PAL (Aus) Melee Tier List

[Dekar289]

you could say the same of marth imo too, if marth doesn't make any mistakes, he ***** falco
i think if both play without making any mistakes, the marth should win

whatevaaaaaa let's get some opinions from others

 

[Aussierob123]

not if falco decides to be gay and just laser forever. .

 

[Atticus]

I think Marth vs. both Falco and Fox is pretty even. Advantage can swing lightly or heavily depending on stage choice.

For Falco, it's much easier for Falco to gain momentum from a neutral position thanks to laser lockdown and combined with pillaring etc. he has a very oppressive shield pressure game. We all know what a vicious punishment game Marth has for Falco though so I think it more or less balances out. There's no question that Falco has to play a very tight game to avoid getting *****, but it's equally true that if he does the matchup becomes very difficult for Marth to play.

It's a pretty similar story for Fox. He doesn't have the lasers as a lockdown tool but he certainly has other strong options and high speed for the push/pull game vs. Marth, and also gets a slightly better recovery to work with (but still generally enjoys a full dosage of **** when Marth gets the grab/hit in).

 

[S.D]

you could say the same of marth imo too, if marth doesn't make any mistakes, he ***** falco
i think if both play without making any mistakes, the marth should win

whatevaaaaaa let's get some opinions from others

It's widely regarded as a very even MU for a reason. But here are the facts.

Falco controls the nuetral ground far better than Marth, limits his natural spacing options and ground speed/dd. This allows Falco to dictate the pace of the match - he can play it campy or agro - or a blend. basically Falco is able to control (in the main) when the MU gets to close quarters, where he has the advantage of having Marth on the defensive. Essentially this is where a players skill comes in as to whether they can break down Marth's defense and earn a combo or if they screw up technically (or mentally) allowing Marth to combo. Marth has to work much harder for his opportunities, but if he can make them they are devastating. Falco consistently gets opportunities and makes good use of them also, probably not as potentially devastating.

50/50 anyway, cbf with more elaboration - read someone elses MU analysis in char discussion for more details etc etc

Edit: Atticus beats me to the punch with yet another well reasoned post

 

[Redact]

even

5am cbf reasoning, might give legit reasons some other time

 

[Surgi]

Red is right. Falco = Marth. The person who plays better on the day will win. I don't know why you guys are judging the list on potential because no player can play frame by frame AND make every judgement perfect AND never miss a shine/l cancel/spike/fsmash or whatever. Make the tier list by tournament results and it better reflects the current metagame. Playing by potential is putting it by perfect metagame which is illogical.

Edit: Also I agree with Atticus in that Fox is even with Both Falco and Marth. The stage choices change the outcome (ie. Marth ***** fox on FD while Fox beats falco on Pokemon Stadium).

Edit: S.D you are forgetting 1 thing. In a perfect match with no mistakes Falco does not control the ground because lasers are completely discounted by perfect sheilding. If a marth was to perfectly reflect every laser that Falco shot then Marth would instantly gain a huge advantage in not only % lead but also in combo ability with the hit stun of the lasers. This leads to Marth being higher on the list than Falco in a tier list of potential ability. This makes this kind of match stupid and is why it should be based on results much like the PR list is. It better reflects the current metagame.

 

[ComboTurtle]

you are a stupid downey what they mean is like a falco playing at the highest level of the metagame say dsw or mango playing their flawless best vs like a m2k playing the same. Also i couldnt quote this above for some reason because im on my phone and its ****.

Red is right. Falco = Marth. The person who plays better on the day will win. I don't know why you guys are judging the list on potential because no player can play frame by frame AND make every judgement perfect AND never miss a shine/l cancel/spike/fsmash or whatever. Make the tier list by tournament results and it better reflects the current metagame. Playing by potential is putting it by perfect metagame which is illogical.

Edit: Also I agree with Atticus in that Fox is even with Both Falco and Marth. The stage choices change the outcome (ie. Marth ***** fox on FD while Fox beats falco on Pokemon Stadium).

Edit: S.D you are forgetting 1 thing. In a perfect match with no mistakes Falco does not control the ground because lasers are completely discounted by perfect sheilding. If a marth was to perfectly reflect every laser that Falco shot then Marth would instantly gain a huge advantage in not only % lead but also in combo ability with the hit stun of the lasers. This leads to Marth being higher on the list than Falco in a tier list of potential ability. This makes this kind of match stupid and is why it should be based on results much like the PR list is. It better reflects the current metagame.

 

[Surgi]

you are a stupid downey what they mean is like a falco playing at the highest level of the metagame say dsw or mango playing their flawless best vs like a m2k playing the same. Also i couldnt quote this above for some reason because im on my phone and its ****.

They clearly said if the marth and falco made absolutely NO mistakes. It is impossible for a human to make no mistakes when the game is running at 60 frames a second and attacks like rest and shine take just 1 frame to come out. Therefore the game has to be slowed down a lot. I am not stupid, read the earlier posts the word "Potential" comes up which means a match played perfectly frame by frame, otherwise it is impossible to completely live up to the characters potential.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

m2k quite often powershields lasers and if he was playing at his perfect best the falco would get destroyed.

 

[Surgi]

m2k quite often powershields lasers and if he was playing at his perfect best the falco would get destroyed.

And it because M2K takes (some of) falcos laser power away that falcos get ***** and therefore marth is higher on the potential tier list. Then why do foxes and falcos and marth ever lose? because no player can play flawlessly and therefore basing a tier list on that aspect is illogical and stupid.

Edit: Imma stop posting now coz you guys aren't thinking. And tak will rage at me again.

 

[TakFR]

It's like watching a car crash in slow motion >_>

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

all the Europeans are going to vote for jiggs/fox/sheik anyway so its pointless to do anything.

 

[unreon]

Popping in this zone to say that I think Marth>Falco about 55:45.

But Marth=Fox.

But if I'm the Falco then the ratio skews much higher towards Marth. Especially if it's ComboTurtle :/

 

[ComboTurtle]

you're ****ing all downeys and the europeans will vote correctly because their meta game is beyond ours i think at higher level play spacies have a slight advantage over marth and it changes a bit depending on stages no one ****ing powershields everything and you're all jerks edit: i also noticed i said flawless best but yeah no one is flawless and ever will be

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

nup, I talked to them, amsah wants to give jiggs a bj.. the rest agree and want to watch.

and spacies have no advantage over my marth.. must just be playing it at a METAGAME LEVEL?????

 

[xXArrowXx]

doesn't marth have that gay chainthrow on fox..
and can edgeguard the crap out of him :/

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

only nubs chainthrow.

 

[Sieg]

You chainthrow.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

nu bru

10bru's

 

[Sirias]

Pretty sure you win because you've watched every Marth video and combo video and know how to combo, lolll.

Jiggs should be 1st or 2nd, then.
I'd imagine Sheik should be 3rd, Fox 1st or 2nd, Falco 4th, Marth 5th.