PAL (Aus) Melee Tier List

[xXArrowXx]

no mistakes falco vs no mistakes marth... marth would win... -.- he has more range. so its easier to iniatlize a juggle..
powershield lasers -.- space with fair and finish the predictable recoveries with fsmash tippah. but yeah no ones that good.

marth > falco and fox. by abit.

so the point of this list is who is the best character by its abilities/ potential combos not by the players reading skill... ide still say marth.

people seem to be like, not marth if you try alot harder with fox and falco you will be better, but then i say if you try harder with marth you will be better.

 

[Redact]

The top players in america believe the matchup to be in focks favour vs marth at high level play same with falco

give me proof of this if you claim it

they beleive the matchups to be even in america, if you dont beleive me, check out the matchup chart made up to even late 2009, lots of well known American players have contributed and agree with that list

fox has been amazingly nerfed compared to marth, especially vs marth, and youre going to try claim that the matchups are even?

i think not so

also S.D, i think you over-rate the ability falco has to control space over marth, and especially the ease of the combos, A LOT of falco's combos become near impossible after 40% if your opponent knows how to SDI correctly, it becomes a guessing game after that point


also tier lists arent about the top potential, or else fox would be broken beyond belief tier in every list ever made (jc shine anyone?)

tier lists are about the peak of the current meta-game, not TAS players

 

[CAOTIC]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=266858

 

[stelzig]

no mistakes falco vs no mistakes marth... marth would win... -.- he has more range. so its easier to iniatlize a juggle..
powershield lasers -.- space with fair and finish the predictable recoveries with fsmash tippah. but yeah no ones that good.

If it's a no mistake falco then fsmash to edgeguard might not be a good idea since he'll sweetspot the edge. Or at least tech it... Falco could also powershield lasers back. /super theory brothers.

*stalked recent turtle posts*

 

[TakFR]

Sup Stelzig, didn't expect to see you here =)

Why has the matchup discussion turned into "If played perfectly this character would beat this one" >_>

 

[ComboTurtle]

If it's a no mistake falco then fsmash to edgeguard might not be a good idea since he'll sweetspot the edge. Or at least tech it... Falco could also powershield lasers back. /super theory brothers.

*stalked recent turtle posts*

sup homes? should drop by on australia more often imo

also how come we're not good like zgetto?

 

[xXArrowXx]

then marth power shields back.. or techs whateva he wants to =P got more options anyway.
perfect vs perfect is failure of a point anyway =P

needs more tourny results?? and match up dicussion

 

[Aussierob123]

This is not even a discussion of tier list, you guys are discussing matchup's.

Tier lists are based on tournament placings with characters. as far as australia goes, peach and marth are top tier and falco and maybe shiek are close behind. Barely anybody uses fox in later stages of the tournament except for maybe bringer.

If it's a PAL tier list being discussed then it should be discussed in that topic cao linked.

 

[Sieg]

What ever happened to when tier lists were about which character was the best in optimal conditions.

 

[Dekar289]

lars come to robocop

 

[xXArrowXx]

tier lists can mean different things..
ide rather a tier list on the potential rather than boring tourny results
could use tourny results to help tho. they seem to be highly metagame based tho and about matchups and playstyles.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

PAL tier list based on PAL metagame.. which is the world PAL not just Aus PAL.. alot of people seem to be forgetting this, and also basing alot of there opinions on U.S matchups. Tourney results help, but should be used as a last reference.

 

[Redact]

What ever happened to when tier lists were about which character was the best in optimal conditions.

thats called the fox list

 

[Pantsmann]

for once i actually agree with zac here, why are so many people going on about PAL in general or USA stuff when this is the AUSTRALIA tier list???

 

[Aussierob123]

nah syke was saying that this is a PAL list and not a PAL AUS list, i.e. PAL everywhere, in which case this thread is void because australia probably contributes all of 3% to the PAL metagame. lol. Just putting that out there.

But yeah if it's PAL regional, then it should be discussed in the thread cao linked, but if its an AUS tier list for fun then i don't see the harm in discussing it and making our own.

 

[Sirias]

Uuugh... So much to read.
Can't remember all of it.

All I can say, though, in my opinion...
Is that Falco is better than Marth/Fox.
Fox 'can' chain-grab or shine spike, and both 'can' combo each other easily, but honestly, I still feel Falco is better.
Marth can **** Falco quite hard, but Falco can definately **** back, Marth only has a large advantage on FD.
I have no idea where to place them all

Also Jigglypuff shouldn't be top tier.
No one uses her well.
ONLY Mango and Hungrybox and that's NTSC.
And they're lame.

Also, Zac.
Stop gloating about how you can beat me in friendlies.
It's so tiring.

 

[Sieg]

Also Jigglypuff shouldn't be top tier.
No one uses her well.
ONLY Mango and Hungrybox and that's NTSC.
And they're lame.

That's what I said but they still think she's top tier lol.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

She's had no major changes not PAL, we all did a matchup chart and was the clear winner.

 

[Dekar289]

not to mention that puff's matchups are pretty much ALL easier in PAL

 

[Sirias]

I know she's GOOD etc, but I'M saying no one in PAL uses her, so why have a top tier on top tier that no one can use?
Seems pointless since we can't even back it up.
I don't know any Europeans that use her, maybe there are some, but I don't know them, so they probably aren't well known because they're not any good?

I'm pretty sure all the top players (PAL region) could take out any Jiggly in PAL.

Although that's still not saying that she's not a good character if played well.
Just, again, why have a top tier no one even uses?

 

[Dekar289]

that no one can use?
i'm pretty sure a lot of people CAN use puff easily
besides it doesn't matter how many people use her at all

her only bad matchup is marth
she eats space animals, they just have no chance
etc
she's top

 

[Redact]

I know she's GOOD etc, but I'M saying no one in PAL uses her, so why have a top tier on top tier that no one can use?
Seems pointless since we can't even back it up.
I don't know any Europeans that use her, maybe there are some, but I don't know them, so they probably aren't well known because they're not any good?

I'm pretty sure all the top players (PAL region) could take out any Jiggly in PAL.

Although that's still not saying that she's not a good character if played well.
Just, again, why have a top tier no one even uses?

people in pal use falco, but he isnt dominating either, whos winning in europe? armada and amsah

whos winning here? cao and you

tier lists are either based on one thing or another

A: peak of the current metagame or,

B: peak of the potential metagame

if we take the current metagame, the tier list would have peach as number 1 by far, armada dominating europe and cao winning almost every tournament here

if we take the potential metagame, fox is the top of it, with jc shines and next to inhuman ****

falcos are being dominated in europe, apart from a select few, their overall performance is not top of top tier level

either way, if youre going to say no one uses jiggs in pal, wheres the falcos that are winning?

 

[S.D]

people in pal use falco, but he isnt dominating either, whos winning in europe? armada and amsah

whos winning here? cao and you

tier lists are either based on one thing or another

A: peak of the current metagame or,

B: peak of the potential metagame

if we take the current metagame, the tier list would have peach as number 1 by far, armada dominating europe and cao winning almost every tournament here

if we take the potential metagame, fox is the top of it, with jc shines and next to inhuman ****

falcos are being dominated in europe, apart from a select few, their overall performance is not top of top tier level

either way, if youre going to say no one uses jiggs in pal, wheres the falcos that are winning?

Calle W is top 3 in Europe as a Falco main and competes strongly with Armada. If you look to The UK you have Fuzzyness winning everything with both Falco and Puff. Even here my Falco wins in NSW and unreon is a strong competitor. Ryan's Falco also gets results.

As far as Peach goes she tends to stand out as an anomaly - generally it's only one exceptional player making her look outstanding - Cao and Armada - aside from them I don't see any Peaches doing particularly well.

While there aren't as many Puff players in the PAL region, her dominance as a character is underlined by the fact there are droves of NTSC Puffs winning tournaments despite the rest of the cast having stronger matchups with her. A lack of representation doesn't diminish the inherent strength of the character.

 

[Sieg]

Ryan doesn't play anymore.

Least I haven't even seen him since Rocky.

I'm surprised he even came to Rocky imo.

 

[Redact]

Calle W is top 3 in Europe as a Falco main and competes strongly with Armada. If you look to The UK you have Fuzzyness winning everything with both Falco and Puff. Even here my Falco wins in NSW and unreon is a strong competitor. Ryan's Falco also gets results.

As far as Peach goes she tends to stand out as an anomaly - generally it's only one exceptional player making her look outstanding - Cao and Armada - aside from them I don't see any Peaches doing particularly well.

While there aren't as many Puff players in the PAL region, her dominance as a character is underlined by the fact there are droves of NTSC Puffs winning tournaments despite the rest of the cast having stronger matchups with her. A lack of representation doesn't diminish the inherent strength of the character.

callew still does not win the majors, you dont win the majors, and the falcos in america dont win, the only place youve stated where they win is uk
having strong placements doesnt make them top of top tier as kas says, its winning that makes them top of top

if were going to go by results, falco doesnt win

if were going by theoretical potential, falco doesnt win

im not saying hes bad, oh no, hes among the top, but he isnt top of top

 

[S.D]

callew still does not win the majors, you dont win the majors, and the falcos in america dont win, the only place youve stated where they win is uk
having strong placements doesnt make them top of top tier as kas says, its winning that makes them top of top

if were going to go by results, falco doesnt win

if were going by theoretical potential, falco doesnt win

im not saying hes bad, oh no, hes among the top, but he isnt top of top

Falco's in America don't win? Are you joking?

The USA is saturated with Falco's currently, like every man and his dog plays Falco.

Mango is as much a Falco main as Puff these days and he is winning everything.

Stack that up with regional winners like Shiz, Zhu, Chops, DEHF, Blunted Object, Dr. Peepee, etc and you've got yourself a pretty dominant character.

Calle is consistently coming second to, guess who, armada, and I think we can forgive him for that. The Falco's worldwide are winning as much if not more consistently than other characters, and dw I'll win Thriller with Falco or something to prove my point.. maybe XD

I agree not top of top, but **** close.

 

[Dekar289]

stuff regionals

mango always wins the majors and he is a puff main not falco (who always comes 2nd? hbox)
he goes falco to have fun and show off, if he loses the first match or is trying srsly hard he plays puff

and the reason he does win with falco is because he's mango
not because he's playing falco

maybe i'll come to thriller
you wouldn't pick a spacey vs me would you.

btw remember m2k vs shiz from rom? perfect example of a marth exploiting falco

 

[S.D]

stuff regionals

mango always wins the majors and he is a puff main not falco (who always comes 2nd? hbox)
he goes falco to have fun and show off, if he loses the first match or is trying srsly hard he plays puff

and the reason he does win with falco is because he's mango
not because he's playing falco

maybe i'll come to thriller
you wouldn't pick a spacey vs me would you.

btw remember m2k vs shiz from rom? perfect example of a marth exploiting falco

Exactly - exploited because Shiz was stupid and went to the ledge, the only times M2K got the upper hand was when Shiz was dumb. You might recall the **** that preceded those 2 final gimps where Shiz wrecked him everywhere.

Remember Zhu happy feeting all over M2K's Marth at Genesis?

Or Mango romping his Marth in Norcal?

Falco vs Marth Kgo Have fun in losers bracket <3

 

[Aussierob123]

lol NTSC falcos **** face all over marth mains besides m2k's, infact on that topic there's all of about 1 good marth mains in america... and that's M2k. the rest is dominated by falco's, foxes, a few jiggs and a few falcons and sheiks.

don't even bother discussing mango's mains because he's mango, he wins with any character. And aside from that he plays NTSC! we're talking about PAL.

In AUS there are plenty of high level falco players, ryan, sloth, unreon, S.D. jigg's players are pretty much dekar and Scrubs, but scrubs mainly uses peach and i dunno about dekar.

and yeah CalleW is pretty much one of the top european smashers, and his falco *****, and is so close behind armada. the fact he doesnt beat armada doesnt account for much.

Aus' player base is too small to contribute much to the PAL tier list, it'd be mostly based off europe, which has a hella large amount of sheiks and falcos, a few foxes and marths and an insane peach. It doesn't say much, but like, look at the italian players, their grand finals are falco dittos lol.

 

[Dekar289]

whats the point of our argument again i forgot

anyway here's some handy facts
marth beats falco
puff is most broken, best character in game

 

[Aussierob123]

yeah idk my argument sorta turned into random facts about falco, suggesting that falco should be very high on the PAL tier list. Infact i didn't even really have an argument while i was typing it.

 

[TakFR]

Take the NTSC Falco talk to the melee thread, it has NOTHING to do with this PAL tier list

 

[Dekar289]

yeah it does
the only difference is that the spike lasts half as long

 

[Surgi]

the second half of the spike is not even used in combos anyway so it doesnt make much difference. Falco is godly, puff is godly, peach marth fox sheik and falcon are all broken beyond repair
ganon is good so is doc
everyone else sucks ^^ try form a tier list from that ^

Edit: K according to rob falcon is down with ganon and doc now kk make tier list now kthx

 

[Aussierob123]

Ew surgi, take falcon off that list of brokenness. He sucks.

 

[S.D]

whats the point of our argument again i forgot

anyway here's some handy facts
marth beats falco
puff is most broken, best character in game

Marth beats Falco... just like when you beat Ryan's Falco at Rocky - oh wait...

 

[Sieg]

Can see there's some real serious Technical discussion going on here lol.

 

[tibs7]

I think where Dekar's Martha *****
falco arguement stems from is that Marf potentially only needs one grab on falco which can easily come from
a missed shine, l cancel or whatever else there is.

Is this close Dekar!

 

[Dekar289]

let's not get personal sd, that was one match and everyone knows i choked hard
and i wasn't the only one to choke at rocky

anyway i think most people would agree that marth has the advantage vs falco

yeh tibs you're kinda right lol

 

[S.D]

let's not get personal sd, that was one match and everyone knows i choked hard
and i wasn't the only one to choke at rocky

anyway i think most people would agree that marth has the advantage vs falco

yeh tibs you're kinda right lol

Nah you know I love you champ, u sorta got unlucky anyway 2 stock lead etc.

It seems like you're saying Marth wins because it's easier for him to get away with errors and punish those on the behalf of Falco, which is true, however when Falco isn't making mistakes or doing anything stupid, he is generally ****** pretty hard. I don't base a MU on the frequency of punishable mistakes, if the player is good enough you can't rely on that alone.

Most "experts" put it at even, few would say either character has a clear advantage.