Omegablackmage's Mr. Game and Watch Guide

[Rajam]

Question: can you storage on the bucket any of an opponent G&W's specials? Like the food (B special), Oil Panic (that would be epic lol) or any number from hammer of judgement?

 

[cutter]

Question: can you storage on the bucket any of an opponent G&W's specials? Like the food (B special), Oil Panic (that would be epic lol) or any number from hammer of judgement?

No you cannot. Oil Panic only absorbs energy-based projectiles.

It is quite strange though; while you are unable to absorb the food from G&W's Chef, you CAN absorb Kirby's Chef when he copies G&W. This has been around since Melee and it still puzzles me.

 

[Rajam]

Im 100% sure you can get a 1 ( side+b ) on the first pull of a stock ( I have a video proof if someone wants it anyways )

Also, i guess dash attack can spike hanging enemies both when the enemy is almost reaching the edge ( just a little frames before ) and when the foe is getting up on the stage ( a little frames after )... That would make dash attack a very interesting option at edgeguarding ( i have another video about that, though im not sure about the timing of the hits )

 

[omegablackmage]

ya i do this to mk players all the time when they use the drill rush to get back to the stage, however, it doesn't hit most people because they can either auto sweetspot or they just don't hang on the ledge that long.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

lol I remember where I told obm that you could dash attack spike MK in the middle of a shuttle loop. It's true!

 

[JesiahTEG]

Hey OBM how are you man? Just wanted to say I think Snake beats G&W 7-3 or 6-4, and MK beats G&W that badly also.

 

[omegablackmage]

i will probably have to agree with you on snake, id say probably 6-4. I really want to play either dsf or some of the 'amazing' florida snakes to see how that really works out. and as far as mk, personally im inclined to say that its neutral or only 55-45 in mk's favor, but i'll need to play m2k to really settle my opinion.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Well M2K is a tad better than you lol...Have you seen this thread? Check it out if you haven't.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198110

 

[omegablackmage]

uh i never said I was better than m2k? lol

also that thread has a lot of problems with it. they assume that gw players are helpless w/o bairing, also hylian severely underestimates the use of the up air in this matchup i think. who knows though

 

[Ruuku]

Don't forget about UpB and ledge camping.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ledgecamping vs Snake/MK seems really risky. And OBM the only reason I said M2K was better is because you said you wanted to play him to see how the matchup really is. Well, regardless of which character you use against him you'll always think that his character ***** yours...He's amazing at Smash and ***** everybody, is the point i was getting at.

 

[omegablackmage]

oh ok i misinterpreted what you were saying. but i think if i were to play m2k, it would be the pinnacle of mk play, and hopefully I could see the difference between skill and simple character imbalances

 

[Ruuku]

Ledgecamping vs Snake/MK seems really risky. And OBM the only reason I said M2K was better is because you said you wanted to play him to see how the matchup really is. Well, regardless of which character you use against him you'll always think that his character ***** yours...He's amazing at Smash and ***** everybody, is the point i was getting at.

I don't see how this is risky.

 

[Neb]

I don't see how this is risky.

Agreed. G&W's ledge camp is pillowed, its actually very safe considering his aerial hitboxes.
I can see how it can be a tad risky against Snake, though, considering his weapons medley.

 

[JesiahTEG]

It's risky vs Snake because of his Nikita, which can stagespike you. Vs MK it's risky because MK dominates every character off the stage.

 

[slikvik]

so, did this match-up several times against chillins snake in mm's and tourney saturday. terrrible. i switched to other characters not as good and did much better.

 

[Neb]

It's risky vs Snake because of his Nikita, which can stagespike you. Vs MK it's risky because MK dominates every character off the stage.

Nikita's pretty easy to weave around, especially if the G&W is using his upB right, the invincibility frames bypass any possible stage-spike. Not only that, but while the Snake is experiencing the lag from launching nikita, its simple punishment, GaW can then just go back to the ledge. Besides, its easy to redirect it with aerials.

And with MK, your forgetting that GaW has one of the finest, if not the best aerials in the game.
What can MK do that Game & Watch can't shake and bake?

 

[JesiahTEG]

?? Nikita will either hit you and send you flying away or hit you and stagespike you...Not to mention he can throw grenades so that if you stay on the ledge too long they'll blow up and you'll get hit. Combine that with Nikita'ing and it's hard for G&W.

And if Snake does the Nikita right, it's really hard to stop. He wouldn't do it right near the edge, he goes down and follows you with it. It's remote controlled silly.

 

[Neb]

?? Nikita will either hit you and send you flying away or hit you and stagespike you...Not to mention he can throw grenades so that if you stay on the ledge too long they'll blow up and you'll get hit. Combine that with Nikita'ing and it's hard for G&W.

And if Snake does the Nikita right, it's really hard to stop. He wouldn't do it right near the edge, he goes down and follows you with it. It's remote controlled silly.

Okay, that's if it hits you, though. Upb has invincibility frames, and high priority lingering there after, which enables Game & Watch to surge through the projectile, unscathed. Nikita needs to be moving in one direction to pick-up speed, because of that, its easily telegraphed. Once its avoided, it takes considerable time to adjust the trajectory, G&W can get around this by Airdodging/Upbing through it.

If Snake lays grenades by the ledge, he can drop, wait for them to explode, second jump (combine with airdodge if Nikita is approaching), then return with his Upb. Another option would be to abuse the invincibility frames on the ledge. Or just weave through the grenade bed, and go after Snake, who'd be suffering from the lag of his side-b. And if Snake wants to leave his nades at the ledge, that's a freebie for Game & Watch to marry with his follow-up.

Considering how mobile G&W is in air, a vertical approach could be safe in this situation too, especially since Upb cancels into FF'd aerials/specials. Though GaW would need to watch out for impromptu tilts.

 

[Ruuku]

Okay, that's if it hits you, though. Upb has invincibility frames, and high priority lingering there after, which enables Game & Watch to surge through the projectile, unscathed. Nikita needs to be moving in one direction to pick-up speed, because of that, its easily telegraphed. Once its avoided, it takes considerable time to adjust the trajectory, G&W can get around this by Airdodging/Upbing through it.

If Snake lays grenades by the ledge, he can drop, wait for them to explode, second jump (combine with airdodge if Nikita is approaching), then return with his Upb. Another option would be to abuse the invincibility frames on the ledge. Or just weave through the grenade bed, and go after Snake, who'd be suffering from the lag of his side-b. And if Snake wants to leave his nades at the ledge, that's a freebie for Game & Watch to marry with his follow-up.

Considering how mobile G&W is in air, a vertical approach could be safe in this situation too, especially since Upb cancels into FF'd aerials/specials. Though GaW would need to watch out for impromptu tilts.

Neb pretty much got it down. The only thing I want to add is that G&W can also use Uair to push up grenades dropped on him or push away the ones left at the edge by doing Uairs, making the air puff go through the stage.

 

[Neb]

Neb pretty much got it down. The only thing I want to add is that G&W can also use Uair to push up grenades dropped on him or push away the ones left at the edge by doing Uairs, making the air puff go through the stage.

I was going to add that.
But the way he said it, implied the nades were laying on the ledge.
G&W can't blow the grenades up if they're already immobile, the most he can do is slightly move them to the side. Though uair'ing works if they're still bouncing.

 

[Kyari]

Someone told me recently that Snake's ftilt outprioritizes G&W's bair. Is this true, and if it is, does it nullify G&W's approach with bair as a consequence?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You can bait a ftilt, if he expects you to do a bair. Just jump close to him (backwards) and djump away again just out of his ftilt range. Then you can do a bair.
However, it's risky and I doubt you can do something against it. First of all, you can't do that too often since a good Snake won't fall for it more than once and even if he does, his can Shield every single hit with a completely healthy shield.

This is what makes this match-up so hard imo. If you get close enough to Snake, he can just mortar Slide away, once he gets the chance and you have to do it all again.
Maybe G&Ws neutral B might help him. I haven't looked close enough into this move but I think, it might be useful...

 

[Kyari]

What if he does shield every single hit? How is this bad for G&W?

Also Gheb, I take it you've played Tales of Symphonia?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If he shields all hits, he can just use ftilt again :/

<3 ToS gg

 

[Kyari]

You know, ToS2 is coming out for the Wii on Nov. 11th...

Also, Are you saying he can shield drop into ftilt before you can shield?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm European. ToS2 isn't even announced for us afaik :/

Snakes ftilt comes out in 4 frames. Idk if GnW has less lag + Shield startup frames. I don't think so

 

[Kyari]

Yes but that's before you add the frames required to shielddrop. Are you sure it's still small enough of a window for Snake to throw that ftilt out there? Note that a bair within range of Snake's ftilt is faster than Snake's ftilt if both are thrown out at the same time...

 

[MRTW113]

Quick question: can d-smash double hit? I heard it can do about 28% if both hammer handles hit...

 

[cutter]

^ G&W's Dsmash does not double hit, AFAIK.

G&W's Bair has 12 frames of "landing lag". I put this in quotes because when G&W hits the ground the hitbox is still active.

Even if there were no landing hitbox, Snake would have to drop his shield (7 frames) and then execute an Ftilt (4 frames). Snake has a 1 frame window to punish G&W.

Now WITH the landing hitbox, the shieldstun subtracts a few frames. Snake has no window to punish G&W; to punish Bair he needs to use a grenade.

Spotdodging the last hit is out of the question. It takes 22 frames to go through a spotdodge; Snake will definately have no shot at punishing G&W.

 

[Kyari]

This is what I thought...

 

[XtACY]

This guide helped a lot!!! Thanks dude

 

[Hylian]

I'm pretty sure Snakes F-tilt hitbox just has more range then GW's bair >_> lol.

 

[cutter]

I don't like these new pictures.

The old ones were much more nicer and clear.

 

[omegablackmage]

the old pictures crapped the bed though, i don't really have the means to make them myself so i really just take whatever people give me.

yes, the knee can go through the turtle, a little absurd i think, but a fact of the game i guess.

 

[pockyD]

not as absurd as mk's glide attack clanking with g/w's smashes, including the fsmash =\

 

[Neb]

I've had bair clanks with some moves before too, lol.

I don't like these new pictures.

The old ones were much more nicer and clear.

Why thank you, -_-.

...just something about the G&W boards.

 

[pockyD]

what does bair clank with?

i've never seen an air move clank aside from that stupid glide attack

 

[Neb]

what does bair clank with?

i've never seen an air move clank aside from that stupid glide attack

I haven't got a clue, wasn't paying attention to the attack, I was adjusting my spacing.
But the last few frames, including the landing hitbox, clanked about 2-3 times as I ff'd.

 

[pockyD]

if you didn't see the attack, how do you know they weren't just power-shielding?