DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Sorry William, I was wanting you to make the thread, but I guess Excellence made it first.
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Olimar Matchup Directory
- Thread starter Capt. Olimar
- Start date
Excellence
Smash Champion
Kill it and make it yourself if you want.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
lol you're fine, just wanted to apologize to Will since I had given him permission to do what he wants. The threads up and discussions will continue as they would have, so it's cool.
Noa.
Smash Master
By the end of the week a new discussion thread should be up. I'm not saying to post it NOW but are there any thoughts for the next one.
In terms of bad matchups we haven't discussed Peach, Luigi, and such.
Also I was reading the OP and I noticed something. My chart isn't there.
In terms of bad matchups we haven't discussed Peach, Luigi, and such.
Also I was reading the OP and I noticed something. My chart isn't there.
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
We've talked about Peach off and on; I think we could do more with a discussion about LuigiBy the end of the week a new discussion thread should be up. I'm not saying to post it NOW but are there any thoughts for the next one.
In terms of bad matchups we haven't discussed Peach, Luigi, and such.
Also I was reading the OP and I noticed something. My chart isn't there.
Oh, and also a mini-discussion on ROB to make up for the one we have right now O_o
Greward
Smash Lord
nah not peach
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Ownership given to Noa, thanks man. Feel free to run it however you see fit.
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
Cool!
So Luigi?
So Luigi?
Noa.
Smash Master
Ok thanks for Hilt letting me take this thread.
The OP is basically the same but it has been updated with a lot more discussions as well as the chart. Some discussions are old but they'll stay there until we have replacements or they become REALLY outdated.
By Monday we will have a new discussion up. It will be Luigi unless other people have objections to Vocal.
The OP is basically the same but it has been updated with a lot more discussions as well as the chart. Some discussions are old but they'll stay there until we have replacements or they become REALLY outdated.
By Monday we will have a new discussion up. It will be Luigi unless other people have objections to Vocal.
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2008
- Messages
- 27,486
- Location
- Milwaukee, Wisconsin
- NNID
- RedRyu_Smash
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- 0344-9312-3352
Noa.
Smash Master
Someone please make the Luigi matchup thread.
A1lion835
Smash Champion
The Kirby boards are discussing Olimar! Any help with the discussion would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=289307
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=289307
Sabeta
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 31
I need some serious help against Ike; everything from his jab to his random moves are absolutely obliterating me. I'm killed at 80% is his kill range for me, and I seem to have little to know hope unless I whistle/dodge EVERYTHING. He also edge guards way to well.
PSI.kick
Smash Lord
camp camp camp. camp dodge camp purple usmash camp some more. pivot grab then camp even more. this matchup really isn't that hard, just don't be stupid and keep track of your line. I'm pretty sure you can ask about this more in the q&a thread if you need more than the crap i just gave you.
Slain Avenger
Smash Ace
Seems like you're just not use to it. Take this from someone who just got to the point of actually being able to camp, you just need to practice. Camping isn't always going to be easy, people want to break through your camp so you have to be smart about it. Once you get use to handling the pressure you'll notice that it comes naturally.
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
Forget about SHDPT in this matchup; it's unnecessary and dangerous. Jumping period is a bad idea the majority of the time - you want to stay grounded. Jump only to throw single pikmin from afar (very far, out-of-his-Dash-Attack-range far). Throw pikmin from the ground often. Pivot grab every single thing he does. Don't try to rely on Usmash, as it will often be punished (that sword's a pain in the ***). Although Ike is somewhat easy to combo at low percentages, don't go for the grab. If it happens, then great; otherwise, just rack damage with pikmin. Space with Fsmash occasionally. Learn the timing on his Nair and how he generally uses it to approach. When he's on the ledge, keep in mind how far onto the stage his UpB can go, and stay away from it (or PS it if you have the reflexes and prediction skills). Grounded UpB is risky but rewarding.
Those are the basic points. Most important out of them all: PIVOT GRAB EVERYTHING
The Ike match-up discussion is in the first post, but I'll go ahead and link it to you here.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=280743
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=280743
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
lol still such a good read
Noa.
Smash Master
Honestly that thread explains all you need to do to beat Ike.
If you're still losing to Ike the player is probably better than you is all.
If you're still losing to Ike the player is probably better than you is all.
PSI.kick
Smash Lord
Lol that actually helped me a lot xD
When we camp what do we do when they approach us? charge them grab or what? rolling is bad i know, but i get ***** every time it seems.
also what do we do against DK, i know it's not a bad mu but i have no experience with it.
edit: oops thought this was the q&a lol. my bad.
When we camp what do we do when they approach us? charge them grab or what? rolling is bad i know, but i get ***** every time it seems.
also what do we do against DK, i know it's not a bad mu but i have no experience with it.
edit: oops thought this was the q&a lol. my bad.
Noa.
Smash Master
Pivot grab?
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Oh my god. I played Hades Blade in like
two hours of ****in intense friendlies and a money match, Yoshi Olimar is a fun as hell matchup but he gives us a lot of problems until you get it down. I really wanna do a quick writeup of the Yoshi matchup, because he's probably the second best Yoshi behind Polt imo. I haven't played Polt in forever but I really want to.
But like
GOD ****ING **** THE YOSHI MATCHUP IS WEIRD
Also Luigi's a ****ty character. Low tier.
two hours of ****in intense friendlies and a money match, Yoshi Olimar is a fun as hell matchup but he gives us a lot of problems until you get it down. I really wanna do a quick writeup of the Yoshi matchup, because he's probably the second best Yoshi behind Polt imo. I haven't played Polt in forever but I really want to.
But like
GOD ****ING **** THE YOSHI MATCHUP IS WEIRD
Also Luigi's a ****ty character. Low tier.
Jane
Smash Hero
yaaaayyyy! that makes me happy because hades is AZ at heart :3
az go hard
az go hard
Noa.
Smash Master
Yoshi is really annoying and even though I believe we win it's not by much. He's just so weird and stupid lol. Probably my least favorite matchup.
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
Please do; I've had trouble fighting Yoshis in the past
**** YEAH Hilt, please get on that. I had some ideas, but I can't really test them out (and I hate yoshi on wifi <.<). The easiest way I know how to beat yoshi right now is get the lead and hope there isn't a LGL
TheOgbot
Smash Journeyman
Fino's got the right idea. A few good general rules of thumb...
- Don't let a Yoshi egg lay you. More often than not that leads to your pikmin separating from you and them getting dsmashed.
- Watch out when you're recovering downwards towards Yoshi. If they read any kind of dodge or whistle, you'll get uaired.
- Jab to down b is stupid. Both parts can be shielded, but the pressure it creates on your shield is actually something to not sleep on. The down b also has the ability to shield poke.
Basically, camp him. If you camp a Yoshi really well, there's not much the player can do other than try to approach.
- Don't let a Yoshi egg lay you. More often than not that leads to your pikmin separating from you and them getting dsmashed.
- Watch out when you're recovering downwards towards Yoshi. If they read any kind of dodge or whistle, you'll get uaired.
- Jab to down b is stupid. Both parts can be shielded, but the pressure it creates on your shield is actually something to not sleep on. The down b also has the ability to shield poke.
Basically, camp him. If you camp a Yoshi really well, there's not much the player can do other than try to approach.
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
Your avatar needs more...gana.
Tee hee
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Few things about the Yoshi matchup, since I don't feel like doing a full writeup.
-Don't land near Yoshi ever, ever, ever. Yoshis are incredible at punishing landings and will catch you nine times out of ten. Land on a platform if you can, and take it from there. Make him have to commit to pressuring you on the platform and it should leave you room to get off.
-Egg Throw isn't a problem. Don't throw pikmin while the egg is traveling at you, throw pikmin during the start up of his attack. You don't want to throw pikmin in the later half so that you're able to react to both the egg and Yoshi if he decides to approach. If he doesn't, and throws another egg, toss another pikmin or two. This is long and boring, but you won't take any damage, and he will until he decides to approach. And when he does decide to approach, you'll be ready.
-Bair on your shield is as easy to get around as rolling around him and running. Seriously. After he's committed to the bair, the best thing he can do is either land and jab backwards, if you roll too soon, or try to jab backwards after his bair. If you roll around him early enough, with bair being as laggy as it is, you'll sometimes even have enough time to attack him before he's out of lag.
-Do NOT Nair -> Usmash Yoshi. It's just like Luigi, except it won't kill you. Yoshi's Nair comes on frame 3 and won't let the usmash hit. Utilt works, however. Shield the Nair and then Usmashing works as well, if you'd like to try that.
-Don't try to usmash oos his bair. The attack will hit the pikmin if it's still going on, and he's able to jab you if it isn't.
-When Yoshi's approaching you from the air (almost always with bair), don't sit in one spot. Him hitting your shield with a bair is completely safe and he's able to throw out jabs and tilts until he either hits you or you run away.
-Watch out for Dash Attack. Hades would often throw it out after throwing an egg or grabbing. It covers lag pretty well, and completely beats out most options we have, except pivot grabbing it. But it's pretty fast to react to. It isn't really a move used for kills, but it's more so a setup. It puts you in a ****ty position that you have to react to. Usually when I get hit by a dash attack, I'll do a regular get up and jump. Hades would oftentimes use me having to get up to keep pressure me. Jumping away is the best way to get away from said pressure. The main thing is to not to try to react to it with an aerial, or a grab, or a smash, like you normally might, but to focus more on getting away. Yoshi's going to focus on keeping pressure, for kills and damage racking. Focus on not letting him keep this pressure.
-Yoshi's kill options aren't that great against Olimar. Whistle outdoes most of his aerial kills. Most of his kills are predictable, as well, before you've seen them a few times. Uair might surprise you the first couple of times he lands a kill with it. Also keep in mind that Yoshi isn't the best at guarding the ledge and the stage at the same time. He can't edge hog and jump off to go for the gimp, and he can't become a wall in front of the stage and scare you away. This is mostly due to him only being able to guard with bair (which he has to commit to) and nair. Neither of which are great for gimping. Uair isn't really a gimping tool, but more so of a kill option that's more viable when the opponent is off stage. Whistle deals well with it, though. Watch out for fsmash when you're getting back on stage, and dsmash when Yoshi's pressuring you.
I usually ban Rainbow Cruise or Frigate. Frigate doesn't bother Yoshi at all, and he can take full advantage of our lack of a ledge, as well as the fact that there's no platform on the right side. That was actually the biggest problem I had with Frigate against Yoshi. I don't counterpick Delfino in this matchup. Not having platforms is a huge problem, and quite a few sections this is the case. A few of the sections he's also able to outcamp us, due to the terrain. And a lot of the stage is just too much to keep up with, and purple pikmin aren't as big of a deal against Yoshi as they are against most other characters. My main CP is Halberd, although I do like Battlefield as well. I don't remember where I CP'd Hades in our last mm... I think it was Battlefield, it might have been Lylat, actually. FD isn't a good stage to fight him on, SV is worse. Yoshi's isn't that big of a deal. Just keep in mind that if Yoshi DownB's on a slanted edge, such as YI's platform, he'll fall off and have no lag. It isn't that big of a deal, nothing to ban the stage over, it's just something you'll want to know and look out for.
I might add a few points after awhile. This is all for now, though.
-Don't land near Yoshi ever, ever, ever. Yoshis are incredible at punishing landings and will catch you nine times out of ten. Land on a platform if you can, and take it from there. Make him have to commit to pressuring you on the platform and it should leave you room to get off.
-Egg Throw isn't a problem. Don't throw pikmin while the egg is traveling at you, throw pikmin during the start up of his attack. You don't want to throw pikmin in the later half so that you're able to react to both the egg and Yoshi if he decides to approach. If he doesn't, and throws another egg, toss another pikmin or two. This is long and boring, but you won't take any damage, and he will until he decides to approach. And when he does decide to approach, you'll be ready.
-Bair on your shield is as easy to get around as rolling around him and running. Seriously. After he's committed to the bair, the best thing he can do is either land and jab backwards, if you roll too soon, or try to jab backwards after his bair. If you roll around him early enough, with bair being as laggy as it is, you'll sometimes even have enough time to attack him before he's out of lag.
-Do NOT Nair -> Usmash Yoshi. It's just like Luigi, except it won't kill you. Yoshi's Nair comes on frame 3 and won't let the usmash hit. Utilt works, however. Shield the Nair and then Usmashing works as well, if you'd like to try that.
-Don't try to usmash oos his bair. The attack will hit the pikmin if it's still going on, and he's able to jab you if it isn't.
-When Yoshi's approaching you from the air (almost always with bair), don't sit in one spot. Him hitting your shield with a bair is completely safe and he's able to throw out jabs and tilts until he either hits you or you run away.
-Watch out for Dash Attack. Hades would often throw it out after throwing an egg or grabbing. It covers lag pretty well, and completely beats out most options we have, except pivot grabbing it. But it's pretty fast to react to. It isn't really a move used for kills, but it's more so a setup. It puts you in a ****ty position that you have to react to. Usually when I get hit by a dash attack, I'll do a regular get up and jump. Hades would oftentimes use me having to get up to keep pressure me. Jumping away is the best way to get away from said pressure. The main thing is to not to try to react to it with an aerial, or a grab, or a smash, like you normally might, but to focus more on getting away. Yoshi's going to focus on keeping pressure, for kills and damage racking. Focus on not letting him keep this pressure.
-Yoshi's kill options aren't that great against Olimar. Whistle outdoes most of his aerial kills. Most of his kills are predictable, as well, before you've seen them a few times. Uair might surprise you the first couple of times he lands a kill with it. Also keep in mind that Yoshi isn't the best at guarding the ledge and the stage at the same time. He can't edge hog and jump off to go for the gimp, and he can't become a wall in front of the stage and scare you away. This is mostly due to him only being able to guard with bair (which he has to commit to) and nair. Neither of which are great for gimping. Uair isn't really a gimping tool, but more so of a kill option that's more viable when the opponent is off stage. Whistle deals well with it, though. Watch out for fsmash when you're getting back on stage, and dsmash when Yoshi's pressuring you.
I usually ban Rainbow Cruise or Frigate. Frigate doesn't bother Yoshi at all, and he can take full advantage of our lack of a ledge, as well as the fact that there's no platform on the right side. That was actually the biggest problem I had with Frigate against Yoshi. I don't counterpick Delfino in this matchup. Not having platforms is a huge problem, and quite a few sections this is the case. A few of the sections he's also able to outcamp us, due to the terrain. And a lot of the stage is just too much to keep up with, and purple pikmin aren't as big of a deal against Yoshi as they are against most other characters. My main CP is Halberd, although I do like Battlefield as well. I don't remember where I CP'd Hades in our last mm... I think it was Battlefield, it might have been Lylat, actually. FD isn't a good stage to fight him on, SV is worse. Yoshi's isn't that big of a deal. Just keep in mind that if Yoshi DownB's on a slanted edge, such as YI's platform, he'll fall off and have no lag. It isn't that big of a deal, nothing to ban the stage over, it's just something you'll want to know and look out for.
I might add a few points after awhile. This is all for now, though.
hadesblade
Smash Lord
Hilt covered a lot of the matchup. One thing I noticed and abused several times is that if yoshi dash grabs and oli pivot grabs, yoshi gets the grab. If yoshi is approaching you when you are both grounded, don't pivot grab. During my first mm with hilt it was game 3 last hit on picto and i saw the piranha plant spawning. I just dashed at him from halfway across the stage knowing he would want to just pivot grab me into it. After running across the stage I dash grabbed and threw him into the piranha plant.
Yoshi's best kill moves, (uair, usmash, down b) are all extremely unsafe on olimar. You should outlive us unless you poorly DI a dtilt/DA and get edgehogged. I believe you can punish a whistled usmash. I usually end up kill with a Nair, which is extremely safe to chase oli offstage with.
Yoshi does get outcamped pretty hard by olimar, so he has to approach. I find full hopping towards olimar and following it up with a bair/nair/egg lay is extremely safe on any of olis grounded options. If he does anything that causes the end result to be him near you grounded, jab is by far yoshis best option. Then followed by more jabs, and if you shield them we can usually just jump away. If oli runs back to pivot grab then yoshi can double jump and egglay if oli get some distance, or nair if he is close to rise above the grab and still remain in range to punish.
The matchup is close to even, until olimar has several purples. They mess up any chance we ever had of ground approaching, and even mess up a lot of air options. They also have a large usmash hitbox, that can outrange our nair after the first few frames if spaced correctly.
If olimar ever lands within a 2 mile radius of yoshi, he will get grabbed.
Platforms destroy yoshi in this matchup. It gives olimar much safer landings. It also eliminates any chance yoshi has of fullhopping over tossed pikmin while he approaches. If yoshi is on a platform, olimar can do about anything besides usmashing safely. We can drop through and nair your usmash. I think I will ban bf next time I play this matchup. Yoshi's and lylat's platforms both cause yoshi problems too, and they are both pretty annoying, but not as bad as battlefield. The slope tricks at both stages are cute but not really useful. Halberd is a a decent counterpick for olimar. The low ceiling makes us die faster, and doesn't help us kill olimar. And the part where the stage is flying has a really annoying platform in the middle and slopes that mess up yoshi's grab. However the flat part is nice and flat, with the only platform in the middle not covering much of the stage.
I used to think this matchup was extremely bad, like a lot of yoshis still think. You just have to realize we have decent options for everything olimar can do.
Yoshi's best kill moves, (uair, usmash, down b) are all extremely unsafe on olimar. You should outlive us unless you poorly DI a dtilt/DA and get edgehogged. I believe you can punish a whistled usmash. I usually end up kill with a Nair, which is extremely safe to chase oli offstage with.
Yoshi does get outcamped pretty hard by olimar, so he has to approach. I find full hopping towards olimar and following it up with a bair/nair/egg lay is extremely safe on any of olis grounded options. If he does anything that causes the end result to be him near you grounded, jab is by far yoshis best option. Then followed by more jabs, and if you shield them we can usually just jump away. If oli runs back to pivot grab then yoshi can double jump and egglay if oli get some distance, or nair if he is close to rise above the grab and still remain in range to punish.
The matchup is close to even, until olimar has several purples. They mess up any chance we ever had of ground approaching, and even mess up a lot of air options. They also have a large usmash hitbox, that can outrange our nair after the first few frames if spaced correctly.
If olimar ever lands within a 2 mile radius of yoshi, he will get grabbed.
Platforms destroy yoshi in this matchup. It gives olimar much safer landings. It also eliminates any chance yoshi has of fullhopping over tossed pikmin while he approaches. If yoshi is on a platform, olimar can do about anything besides usmashing safely. We can drop through and nair your usmash. I think I will ban bf next time I play this matchup. Yoshi's and lylat's platforms both cause yoshi problems too, and they are both pretty annoying, but not as bad as battlefield. The slope tricks at both stages are cute but not really useful. Halberd is a a decent counterpick for olimar. The low ceiling makes us die faster, and doesn't help us kill olimar. And the part where the stage is flying has a really annoying platform in the middle and slopes that mess up yoshi's grab. However the flat part is nice and flat, with the only platform in the middle not covering much of the stage.
I used to think this matchup was extremely bad, like a lot of yoshis still think. You just have to realize we have decent options for everything olimar can do.
ScAtt77
Smash Journeyman
Would anyone mind telling me why Falco is considered Olimar's worst mu to some?
Projectile game is on par with Olimar and has a better close up game.
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
What Fino said. With lasers he can go even with our camping (some believe we can outcamp him slightly, but it would only be slight), and his low-startup, cancel-able jab destroys all of our options up close.
Plus his chainthrow is much more profitable than ours is.
Greward
Smash Lord
falco and diddy are the worst ones imo
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
We haven't updated or discussed it in awhile, we've been working on more important things. Like our metagame, lol.
forbidden..
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
Everything.
Who are you?