PAL (Aus) Melee Tier List

[ComboTurtle]

Falco
Jiggs
Fox
Shiek
Peach
Marth
Falcon

 

[Redact]

Falco
Jiggs
Fox
Shiek
Peach
Marth
Falcon

yea-wait what

 

[ComboTurtle]

maybe swap peach with sheik. It may not be anywhere near what australian tourney results are showing but to the furthest extent of human play i believe that list to be close to correct others may disagree =)

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

furthest extent of human play

and you didn't put fox on top?

 

[ComboTurtle]

and you didn't put fox on top?

nope falco is easier to play at a near perfection of his metagame than fox. The only reason marth places well in aus tournaments is that we're not near the edge of the metagame and he is a character that is easier to play near the edge of his metgame thats why we havent really seen any marths other than m2k do well lately even though he is a better char in ntsc

 

[ComboTurtle]

human play does not = robot or tas play

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

Fox has it way easier over falco brah, just compare matchups with peach/marth/falcon/jiggs between the 2.

 

[xXArrowXx]

buuut marth is broken.. its just spacing and broken moves, pretty good combobility and can screw up alot of top tier characters.
the further away u are when you hit them the more damage and knockback it does (omg how broken!!@!!@)

stpid question.,.. so this is based on tourn results??
cause peach shouldn't be 2 high, its just that cao is so good with him.. and armarda =P??

 

[ComboTurtle]

Fox has it way easier over falco brah, just compare matchups with peach/marth/falcon/jiggs between the 2.

falco wins all those matchups except vs jiggs where he can still do well and although fox wins the matchup with jiggs apparently he doesnt have his brutal kill move on her in pal which makes the matchup alot more difficult. Furthermore alot are leaning the falco fox matchup in falcos favour in recent times

 

[CAOTIC]

If anyone here is even remotely serious about contributing to a PAL Tier List to the fullest, they need to be notifying me by PM so I can allow 1/2 Smashers to join the official revision of the PAL Tier list. Votes will be proportioned and represented by: The Netherlands, Austria, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden, UK, Norway, Finland, Australia and possibly others.

With this announcement, this thread is going to be redundant.

 

[undead_moose]

If roy isnt at least high tier. I have lost faith in Netherlands Austria France Germany Italy Spain UK Norway Finland.... I know australia wont let me down

 

[Aussierob123]

is this supposed to be a "pal" teir list or an AUS tier list? becuase if that's the case there isn't a great deal to decide between besides who's better out of Marth Falco and peach, seeing as those are the characters that keep making it to the finals most of the time. With the exception of a few fox, sheik, falcon and jiggs mains.

Another thing to consider is that we all suck in aus and don't represent our characters very well, some players will win no matter what character they use most of the time (like kas in a local tourney).

Having said that, my falcon is ****ing hot, and just because of me falcon should be top teir.

**** ryan's falcon.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

We shall make many a list, The Manly List, The Gayboy list, The Gimp List, The Roy List....

Until then:

TOP:
Jigglypuff
Fox
Marth
Shiek
Falco
Peach

HIGH:
C.Falcon
Samus
Ice Climbers
D.Mario
Ganondorf

MIDDLE:
Mario
Luigi
Pikachu
Link
Yoshi
Roy
D.K
Y.Link

LOW:
Game and Watch
Zelda
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

get with it yo.

 

[undead_moose]

in all seriousness i think Roy should be higher in middle if not top of middle.

Im not joking he is so underused

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

His attacks are to slow and easily cc'd, plus he's heavy as *** and gets combo'd heavily. Terrible recovery as well.

 

[Dekar289]

in all srsness i think luigi should be above mario

 

[TakFR]

Yoshi should be higher then Mario as well, Samus is too high should definatly be lower then IC's and Doc. Jiggs shouldn't be top of top but definatly in the top 3

Top should be: Marth, Fox, Jiggs, Shiek, Falco, Peach

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

thats just my list, the real PAL list hasnt been voted on yet.. but most likely jiggs will be top tier.

why underrate samus so much?

 

[TakFR]

Never seen a good Samus user I guess =/

 

[Sieg]

Tristan, Accelerate, Gloth, Not me.

That's only Australia.

You've got people like Dyna, Oro, Wes, Hugs and a couple of people I can't remember at the moment who were all amazing with Samus.

 

[Dekar289]

yeah samus is not bad

looks like i was right with puff

come one guys peach up there too kk

 

[xXArrowXx]

samus is good.. jiggly puff =P marth ***** that balloon....

 

[Dekar289]

yeh but puff ***** everyone else
spacies dont stand a chance especially

thing is, marth doesnt have any bad matchups

hence imo:

marth 1
puff 2

 

[TakFR]

Fox vs Jiggs isn't that good of a matchup for Jiggs though (If you're not a spastic and can DI, aka not me)

 

[Redact]

Fox vs Jiggs isn't that good of a matchup for Jiggs though (If you're not a spastic and can DI, aka not me)

i'd actually say its even myself, but its also very stage dependant

 

[S.D]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58o92oz3v9w

The problem with Fox vs Puff is while its theoretically even, fox simply cannot err at all or you get this. Poor Zhu, he played so well

 

[ComboTurtle]

yeh but puff ***** everyone else
spacies dont stand a chance especially

thing is, marth doesnt have any bad matchups

hence imo:

marth 1
puff 2

you guys are dumb, marth doesnt **** jiggs is good vs marth thats why m2k plays fox vs it also marth is on the like slight losing end to fox shiek and falco and can have it tough vs falcon marth is definitely not no.1 on a pal tier list.

fox falco peach puff dominate

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

marth is even if not a slight advantage with fox, also a larger advantage over falco. I'm yet to see anything to prove that falco is even or better in the matchup. Marth has it so much easier than falco, one missed l-cancel and your dead, plus its near impossible to get back onto the stage.

although I still 2 stocked kas's marth on fd.. YEAAAHHHZZ XDXDXDXD

 

[Dekar289]

turtle
m2k plays fox vs marth because in ntsc fox kills at 3% with upsmash
marth does **** jiggs
if i played myself marth vs jiggs i'd win by at least 3 stock
lol

 

[ComboTurtle]

syke and dekar banned from tier list conversation imo

fox has the slight advantage over marth its just easier to win with marth because no foxes here are amazing good and falco has it over marth aswell. also m2k hasnt beaten a jiggs with marth in so long deks. i think the only person who actually follows where the game is going and is very knowledgable on matchups and the sort is sam alot of you seem like your basing your decisions on matchups based on your own experiences

 

[S.D]

marth is even if not a slight advantage with fox, also a larger advantage over falco. I'm yet to see anything to prove that falco is even or better in the matchup. Marth has it so much easier than falco, one missed l-cancel and your dead, plus its near impossible to get back onto the stage.

although I still 2 stocked kas's marth on fd.. YEAAAHHHZZ XDXDXDXD

You've obv never played a good falco.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

I've played every falco in Aus, and I've watched alot of vids of the euro falco's.

 

[Redact]

syke and dekar banned from tier list conversation imo

fox has the slight advantage over marth its just easier to win with marth because no foxes here are amazing good and falco has it over marth aswell. also m2k hasnt beaten a jiggs with marth in so long deks. i think the only person who actually follows where the game is going and is very knowledgable on matchups and the sort is sam alot of you seem like your basing your decisions on matchups based on your own experiences

the problem with pal fox vs marth is the fact fox can flat out not combo off shine at all garunteed, unless its a shine in the air or the opponent is ******** and doesnt know how to combat resets.

the transition between ntsc and pal is that it negates foxes best move, his shine, against marth as a combo move. marth has had next to nothing changed (ok sure theres no ken combo, but its no where near as big as the plethora of changes fox has gone though)

if the matchup is reguarded as even in america (yes it is, and it still is) then how has fox, who has been considerably nerfed compared to marth, somehow gained an advantage?

as for falco, its the same thing, like his combo potention vs marth has already been reduced in pal, and his down air nerfed. both characters have been nerfed the same amount, but somehow a matchup that was even in ntsc, if not marth favour, has suddenly become falco favour?

really while you syd guys say you have uhh, experience, i dont see you guys travelling anywhere near as much as the rest of us, and you say you have experience?


m2k hasnt beaten a jiggs in so long because just mango and hbox are actually just THAT much better, do you think if mango can beat m2k with falco/fox/falcon, that m2k should suddenly beat mangos MAIN even if its a slightly bad matchup?


if anything turtle, you sydney guys are the ones basing your ratings off your experiences, you see sam winning now as falco, and suddenly hes top of top tier? advantage over marth (lol) and fox over marth? please, if youre having trouble dealing with space animals as marth, maybe post on the character forums or something

 

[S.D]

Statement still stands Zac.

Marth's only opportunities vs Falco comes when Falco messes up or does something stupid, until that point he gets the **** kicked out of him with combos that are ridiculously easy to perform and lasers get messy for Marth as well.

I agree with Tom in that Marth is only still top in Australia because it's much easier to play near the top of his metagame and mistakes are far less costly.

And also we do travel, not that that has any bearing on my argument.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

Marth can get around falco's lasers with ease.. at least I can. Falco's shine is also one of the easiest moves to SDI out of, I rarely get more than 3 hit combo'd by a falco.

As for making less costly mistakes -
miss an f-smash your dead
miss a grab and you'll get grabbed or smashed
miss a tilt and you'll get grabbed
miss an l-cancel and you'll get grabbed

He's mid weight and easy to combo by everyone. His recovery is bad, predictable and easy to gimp as well.


Oh and its not about who's "easier" to play at there metagame, but who would be better at that level.. thats what a tier list is about.

 

[S.D]

Marth can get around falco's lasers with ease.. at least I can. Falco's shine is also one of the easiest moves to SDI out of, I rarely get more than 3 hit combo'd by a falco.

As for making less costly mistakes -
miss an f-smash your dead
miss a grab and you'll get grabbed or smashed
miss a tilt and you'll get grabbed
miss an l-cancel and you'll get grabbed

He's mid weight and easy to combo by everyone. His recovery is bad, predictable and easy to gimp as well.


Oh and its not about who's "easier" to play at there metagame, but who would be better at that level.. thats what a tier list is about.

That point wasn't arguing tier placement just an observation on Marth in Aus and why everyone thinks he is better than he really is. At the highest level Falco > Marth, more versatile, more potential, mistake free won't lose.

 

[ComboTurtle]

the problem with pal fox vs marth is the fact fox can flat out not combo off shine at all garunteed, unless its a shine in the air or the opponent is ******** and doesnt know how to combat resets.

the transition between ntsc and pal is that it negates foxes best move, his shine, against marth as a combo move. marth has had next to nothing changed (ok sure theres no ken combo, but its no where near as big as the plethora of changes fox has gone though)

if the matchup is reguarded as even in america (yes it is, and it still is) then how has fox, who has been considerably nerfed compared to marth, somehow gained an advantage?

as for falco, its the same thing, like his combo potention vs marth has already been reduced in pal, and his down air nerfed. both characters have been nerfed the same amount, but somehow a matchup that was even in ntsc, if not marth favour, has suddenly become falco favour?

really while you syd guys say you have uhh, experience, i dont see you guys travelling anywhere near as much as the rest of us, and you say you have experience?


m2k hasnt beaten a jiggs in so long because just mango and hbox are actually just THAT much better, do you think if mango can beat m2k with falco/fox/falcon, that m2k should suddenly beat mangos MAIN even if its a slightly bad matchup?


if anything turtle, you sydney guys are the ones basing your ratings off your experiences, you see sam winning now as falco, and suddenly hes top of top tier? advantage over marth (lol) and fox over marth? please, if youre having trouble dealing with space animals as marth, maybe post on the character forums or something

ive actually based my opinion off tournament results, watching high level matches and reading up about matchups not watching sams falco. The top players in america believe the matchup to be in focks favour vs marth at high level play same with falco, sure there are obvious differences in the pal game and thunders combos are not always that easy to get out of your options are limited and unless you're holding up for some reason when you get shined you're put into a position to get punished. So yeah the matchup is probably better for marth in pal but its still somewhere around the 50-50 imo and as far as falco goes his down air nerf isnt that substantial and a good falco should **** all over marth unless hes making mistakes, thats not to say it doesnt happen and marth cant win the matchup ofcourse he can, but its tough.

 

[Sieg]

Assuming top potential in a character, why is Jigglypuff still above Fox?

 

[CAOTIC]

I have sent invitations to various smashers for Australia's contribution to the new PAL Tier list creation - accept it now - we have about a week to get something in.

 

[Dekar289]

marth has the chaingrab
marth has the back throw off edge gimp
marth has the up throw tipper at around 65%
marth has counter at edge to fair
marth's grab range is half of FD

marth beats space animals