts her ko problems.

And yes peach has plenty options when it comes to turnip combos! Like i said im going to a brawl+ tournament on sun and will be doing LOTS of friendlies as well as tournament matches which i will save all of them(god bless the creator of the inf replay code) So i will upload some good peach vids!

And yes nair is just too awesome for words!

Where do you live!? I assume it's not California D:

Will await the Peach videos so I can learn how to use her.

Airgemini · Apr 25, 2009

I keep hearing about her awesome combo ability, but what exactly makes her sooooo 'godly' with combos in Brawl+?

Roxas215 · Apr 25, 2009

Clever_Sleazoid said:
Where do you live!? I assume it's not California D:

Will await the Peach videos so I can learn how to use her.

I live in philly. Most of all the philly locals love brawl+ Philly is having the 1st national brawl+ tournament on may 16th.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227163

Also while these vids are from a older codeset it still shows her combo potential. Plus i did 3 stock comebacks. Twice!!! lol
Peach vs ROB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9nbUpUkYTY

Peach vs Dedede
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T35SnQ2iJ1U

airgemini said:
I keep hearing about her awesome combo ability, but what exactly makes her sooooo 'godly' with combos in Brawl+?

1 move. Dair!!!!! Dair was the staple of all her combos in vbrawl and even more so with brawl+ Now with hitstun she has even more options out of dair. Plus she has tons of tilt to grab options.. One of my fav combos is jab dthrow dair utilt. Peach can get you from 0-60 in about 5 secs. There are chars with better combo game(fox shiek and lucario comes to mind) But peach's combos are GREAT in brawl+

Metatitan · Apr 25, 2009

aside from jigglypuff and mabey mk, peach probly has the best airgame in b+

Clever_Sleazoid · Apr 25, 2009

My main peach problem is that I can't utilize her glide right. I can use it, I just rarely get a full dair of from it, or sometimes I use it too early or late and end up too high or to low (and get smacked). But I just this is my first time actively using Peach in ANY Smash game, and I only picked her up 3 days ago so it's expected. Can't wait till i get good and actually pull off the double gliding dairs to etc.

One of my favorite things in general with her is to throw a turnip up, try to grab the opponent, pummel them until I can throw them into the falling turnip, and if they are close enough afterward hit them again with a fair or nair or dash.

Peach+ Get Pimpslapped!

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