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The only characters we lose to are diddy and ICs (unless you're rich and you have the magical power to make every IC main you play in tournament drop 80% of their grabs lol). L@rry, @nti, N@iro etc are players that beast the olimar match-up, but we general beat the characters they play.
we also lose against falco and marth =P
idk what Marth's you guys are losing to =/
why don't I know who you are?
It actually looks pretty accurate to me
That stands for disadvantage. That or slight disadvantage
I think the Wario matchup is even. However I obviously haven't played Gluttony, I've played three other top Warios, though. Had close losses against two of them and beat the other. And I hadn't even worked to learn the matchup at that time. Not saying that that means that it's in our favor or not in their favor, but I haven't seen a reason for it to be a disadvantage for us.
I don't. I know you're right, lol.
Definitely
Yeah, wolf's even :/ It's not a disadvantage like some think, but it's no cake walk.
We have no solid options against monkey flip/kick. All his item throws are faster, his get up animations are faster, and olimar's in general have ****ty item control (why learn to master items when we normally block everything with our camp?). Diddy has solid priority and is fast on the ground, his nair removes all pikmin easily as well as eliminate a lot of our options.
Jump > Z > A
ADHD says hi .-.
Yeah, I'm bad at the Wario MU too =/ but I'd agree to even. Malcom says uair and usmashoos make the MU REALLY difficult for Wario.
King Dedede - LOLyahright
Why is Olimar considered so advantaged against Dedede? I admit, I struggled with the matchup for a long time (like, maybe 8 months?), but now I feel very comfortable with it, like, 50-50. What does olimar have that gives him an edge on Dedede? He can't actually camp D3 - if he's away from Dedede, we can just shbair in his direction constantly to kill any pikmin he lobbs at us. And if he's lobbing pikmin when we're close up, we can often just eat the damage since we're SO much heavier than Olimar. Also, when we're fighting up close, our grab is actually better than his - it's faster, and if you both grab at eachother at the same time Dedede's will win. And once you take away Olimar's ability to pikmin camp and grab with impunity, I don't see what Olimar has on Dedede. Oh - and our bair lets us REALLY take advantage of olimar's bad recovery. When he's off the edge, it seems so effective for us to just jump as high as time allows, and then choose a time to ffbair him as he makes his way back. No matter how obvious it seems. I feel like it's always the best option, no matter what. If Olimar dodges it, D3 can often try a rising bair or uair, with really good odds of connecting. And speaking of the edge, Olimar's desperate need to stay away from it sometimes makes the range of the stage that he can safely occupy prohibitively small, which makes mindgames easier for D3, since we always know where Olimar's going to be gravitating (towards the middle of the stage, I mean). So it's that much easier for us to put pressure on him and keep him close. I'm certainly not saying Olimar's disadvantaged vs D3, but I don't see what warrants so much confidence by Olimars in this MU. Honestly, it's my favorite. I'm about even with a really good Olimar in my region, and whenever I've faced Olimar at a tourney (not top Olimars, admittedly), I've won.
For starters here, Olimar can very well camp DDD. You fail to see the big picture - in fact, your entire post does. Okay, so let's take your situation for a minute. Olimar is away from DDD throwing Pikmin and DDD is SHing bair towards Olimar. Now, are you continuously jumping with bair or are you landing each time in between? Rhetorical question really, you lose either way. Idk what several month old Olimar you're playing, but most Olimars I know would take the hitstun of you killing the pikmin off for a free grab whenever you land (regardless of which way you were talking about). Better yet, there is no way you're going to be able to have a constant bair out in a way we cannot punish, I just mentioned grab because it sooo much free damage at low percent.
Disclaimer: This is an obvious note that you're playing BAAAAD Olimars.
The fact you only mention this for DDD's up close game against Olimar REALLY shows you lack experience against Olimar... like it's getting WORSE and WORSE the more you go on it seems. Also general game knowledge seems to be lacking.
No, your bair is obvious as ****. Maybe you're a wifi player... idk, in which case I could believe where you're coming from, but you mentioned going to tournaments. Again another indication you player really bad Olimars. I mean... I really could just tl;dr this part and say whistle>what you just said.
What is the desperate need to stay away from the edge? I live on the edge bro, give me max room to laugh at DDD hobbling like Christopher Reeve trying to get his way past an army of carrots just to get grabbed, fsmashed, or out maneuvered into doing it all over again.
Getting to play DDD in bracket is like watching porn. Both are free and take no thought to enjoy.
(1) What region (and state) do you live in?
My region is Central FL, but I've been in South Korea since July, so I admit I might not be up to date on the state of the art of Olimar.
I admit, I haven't happened to come up against an Olimar in tournaments often. The only times it's happened was twice at MLG Orlando. I don't know who the olimars were; like I said in my last post, I've never faced a top olimar in a tournament, and I can't find their names now because neither them nor I placed anywhere near the top 15 or so in that tournament, and as far as I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong, I might be looking in the wrong places) there's no list anymore of MLG Orlando winners except the top 15 or so. The Olimars must be really terrible though, since I beat them and all...including a three stock at one point :-P (jk - the three-stock was god-like, IMO.)
I don't do money matches often, but I beat fearless in the one money match set we played - best of three games, MLG rules, always my D3 vs. his Olimar. But I guess it doesn't count for much, since Fearless thought pretty highly of my Dedede in the Olimar MU...so he must not know anything about smash, like me, and must suck at this game. (lol jk Fearless.) (I beat Zazen in money matches, too, but I don't think you care about that.)
I'm continuously jumping. I stay as low to the ground as is possible, and ff whenever I feel safe, to then resume jumping, if the olimar doesn't approach.
Maybe our definition of "away from olimar" is different. I usually use this shbairing when the Olimar isn't close enough to run in and punish. If he is close enough to punish it, I'm going to have to be approaching Olimar instead (like you say), not just shbairing. I mentioned the shbairing strategy to fight camping only because some Dedede's wine that all olimar has to do to win is stand back and pikmin toss, which would never work.
Maybe our definition of "up close" is different. Just casually looking online, I pull up this video of CO18 vs Hrnut (a good olimar, as far as I know, in my region), where Hrnut uses pikmin toss up close countless times. Let's see, he does it at 2:20, 2:58, 3:12, 3:36, 3:38, 3:42, 4:25, and 4:31, just from a cursory glance at the match.
Uh...really? Really?
Since you don't respect me enough to take my opinion seriously, let me quote a much better player than me, who shares my mentality about pikmin in this MU:
It's not as bad as you make it out to be here. Dedede's doesn't need to get a kill move on Olimar, he's looking to gimp Olimar. If a kill move opportunity presents itself, all the better, but we don't need kill moves to win in this MU at all. (Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "kill move?") Again, let me quote a better player than me so that you take it more seriously:
What other time is grabbing relevant? Grabbing always happens up close. There's no such thing as a "long-range grab game." I'm confused.
Woops - you're right. (As a side note, I heard that there's a controller port that gives your grab the ability to always win in this situation. Is that true?) I had in mind the fact that olimar doesn't have grab armor like most (all?) other characters (only his pikmin do), which is a different idea entirely.
To quote a better player than me:
And back to your comments:
I'm imagining that Olimar is recovering from below the ledge. If D3 ffbairs and Olimar whistles, Dedede can continue his ff and be below Olimar, in which case Dedede will be safe from retaliation, since Olimar needs to tether recover at this point (since if Olimar were to ff his whistle to match D3, he'd be too low to recover).
I guess you're like a wizard at this game, then, because that seems like a really high-risk strategy given Olimar's recovery is horrible. The only reason I could see Olimar "living on the edge" is to deliberately expose himself to danger in order to be unpredictable, since Dedede probably won't be expecting Olimar to, for instance, roll edgeward after being dthrown. But there's no denying that it's dangerous for Olimar.
Lol @ Christopher Reeves reference! :-) I used to feel that way when I first started playing this MU.
I see where you're coming from, and I've heard this before. I agree in general, but I feel like there are situations where it's relevant to bring up mindgames in MU discussions. Character specific attributes determine how many options a player can employ in certain situation, which determine how successfully you can metagame in that situation. Wherever a character has restricted options because of their properties, I think it makes it harder to metagame in situations where those properties come into play, since it's harder to be unpredictable. For example, falco has a million approach options, so it's easier to craft a workable metagame into his approach than, say, dedede's approach game, which is often nonexistent, because of lack of options. And this goes back to what I said about Olimar - because of his bad recovery and bad aerials compared to Dedede, it's very important for him to mind the middle of the stage. This restricts his options, and thus makes him more predictable than, say, mk would be at the edge of the stage. So, like I said, mindgames are easier for D3 in situations where Olimar's need to avoid the edge becomes relevant.
It's been said that Olimar mains have it easy since nobody knows the MU. I don't know which region your from, but this could be true for your fights against D3, too. There aren't that many D3 mains anymore, and what few there are (notable exceptions being CO18 and, from what you say, Coney) that I know often give up on the Olimar MU.
I can't stop laughing at this picture
