Official SWF Matchup Chart v3.0

[Desu~]

OMG CAN YOU GAIZ JUST TASTE THE DELICIOUS DRAMA THAT'S IN HERE?

 

[pidgezero_one]

OMG CAN YOU GAIZ JUST TASTE THE DELICIOUS DRAMA THAT'S IN HERE?

tastes like Piss

 

[Desu~]

tastes like **** *

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRt2_OLY3Ho&t=59s

 

[-DR3W-]

jesus christ

get ****ing bodied

gj guys

 

[NH Cody]

OMG CAN YOU GAIZ JUST TASTE THE DELICIOUS DRAMA THAT'S IN HERE?

drama follows me wherever I go. At least it increases my post count

 

[xDD-Master]

I just took a look at ICs MU Ratios...

Why is Mario only +2 lol?


I feel like a lot of ICs MUs are worse than what its in this chart :/

 

[Ghostbone]

I feel like a lot of ICs MUs are worse than what its in this chart :/

They would be but ICs don't practice chain-grab timings vs bad characters.

So it's like 50% consistent ICs (that takes like a game to figure out the timing) vs that character rather than 0>death off any grab ICs vs that character.

 

[Rizen]

I'd like to hear about the Mario/ICs MU (ha, actual MU talk on this thread). I imagine Mario is really good at gimping ICs, or at least one of them, and that makes it -2?

 

[NH Cody]

no I'd rather hear about the luigi: yoshi mu. the mu chart says -1 but that makes no sense

 

[Z'zgashi]

I just took a look at ICs MU Ratios...

Why is Mario only +2 lol?


I feel like a lot of ICs MUs are worse than what its in this chart :/

LOL I never even noticed that. Yeah, that should be a -3, not a -2.

 

[Rizen]

The character players usually have good explanations. What's talked about depends on who shows up.
(inb4 Jigglypuff, Peach and Yoshi players answer)

 

[Z'zgashi]

I am a Mario player lol. I play Yoshi, Bowser, and Mario.

 

[1PokeMastr]

It's because Mario has a cape and can reverse the CG at any moment, making Nana sync with Mario and then you have Mario & Nana vs Sopo.

It's +3 for Mario.

I play Donkey Kong, Falco and Dedede.

 

[NH Cody]

It's +3 for Mario.

I play Donkey Kong, Falco and Dedede.

I was going to post something like this but then decided it was too cliche

 

[1PokeMastr]

You wanted to try and posting somethig not Cliche.

In this thread ?

 

[RaptorTEC]

Luigi is my most played mu it's definitely a +1

 

[Rizen]

Luigi is my most played mu it's definitely a +1

What can Luigi do to Yoshi? It seems like Yoshi would be really hard to chase down.

 

[infiniteV115]

I've been caught on the wrong day.
The **** is wrong with all of you.
Especially Thor bragging about beating a ****ing Ganon with Falco. HEY GUYS I WON A +4 MU, PRAISE ME.

It's like winning D3 vs ****ing Dk, and the D3 can do the infinite and has patience, it's nothing to brag about. Hey guys, did you see me push the Z button 240 times against that Dk ?

If were in a place of bragging about beating Ganon with a ****ing Falco.
I beat RayKalm's Ganon with my Falco.

LIKE ****.

And you go off complaining about being bad, and people not telling you you're being too hard on yourself, the **** is wrong with you ? If you're bad, you're ****ing bad.

Everyone is ****ing bad no matter where you look.

M2K lost to a ****ing Rob and Pit.
Glutonny lost to a ****ing Lucas.
Most of the USA gets bodied by a ****ing Donkey Kong.
Japan got bodied by ONE ****ING ZERO SUIT that can't even place ****ing high anymore.
Everyone spends their ****ing time complaining about getting grabbed by ****ing Ice Climbers.
Getting ****ing gimped by Metaknight, Chain Grabbed by a ****ing Falco despite his CG being dwarfed by a lot of other ****ing chain grabs.

Sopo, you ever hear of this nasty ****er ? A ****ing mid tier.
His ****ing CG works on the entire cast.
It has a higher damage output than ****ing Falco's.


Then you complain about not beating a mid tier with a ****ing mid tier.

If you ****ing play this game, it's your own ****ing fault, stop being *****es about it.


IF YOU'RE A ****ING NEW PLAYER, MAN THE **** UP AND LEARN THAT YOU'RE BAD AT THE ****ING GAME. DON'T ***** AND MOAN BECAUSE YOU CAN'T WIN.


Side note: Most of the DDD's have lost to Will

You sound upset.

 

[RaptorTEC]

What can Luigi do to Yoshi? It seems like Yoshi would be really hard to chase down.

He can't do much lol. I was saying +1 for Yoshi.

Copy/paste

Spoiler

Doing this from my phone so bear with me. Before I start I just want to note that this is my most played mu and that I feel very strongly about it being a +1 in Yoshis favor.

The main problem Luigi has in this mu is getting in and getting a kill move. Luigi literally can not approach Yoshi safely when the Yoshi is playing patient enough. I will admit though, that if he does find a way in at low percents, it can easily get Yoshi to 30-50% off of combos/strings/good reads. Good Luigis pull these crazy strings all the time. After that though, it usually becomes a reset after Luigi gets in which is already hard enough as it is. Fireballs don't do much in this mu since we can literally just jab them. They don't really force us to approach which, once again, is where the problem comes in with Luigi. He can't
approach us safely lol.

Just like Luigi, we can also rack up a significant amount of damage when we get the opponent in the air. Imo its more effective for Yoshi because, unlike Luigi in this mu, we can still effectively get some strings past low-mid percents and keep the momentum going. Luigi can't keep the damage going for too long (excluding low percents) due to our air speed. The more significant difference is when this is done off stage though. Yoshi completely destroys Luigi offstage. With practice, any Yoshi should be able to rack up a good amount of damage offstage against Luigi. Our mobility makes this a little easier to do so compared to most of the cast. I've heard LuigiSama say this many times. "No priority" when reffering to Luigi's side B. I've spiked him numerous times out of side b/spaced a bair/daired from the top/egged the side b leaving Luigi completely open to free damage after he picks from the few bad options he has left at that point/fall under to up air. There's so much we can do. When Luigi gets back to the ledge.... It's still bad lol. Our eggs make it really hard for him to get back on the stage safely. Most of the time, Luigis resort to jumping off the ledge and then cycloning towards Yoshi. This is also easily punishable by up smash or pivot grab. Or you could just shield the whole thing. I've come to notice this is a last ditch effort many Luigis do.

Both characters have about the same amount of trouble killing each other, but id say Yoshi has a slight advantage just because eggs will eventually put Luigi in a bad position once hit.

Also, if you look at records they point towards this being a favorable mu for Yoshi. Delta has beaten Luigisama (A good Luigi who has played this mu milllionssss of times) 2 out of 2 times and I'm pretty sure he's never lost to any other Luigis before. I have a winning record on Luigisama as well. I've also played YoshQ in numerous friendlies at Apex2013, which I took the majority of and also beat him in a mm at Apex2012. Same for Boss except it was a 2-0 with a 2 stock on game 1 and a timeout on the second game. He just couldn't find a way in. I'm also pretty sure Firefly has played and beaten Zhao before but I'm not 100% on that.
So yeah with that said, I think this is a +1 mu for Yoshi.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I thought it was because Luigi is basically 1 spot above low tier.

 

[tekkie]

It's because Mario has a cape and can reverse the CG at any moment, making Nana sync with Mario and then you have Mario & Nana vs Sopo.

sakurai, please make it happen

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I just read the last two pages and it's filled with so much stupid.

What am I reading?

Are these... tears? I think I am crying.

gj making a newbie ragequit guys, what a lovely community we have here.

 

[infiniteV115]

Ontario may have made an australian newbie raqequit but we also made a newbie (ie newbie to Australia) the best player in Australia so I think everything is evened out now

 

[Seagull Joe]

Didn't the 's wreck the 's at Apex 2012 in a crew battle?

 

[RaptorTEC]

Umm idk is 2 or 3 stocks out of a 15 stock crew battle getting wrecked? Everyone on our side played the mu like ass allowing Boss to take 8 stocks. Singles records still favor us anyway.

 

[pidgezero_one]

You sound Maddened.

ftfy

 

[Delta-cod]

Lol a lot of our players did dumb **** in the crew battle to get bopped. I took like, 6 or 7 stocks but it was too late to matter. The match up is pretty simple.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I'M BACK *******!!!

Why are we talking about Green characters like it's St. Patrick's Day?

We should be talking about Flaoc cuz it's Thanksgiving (in Canada)

 

[BSP]

Didn't the 's wreck the 's at Apex 2012 in a crew battle?

Raptor already answered, but I also wanted to point out that since timing out and camping Luigi is a legit strategy for pretty much any character, I wouldn't go off of a crew battle much.

I haven't played any ICs with Mario, so no comment. The ironic part about that cape joke is that it can give Nana permanent super armor, so it'd make things even worse.

 

[-DR3W-]

I think Thor's matchup experience would help tbh

 

[1PokeMastr]

Allowing Boss to take 8 stocks.

And you're denying being wrecked ?

 

[Aidebit]

Why are we talking about Green characters like it's St. Patrick's Day?

Because this thread isn't creative.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

And you're denying being wrecked ?

To be fair, Delta-cod just said he took 6-7 stocks, so not really. It's not uncommon for the best player of one side of crews to take an abnormally large amount of stocks in crews.

Heck, I've even seen bad players take like, 5 stocks~

 

[NH Cody]

I can't believe you all actually listened to me and are talking about yoshi vs luigi


there is no hope.

 

[RaptorTEC]

He did take 8 stocks but we didn't get "wrecked" as a whole considering it was 2 or 3 stocks at the end. Can't really remember

 

[Desu~]

I can't believe you all actually listened to me and are talking about yoshi vs luigi


there is no hope.

Everybody has the power to post something that might destroy this thread.

Like how i could ask who's got a better Yoshi; RaptorTEC or Tarextherex?
Im leaning on the latter.

 

[pidgezero_one]

I can't believe you all actually listened to me and are talking about yoshi vs luigi


there is no hope.

congratulations on figuring out what SM and I have been exploiting for the better part of 2 years

 

[Ghostbone]

Hmm
So if I ask what the Wolf vs Ike matchup is like will people start discussing it?

MU chart says +1 Wolf but we all know Ike is a protagonist and fights for his friends, so the good guy must win.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Ike's good, but Wolf's better.

 

[Rizen]

Hmm
So if I ask what the Wolf vs Ike matchup is like will people start discussing it?

MU chart says +1 Wolf but we all know Ike is a protagonist and fights for his friends, so the good guy must win.

Yes but the real world isn't like Disney.

In my experience Wolf does have a slight advantage. Transcendent blaster is awesome at interrupting Ike's actions and stopping his attempts at upB ledge stalling.
Wolf's mobility and Bair allow him to poke relatively safely and add to Wolf's pressuring. Wolf playing passively seems to be really difficult for Ike to deal with.
On the other hand Ike's power is insane and he doesn't need too many hits to KO. Ike's jab is always stupid good and Ike can be fast enough to land some stuff like Bair. Ike's reach and fast jab really aid him and make this close to even. He might have some throw>dash attack chain I'm not sure (how's that work?) Ikes do something and finish with dash attack a lot.

Offstage both can be gimped but Wolf does better and walling Ike back. Ike launches farther and punishes super hard.

It boils down to Wolf has an easier time but has to do more work. +1 Wolf.
/IMO