Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread

[Zero]

FCUKING NEEDLES

caps

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Sheik is ZSS' worst match-up, even despite Falco. I'll elaborate later but me vs. Snakeee's Sheik felt really helpless.

This might be a good place to advertise my patented ZERO TO DEATH ON DUMB SHEIKS. CG->grabrelease on the edge->run-off fair.

 

[Nefarious B]

I haven't played this matchup against anyone worth mentioning so I wont be able to help with this one but I can see how this would be a tough matchup. Worse than falco though, I'm not really seeing it.

I suggest this set as a good one to check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPpyE-MN4Zk

So we know that we have fat combos on Sheik just like the other fast fallers. We have give or take ~75% if you land a dsmash at low percents. You can dsmash chain Sheik for about 50%, taking her to the ledge, and on the last dsmash f.roll and DA lock her to the other side for max damage. We also have a chain grab from 0-60ish.

What I would like to know is at what percents should we be watching out for ftilt strings, is there any way to DI out to lessen the impact, and what we can do to avoid them in the first place.

Random tidbits:

I believe if you mash out of a grab and cause an air release Sheik has a guaranteed DACUS on us so be careful.

Sheiks generally try and needle storm you during landing lag, be aware of it and mix up you landing times with plats, double jumps and down b.

 

[iLight]

55 : 45 zss favor

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

You can always down-b out of fair lock (which is good because we'd get ***** if we couldn't). THe problem is that down-b is very predictable and easily punished.

 

[Nefarious B]

Sheik and ZS seem very similar to me. Speed wise they're pretty similar (i think we have better but comparable aerial acceleration?). Frame wise they're pretty similar, except that Sheik has a grab. They both are light and have some difficulty getting kills, though I think we definitely win kill wise.

Sheik's run puts her low to the ground so that I don't think we can rising SH aerial her out of it. Sheik is tall enough for rising aerials to work OOS and as approaches against her.

Can we crouch under needles? I feel like that would help a lot vs her camping game. Also, is chain effective against our tether pull in?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

This match-up would be in sheiks favor if her boobies are as big as in the pic on the top here (left one) but they aren't.

thus i declare zss's advantage.

 

[NickRiddle]

Sheik is ZSS' worst match-up, even despite Falco. I'll elaborate later but me vs. Snakeee's Sheik felt really helpless.

This might be a good place to advertise my patented ZERO TO DEATH ON DUMB SHEIKS. CG->grabrelease on the edge->run-off fair.

Just to let you know, you always say you aren't good, and then you say that MUs are bad because you lose to better players who are using those characters. (Dark.Pch, and Snakeee.)
That does not mean Sheik is our hardest MU, or that Peach ***** us... just that the players are better than you.


I personally do not think that Sheik is that bad for us. Her SH is like a million times better than ours, and that puts much more pressure on us, but Sheik's recovery is pretty bad, and is at least free damage every time that she gets knocked off of the stage. Also, if we hit with a d-smash it goes on FOREVER! I know it's hard to hit Sheik with one, but it's something to notice.

 

[Zero]

Sheik doesn't have breasts. Sheik is a man.

8:2 ZSS favour IMO, although depends on personal preference

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

well... ZSS certainly dominates sheik.

 

[Zero]

hot, I should go play Sheik instead

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ill certainly smash with you then.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I certainly think it's close to even but I need to definitely get more matches with Mr. Riddle. Gonna be at VSA Tampa Riddle?

 

[NickRiddle]

I certainly think it's close to even but I need to definitely get more matches with Mr. Riddle. Gonna be at VSA Tampa Riddle?

Nope. Birthday party johns.
You gonna be at WATO Mr. Scary?

 

[FrozenFire13]

I believe if you mash out of a grab and cause an air release Sheik has a guaranteed DACUS on us so be careful.

You are full of correct. We can't tipper you, but we still hit. Which in ZSS's case doesn't really matter cuz she dies anyway.

 

[Virgman]

Even. when me an Mr.Riddle play he kills himself trying to gimp my bad recovery, hahaha. I don't think I've played enough of the match up to really say. In my head it seems even. sheik is definitely not worse than falco for ZSS.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Nope. Birthday party johns.
You gonna be at WATO Mr. Scary?

Doubtful, new job, must work johns..... hmmmmm.... when to play?

 

[NickRiddle]

Doubtful, new job, must work johns..... hmmmmm.... when to play?

GAMME? XD
Or the next Next Level LAN.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Oh jeez, I hate the ZSS/Sheik match-up for one main reason: Needles.
Other than that, spacing isn't too difficult.

ZSS's aerial game is limited. Ground game is somewhat difficult to manage with against Sheik. It's difficult to even aerial side+B pressure because of the needles. I'm probably just playing the MU wrong though. So I'll be looking forward to seeing the rest of this discussion.

 

[Fuujin]

I'd say 50-50, needles aren't as amazing as some of you make them seem unless you're standing there spamming her d smash hoping to get a hit.
Sheik has more damage on Samus yet Samus can kill Sheik better.
Both have tether recoveries but if you edge hog She's forced to vanish above stage and you can get up and punish it.
Samus is very light so this isn't one of those match ups where she struggles to kill but Samus has more killing power and a better recovery.

 

[shlike]

i've played light and crossjeremiah

i think the MU is slightly in zss's favor

and yes i'm too lazy to elaborate

i say either 55:45 or 6:4 zss

 

[Snakeee]

Sheik doesn't have breasts. Sheik is a man.

8:2 ZSS favour IMO, although depends on personal preference

Nooooo Sheik is cuute

...oh and Sheik's favor. 60/40 imo or even 65/35

 

[solecalibur]

Sheik doesn't have breasts. Sheik is a man.

8:2 ZSS favour IMO, although depends on personal preference

http://gannon-banned.com/#sheik
Im ashamed of you

I can see how this MU appears to be in Sheiks favor but once you play enough sheiks (aka LEARNING the MU ) it seems to be 55/45 ZSS

Pro-tip sheild dacus and camp as much as you can to avoid f-tilt hell

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Just to let you know, you always say you aren't good, and then you say that MUs are bad because you lose to better players who are using those characters. (Dark.Pch, and Snakeee.)
That does not mean Sheik is our hardest MU, or that Peach ***** us... just that the players are better than you.


I personally do not think that Sheik is that bad for us. Her SH is like a million times better than ours, and that puts much more pressure on us, but Sheik's recovery is pretty bad, and is at least free damage every time that she gets knocked off of the stage. Also, if we hit with a d-smash it goes on FOREVER! I know it's hard to hit Sheik with one, but it's something to notice.

I realize, but I'm looking at things objectively. I can go toe-to-toe with Snakeee's ZSS (even though I still usually lose) and even his Meta kind of, but I can't touch his Sheik.

 

[Darky-Sama]

55:45 in Sheik's favor IMO.

The needles are good because they practically force ZSS to approach. Rather it's charged or a single needle, it can interrupt just about all of ZSS's spaced options. Downsmash, Side+B, Neutral+B, practically demolished.

Less than a week ago, Crossjeremiah basically forced an approach from me with needles and punished via ftilt / shield grab when I got close. KOing ZSS with a smash attack isn't really difficult either, even for Sheik. It's ridiculous how much Sheik limits Zammy.

ZSS just has to play pretty on-edge the entire match. But the needles though, sheesh. I hate them more than Falco's lasers. At least you can crawl under the lasers.

 

[Rybaia]

Sheik doesn't have breasts. Sheik is a man.

8:2 ZSS favour IMO, although depends on personal preference

I agree with Zero.
It seems like he can predict my thoughts

 

[Tristan_win]

Unless there been some meta game development from Zss since pound I'm going to have to say the match up is still 55/45 to 60/40 in Sheik favor. I've use to main Zss, I've been playing against Zss fairly regularity since brawl was released, and have fought top level Zss users offline so I do know the match up. I didn't start out thinking Zss vs Sheik was 60/40 but close to even to maybe Zss favor this changed when I learned to better stab Zss build in weakness, plank until her items at the start are down to 1, and throw lot lots of needles.

I can't see how it can be in Zss favor, claiming it's even is a stretch now a days.

 

[NickRiddle]

I still think this MU is slightly in our favor, or at worst even. We lose on the ground, we go even in the air, but we destroy her off the stage. Plus, if Sheik wiffs a kill move, probably a smash-attack, we get grab combos or d-smash combos. Sheik also falls really ****ing fast, so combos are pretty eary. (Uair strings are silly. Predict one AD, and d-smash to forever.)

 

[Tristan_win]

NickRiddle just curious have you fought <3 or Scary recently? Both are know to be good with Sheik.

 

[NickRiddle]

NickRiddle just curious have you fought <3 or Scary recently? Both are know to be good with Sheik.

I beat <3 2-0 at Winterfest. Haven't played Scary recently.

 

[Snakeee]

Well guys, I'm using ZSS again. I'm weird I pretty much tri-main Peach, ZSS, and MK now I suppose >_>

 

[solecalibur]

Well guys, I'm using ZSS again. I'm weird I pretty much tri-main Peach, ZSS, and MK now I suppose >_>

Just dont be like the triforce we saw how they became =/

Out of curiosity what MU's would you avoid and use for your characters

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I beat <3 2-0 at Winterfest. Haven't played Scary recently.

We had the friendlies at winterfest before you sent me off to eat something. My best shot will be GAMME unless I can travel more.

After playing HRNut's ZSS I'm thinking even or barely giving the nudge to Sheik like 52-48 lol. Sheik has to get rid of those armor pieces quickly! Needles work so well in this MU and though we can Ftilt lock really well we can still string moves together nicely to rack damage. Riddle is right in the sense that we win on the ground but you win in the air. Also, it really isn't easy to gimp ZSS. Not at all. Tether hogging it good but it won't seal the deal.

 

[Snakeee]

Just dont be like the triforce we saw how they became =/

Out of curiosity what MU's would you avoid and use for your characters

Well, I'll just list what I use against the higher end characters for now.

Generally:

Peach: ICs, Diddy Kong, Wario

MK: Lucario, Falco, Peach, DDD, sometimes in MK dittos

ZSS: Snake, Marth (might use MK on him soon), Ike (not a top char but a top player uses him >_>), G&W, most MK's

 

[shlike]

Well, I'll just list what I use against the higher end characters for now.

Generally:

Peach: ICs, Diddy Kong, Wario

MK: Lucario, Falco, Peach, DDD, sometimes in MK dittos

ZSS: Snake, Marth (might use MK on him soon), Ike (not a top char but a top player uses him >_>), G&W, most MK's

peach for wario really???

i'm finding wario much easier nowadays, but then again i have no idea how the peach wario mu goes.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Peach owns Wario though.

 

[Code Lyon]

Fox vs. ZSS

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267392

LET'S GO!!

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Edit:
Lulz. i fail.

 

[NickRiddle]

...
....How does this even make remotely any sense here?

Unless that fox is secretly Sheik in disguise....

It's not like this is the ZSS match-up thread or anything.
Oh wait...

 

[Code Lyon]

Edit:
Lulz. i fail.

It's not like this is the ZSS match-up thread or anything.
Oh wait...

Nick owned you.