Official SWF Matchup Chart v3.0

[Delta-cod]

I mean...something like 5 pummels + a throw should be around 20%, right? That's not bad.

Assuming good mashing, you can't even CG until like, 30%. And then it's about one pummel per regrab + a throw at the end. Depending on where you grab and the stage length, it can be between like, 8% and 15% per grab at low-mid percents. At higher percents, the CGs effectiveness scales up a lot. Lots of pummels, lots of refresh, etc. At lower percents its best trait is the stage control.

Raptor, Gheb is just being Gheb and disagreeing with things in an ambiguous manner because he doesn't actually have anything to say. Just ignore him until he tries to actually be productive.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Potent vs. Yoshi offstage? Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool.

The only one who can claim that is like, MK.

Bthrow at the ledge leads to a lot of damage because Yoshi's fair loses out-right to Puff's bair in every respect, his double-jump locks him into an animation that Puff can react to and follow (and potentially predict, which strengthens punishment even more), his fall is slow enough that she can cover his options as he descends and his horizontal mobility doesn't help when Puff's is almost as good.

Watch my matches vs. Nikes, say what you will about his options in other situations or whatever, but ask yourself what you would do differently in his situation after being knocked off-stage.

I think it's either -1 or -2, definitely not -3 tho pech is a silly billy

 

[RaptorTEC]

Grim can you point out specific times when he's offstage just to avoid confusion and cause I'm lazy :3

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm at school and YT is blocked lol
I'll point out some specific situations when I get home (about 5 hours)

 

[Delta-cod]

I don't know why you're mentioning our Fair when we'd probably just DJ right at you and Nair counter most things. These things really only apply at low percents, since at high percents we just DI/recover high and mix up the landing, and at low percents we can just Heavy Armor things anyways.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Because yoshi's nair is out-ranged by puff's bair. Fair isn't if you come from above or w.e., but it's slow and awkward as you know so yeah - no offensive options if you're facing puff
I know Yoshi players love getting hit out of their double jump off-stage but let's try and contain ourselves a little here

at low % you tank things and take damage, that's what I was saying
at high % you can DI high for most attacks, but nair and throws and **** send you off at a better angle
and that's where you can see puff being potent against yoshi off-stage

 

[RaptorTEC]

Yeah idk about challenging puff in the air when were trying to land. :x

 

[Delta-cod]

I mean, I dunno what we're thinking here, but I don't see Nair/throws sending us at a good enough angle at high percents to stop us from returning high. Puff's Bair outranges Nair at good spacing, but yeah, it's not like we're gonna throw out Nair before getting hit confirmed, lol.

Either way, the most I see us eating is like, a follow up Bair if we get hit off stage. That's not very terrifying.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Assuming good mashing, you can't even CG until like, 30%. And then it's about one pummel per regrab + a throw at the end. Depending on where you grab and the stage length, it can be between like, 8% and 15% per grab at low-mid percents. At higher percents, the CGs effectiveness scales up a lot. Lots of pummels, lots of refresh, etc. At lower percents its best trait is the stage control.

Raptor, Gheb is just being Gheb and disagreeing with things in an ambiguous manner because he doesn't actually have anything to say. Just ignore him until he tries to actually be productive.

At Sktar 2, Raptor wasn't ready for my mashing.

I mashed out so fast, I IAP'd with Falco before he realised I broke out.


Don't worry, no one is ready for my mashing.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I mean, I dunno what we're thinking here, but I don't see Nair/throws sending us at a good enough angle at high percents to stop us from returning high. Puff's Bair outranges Nair at good spacing, but yeah, it's not like we're gonna throw out Nair before getting hit confirmed, lol.

Either way, the most I see us eating is like, a follow up Bair if we get hit off stage. That's not very terrifying.

That's not what hit confirm means fyi

Like I said, will show video evidence of massive off-stage damage later

 

[Delta-cod]

I know. I'm just lazy and didn't want to write out a longer explanation of what was happening.

I look forward to ripping video-evidence to shreds.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Even if you do, it'll just mean that I'm reading him really well while he recovers, which suits me just fine lol

The hit confirm sentence was kinda silly anyway, "i'm not going to Nair unless I think it'll work"
Well gee, doesn't that apply to every decision in the game? XD
Point is that Nair gets out-ranged so you aren't going to "hit confirm" it, it's a poor option, you said earlier that Yoshi would probably dj Nair to counter most things though, so I'm kinda doubting your authority on this subject

 

[Espy Rose]

Gheb is just being Gheb and disagreeing with things in an ambiguous manner because he doesn't actually have anything to say. Just ignore him until he tries to actually be productive.

You're giving him far too much credit.

 

[Delta-cod]

Even if you do, it'll just mean that I'm reading him really well while he recovers, which suits me just fine lol

The hit confirm sentence was kinda silly anyway, "i'm not going to Nair unless I think it'll work"
Well gee, doesn't that apply to every decision in the game? XD
Point is that Nair gets out-ranged so you aren't going to "hit confirm" it, it's a poor option, you said earlier that Yoshi would probably dj Nair to counter most things though, so I'm kinda doubting your authority on this subject

Hurf.

I mean, if I DJ Armor things like Marth's Fair > Nair for kills, I'm pretty sure pure range of the hitboxes isn't necessarily the biggest issue here.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Oh I see what you mean
Still tho, I'm pretty sure I can tippered bair your dj and float out of nair range

Probably depends on if you're already drifting towards me when you start the dj and stuff

But yeah, I apologize, thought you meant that you'd dj AND Nair before my Bair, for some reason

EDIT: Turns out there are no recent videos of me playing against Yoshi, so...
Too bad

 

[Rizen]

@last page, well that ended up a let down :[

 

[| Big D |]

Sing to rest is guaranteed on Yoshi at some percents.

 

[ぱみゅ]

@last page, well that ended up a let down :[

Were you actually expecting it?

 

[Delta-cod]

Oh I see what you mean
Still tho, I'm pretty sure I can tippered bair your dj and float out of nair range

Probably depends on if you're already drifting towards me when you start the dj and stuff

But yeah, I apologize, thought you meant that you'd dj AND Nair before my Bair, for some reason

EDIT: Turns out there are no recent videos of me playing against Yoshi, so...
Too bad

Probably. I just wanted to point out that it's not as simple as it seems. Your spacing would need to be pretty impeccable as you'd need to be aiming at the air in front of Yoshi essentially, since the DJ accelerates him to top speed in a direction.

Sadface @ edit.

 

[RaptorTEC]

What happened with your match against Nikes? Lol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

There's one on YT from early this year that isn't as developed as our current puff/yoshi off-stage metagame dealie
We've played several times since then and I just assumed one of the more recent sets would be on YT, unfortunately not

Delta: Yeah I see what you mean, I'll have to be thinking about it hardcore next time I'm playing lol, one of those things where I can't quite picture how it all plays out in my mind

 

[Rizen]

I got impatient, tell me if this is a bad example?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6AmmAkm9Gk
I can see that as +2 Yoshi if he had the GT>Uair timing down.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That's the set from the beginning of the year that I was talking about
I ran into a lot of dumb **** because I was way more aggressive then, hurts to watch >_> guess that's how everyone feels about old vids tho

GR > Uair is like Rest
it can turn it into a +2 if you land it at the right percents
but that's not going to happen very often
(not that landing rest makes the MU +2 in Puff's favour, but you catch my drift)

 

[tarextherex]

Ok I don't actually want to talk more about this but after skimming through the last couple of posts I just can't let that pass by lmao so Ima just expose you all and then actually quit posting cuz smashboards is really useless

A character without a shield can't +2 anyone except like Ganon.

Lol. Srsly. like, reaaaaaally? Proof of the stupidity right there. Yeah ZSS can't win a national either

Like why are super randoms from australia even bother saying random stuff they have no idea about when they are free as hell? You got like you and that super random puff grim tuesday that no one cares about even when he posts like all day every day(lmao he's still here) saying random **** when the fact is that PUFF IS BAD. "oh but bair actually outranges the 59.99$ and" NO. That is irrelevant. Snake got broken tilts but do people still get hit all day by them? No. Yoshi +3's puff(only char in the game who has -4 is ganon because he's ganon), puff sucks. puff is actually worse than ganon in some aspects and since no one at all is good with her she should be even worse than ganon at this point. When your character relies on the SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN then that's a much bigger problem than "no shield derp". Go back being free at Tin Man's tournies. I mean your region is even freer than France, France is like "go there = get top 3" but Australia is like ****ing TOP 2 and before like 3 months ago it was TOP 1.

Sing to rest is guaranteed on Yoshi at some percents.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. SING TO REST IS WHAT I DID ON THE SPOT IN SOME RANDOM SMASHFEST WHERE I PICKED PUFF, MY 2ND WORST CHARACTER NEXT TO SONIC WHICH I DON'T PLAY AT ALL FOR MORAL REASONS, AND NEXT TIME I COME HERE PEOPLE FREAKING MENTION SING INTO REST AS BEING AN OPTION. THIS DOESN'T EVEN HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOSHI'S NOSE, YOU SHOULDN'T GET HIT BY SING AT ALL. I GUESS YOU COULD THINK THAT WHEN YOSHIS LIKE LOLRAPTOR LAND WITH FREAKING FAIR, RANDOM DOWN BS OR DJ AIRDODGE TO GET BACK ONSTAGE BUT WTF SING INTO REST REALLY? LMAOOOOOOOO. I'm done.

 

[Ghostbone]

I almost fell for the trollbait

 

[Delta-cod]

It's funny cuz he's from Quebec.

 

[Rizen]

Ganon's only worse than Jiggz because the timeout factor.

MY 2ND WORST CHARACTER NEXT TO SONIC WHICH I DON'T PLAY AT ALL FOR MORAL REASONS,

"Moral reasons"?

Edit:
I wish we could get past flaming regions. It's no secret some regions are more active and have better scenes but this is the MU chart thread not a region tier thread. Big regions have tons of bad players too; they simply have more people involved. What's important is the actual game play.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Tarex calling others free.

 

[Blubolouis]

I mean your region is even freer than France, France is like "go there = get top 3"

I'd like to see you try.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Not being able to break top 5 in Quebec locals obviously makes him capable of breaking top 3 in France.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I'd like to Vote Ally going to france.

 

[tarextherex]

Quebec>France in everything, the best players here are always good even when the metagame here is stale(we always play each other pretty much), still, qc ***** yall in brawl since 2008 anyway

I'm top 5 in Quebec easily last 3-4 tourneys or so I get at least 5th

Raptor wouldn't get top 5 in Quebec because he's FREE and only manages to get a couple of fraudulent wins and talks big cuz of that, well being a fraud is a fraud even when you're from NY/NJ

I think my Link>every Yoshi

GYK is my homie

I think I was the only Yoshi ever to take ally to last stock in tournament also lmao

stay free

 

[Blubolouis]

You talk big but that's pretty much it. Come make top 3 or shut up altogether.

 

[Rizen]

I think my Link>every Yoshi

Link always wins but they're mostly moral victories.

 

[RaptorTEC]

I think I was the only Yoshi ever to take ally to last stock in tournament also lmao

stay free

So your biggest accomplishment is losing to someone? The only other Yoshi to play Ally in tourney was Delta and he did the same except he doesn't brag about losing to people.

 

[Delta-cod]

Raptor, you don't have to spread lies about me.

I totally brag about taking Ally to last stock.

But actually **** Snake he's too ****ing fat why won't he just die.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

qc ***** yall in brawl since 2008 anyway

Didn't Ally lose to a French player when he went to Europe?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Delta beat Ally one time. Allbrawl OP

 

[Gardex]

I'd love to see some top level Allbrawl footage

 

[KuroganeHammer]

ok so here are my thoughts, am driving car so cbf grammar

1. I know Australia is probably one of the weaker regions, but we still have players who can compete on an international scale aka Shaya and everyone better than him currently

2. I was watching aussie tournament matches from shadowloo showdown and ghostbone impressed me more than our supposed top MK player. I also thought Ghostbusters was just another garbage forum crusader, but I changed my mind now. I still don't care for grimmy (ily grimmy) but that's not the point

3. who is the person I am replyinf too? the only Canadian region I know of is BC, so idk who tarix is