Official SWF Tier List v8

[Z'zgashi]

Dude, I took 2 stocks off Seibrik both games I played him, Me > FL

 

[Master Raven]

GA has a few good people but the talent pool as a whole can't compare to FL.

 

[infiniteV115]

And nobody from FL has gotten 3 stocked by me
FL > P1

 

[Player-1]

But Inui almost beat zero

Lee Martin> PC Chris

 

[RaptorTEC]

NY/NJ random/mid level player>All

 

[infiniteV115]

Ally > All

 

[Aidebit]

Axis > Ally

 

[Tesh]

ny/nj=japan > everything else

having 1 single good player where everyone else sucks shouldn't really count

i'd put europe at 3rd or 4th and TX is probably below a spot worth ranking at this point

 

[Aidebit]

So I was wondering who would win in an 8v8 crew battle between NJ/NY and Japan.

 

[FredFuchs]

i managed to take 2 stocks total off of dehf in tournament (one per game) as ddd. me>socal

 

[FourStar]

Everybody>Nor Cal......

 

[Luco]

Everybody>Nor Cal......

Not true my good sir.

Everybody > Australia, i'm pretty dang sure...

Actually that's not necessarily true, our top players against each other remind me quite a bit of Canadian tournaments. <3

 

[Vermanubis]

until you guys start dressing up as your character like Vermanubis (Ganondorf) then i don't wanna hear anything about character pride. LOL im jking you don't have to do that

I don't really dress up as Ganon, so much as I just simply <am> Ganon.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Verm go to Sktar!

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Not true my good sir.

Everybody > Australia, i'm pretty dang sure...

Actually that's not necessarily true, our top players against each other remind me quite a bit of Canadian tournaments. <3

Who are your best players, Luco? I'd like to see them on play. Got videos?

 

[Vermanubis]

I just might, Joe. I'm not going to EVO, so that makes it a financial reality... I hope. ;-;

 

[dean.]

Who are your best players, Luco? I'd like to see them on play. Got videos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT2X9yxrUTA
Grand finals from our most recent 'major'. These two are within the top 3 (active) players in the country.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

From my understanding of things at the moment; Tibs, Attila and Shaya are probably our best players.
That is, if I'm to believe what Victoria is telling me about Shaya's extreme skills

ALSO D34N HELLO TELL EVERYONE THAT PUFF/DEDEDE ISN'T -4

 

[Luco]

Yayyy Aussies!

Australia > everyone else in terms of swag.

 

[dean.]

Puff-Dedede is -5.
Ted would probably round out the top 3.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

nuuuuuuuuu

also ted is overrated (shots fired, etc...)

he should stop doing so well in tourneys

horrendous spacing

 

[Sejä]

I really don't understand why Lucas is placed so low???? There are lots of characters that are by far not as good as him but higher listed here....
Anybody can tell me his, let's call it "FATAL" weeknesses? He's vulnerable during his upper B ok, next?

 

[Shaya]

From my understanding of things at the moment; Tibs, Attila and Shaya are probably our best players.
That is, if I'm to believe what Victoria is telling me about Shaya's extreme skills

They said something about my skills?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

They said something about my skills?

I'm pretty sure I heard whispers of your name, and lots of people seemed to be in this "Marth is an unstoppable machine" daze.

 

[Shaya]

Marth is indeed an unstoppable machine.

 

[Aidebit]

I really don't understand why Lucas is placed so low???? There are lots of characters that are by far not as good as him but higher listed here....
Anybody can tell me his, let's call it "FATAL" weeknesses? He's vulnerable during his upper B ok, next?

Grab release shenanigans. That's really bad. His recovery isn't even that bad.

 

[Luco]

I really don't understand why Lucas is placed so low???? There are lots of characters that are by far not as good as him but higher listed here....
Anybody can tell me his, let's call it "FATAL" weeknesses? He's vulnerable during his upper B ok, next?

Lucas... has his issues.

Talking about vulnerability during upB doesn't even really begin to cut it, unfortunately.

Lucas suffers from chain grabs and infinites, he suffers from a lack of safe options and he suffers from certain particular bad MUs where the opposing character simply outranges him. Due to this he's simply considered not that good.

Don't get me wrong, I reckon he should be higher and stuff but like, mid of mid tier - anything past that IMO is probably being unreasonable. His recent tournament success (not thinking Xanadu shut up guys i'm thinking of SKTAR and other stuff.... stuff stuff stuff etc more stuff I don't even know =/) helps him in this regard but it will only push him so far.

At the end of the day, if you want to make Lucas work, you've gotta put in all the extra effort to overcome all his difficulties and show people he can be used effectively IMO.

Until then, we have to accept his flaws do severely limit him, as unfortunate as the case may be. Sorry friend. :/

@Shaya: Hey buddy when can we have a game together, come to think of it? I seem to recall you were happy enough for me to practice against your Marth for as long as I could handle it and to let you know if I wanted you to try out a more grabby playstyle anytime? =/

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I need to MM both you guys at some point.

People keep trying to beat me with Marth and then they lose and say "Well, it's different if you play a Marth main", which I don't doubt, but I want to actually do that lol

Also Luco I beat jamwa in the friendlies I had vs. him fyi, so if you beat me that means you're better than him. Simple inui logic.

 

[Luco]

I need to MM both you guys at some point.

People keep trying to beat me with Marth and then they lose and say "Well, it's different if you play a Marth main", which I don't doubt, but I want to actually do that lol

Also Luco I beat jamwa in the friendlies I had vs. him fyi, so if you beat me that means you're better than him. Simple inui logic.

I beat Jamwa consistently in friendlies but they tended to be rather close.

On the other hand, for the one actual match we had, i'm pretty sure you won. I think it was last hit last stock though. ^_^

 

[dean.]

no-one cares about friendlies.

 

[Luco]

no-one cares about friendlies.

Better than nothing but you're right.

I said to Jamwa after our matches that i'm honestly not sure who's better out of us - although I was winning against him in friendlies, he seems to do better versus better players.

We'll sort it out one day.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You guys shouldn't be competing, Earthbound-mains should team up!

 

[Luco]

You guys shouldn't be competing, Earthbound-mains should team up!

Well we do! We totally support each other, I just can't help but wonder who's the better Lucas because from what i've seen it determines best Lucas in the country and as silly as the title is it's pretty cool to be able to say that. I dunno, makes me feel as though i'm actually getting somewhere. XD

But yea we do support each other. We got the same placement, you know, though of course I realise that my placement there was not 'all my own work'?

 

[Sejä]

Ok i see, thanks for the infos
Yes clearly he's not the best character but there are some characters i'd put lower than him..... (Sonic is complete garbage IMO o.o)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Hey man, you shouldn't treat my decision to stay up drinking any differently than if I played against you and made all the wrong decisions in-game

You place higher than someone, it's always legit haha, no johns

 

[dean.]

Attila's the best Lucas in the country.. maybe.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ok i see, thanks for the infos
Yes clearly he's not the best character but there are some characters i'd put lower than him..... (Sonic is complete garbage IMO o.o)

Sonic is good because most of what he does is safe, he never has to commit to anything, hes one of the hardest characters to react to, and he also has the ability to punish almost any mistake. He also is REALLY hard to approach if he gets a lead and has a good mix up game. I play X all the time and hes the best player in my state who got out of pools in Apex and in the past has beaten/done very well against a handful of big names, including even taking M2K to the last game of a set in grand finals of a regional (outdated, but just an example), all with Sonic. Imo Sonic is pretty well placed atm.

 

[Shaya]

I had edited this in my last post but things moved fast so

"Tell me more. What do you mean by 'daze[d]'?

I'm just very methodical and relatively verbose. Victoria (and Australia in general) have been exposed to a restricted meta which doesn't focus on spacing / manoeuvrability. I just kinda came along and was like "Power shielding is a science, let me show you" and gob smacked people, but it's really only just a progression thing, the issue is that the building blocks (progression) aren't there, so who knows how they'll truly interpret or incorporate a style of play that is close to completely reactionary.

Marth complements fundamentals better than every character in this game. I'm good at selling that."

@Shaya: Hey buddy when can we have a game together, come to think of it? I seem to recall you were happy enough for me to practice against your Marth for as long as I could handle it and to let you know if I wanted you to try out a more grabby playstyle anytime? =/

Needs the right time/place. I don't mind playing nearly anyone, but I'm iffy about who I have over. Tournaments (that I run) are awkward for me to play friendlies usually too. I'm also like, anti-friendlies at tournaments. Man I'm twisted.

People keep trying to beat me with Marth and then they lose and say "Well, it's different if you play a Marth main", which I don't doubt, but I want to actually do that lol.

Marth's hard. But simple rules are enough to improve with him. What I like to do is know what people shouldn't be trying to do and telling them. In the case of anyone playing against Marth, there are two very simple things to look out for that you know are scrub-tier mistakes: aerials that aren't hitting anything (why land with an aerial that isn't doing anything and give yourself an extra 6 odd frames of lag? why? or what did this aerial do that an air dodge wouldn't have done better? [seriously]) or aerials that weren't safe in the first place (why did you jump there? / why are you moving forward only?)

I'm like 99% certain everywhere but NSW has no idea what Marth is nor how they work. How people play against me in Melbourne shows how obvious their concepts of the match up are. Get hit on shield by an aerial, forward roll. So I'm given free bones and a lot of power because I can just wait for my aerial to be in the most prime spot (i.e. max range, just about to land) not afraid of anything and then just punish that roll. Unfortunately, for the Marth's you play against, your ease of punishing him just by frolling issssssssssssss disgustinggggggggggggggggly painful for me to watch (and play against too, because its just 1 dimensional and cheeses me after midnight with 30 frame reaction speed too much over my brawl history #mad) , so I couldn't really put myself through it much longer to comment elsewhere.

People see me play and aren't getting that its not what moves I'm choosing, its the movements I'm making and the space I'm creating. And If I'm playing properly, every move I make has a logic behind it.

 

[Luco]

Hey man, you shouldn't treat my decision to stay up drinking any differently than if I played against you and made all the wrong decisions in-game

You place higher than someone, it's always legit haha, no johns

<3

You're seriously one of the nicest guys in the smash community i'ver ever met, you know that? :D

@D34N: I thought that too originally. In our last friendly together (and yes I realise it's a friendly but whatevs) I recall 2-stocking his Lucas. That said, he's still a far better player... i'm just able to beat his Lucas is all, it seems. Eh. Why not just ask him heh?

@Shaya: Isn't gords gonna run a house tourney sometime soon-ish? I'll try and come to that yea and we can play maybe?

Also i'll bear witness to your statement. I won against Dekar's Marth in pools but I feel like I got away with quite a lot. I remember how much you used to talk about how I shouldn't always approach you using a roll and how i'd always get destroyed for trying it against you.

Man I can't believe that was a year and a half ago now. @.@

I've actually being playing an ACT Marth main online, Waverider. He and I are freakishly even and he's rather great with his punishes - it's online but he gets his punishes down to exact frame (try to AD to the ground near him and I get taught a lesson) so I reckon he could be really nice. he's also teaching me some fundamentals in the marth MU. Rather than using roll i'm looking at punishing Fairs with powershields and OoS Nairing or Fairing, depending on whether i'm using Ness or Lucas. I dunno i'll have to test it out more.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Marth stuff.

I just recall Attila and Splice having very high opinions of Marth, and his options in different situations. To the point where it seemed fantastical for any character below SSSS-God-Uber Tier to be described like they were describing Marth lol. And I know that you were in Vic semi-recently and Billy housed you or something? So yeah, put two and two together.

Most of my losses in Vic were just cheese in retrospect, I don't feel like I should lose to anyone in Australia now, re-evaluated my mindset.

<3

You're seriously one of the nicest guys in the smash community i'ver ever met, you know that? :D

lol, really? Nova and I get that way more often than sociopathic people should XD