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Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread
- Thread starter TheZeroSuit
- Start date
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
GL blockin in the air
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
Kay was playin against my buds TL and uair def beats dair. I would def have to say its a 60:40 zss favor. Our aerial game outprioritizes his overall. Both ground games are questionable, but tl may be better because of more projectiles in his arsenal. I would still say Zss has this MU.
Realmz
Smash Apprentice
Toon Links ground game isn't horrible, its just average if you make the most of it. He has a good aerial game of course, and ZSS is gonna have to take him there honestly (where shes gonna have more trouble with his projectiles, mind you), because she doesn't have much of a ground game herself. Its true that ZSS can easily close the gap between her and TL, but unfourtunately she can't do too much once she's in his face aside from grab, DA and..jab. Arrows/Boomerangs screw up her grabs vs his wall of spam big time, and her DA can easily be predicted and punished considering its one of your only options to approach in that situation. Every character can powershield, but it only helps you in the match-up if you have good options out of it. All ZSS has is speed to make use of it, but its kind of an empty advantage against anyone with a better ground game than herself.
Its definitely not 60-40 ZSS, I doubt its even her advantage just because you beat your buddys TL, or if you're a TL rapist against the newb or mediocre ones. Unexperienced TLs are easy, but you'll really notice the difference against one that matters and knows the match-up. ZSS can punish, but thats hard if he starts abusing bombs and/or mind gaming you into trying to punish him. I don't know if you beat him in the air, but I do know he can - at the least - hold his own in the air vs any character, even if beat. I'd call this one even. Wait for some good Tinks to come in. =P
This is just my opinion though. Please correct me if I stated anything false or missed anything. Happy Halloween. =)
Its definitely not 60-40 ZSS, I doubt its even her advantage just because you beat your buddys TL, or if you're a TL rapist against the newb or mediocre ones. Unexperienced TLs are easy, but you'll really notice the difference against one that matters and knows the match-up. ZSS can punish, but thats hard if he starts abusing bombs and/or mind gaming you into trying to punish him. I don't know if you beat him in the air, but I do know he can - at the least - hold his own in the air vs any character, even if beat. I'd call this one even. Wait for some good Tinks to come in. =P
This is just my opinion though. Please correct me if I stated anything false or missed anything. Happy Halloween. =)
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
I get where your comin from but trust me my friends tink is no where near newbish. Her air game is better if spaced correctly. Tinks air game is pretty good especilly when spamming bombs. Even so i would say that tink can gimp her so i would have to take back my assumption that its in her advantage because he has gimped me a couple times. But i would say its slightly even a 55:45 advantage.
You forgot about ZSS's dtilt. ZSS can dtilt all day against TL until he goes in the air. Then she just dash attacks.
Toon Link does not have an advantage by any means.
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
My thoughts exactly. I feel zss has the better MU over all. I feel her air game ***** TL over all. Sorry but Zss is the better character.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Realmz do you go to any tourneys in norcal? I could actually use some Tlink experience since I haven't played any worth mentioning. I'm in school in San Diego, but I'm coming back to norcal for winter break and I plan on going to R3, if you're there some friendlies would be fun.
And also just a couple things to point out, ZSS is going to have more options than just DA jab at close range. Her dtilt has great range and is somewhat safe, and her utilt has deceiving horizontal range, as well as being 3 frames and doing 11 damage. DA combos into jab, utilt, dtilt, ftilt, and another DA at different percents, and the fact is that DA is a move that's pretty easy to land on tlink if the ZSS can PS. Fair and uair are also excellent moves for punishing the 1-2 oclock angles, which is where tlink likes to be most often when using projectiles and zair.
Also, Snakeee has played one of the best tlinks in the nation and beaten him, so your argument that the matchup is more even at higher levels of play doesn't seem to really hold up in practice
And also just a couple things to point out, ZSS is going to have more options than just DA jab at close range. Her dtilt has great range and is somewhat safe, and her utilt has deceiving horizontal range, as well as being 3 frames and doing 11 damage. DA combos into jab, utilt, dtilt, ftilt, and another DA at different percents, and the fact is that DA is a move that's pretty easy to land on tlink if the ZSS can PS. Fair and uair are also excellent moves for punishing the 1-2 oclock angles, which is where tlink likes to be most often when using projectiles and zair.
Also, Snakeee has played one of the best tlinks in the nation and beaten him, so your argument that the matchup is more even at higher levels of play doesn't seem to really hold up in practice
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
I feel this is even. You guys are underestimating TL a little imo. I admit I have a little bit of trouble against zss as TL but saying dash attack>anything TL has when hes in the air is pushing it. I see this as 55-45 either way or dead even. TL's proyectiles have a lot of versatility and different uses that when used by a high level player will make it VERY hard to approach. Even for speedy characters.
Good TLs almost NEVER use dair :/.
Look, it's a question of timing. The speed of dash attack gives ZSS the means to punish pretty much all of TL's aerial options, mostly on reaction.
Bair/arrow: Similar timing. TL does one while rising, one while falling. If ZSS is spaced right, and times it for the peak of TL's jump, dash attack easily comes out before the second hit of either attack can. Either that, or she trades hits.
Nair/Fair: Done while rising, but they have a bit of cool down. Stay out of range, and they're stupidly easy to punish on whiff with dash attack during the peak of TL's jump, and with a uair on block.
Zair: Done while falling, sometimes out of an airdodge. In both cases, zair is telegraphed by the fact that TL isn't really doing much as he rises. If he's rising with nothing, just dash attack at the peak. You'll beat out the zair outright if he doesn't airdodge, and you'll interrupt the zair with dash attack's meaty hits if he does.
Boomerang: Done while rising, but it has a long start-up with a visible animation. You can choose to punish or PS depending on your spacing, usually upon seeing what's coming out.
Bomb: TL's only good option in the air, but it's problematic because holding one inherently limits his options if he wants to cook the bomb. If you attack TL while he's holding a bomb, you'll usually hit the bomb, although TL will take the bomb damage in addition to the dash attack damage, putting you ahead in the damage game (which isn't something TL wants, given ZSS's better KOing game). Moreover, uncooked bombs are easy to use against TL and cooked ones are telegraphed.
TL's ground game is mostly beaten out by ZSS's dtilt, ftilt, nair and bair. Pretty much the only options he has here are JC bomb throw and JC usmash. But these all have to be punishments for whiffed moves.
How the match should play out:
TL spams projectiles, ZSS spams suit parts. Suit parts have better stage control properties than TL's projectiles, so ZSS usually will start out with a percent lead, forcing TL to approach. If she's impatient with just PSing all of the projectiles from long range, she can just approach to mid-range, where only bombs are safe on PS, then start pressuring with bair, nair, ftilt and dtilt. The moment TL does anything, she usually has the option to punish.
TL has the ability to put the hurt on ZSS. He has some effective frame traps, and some good set-ups with bombs and zair. No one's denying that, and it's why this isn't a hard counter, but ZSS has the advantage on approach, she KOs earlier, has more recovery options, and overall, can keep her punishment going longer. That's why the match-up should be 6/4.
Bair/arrow: Similar timing. TL does one while rising, one while falling. If ZSS is spaced right, and times it for the peak of TL's jump, dash attack easily comes out before the second hit of either attack can. Either that, or she trades hits.
Nair/Fair: Done while rising, but they have a bit of cool down. Stay out of range, and they're stupidly easy to punish on whiff with dash attack during the peak of TL's jump, and with a uair on block.
Zair: Done while falling, sometimes out of an airdodge. In both cases, zair is telegraphed by the fact that TL isn't really doing much as he rises. If he's rising with nothing, just dash attack at the peak. You'll beat out the zair outright if he doesn't airdodge, and you'll interrupt the zair with dash attack's meaty hits if he does.
Boomerang: Done while rising, but it has a long start-up with a visible animation. You can choose to punish or PS depending on your spacing, usually upon seeing what's coming out.
Bomb: TL's only good option in the air, but it's problematic because holding one inherently limits his options if he wants to cook the bomb. If you attack TL while he's holding a bomb, you'll usually hit the bomb, although TL will take the bomb damage in addition to the dash attack damage, putting you ahead in the damage game (which isn't something TL wants, given ZSS's better KOing game). Moreover, uncooked bombs are easy to use against TL and cooked ones are telegraphed.
TL's ground game is mostly beaten out by ZSS's dtilt, ftilt, nair and bair. Pretty much the only options he has here are JC bomb throw and JC usmash. But these all have to be punishments for whiffed moves.
How the match should play out:
TL spams projectiles, ZSS spams suit parts. Suit parts have better stage control properties than TL's projectiles, so ZSS usually will start out with a percent lead, forcing TL to approach. If she's impatient with just PSing all of the projectiles from long range, she can just approach to mid-range, where only bombs are safe on PS, then start pressuring with bair, nair, ftilt and dtilt. The moment TL does anything, she usually has the option to punish.
TL has the ability to put the hurt on ZSS. He has some effective frame traps, and some good set-ups with bombs and zair. No one's denying that, and it's why this isn't a hard counter, but ZSS has the advantage on approach, she KOs earlier, has more recovery options, and overall, can keep her punishment going longer. That's why the match-up should be 6/4.
This argument is flawed. One person beating another one doesn't make the MU easier. And who's this "one of the best TLs in the nation"? As far as I know, half the people in SWF who go to offline tourneys have been called "one of the best mainers around"... Doesn't mean that they're really the best, it just means that they're noticeable.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Read what I said again, and read what I was responding to. I never said one person makes the matchup, I was responding to when someone said that at the high end of the meta game tlinks do better against ZSS, which just isn't true if we look to top players for examples of the top of the metagame, which is why I brought up Snakeee and (I think Dazwa is right) Jash.
shlike
Smash Ace
i've beaten hyro and jerm (theyve beaten me too) in mm's / seriouslies and imo momentum has a huge role this MU
it really felt like whoever won the first stock won the match
it really felt like whoever won the first stock won the match
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
So its agreed then on zss advantage overall right?
shlike
Smash Ace
at best i think its 55:45 zss
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
Sounds about right. I just think its her advantage over all, 55:45.
noradseven
Smash Lord
Yeah this is what I would say with my experience in this match.
Realmz
Smash Apprentice
Ah, I don't really have much time on my hands to go to tournaments at the moment, but if I ever get the chance to participate in one, I'll definitely announce it.
Oh? Yeah, I figured I was leaving out some of her possible options. He beat Jash, huh? Good sh*t, Snakeee. All in all, I think its a bit of an uncommon match-up, so alot of them probably have little experience with it, and vice versa (Aside from Snakeee and Jash to an extent, I suppose). 55-45 does seem to be about what results have shown it thus far, so I guess we can all agree on it?
Just as a side note: Tinks might do better if they spam less and take her upclose in this match-up, since he'll be punished much less, can beat her on the ground (I'm sure they can figure out how to handle d-tilt better if they're not busy spamming in hyper mode), and holds his own but likely beaten in the air. Could we dicuss both characters options if the Tink takes the fight to that level?
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
I'm going to write this up and move on but first we haven't discussed stage bans and CPs. I'm thinking we'd want small stages with high vertical blastzones.
IMO: Smashville, BF, and Lylat>FD and Yoshis
CPs: BF, Lylat, RC
Bans: Halberd, FD
IMO: Smashville, BF, and Lylat>FD and Yoshis
CPs: BF, Lylat, RC
Bans: Halberd, FD
solecalibur
Smash Master
never seen halberd but I agree with Neutrals also what match up do we plan on talking about next ....
I'd ban FD anyway. I think its a worse stage for this matchup and more likely to be picked.
We should discuss either Falco or MK next. Both need a rediscussion. MK because of how common and Falco because its the matchup we have the most problems with.
We should discuss either Falco or MK next. Both need a rediscussion. MK because of how common and Falco because its the matchup we have the most problems with.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Before rediscussing I think we should hit the last of the viable characters: Wolf, Peach, Sheik, Wigi, Fox, and Pit. Peach and pit boards recently discussed us so those should be really quick, and we can fly through the others. The only issue is that I'm pretty busy and will be until Thanksgiving.
If someone can write up the Toon link synopsis I can link it to the front page and start a new discussion, but realistically I don't see myself being able to do much more than update this thread for the next two weeks
If someone can write up the Toon link synopsis I can link it to the front page and start a new discussion, but realistically I don't see myself being able to do much more than update this thread for the next two weeks
noradseven
Smash Lord
lets see
Wolf...evenish
Peach...evenish slight favor us I think
sheik...bad
wigi...evenish slight favor wigi
fox...bad *no d-smash loop doesn't matter no your wrong it will never land.
Pit...bad
whelp done there.
Well fox might not be so bad, IDK its a weird match that you need alot of exp in to figure out.
shlike
Smash Ace
I agree with wolf and peach, but imo sheik is even or closer to our side we kill her alot earlier than she kills us, and even though you probably know this you can down-b out ftilt (can be doen after the first one depending on fast how you react) so that elimates her ability to rack up 30-50% in 5 seconds, uair wrecks sheik (as it does the entire cast).
luigi- I would say dead even or slightly in our favor
fox - its even at worst just dont get usmashed lol
Pit- even/slightly in zss's favor .
too lazy to do actual write ups.
mountain_tiger
Smash Champion
Peach - 55:45 or 60:40 (not sure which)
Sheik - 45:55
Luigi - 50:50
As for the others, I don't think I have enough experience toformulate a valdi opinion.
Sheik - 45:55
Luigi - 50:50
As for the others, I don't think I have enough experience toformulate a valdi opinion.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
K if you're gonna post a ratio, first off please have some matchup xp to cite, second give me like a paragraph or so of convincing.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
I have enough Peach experience to write a book.
First, know that Peach can own your shield with her air game. ZSS sucks in-shield and Peach owns at owning shields, so your goal should be to not shieldoften. Also, don't roll or spot dodge very often, cause Peach destroys that crap, especially ZSS' ****ty back roll. Just don't do it. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
In the neutral position, Peach wins. Side-b cannot be used to camp because Peach can powershield and grab, and not only that, but powershield and fair you. In the air, side-b isn't safe either because it can be dodged or avoided and fair'd. Side-b is not a safe camping or spacing tool in this matchup.
Back air is not safe, either, not completely. It's a good spacing tool but if you don't hit, you'll get PS->grabbed. Peach's grab is slow at the back end but the range is pretty good, so I will reiterate: don't spam back air to space. You'll get punished.
Your best tools vs Peach are Neutral Air, Up smash, up air, and down smash. Peach's grab has 22 frames of ending lag, so it's pretty easy to punish a missed grab with down smash. Actually, a lot of Peach's moves have back-loaded lag on them, making dsmash punishes easier than in a lot of other match-ups. As usual though don't spam it.
Neutral air is good because while it doesn't beat Peach's dair clean, it hits at the perfect angle to knock her out of the float. Contrary to popular belief, the top half of peach's body is vulnerable during her dair and nair has the perfect angle to kill it. Snakeee would probably say to just uair it instead.
However, good Peach's won't miss with dair. It's a punishing move and they won't typically just throw it out to try to catch us. Instead they will wait until you are in a weird spot or bad position and then do it, making beating the move impossible. Up air doesn't beat it clean either; it wins, but it's such a tight space that it isn't all that practical without hours of practice. You have to know Peach's dair better than you know your own uair. The hitbubbles on that attack are HUGE, uair's only saving grace is that you don't have much actual hurtbox. Though uair does marginally beat dair, it is a risk you are taking.
Beacuse dair is relatively safe, Peach will want to jump (NOT float, good Peach players do not spam float) quite a bit. While dair isn't beaten by our upsmash, it is so fast that it's easy to catch Peach in it, and it's a great move in this match-up, even better than uair sometimes.
Bair is really nasty, btw. It comes out on frame 6, so it's just barely faster tahn our bair. Uair beats it but again, bair is a punisher and not often used as an approach. You will probably get hit with this attack a lot.
In review, kind of:
1. Peach is laggy on the back end of her moves, so this is a bait and punish match. Punish with grabs and dsmash, but don't screw up.
2. Peach's air game is solid and reliable. Punish predictable aerial activity with upsmash, but for dair, try a uair or nair instead.
3. Do not roll or spot dodge. Instead, try to simply run away or jab.
4. Uptilt does not beat dair. I don't know who started that rumor, but it isn't true. If you want to beat dair, practice your SH uairs and falling uairs and be really ****ing good at them.
5. Turnips are pretty easy to breach. They are slow and easily caught. However, if Peach pulls a turnip you can actually down-b kick her before the animation ends, if you have good reflexes, lol.
6. Peach edgeguards ZSS really well. "But you can down-b the turnips!" Yes, but no. Save your second jump for your recovery and aim for ledges. Do not land on the stage, and don't try to attack her when landing.
7. Peach is easily juggled. This means a lot of free damage when you get her into the air. Getting her into the air is really hard though, if you're playing anyone good. Your opportunities will come from outsmarting Peach, because you have no character advantage that you can exploit.
First, know that Peach can own your shield with her air game. ZSS sucks in-shield and Peach owns at owning shields, so your goal should be to not shieldoften. Also, don't roll or spot dodge very often, cause Peach destroys that crap, especially ZSS' ****ty back roll. Just don't do it. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
In the neutral position, Peach wins. Side-b cannot be used to camp because Peach can powershield and grab, and not only that, but powershield and fair you. In the air, side-b isn't safe either because it can be dodged or avoided and fair'd. Side-b is not a safe camping or spacing tool in this matchup.
Back air is not safe, either, not completely. It's a good spacing tool but if you don't hit, you'll get PS->grabbed. Peach's grab is slow at the back end but the range is pretty good, so I will reiterate: don't spam back air to space. You'll get punished.
Your best tools vs Peach are Neutral Air, Up smash, up air, and down smash. Peach's grab has 22 frames of ending lag, so it's pretty easy to punish a missed grab with down smash. Actually, a lot of Peach's moves have back-loaded lag on them, making dsmash punishes easier than in a lot of other match-ups. As usual though don't spam it.
Neutral air is good because while it doesn't beat Peach's dair clean, it hits at the perfect angle to knock her out of the float. Contrary to popular belief, the top half of peach's body is vulnerable during her dair and nair has the perfect angle to kill it. Snakeee would probably say to just uair it instead.
However, good Peach's won't miss with dair. It's a punishing move and they won't typically just throw it out to try to catch us. Instead they will wait until you are in a weird spot or bad position and then do it, making beating the move impossible. Up air doesn't beat it clean either; it wins, but it's such a tight space that it isn't all that practical without hours of practice. You have to know Peach's dair better than you know your own uair. The hitbubbles on that attack are HUGE, uair's only saving grace is that you don't have much actual hurtbox. Though uair does marginally beat dair, it is a risk you are taking.
Beacuse dair is relatively safe, Peach will want to jump (NOT float, good Peach players do not spam float) quite a bit. While dair isn't beaten by our upsmash, it is so fast that it's easy to catch Peach in it, and it's a great move in this match-up, even better than uair sometimes.
Bair is really nasty, btw. It comes out on frame 6, so it's just barely faster tahn our bair. Uair beats it but again, bair is a punisher and not often used as an approach. You will probably get hit with this attack a lot.
In review, kind of:
1. Peach is laggy on the back end of her moves, so this is a bait and punish match. Punish with grabs and dsmash, but don't screw up.
2. Peach's air game is solid and reliable. Punish predictable aerial activity with upsmash, but for dair, try a uair or nair instead.
3. Do not roll or spot dodge. Instead, try to simply run away or jab.
4. Uptilt does not beat dair. I don't know who started that rumor, but it isn't true. If you want to beat dair, practice your SH uairs and falling uairs and be really ****ing good at them.
5. Turnips are pretty easy to breach. They are slow and easily caught. However, if Peach pulls a turnip you can actually down-b kick her before the animation ends, if you have good reflexes, lol.
6. Peach edgeguards ZSS really well. "But you can down-b the turnips!" Yes, but no. Save your second jump for your recovery and aim for ledges. Do not land on the stage, and don't try to attack her when landing.
7. Peach is easily juggled. This means a lot of free damage when you get her into the air. Getting her into the air is really hard though, if you're playing anyone good. Your opportunities will come from outsmarting Peach, because you have no character advantage that you can exploit.
How many frames is fair?
Also worth noting is that Peach can't really airdodge anything. Her airdodge doesn't have that many invulnerability frames and she can't act out of it soon enough.
Why would ZSS' back roll be a problem? You can always pivot forward roll.
And yeah don't try to shield too much. If you play too defensive in this match it won't end up good.
Peach is a bit limited in her recovery options. Trying to recover low can be risky because Peach gets very little lift from her second jump. High recovery is somewhat risky because she can't airdodge an incoming attack. She has to come at you facing front and her Fair is too slow to use for defense while Nair lacks range.
I haven't had that much trouble recovering against Peach. You just have to be *very* careful with how get back from the ledge or you will likely get faired. And turnips can hit you when you're pulling yourself to the edge but its not that bad.
I believe she can not PS a jab combo?
Also worth noting is that Peach can't really airdodge anything. Her airdodge doesn't have that many invulnerability frames and she can't act out of it soon enough.
Why would ZSS' back roll be a problem? You can always pivot forward roll.
And yeah don't try to shield too much. If you play too defensive in this match it won't end up good.
Peach is a bit limited in her recovery options. Trying to recover low can be risky because Peach gets very little lift from her second jump. High recovery is somewhat risky because she can't airdodge an incoming attack. She has to come at you facing front and her Fair is too slow to use for defense while Nair lacks range.
I haven't had that much trouble recovering against Peach. You just have to be *very* careful with how get back from the ledge or you will likely get faired. And turnips can hit you when you're pulling yourself to the edge but its not that bad.
I believe she can not PS a jab combo?
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
mountain_tiger
Smash Champion
Peach vs ZSS is one of my most-played matchups from both sides. The interesting thing about this MU is that both characters potentially **** each other if they can get them into the right position. The classic fire vs ice matchup.
Once the armor pieces have disappeared, turnips can be a real chore to get around. It's doable by all means, but you have to be creative with how you approach her. They can't really be punished, and catching it isn't recommended since your only options are special moves and throwing it away (Peach can also do floated aerials).
One situation you definitely DON'T want to be in is stuck inside your shield. Peach can shield pressure really well with Dair, and ZSS can't really attack her ooS if she spaces it right. She can float away before you can Uair or UTilt. If she misspaces a Dair, you can punish with USmash or Uair, though be aware that good Peaches won't do that too often. Fair is good for shield pressuring too since it's safe on block.
I'm not sure how our Bair and her Fair compare in range (I think Bair outranges it, but I'm not totally sure on that), but our Bair is twice as fast and has more knockback, so in general Bair wins out. Just thought that little comparison might help.
As a general rule, Peach wins at close-range, whereas we win at mid-range. Her jab is like a buffed version of ours, and she has various good short-range moves to use. At mid-range, we win considerably, because her only real options are turnips and Peach Bomber (lol). So they're going to be trying to close in a lot, which you can then predict and punish.
The critical attribute of this MU is the fact that ZSS can juggle Peach like crazy if she manages to get her in the air. Uair is amazing here. If you space it right, she can't really do anything about it. She can try to Dair, but it's slower than Uair and shouldn't beat us out if we space it right. Airdodging is a no-no due to the poor invincibility frames to duration ratio (invincible 16 frames out of 49). She'll want to get back to the ground ASAP, but because she falls really slowly you can get a LOT of damage if you play it right.
In terms of who kills when, ZSS wins slightly. ZSS is very light, but Peach can't kill too well, and in general you should be able to live to about 150% on average with good DI. Meanwhile, you can usually kill her at about 120-130% with Bair, vertical chasing or Plasma Whip. Neither of them will be gimping each other that often.
There's more to it than that, but those are the main things worth knowing. It's slightly in ZSS' favour IMO, if only because of the juggling. Basically, try not to get stuck in your shield, watch out for turnips, get her into the air, juggle her a lot, make sure to space well and stay out of close range whenever possible.
Once the armor pieces have disappeared, turnips can be a real chore to get around. It's doable by all means, but you have to be creative with how you approach her. They can't really be punished, and catching it isn't recommended since your only options are special moves and throwing it away (Peach can also do floated aerials).
One situation you definitely DON'T want to be in is stuck inside your shield. Peach can shield pressure really well with Dair, and ZSS can't really attack her ooS if she spaces it right. She can float away before you can Uair or UTilt. If she misspaces a Dair, you can punish with USmash or Uair, though be aware that good Peaches won't do that too often. Fair is good for shield pressuring too since it's safe on block.
I'm not sure how our Bair and her Fair compare in range (I think Bair outranges it, but I'm not totally sure on that), but our Bair is twice as fast and has more knockback, so in general Bair wins out. Just thought that little comparison might help.
As a general rule, Peach wins at close-range, whereas we win at mid-range. Her jab is like a buffed version of ours, and she has various good short-range moves to use. At mid-range, we win considerably, because her only real options are turnips and Peach Bomber (lol). So they're going to be trying to close in a lot, which you can then predict and punish.
The critical attribute of this MU is the fact that ZSS can juggle Peach like crazy if she manages to get her in the air. Uair is amazing here. If you space it right, she can't really do anything about it. She can try to Dair, but it's slower than Uair and shouldn't beat us out if we space it right. Airdodging is a no-no due to the poor invincibility frames to duration ratio (invincible 16 frames out of 49). She'll want to get back to the ground ASAP, but because she falls really slowly you can get a LOT of damage if you play it right.
In terms of who kills when, ZSS wins slightly. ZSS is very light, but Peach can't kill too well, and in general you should be able to live to about 150% on average with good DI. Meanwhile, you can usually kill her at about 120-130% with Bair, vertical chasing or Plasma Whip. Neither of them will be gimping each other that often.
There's more to it than that, but those are the main things worth knowing. It's slightly in ZSS' favour IMO, if only because of the juggling. Basically, try not to get stuck in your shield, watch out for turnips, get her into the air, juggle her a lot, make sure to space well and stay out of close range whenever possible.
Obviously you pivot roll when you're already in your shield.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Peach can absolutely perfect shield our jab combo.
Bair's disjoint isn't big enough for our bair to beat Peach's dair, so it will get beaten every time.
Yes, you can live to 150% but the first 50-60% from Peach is like impossible to avoid. Peach can do some serious damage to ZSS in the early percents of a match, making her problems killing nearly negligible. The -reason- Peach can't kill is because the KBG on her attacks is low, which means she can combo clear into the 60-70% range.
Ftilt is a good mid-range in this match-up because it can knock her out of float sometimes before dair starts. But, turnips beat any mid-range option ZSS has.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
If peach can abuse DDDs shield game, I can't imagine what she would do to ZSS What are your thoughts on Peach's shield pressure game against ZSS?
What are your thoughts on Peach's shield pressure game against ZSS?
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Like I said in my other post, my advice is to only shield when you know which move is coming. If she's going to dair you, run away or try to break it with a uair or nair but don't shield, she can break your shield in 2-3 dairs.
Also, good Peach players will dair you from above, not from the side, so you can't jab out.
Also, good Peach players will dair you from above, not from the side, so you can't jab out.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
My question, does Up b beat her dair? IMO that's a make or break in our juggle game. Like sfp said, it's pretty hard to space around peach's dair, but if up b can go through it that means we can reliably counter her dair option. That leaves her with avoiding us horizontally, which will be hard for her, or countering, which has a tell tale sound that makes it easy to avoid, or she can do her lusly airdodge
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Up+b is cancelled when it comes in contact with her dair.
However, it is a lot easier to space uair on her dair when you're juggling Peach, because you can easily put pressure on her whereas on the ground and at close-to-mid-range, Peach is pressuring you pretty much nonstop. It's a pretty big factor. You can bait the dair and then punish the end of it in the air, for instance, where as on the ground, you can't do that. I mean, of course uair still beats Peach's dair, and it's easier to space in the air.