Official Zelda Power Rankings (refer to new thread above)

[Bandit]

I wasn't suggesting kicking out Shiek/Zelda users. If you main them both, then you should be in as well.

I'm simply saying you should stick to the people who actually use the character for tournaments. It's impossible to gauge how good Ninjalink or Mikey is doing with her if their placings are from using other characters.

-----

ROB power rankings were put together by a friend of mine, and they were pretty acceptable.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=250707

In theirs, Overswarm and Ninjalink are both worthy of the top 10 power rankings, but they don't main the character. They are still recognized, but they are not included.

Also, it was a public voting process.

 

[GreyFox86]

We can use that format to do ours...just won't be as big as theirs.

Also I'm not wanting to make it a Zelda only. I only suggested if you want to do a Zelda only then it won't be as big as the list for Zelda/Sheik, which I think is a good idea to have cause technically shes all the same person. =/

 

[Bandit]

Sounds good to me.

 

[AzNfinesse]

what we could do is possibly have two separate power rankings: one with all-zelda users and one with zelda/sheik users. Just a suggestion i guess....

 

[GreyFox86]

That would kinda be unfair but truth.

However there are very few that do main main her in Tourney

DM
Me
AzNfinesse
Riot
ScaryLB59
Silent Rain (once he starts going to tourneys)

I say just add everyone and if you want make a separate one for the main mains. =/

@AzN: That's all of the Pure Zelda's in tourney play. I have a tourney this weekend but I'm going as a TO so if you guys do this, which i hope you do, then set me at the bottom of the list.

 

[sniperworm]

Yea, I do use a lot of Sheik but her and Zelda are my only main. No secondaries at all lol.

To me, I only play it to change up my tempo, but if it is strictly pure Zelda then I can understand. That knocks out me, Mars, and Sniperworm I believe iirc.

Haha, yeah, it's been a while since I went pure Zelda. It's been all Zelda/Sheik for a while now. I think the last time I did that was in 2008...

Anyway, Zelda/Sheik FTW. Ya'll have a nice day.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea, I do use a lot of Sheik but her and Zelda are my only main. No secondaries at all lol.

To me, I only play it to change up my tempo, but if it is strictly pure Zelda then I can understand. That knocks out me, Mars, and Sniperworm I believe iirc.

Same with me, i've never used a different character other than Sheik/Zelda even in doubles in tournament ever.

I can see why pure Zelda mains should get priority in this though, although Scary has a really good Zelda so putting someone over him just because they ONLY play Zelda while his Zelda is actually better and he uses her in tournaments wouldn't really make much sense.

 

[KayLo!]

The problem is that there's no way to determine if his Zelda is "better" purely by tournament placement unless he went all Zelda for that entire tournament.

If he switched within matches, went Sheik for half or more of his matches, etc., you could only count the individual matches where he went all Zelda. Which may not be nearly as impressive or do his skill with Zelda full justice.

 

[Bandit]

Here's something to look at:

- Who has the player beaten in tournmanent?
- How have they placed in singles? Doubles?
- Videos would be helpful for all nominees

It's all opinion, but we know who the tournament players are, so we could narrow down a list. Sheik/Zelda users should be included. The only ones I'd discourage are the non-mains who use Zelda on the side or for scrub matches.

 

[AzNfinesse]

Here's something to look at:

- Who has the player beaten in tournmanent?
- How have they placed in singles? Doubles?
- Videos would be helpful for all nominees

It's all opinion, but we know who the tournament players are, so we could narrow down a list. Sheik/Zelda users should be included. The only ones I'd discourage are the non-mains who use Zelda on the side or for scrub matches.

problem with that is the zelda/sheik players would naturally beat different (and probably) better people due to either matchup issues or whatever. And in terms of placing, you have to consider: did they go all zelda that tournament? or did they use a counterpick alt?

another issue that's concerning me is that putting a pure zelda and a zelda/sheik in the same list is weird. it's cool to have them on the same list, but it would also be cool if we did a separate list for the zelda/sheik players. so what we would do is look at all the zelda/sheik player's zelda and rank them based purely on zelda only and their playstyle (we can't obviously look at their tournament placings because that is drastically affected by the sheik factor). then, we can look at the zelda/sheik players in their entirity.

 

[KayLo!]

The only ones I'd discourage are the non-mains who use Zelda on the side or for scrub matches.

>=(

Jkjk, I agree.

 

[Bandit]

problem with that is the zelda/sheik players would naturally beat different (and probably) better people due to either matchup issues or whatever. And in terms of placing, you have to consider: did they go all zelda that tournament? or did they use a counterpick alt?

another issue that's concerning me is that putting a pure zelda and a zelda/sheik in the same list is weird. it's cool to have them on the same list, but it would also be cool if we did a separate list for the zelda/sheik players. so what we would do is look at all the zelda/sheik player's zelda and rank them based purely on zelda only and their playstyle (we can't obviously look at their tournament placings because that is drastically affected by the sheik factor). then, we can look at the zelda/sheik players in their entirity.

The biggest hurdle with that is we only have like 15 tournament players total (rough estimate) and most of them are Zelda/Sheik.

If we're doing this democratically, we might as well compile the list of tournament Zelda & Zelda/Sheik users, so we know what we are dealing with.

WiFi or Casual Zeldas are impossible to really judge unfortunately.

@KayLo:

:bandit:

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Irregardless of how this list is finalized, it'll be really neat to make friendly goals and perhaps it could even attract some new blood since there really wouldn't be many players making the list.

I dunno; some silly logic of mine.

 

[GreyFox86]

This is why I suggested we make two list for the Zelda boards. One can be for the Zelda boards, Zelda Tourney Mains. The other can cross between both Zelda and Sheik if the Sheik boards do cross over and play Zelda like Mars, Scary, Sniper, and others.

With the other players who use Zelda can be listed as Honorable mentions if they place really well during tourney using Zelda as a side. KLO is a perfect example for that.

Please stop me if I'm wrong about this.

I know having a Tourney Zelda list only will be really small, but with so many players picking her up as a side and others being casual, it gets really complicated with the number of players who actually go to tourneys as Pure Zelda.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

The fact of the manner is, the pure Zelda list is going to be small no matter how you look at it. If you don't mind looking at a small list than there won't be a problem at all. Also, the list won't really grow too much even if you include the Zelda/Sheik hybrids.

 

[zeldspazz]

Theres like 1 pure Zelda that posts here guys, and thats Riot. I dont even know if he uses a secondary sometimes ;_;

 

[GreyFox86]

Theres like 1 pure Zelda that posts here guys, and thats Riot. I dont even know if he uses a secondary sometimes ;_;

This isn't about Pure Zelda's posting here. It's about Pure Zelda's doing well/decent in tourneys.

@Scary: This is true. I think it could work but a Hybrid list would still be good to have around.

 

[zeldspazz]

This isn't about Pure Zelda's posting here. It's about Pure Zelda's doing well/decent in tourneys.

@Scary: This is true. I think it could work but a Hybrid list would still be good to have around.

Looking at the list right now there is only 1 person up there I havent seen post on SWF. Who else is a pure tourney Zelda who doesnt post?

 

[Bandit]

Theres like 1 pure Zelda that posts here guys, and thats Riot. I dont even know if he uses a secondary sometimes ;_;

No love spazz? Zelda only right here.

I only use Sheik in the middle of a match if I am really having a tough time mounting any offense which is not often.

Course, I play brawl+, but I was Zelda only in brawl too.

:bandit:

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I know this can work but first we're gonna have to find a way to either work around the fact that there are so few of us even including the hybrids. If we make a pure Zelda list, it'll be very small but also very accurate. This is the same with the hybrid list. The problem lies in looking at an overall, which truthfully would be impossible because a Player such as myself would have skewed results due to the plus of me having Sheik. A ranking is simple to setup but trying to make an overall ranking would be difficult at best.

-Vids would certainly help but not all of us can record (I know I can't lol).
-MMs will help
-If you are a hybrid, then you need to specify when you went Zelda or how much Zelda was used.

We are kinda making this all too difficult and way to serious. Don't get me wrong, I want to be at the top just like anyone but we should be doing this for the community. Have everyone look at this a reason to get out to tourneys and get noticed. Some friendly competition amongst us all.

 

[GodAtHand]

Sometimes guys... I use Sheik for a few seconds because I was trying to do something fancy and accidentally down B'd.... sorry! >_<

 

[KayLo!]

I was trying to do something fancy and accidentally down B'd.... sorry! >_<

Lol. I used to accidentally transform when I first picked up Zelda...... I was so used to always playing Pikachu nonstop, I would forget who I was and try to thunder. @.@

Yeah, I'm ********. Muscle memory ftl. Only happened ~3 times, though, and I haven't done it in over half a year.

I still nair OOS way too much, though, which is another Pika habit. And I don't jab enough.

In fact, this gives me an idea for a thread........

EDIT: Nvm, scrapped it. ><

 

[Bandit]

You should actually Bair/Fair OoS.

I don't, but it is something I am trying to work into my game. One of Ryoko's trademarks is powershield to LK. I am not proficient in this technique.

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On topic:

Let's list the tournament Zelda & Zelda/Sheik users (I vote for one list).

We know about Riot and Scary but who else?

 

[Kataefi]

I agree bandit! With all your points! I do like Nair OoS though!

Hmmm... speaking of strictly straight Zeldas. There's

- Riot
- DM
- Veggi
- Jujux
- AzN

- I believe Greyfox is returning to Zelda
- Zeldspazz might have something this month
- I'm not 100% mikey uses Zelda in tourney but he can most certainly clarify this
- Dark peach... how much do you use zelda in your MMs? And do you use straight zelda in tourneys at all?

Maos / ST, I don't really see them post much here.

What about past tourney goers? Or ones who have sort of retired? How does judging people work? If someone posts an amazing video of zelda vs ____ and both opponents are really good, and they're not a frequent tourney goer... then how do we factor that in? I say this because of players like Ryoko (who we all know has a beastly zelda) that may not necessarily post any of their results anywhere, if at all.

Then of course there's the retired who might consider coming back - how would we factor that in?

We could do something similar to how DMG runs the best video thread over at tactical... but based on our track record that's open to a lot of problems.

This post is all jumbled because I was thinking ideas and typing at the same time lol so read with care =)

 

[KayLo!]

If you're going to judge by anything other than straight tournament results, I'd suggest not calling it "power rankings" to avoid leading people on.

The way I see it, this is shaping up to be a very subjective list. Calling it power rankings is both misleading and just.... not correct, considering it'll be nothing like real state/character power rankings.

 

[Bandit]

*One note before I get started. When I say Zeldas I mean both Zelda and Zelda/Sheik. I don't feel like (nor do I feel the need) to type both*

- Retired players should not be considered
- Players who are not using her for the majority of tournaments (the serious matches) should not be considered
- Ryoko is a Brawl+ player, and I don't know if he plays Brawl anymore (he hasn't posted on the boards in over a month... it was a big thing on the B+ boards for awhile)
- One video of you vs someone shouldn't be your body of work
- Tournament results should be the main reasoning
- Any Zeldas who don't post here but are known players should be included

@KayLo - even power rankings are subjective. Comparing different regions and strength of opponents is subjective.

In reality, the best Zeldas are probably DM, Ninjalink, and other people who play her on the side but don't main her. We can see in their videos against quality opponents that they are superior, but I don't think that's what we are seeking.

We are looking for current tournament representation and who is doing it the best. The videos, opponents, strength of schedule (sounds like the BCS...) are all just added in to compare players who don't play in the same region.

An example of evaluation (all numbers and stats are made up):

AzN consistently gets top 10 at tournies of 25 people. Of those 25, only 2 are consistent top players at major tournaments.

I consistently get 17th at tournies of 40 people. Of those 40, 10-12 are consistent top players at major tournaments.

From that, you can say that I have a tougher region and initially rank my 17ths with his top 10's. Then you look at who we played, who we beat and see if you can separate us any. Let's say I have a few wins over the notables while he doesn't. I would then have the edge with videos of our Zeldas as the last evidence for rank.

In the end, I get listed above AzN.

Now, AzN goes to a major tournament and places well while I don't make it out of pools at my own major tournament. It would shift things because major tournaments are comparable.

-----

Let the results show for themselves, then get into the details.

-----

If I can get a list of tournament Zeldas then I will gladly compile tournament results (aside from the ones we already have in the tournament results thread).

:bandit:

 

[KayLo!]

@KayLo - even power rankings are subjective. Comparing different regions and strength of opponents is subjective.

That's why I said "very subjective." x.o

Anyways, I was referring to the fact that Kata was bringing up things like using videos and past tourney goers -- things that don't really give a concrete idea of how good someone is at this current point in time. Even throwing Zelda/Sheik players in lessens the accuracy of the list by a bit.

Tournament results and mms (preferably $3+) are all that should matter.

 

[Bandit]

I agree with everything you said.

It is hard to find a Zelda who doesn't use Sheik for something. I hate Sheik. I hate playing with Sheik. I hate Sheik's little ninja poses. I still use Sheik at times my Zelda is getting shut out mid-match.

If someone is starting as Sheik and finishing as Zelda, I would actually say they are more Sheik mains than Zelda mains. That is simply opinion and would lessen the accuracy of the rankings (my opinion I guess is now on a Zelda only list).

-----

Why don't we put it up to a vote?

A) One list of Zeldas
B) Two lists: 1 of Zelda and 1 of Zelda/Sheik

:bandit:

 

[AzNfinesse]

*One note before I get started. When I say Zeldas I mean both Zelda and Zelda/Sheik. I don't feel like (nor do I feel the need) to type both*

- Retired players should not be considered
- Players who are not using her for the majority of tournaments (the serious matches) should not be considered
- Ryoko is a Brawl+ player, and I don't know if he plays Brawl anymore (he hasn't posted on the boards in over a month... it was a big thing on the B+ boards for awhile)
- One video of you vs someone shouldn't be your body of work
- Tournament results should be the main reasoning
- Any Zeldas who don't post here but are known players should be included

@KayLo - even power rankings are subjective. Comparing different regions and strength of opponents is subjective.

In reality, the best Zeldas are probably DM, Ninjalink, and other people who play her on the side but don't main her. We can see in their videos against quality opponents that they are superior, but I don't think that's what we are seeking.

We are looking for current tournament representation and who is doing it the best. The videos, opponents, strength of schedule (sounds like the BCS...) are all just added in to compare players who don't play in the same region.

An example of evaluation (all numbers and stats are made up):

AzN consistently gets top 10 at tournies of 25 people. Of those 25, only 2 are consistent top players at major tournaments.

I consistently get 17th at tournies of 40 people. Of those 40, 10-12 are consistent top players at major tournaments.

From that, you can say that I have a tougher region and initially rank my 17ths with his top 10's. Then you look at who we played, who we beat and see if you can separate us any. Let's say I have a few wins over the notables while he doesn't. I would then have the edge with videos of our Zeldas as the last evidence for rank.

In the end, I get listed above AzN.

Now, AzN goes to a major tournament and places well while I don't make it out of pools at my own major tournament. It would shift things because major tournaments are comparable.

-----

Let the results show for themselves, then get into the details.

-----

If I can get a list of tournament Zeldas then I will gladly compile tournament results (aside from the ones we already have in the tournament results thread).

:bandit:

win. i love this setup

edit: my vote for B

 

[GreyFox86]

Ok let's see if we can sort this out.

@Kata/Bandit: IIRC, I still do play Zelda. Kata I did return to her so it should be all good.

If we are going to do a list off of Zelda and Zelda/Sheik, then we need to find out who is going to be in the panel in terms of both sides.

I agree to what KLO said in terms of how to do this. Going off of Regular Tourney and MM with 3$+ will be fine.

The main one is to just pick out the 5 Panels, Zelda or Sheik I don't care, and discuss in detail on how this is going to be done. All this talk about no action is really making me feel uneasy about it.

EDIT: B

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah that did clear up stuff, you've got a good hold on this bandit! The stickied tourney thread will definitely come in handy if you want to collect results to do this.

Bandit what do you think of international players? Jujux has been placing well.

 

[Bandit]

International players are the wild card. KayLo hit it on the head awhile ago about how the metagame is different and most people aren't familiar with the players.

While I don't want to shut them out, I think the only real way is video comparisons. Unless they have people at the tournament who have played in a major US tournament, you can't really judge them.

You can talk to international players and get a feel, but it's extremely difficult to accurately put them in.

DM was in the same scenario until he went to a Cali tourney.

I think this is where GreyFox's panel idea comes in. They can critique Jujux's videos and make an educated guess where he would fall in the tourney rankings. The panel can judge whether certain styles would be successful or unsuccessful.

 

[KayLo!]

I hate Sheik. I hate playing with Sheik. I hate Sheik's little ninja poses.

<3

Sheik creeps me out a bit, tbh. The way she moves is just..... *shudder*

Why don't we put it up to a vote?

A) One list of Zeldas
B) Two lists: 1 of Zelda and 1 of Zelda/Sheik

A.

But since people are gonna ***** about that, B.

EDIT: I would suggest listing international players as honorary mentions and putting a note on the list as to why they aren't ranked. There's not much more you can do if you want it to be fair.

 

[GodAtHand]

I would go with option A)

But if it causes discontentment with people I really don't want that so B).

Actually what are the chances of us even getting a group of knowledgeable panelists who can routinely check tournament results and analyze videos of other players fairly?

And besides us who is gonna care? I wish other smashers cared enough, but really what pro (insert mid to high tier character name here) is gonna want to know who the best Zelda's are? She is nothing for him/her to worry about. And besides if we did do this and I am up there, it would ruin the surprise factor when I beat people.... which I revel in... so much.

 

[KayLo!]

The list is to motivate other Zeldas. I think. And for the good Zeldas to feel good and recognized? I dunno.

My stance from the beginning has been that I think a PR for Zelda is dumb, but since people wanted to go ahead with it, I figured I might as well try to be helpful and give suggestions.

Character PRs are kind of meh in general. The Pikas had one, and it was nice and all, but eventually they die because people stop caring after the 1st or 2nd update. Everybody knows who the good players of a character are (especially within a small character community, ex: Zelda), and that's enough.

 

[AzNfinesse]

the main thing with this is to really push some of those new zeldas or those zeldas who are under the radar to get their name out and maybe get zelda out there more.

 

[xxCANDYxx]

i vote myself best zelda


true story o.0

 

[Bandit]

@KayLo: I'd be okay with honorable mention, but we should make sure to highlight how well, in Jujux's case, that they are really doing on the international level.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I would vote for A because more or less, the Sheik's power rankings would be like our Zelda/Sheik list without the secondaries.

 

[zeldspazz]

Ill try to reel in some results from my tourney later this month >.>