Official SWF Matchup Chart v3.0

[Delta-cod]

I find that being ballsy against people while they're on the ledge (if they're not MK) works surprisingly well.

 

[Ghostbone]

So what if bair is stale? Why does Kirby give a single ****? He has plenty of powerful actually viable moves that can instead.

Can't tell if serious.

Anyway, aerials cannot clank at all.

Aerials can definitely clank with specials/glide attacks, and projectiles.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah because people are perfect and totally don't get hit by anything else except bairs. Yeah, right. Try not to theorycraft too hard.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Even a stale bair is a very good move for Kirby, let's not forget that.

 

[-LzR-]

But really, so what if it's stale? The move still does exactly what it's used for. It's not like it's going to kill anyways.

 

[Ghostbone]

Kirby has no other good kill moves.
And sure it's still good for spacing and punishing, but it's doing way less damage when it's stale.

 

[-LzR-]

You serious? Kirby has a lot of rather powerful not stupid impossible to land in a real situation moves. Aka all of his smashes and aerial hammer.

 

[Ghostbone]

You serious? Kirby has a lot of rather powerful not stupid impossible to land in a real situation moves. Aka all of his smashes and aerial hammer.

You must be joking.

D-smash is only strong if you're standing right on top of Kirby and has extreme lag, F-smash is easily telegraphed, easily punished, and Kirby doesn't have the mix-ups to punish you for expecting it (but yes you will sometimes see him kill with it), Kirby's too slow to catch landings with U-smash, I could maybe see it punishing some horribly spaced moves on kirby's shield.

Hammer is too slow to actually land, when you consider your opponent can just hit him in the start-up or even just drift away from kirby.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

not stupid impossible to land in a real situation moves

aerial hammer.

Ladies and gentlemen, LzR has forfeited the internet.

 

[-LzR-]

Wow I had no idea Australia was so skilled they never get hit by anything except the guaranteed uber fast and safe moves. Please go and watch some videos and you'll actually see these moves hit people.

 

[PKBeam]

What does telegraphed mean anyway?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

LzR: Racism lol. As much as I'd love to watch videos of Kirby until I find someone getting a KO with hammer (by the way, a consistent KO move doesn't happen once every 10 videos or whatever my success ratio would be lol), nobody uses Kirby.

PKBeam: Easy to see it coming, even before they've pressed the button.

 

[-LzR-]

That is unfortunately true, Kirby is rare.
I just don't see how aerial hammer or fsmash is never going to hit anyone ever if you consider pound a punishing move. Pound is garbage imo.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I can understand that, when my playstyle more closely mirrored the 'top' Puffs, I also found it pretty ehhhh as well

Once you (general 'you', not specifically you lzr) get more comfortable with applying pressure w/ puff - which will come from not making spacing missteps or poor option selections, you can draw people into unsafe commitments and movements a lot more often, which is where pound comes into the mix cause it just eats space and you can place it exactly where it needs to be when the hitbox comes out due to the fact that you can start it out-of-range and then it moves you into range

 

[PKBeam]

Kirby is rare.

Not on WiFi he's not.
And I bet you can guess why.

 

[-LzR-]

I can understand that, when my playstyle more closely mirrored the 'top' Puffs, I also found it pretty ehhhh as well

Once you (general 'you', not specifically you lzr) get more comfortable with applying pressure w/ puff - which will come from not making spacing missteps or poor option selections, you can draw people into unsafe commitments and movements a lot more often, which is where pound comes into the mix cause it just eats space and you can place it exactly where it needs to be when the hitbox comes out due to the fact that you can start it out-of-range and then it moves you into range

Fine that is a convincing argument, but why not just drift into range with an aerial instead? Would be much safer and more rewarding than pound. And pound is really slow too.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Pound is pretty different to aerials, so they have different uses. And pound is often more rewarding IMO

 

[xDD-Master]

Guys why is mario so OP ?

 

[Ghostbone]

Mario's so gimmicky
Gets all the upsets.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Dude, Super Jump Punch is one of the best moves in the game. Too bad the rest of Mario's kit is ass.

 

[False]

Gah I hope I'm reading a bunch of troll posts now.. This is making me sort of mad. @_@

Brawl is a game where spacing is easily disrupted through some of the most conventional means: dashing in and shielding, air dodging in, cross up roll, etc. With this said, spacing is still a virtue, but NOT IF your spacing relies on one ****ing move. It doesn't work like that, you're expecting me to not have your pattern of using kirby's bair downloaded within the first minute of the match? The move itself is pretty good, but Kirby himself is.. not.

 

[Rizen]

With this said, spacing is still a virtue, but NOT IF your spacing relies on one ****ing move. It doesn't work like that,

...except for MK vs the lower ranked half of the roster. Not that he has to rely on one or two moves but he can.

 

[infiniteV115]

Nado is a special, suitpieces are items and pikmin are an exception because they are living things you can actually hit.
The only actual aerial that clanks I can think of is Zss nair and that move seems to be quite meh.

I think you misread. My point was that all non-transcendent aerials will clash with nado/bouncing suitpieces/pikmin attacks.

If you still don't like those examples then fine, there's also MK sideB/MK dash attack/MK glide attack/ZSS laser/ZSSusmash/ZSSupB/ZSSnair/Snakeusmash/ZeldasideB etc. Point is, aerials can clash with certain moves. Therefore this

Anyway, aerials cannot clank at all. Have you seriously ever seen any aerial clank at all with a move? It doesn't happen

Was wrong

 

[xDD-Master]

Mario for best character in the game!

 

[-LzR-]

I think you misread. My point was that all non-transcendent aerials will clash with nado/bouncing suitpieces/pikmin attacks.

If you still don't like those examples then fine, there's also MK sideB/MK dash attack/MK glide attack/ZSS laser/ZSSusmash/ZSSupB/ZSSnair/Snakeusmash/ZeldasideB etc. Point is, aerials can clash with certain moves. Therefore this


Was wrong

Sorry, my bad then.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

I think people are underestimating how much a single move can change a charecter. Little things can change the whole way a charecter works. Because of how threatening kirby's bair is he can space with it to condition the opponent to force them into situations where some of his other moves can be used. his whole move set would be much worse without that move and on the same note that one move could drastically improve other worse characters. could you imagine falcon if he actually had a decent spacing move with decent disjoint? Or how bad a charecter like DDD would become without his bair?

Single moves can make or break characters as long as the charecter isn't built stupid like mk who is so powerful I don't think you coils really hurt him by removing any one of his amazing moves... Stupid charecter...

 

[Dekillsage]

If anything makes kirby "threatening" its the fact he has multiple jumps, not his bair.

 

[Rizen]

I think people are underestimating how much a single move can change a charecter. Little things can change the whole way a charecter works. Because of how threatening kirby's bair is he can space with it to condition the opponent to force them into situations where some of his other moves can be used. his whole move set would be much worse without that move and on the same note that one move could drastically improve other worse characters. could you imagine falcon if he actually had a decent spacing move with decent disjoint? Or how bad a charecter like DDD would become without his bair?

Single moves can make or break characters as long as the charecter isn't built stupid like mk who is so powerful I don't think you coils really hurt him by removing any one of his amazing moves... Stupid charecter...

Ganon has an incredible Uair and Dair, Link and Samus have Zairs, Link bombs, Squirt and Char amazing grab games...
Some of the best moves in the game belong to terrible characters.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Some of the best moves in the game belong to terrible characters.

Best moves in the game are like, Shuttle Loop, Nado, Falco Lasers, etc. All the VERY BEST moves all belong to Top/High tier characters, but characters with good moves that arent Top 5 or 10 but are top 20 or so belong to some bad characters.

 

[Rizen]

Best moves in the game are like, Shuttle Loop, Nado, Falco Lasers, etc. All the VERY BEST moves all belong to Top/High tier characters, but characters with good moves that arent Top 5 or 10 but are top 20 or so belong to some bad characters.

Imagine if MK has Ganon's Uair. He'd be hella broken, more so. Give Ganon's Uair to basically any character (replacing their Uair) and they'll get a huge boost. For the Uair category Ganon has the best, arguably with ZSS. Same thing applies to Dair or Samus' Zair, etc. Some low characters have incredible moves.
Granted MK and top tiers have broken moves too. that doesn't mean low characters don't have a few of the best attacks in their arsenals.

 

[Espy Rose]

Meta's uair is better than Ganon's.

 

[Z'zgashi]

^

And ZSS EASILY has a better uair than Ganon does lol.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Metaknight's is hella fast, Ganon's gimps.

Anyway, saying that good moves only pertain to top characters is dumb.
Good moves are good moves regardless of the character.
Good characters use to have several good moves and OPTIONS.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

^

And ZSS EASILY has a better uair than Ganon does lol.

The only uair anywhere near as good as zss' is mk's and that's because it's better... actually it's debatable, zss' uair is better but mk's uair is functionally better because MK is a character with 6 jumps. depends on how you look at it i guess

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Pikachu, Wario, IC and Olimar have very good uairs too. I think IC uair is just as good as ZSS' or MKs.

 

[DeLux]

Olimar's Uair is pretty bad imho

 

[Z'zgashi]

I dont think Id put Pika that high, but I do agree with ICs, Wario, and Oli (his is good because it beats like, everything, and has a huge disjoint since the pikmin is waaaay above Oli). Squirtle also has a REALLY good uair.

 

[Espy Rose]

Oli's uair isn't on the same level as the rest on that list.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

The reason I say ZSS and MK have such good uairs is because they fill so many different niches, + their statistical strengths... huge hitboxes, super fast, combo and string possibilities out the wazoo, kill-move KB scaling.

To be honest, the only other uairs I'd put anywhere near MK and ZSS is Squirtle and maybe Wario. ICs and Pikachu have good uairs... but if everyone wasn't trying to run from ICs all the time you'd never know it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You're wrong about ICs. Uair is a huge reason why they are such a good character beyond the CG. It makes their damage output quite versatile because it's fast, disjointed deals a lot of damage, can be used in tandem with the other climber and if fresh has pretty good knockback. It's very likely a top 3 uair in the game.