Official SWF Matchup Chart v3.0

[~ Gheb ~]

Falln thinks Yoshi has no response to a "properly spaced dash attack".

LOL I can actually see where he's coming from. Not that I agree with him but I can see Yoshi having issues punishing multi-hit moves like that on block. And if Kirby's DA beats grab and trades with bair it would definitely be one of the more annoying moves to deal with.

 

[Delta-cod]

Kirby's DA is easier to deal with than MK's Nado on shield, which we answer with Spotdodge > Punish (usually jab, tilt, or Yoshi Bomb), except that Kirby's DA does not provide him with free control over movement, move duration, etc.

Seriously, wat. It's so much easier for Yoshi to spotdodge the end of Kirby's DA and beat his face in for it than it is to punish MK's Nado, and we punish nado reliably well as long as MKs keep deciding to use its full duration.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Kirby's DA is easier to deal with than MK's Nado on shield

OHh WORD?

 

[Kewkky]

Kirby's DA hits 6 times total, and after the 6th hit, you're unable to control him until he properly stands up. Also, each hit is slower than the last, so it's easy counting and getting ready for a counter. Lastly, I have no idea how you can "space properly" Kirby's dash attack, since he moves forward and you have no control over him as he does his attack.

It's an okay dash attack. Not decent, just okay.

 

[Delta-cod]

OHh WORD?

I mean, it's obvious, but I was just trying to draw a comparison with another multihit move that we have a reliable OOS move for punishing, and show that a move with significantly less mixups/default timing would be easy as pie to beat OOS with as a result.

But yeah, let's focus on that part.

 

[NH Cody]

yeah and the funniest part is he goes into threads saying "you can't make claims unless you're a top player." yet the top players are the ones who say mk loses to diddy or olimar or ROB or insert character here that beat me yesterday at that national and made me sadface (mooo 2k) and that ICs are above mk in the tier list (zero). who has the better version of reality here???

 

[Thor]

Okay it is RRR and I feel less stupid for getting 2 and 3 stocked a bunch (now it's mainly 2 stocks but about a third of those are cuz I was bad at edgeguard and he Kirbycides me. I'm not falling for it anymore but I used to too much...) since you all says he's really good (at least for a Kirby, not that he stacks up great as a whole...maybe he does? I don't know enough here).

I've gotten him down to one stock with Ike once.. but I managed to stage spike on Lylat while he tried to edgeguard me and I read a roll that was a tech error for the second kill (Fsmash at about 70%)...

The otherwise closest I've been is him at 2 stocks with 140%. Can't land a single KO move for my life.

Fsmash is a kill move - it's why I definitely can't dsmash over about 110% unless I've got the combo or know I'll eat his shield. (he can space and smash right through it).

I've also got dair gimped (feels stupid), but I think I gimped him exactly once (if that - I might be crazy here) because he used some jumps to guard me but I somehow avoided, naired, and then landed on the edge and went out to bair him...ledge hog for the death, I think.

But it feels even, I just suck.

 

[NH Cody]

no you should definitely still feel stupid for getting twostocked by a kirby, you were on the right track.

 

[Kewkky]

no you should definitely still feel stupid for getting twostocked by a kirby, you were on the right track.

I dunno man, I've 2-3 stocked a lot of people in tournaments, even in tourneys here in US when I tried to get into the scene about two years ago. I still remember... The guy gave me housing, and I 3-stocked him, ending with a Kirbycide. He threw his controller all over the place.

 

[NH Cody]

He threw his controller all over the place.

exactly, evidence of feeling stupid o.o

 

[Thor]

Well I suck. That's been established. I also said I feel LESS stupid, not NOT stupid. Learn to read you bonehead.

 

[Desu~]

He might be a bonehead, but at least he doesn't get 2 stocked by a Kirby.

 

[NH Cody]

^^^^ desu knows the truth

 

[Thor]

Are you asserting you would beat RRR? I'm not mad or challenging, but curious.

I'm also trying to improve - quitting now would just mean I'd always get two (three) stocked by him. Unless you're saying I should instantly be good enough to avoid that.

On the plus side I have started beating his Ganondorf consistently (Falco dthrow dair ledge grab too good). One step at a time. Unless you wanna assert otherwise (but you better back it up...)

 

[NH Cody]

yes I beat him consistently on aib ladder in a green connection

 

[Thor]

Okay, I'll be sure to ask him about it next time I go to one of his Smashfests. You use Toon Link for that?

 

[NH Cody]

are you serious

 

[Thor]

?? What? You have a little TL logo in your thingie to the right of the posts...

 

[NH Cody]

my presence in this thread is not effecting the same result I intended

where's shiny mewtwo when you need him

 

[Thor]

? I'm so lost...
If you're just insulting me for sucking, RRR says I do it too much to myself already. But thanks for the positive reinforcement (cuz it means I'm right).

Maybe you can just tell me what you're intending so I can respond as needed...

 

[1PokeMastr]

I've been caught on the wrong day.
The **** is wrong with all of you.
Especially Thor bragging about beating a ****ing Ganon with Falco. HEY GUYS I WON A +4 MU, PRAISE ME.

It's like winning D3 vs ****ing Dk, and the D3 can do the infinite and has patience, it's nothing to brag about. Hey guys, did you see me push the Z button 240 times against that Dk ?

If were in a place of bragging about beating Ganon with a ****ing Falco.
I beat RayKalm's Ganon with my Falco.

LIKE ****.

And you go off complaining about being bad, and people not telling you you're being too hard on yourself, the **** is wrong with you ? If you're bad, you're ****ing bad.

Everyone is ****ing bad no matter where you look.

M2K lost to a ****ing Rob and Pit.
Glutonny lost to a ****ing Lucas.
Most of the USA gets bodied by a ****ing Donkey Kong.
Japan got bodied by ONE ****ING ZERO SUIT that can't even place ****ing high anymore.
Everyone spends their ****ing time complaining about getting grabbed by ****ing Ice Climbers.
Getting ****ing gimped by Metaknight, Chain Grabbed by a ****ing Falco despite his CG being dwarfed by a lot of other ****ing chain grabs.

Sopo, you ever hear of this nasty ****** ? A ****ing mid tier.
His ****ing CG works on the entire cast.
It has a higher damage output than ****ing Falco's.


Then you complain about not beating a mid tier with a ****ing mid tier.

If you ****ing play this game, it's your own ****ing fault, stop being ******* about it.


IF YOU'RE A ****ING NEW PLAYER, MAN THE **** UP AND LEARN THAT YOU'RE BAD AT THE ****ING GAME. DON'T ***** AND MOAN BECAUSE YOU CAN'T WIN.


Side note: Most of the DDD's have lost to Will

 

[Seagull Joe]

>Game skill is irrelevant, looking at most members of the BBR >.>
>Debating skill = agreeing with the opinions of everyone already in the BBR
>Game knowledge is also basically the same as agreeing with the opinions of matchups/character viability of everyone in the BBR.

Noob.

chudat doesn't even enter tourneys this is an outrage!!!

He just won one today.

 

[Kewkky]

In all honesty Thor, you should probably refrain from posting in threads dedicated to discussing about competitive smash at higher levels until you gain some more experience and knowledge. To be honest, this discussion has gone quite off-topic. Until then, you're free to lurk and ask questions, but we're spending too much time on you "sucking" and "getting beat by RRR". :\

Also ignore what 1PokeMastr said. It's probably gonna be edited out by a mod.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Chu is better then every by a lot lmao. This is not really up for debate.

I've been caught on the wrong day.
The **** is wrong with all of you.
Especially Thor bragging about beating a ****ing Ganon with Falco. HEY GUYS I WON A +4 MU, PRAISE ME.

It's like winning D3 vs ****ing Dk, and the D3 can do the infinite and has patience, it's nothing to brag about. Hey guys, did you see me push the Z button 240 times against that Dk ?

If were in a place of bragging about beating Ganon with a ****ing Falco.
I beat RayKalm's Ganon with my Falco.

LIKE ****.

And you go off complaining about being bad, and people not telling you you're being too hard on yourself, the **** is wrong with you ? If you're bad, you're ****ing bad.

Everyone is ****ing bad no matter where you look.

M2K lost to a ****ing Rob and Pit.
Glutonny lost to a ****ing Lucas.
Most of the USA gets bodied by a ****ing Donkey Kong.
Japan got bodied by ONE ****ING ZERO SUIT that can't even place ****ing high anymore.
Everyone spends their ****ing time complaining about getting grabbed by ****ing Ice Climbers.
Getting ****ing gimped by Metaknight, Chain Grabbed by a ****ing Falco despite his CG being dwarfed by a lot of other ****ing chain grabs.

Sopo, you ever hear of this nasty ****er ? A ****ing mid tier.
His ****ing CG works on the entire cast.
It has a higher damage output than ****ing Falco's.

Then you complain about not beating a mid tier with a ****ing mid tier.

If you ****ing play this game, it's your own ****ing fault, stop being *****es about it.

IF YOU'RE A ****ING NEW PLAYER, MAN THE **** UP AND LEARN THAT YOU'RE BAD AT THE ****ING GAME. DON'T ***** AND MOAN BECAUSE YOU CAN'T WIN.

Side note: Most of the DDD's have lost to Will

What got your panties in a knot today?

 

[Alphicans]

Evidently, and understandably... This thread

 

[Thor]

Got it. I'll just...not come here for like10 years. Or ever again.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lol, dont listen to kewky, you dont have to be knowledgeable on this game to post here, I mean, Seagull posts here.

 

[Thor]

Sorry, I know I said I wouldn't post here and it's probably the wrong forum, but can some just tell me how to delete my account? I was getting 3-stocked by Ganon 2 weeks ago - I should've never even come on here.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Lasers, Jab and Bair.

Bair -> Ganon.
Lasers -> Ganon.
Jab -> Ganon, except his Fsmash when spaced.
Phantasm for the hell of it.

I'm sorry about venting here last night, it was wrong.
Baha.

 

[Kewkky]

Sorry, I know I said I wouldn't post here and it's probably the wrong forum, but can some just tell me how to delete my account? I was getting 3-stocked by Ganon 2 weeks ago - I should've never even come on here.

Come on man, seriously? I meant that you should learn some more about Smash in general before participating in a thread dedicated to discussing matchups between characters. I didn't say "get out of Smashboards until you're better". I'm trying to steer this conversation from "Hi guys, I suck, but I'll discuss stuff anyway!" And towards "Why can I beat this guy's Ganondorf with my Falco, but not his Kirby with my Falco? And where can I go learn about it if necessary?".

And stop taking things personal, geez. This isn't meant to offend, but you should learn when to keep quiet and read, and when to participate in discussions. No one knows everything, and when a topic happens that we don't know about, we just read what other people say and learn. That's part of lurking. THEN once you feel like you can contribute, you can go ahead and post to your heart's content.

Also if just chatting in general and learning is what you want, there's a thread in this very same subforum that has some very nice people that can lead you around and answer your competitive questions, as well as socialize in the process. I'm on my mobile so I can't really browse around and give you a link, but it's got 'Social' in the name I think. EDIT: http://smashboards.com/threads/brawl-social-advice-resources-thread-not-sure-ask.266590/

Just... Stop taking things seriously. This could be an opportunity for you to grow as a person mentally, dealing with people online will help you grow a backbone and teach you how to argue against other people outside of debate clubs. And traveling to tourneys is a great way to make friends and kill time.

 

[Thor]

Can't travel, can't argue, can't socialize, can't play Smash, I'll find the subforum I guess, thought MU info would improve my game, sorry, no one's explained how to delete my account, bye.

 

[Kewkky]

Well, whatever you want then. I tried. :\

 

[NH Cody]

He just won one today.

okay yes he wins locals but imo if he were good he would have beaten mr r at apex. with falln beating mikehaze in his prime and mikekirby getting mikeneko to game 3 at apex, I think that's where he should have won (mr r lost to will yet MINTY beat will 2-0 recently!!?!?)

Thor: do you have skype, because there are a few things we need to discuss

 

[RaptorTEC]

Minty will forever be the only Marth capable of beating Will in tournament. They go back and forth though.

 

[NH Cody]

yes

toon link ratios are all wrong

 

[Seagull Joe]

okay yes he wins locals but imo if he were good he would have beaten mr r at apex. with falln beating mikehaze in his prime and mikekirby getting mikeneko to game 3 at apex, I think that's where he should have won (mr r lost to will yet MINTY beat will 2-0 recently!!?!?)

Thor: do you have skype, because there are a few things we need to discuss

Mikekirby does not win locals. He did not make it out of pools at Sktar. Falln does not win locals. He got wrecked at Whobo by TESH.

Mr. R>Mikehaze. Chu's got like a super positive record to Neo, but he also had not played for a long time prior to Apex 2013. He went to one tourney the entire year of 2012. He recently decided to get back into brawl and melee. I doubt mikeneko even fought a before considering it's Japan lool. When I play any japanese player except ones I usually destroy them due to lack of any knowledge of .

He still outplaced Mikekirby at Apex 2013. He got 5th in doubles at Apex 2012 with Fatal and 2nd at Apex 2010 with Junebug . I know doubles should not be in consideration of tier lists or matchups, but it should matter for ranking purposes of players/characters. The fact he is basically a doubles god should account for something.

Edit: I would hope Minty can beat Will considering they've been playing each other for years. I think they're in the same crew too. EE can give me trouble and he's not a top player, but I've played him for years and he's in my crew.

 

[NH Cody]

tesh is actually really knowledgeable about the game and is good when he isn't trolling with wario and pt >_> but yes okay he lost once to tesh. but he has consistent results since then. chudat has one tourney result vs logic and the tantalus and pink fresh's lucas. too early for "omg best kirby." falln and mikekirby have more results

neo's marth is silly.

 

[Seagull Joe]

tesh is actually really knowledgeable about the game and is good when he isn't trolling with wario and pt >_> but yes okay he lost once to tesh. but he has consistent results since then. chudat has one tourney result vs logic and the tantalus and pink fresh's lucas. too early for "omg best kirby." falln and mikekirby have more results

neo's marth is silly.

It isn't too early to make this claim. It's been a well known fact since 08.
Not going to argue this any further because it's honestly silly to think a is better or at Chu's level.

 

[NH Cody]

okay it's really irrelevant anyway because kirby is a trash char

 

[pidgezero_one]

my presence in this thread is not effecting the same result I intended

where's shiny mewtwo when you need him

Shiny Mewtwo is a graduate of my academy. You should consider enrolling.

IF YOU'RE A ****ING NEW PLAYER, MAN THE **** UP AND LEARN THAT YOU'RE BAD AT THE ****ING GAME. DON'T ***** AND MOAN BECAUSE YOU CAN'T WIN.

Alternative course of action: retire to doubles, continue to john

Can't travel, can't argue, can't socialize, can't play Smash, I'll find the subforum I guess, thought MU info would improve my game, sorry, no one's explained how to delete my account, bye.

Oh hush. Just because you're derailing a thread doesn't mean you need to delete an account. Believe me, I should know.

Lol, dont listen to kewky, you dont have to be knowledgeable on this game to post here, I mean, Seagull posts here.

Hi.