Official Standard Custom Moveset Project Initial Release

[Splash Damage]

I see no reason to have the replaceable sets be 2222 and 3333 to begin with. Instead we should have them be actual sets so that, in the event of a tourney that doesn't allow for importing via 3ds, then people will still have 2 more viable sets.

These sets should really be focused on minority groups (such as people who use Megaman's shadow blade) so that they have something to work with even though they can't import. I suggest taking their 'optimal' build (either that or their default) and then replace a single move with a less commonly used one.

For example: if the optimal set for a character is 1233, but their down special 2 is rarely used but there are enough people who use it to warrant representation then one of the replaceable sets would be 1232.

True, that seems more optimal and smart overall. Like, we could have 2121 for Macs who want to recover for some reason, and 3111 for anyone who knows some sort of tech that the rest of us don't. So, I think the two oddities-type set should replace 2222 and 3333 in my example.

 

[popsofctown]

If a tournament doesn't have time for people to upload their own sets, then the only recommended sets should be the ones with weak projectiles and high risk high reward moves because clearly the tournament doesn't have time for players to play Super Smash Bros for Wii U.

 

[Splash Damage]

Interesting point…

I still think we should have sets that are made in the case of tournaments disallowing importing, like I mentioned before. And we don't know this will even be a problem until we put it into practice. We could always name a custom set '1123' or '3223' or whatnot, so people will know if it's not their's.

The quirky 9-10 options are definitely important to exist, due to the possibility of denying imports at majors or time constrained events. However, it is just as important for the people who want to use the low priority sets to ensure that they will be able to use them by bringing their DS, as it is their responsibility to make sure they will be able to use them. What I mean is that the burden of insurance falls on the users of these uncommon sets, as they should know that they're using the most uncommon, low-priority sets in these events.

 

[Lavani]

I don’t think the D3 boards are gonna budge on our custom presets. @ Lavani , what do you think?

Smooth Criminal

If we're expanding to 8 sets, we'd have room to toss in 3312/3322; I don't think the current sets need changing.

Though I am curious as to if anyone's actually put Dedede Storm to use, I've heard the anti-Luma theorycraft but I haven't seen or even heard of it being used in practice yet.

 

[MajorMajora]

The quirky 9-10 options are definitely important to exist, due to the possibility of denying imports at majors or time constrained events. However, it is just as important for the people who want to use the low priority sets to ensure that they will be able to use them by bringing their DS, as it is their responsibility to make sure they will be able to use them. What I mean is that the burden of insurance falls on the users of these uncommon sets, as they should know that they're using the most uncommon, low-priority sets in these events.

I wholeheartedly agree, but I also think that there's no reason not to give them an extra safety net if we can. Once again, no tourney shouldn't allow imports, but something being a bad idea hasn't stopped people before.

 

[Splash Damage]

@ Thinkaman Seems like we're jumping to 8 sets per character as of now...Any thoughts on two new sets for Mac? I'm currently trying to push 2213, but I don't really have any other ideas. You have any insight?

 

[Radius-86]

@ Amazing Ampharos

A more methodical approach to this would be to find the one special that has a widely agreed upon best in slot. With the three remaining slots, find the inferior special and remove it. There will be 8 remaining combinations and they should take up slots 1 to 8. For most characters these guidelines are easy to establish because there is a clear cut best in slot and inferior options that don't really require much discussion or experimentation to establish. No further discussion is required because the remaining combinations are all accessible. Most discussion at this point is also theory with no real experience. This also works if a character has two best in slots, and the remaining two slots has a toss up between two moves and three moves (requires 6 combinations). Very few characters are more complex than this, and only those require more thorough investigation.

Mario for example:
3 Fire Orb inferior
1 Cape inferior
2 Super Jump inferior (this one is not unanimously agreed upon yet AFAIK, but it is the inferior option but I'm not going to get into it)
3 High-Pressure F.L.U.D.D. best in slot

Your 8 combinations are:
1213
1233
1313
1333
2213
2233
2313
2333

Also I highly recommend listing the combinations in lexicographical order because it is easier to read. If so desired, just denote the most popular with an asterisk or something.

Going from the list right now, there are already some characters with unanimous best in slots, and the remaining three moves only vary between two options. Expanding them to 8 combinations will complete the character for good. Some characters have outlier combinations (e.g. every set uses special move 1 except one set uses special move 3) which allow them to fall into only 8 combinations when removed.

 

[Splash Damage]

@ Amazing Ampharos

A more methodical approach to this would be to find the one special that has a widely agreed upon best in slot. With the three remaining slots, find the inferior special and remove it. There will be 8 remaining combinations and they should take up slots 1 to 8. For most characters these guidelines are easy to establish because there is a clear cut best in slot and inferior options that don't really require much discussion or experimentation to establish. No further discussion is required because the remaining combinations are all accessible. Most discussion at this point is also theory with no real experience. This also works if a character has two best in slots, and the remaining two slots has a toss up between two moves and three moves (requires 6 combinations). Very few characters are more complex than this, and only those require more thorough investigation.

I think I'll start doing some investigation on this, it seems to be the only factually correct way to do this in general discussion. Reason I say that is because there are some outliers, first ones that come to mind being Palutena with all of her customs having at least two excellent options and Ike having 2222 as his overall best option. That being said, this does seem to work with all the character examples I've seen at least.

 

[MajorMajora]

@ Amazing Ampharos

A more methodical approach to this would be to find the one special that has a widely agreed upon best in slot. With the three remaining slots, find the inferior special and remove it. There will be 8 remaining combinations and they should take up slots 1 to 8. For most characters these guidelines are easy to establish because there is a clear cut best in slot and inferior options that don't really require much discussion or experimentation to establish. No further discussion is required because the remaining combinations are all accessible. Most discussion at this point is also theory with no real experience. This also works if a character has two best in slots, and the remaining two slots has a toss up between two moves and three moves (requires 6 combinations). Very few characters are more complex than this, and only those require more thorough investigation.

Mario for example:
3 Fire Orb inferior
1 Cape inferior
2 Super Jump inferior (this one is not unanimously agreed upon yet AFAIK, but it is the inferior option but I'm not going to get into it)
3 High-Pressure F.L.U.D.D. best in slot

Your 8 combinations are:
1213
1233
1313
1333
2213
2233
2313
2333

Also I highly recommend listing the combinations in lexicographical order because it is easier to read. If so desired, just denote the most popular with an asterisk or something.

Going from the list right now, there are already some characters with unanimous best in slots, and the remaining three moves only vary between two options. Expanding them to 8 combinations will complete the character for good. Some characters have outlier combinations (e.g. every set uses special move 1 except one set uses special move 3) which allow them to fall into only 8 combinations when removed.

Took me a while to get that, but I think that sounds like a good way of doing it, but only for characters where it definitely works. I worry we'll try to fit characters into this mold who would best work with some other method. It's always good to have access to a wide range of methods, so thanks for your addition.

 

[Splash Damage]

Took me a while to get that, but I think that sounds like a good way of doing it, but only for characters where it definitely works. I worry we'll try to fit characters into this mold who would best work with some other method. It's always good to have access to a wide range of methods, so thanks for your addition.

I'll be spending some time in the lab trying to find more methods of deduction, but of course the best way to determine the definitive sets consistently will always be through specific, careful placement of customs. That being said, once we mothodically nail down the 8 starter sets, we'll be able to do this pretty handily.

 

[Piford]

I think the method of having 8 sets with 2 extra sets could be good. Smaller tournaments would use the 8 sets and leave the extra 2 open for experimentation. Larger tournaments seem to only want custom moves if people can't import sets to avoid equipment fraud (although very easy to detect) and save time. So larger tournaments would use all 10 sets and not allow for importation (although that would be nice, I doubt it would happen at least at first). So basically players attend their local tournies and experiment with their weird sets, and then discuss them on Smashboards. Then if their weird set is deemed more worthy of a spot than a pre-existing set, it will be swapped out in the next "season" of custom moves.

 

[Thinkaman]

Equipment fraud is a baseless concern. But saving time is not. Importing a set is only 50 seconds or so, but that's still 50 seconds. National events have to be streamlined around the worst-case time requirements.

Unlike say, a regional, where one random guy using a wacky set is irrelevant and manageable.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

52 characters x 10 sets x 50 seconds = 26000 seconds/60 = ~434 minutes = ~7.2 hours.

Each character would take about 10 minutes. Going by what Thinkaman has said.

So yeah. Anywhere between 7.2 to 8.6 hours to import every set. If my math is correct.

 

[Raijinken]

52 characters x 10 sets x 50 seconds = 26000 seconds/60 = ~434 minutes = ~7.2 hours.

Each character would take about 10 minutes. Going by what Thinkaman has said.

So yeah. Anywhere between 7.2 to 8.6 hours to import every set. If my math is correct.

Sets are imported en-masse, so you're basically off by the 10x (disregarding there only currently being 51 characters in the game).

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Sets are imported en-masse, so you're basically off by the 10x (disregarding there only currently being 51 characters in the game).

Oh okay. Didn't know how that worked. That's not too too bad then. So only about an hour at most lol.

(Also I am remaining hopeful )

 

[Teshie U]

??? how does importing a set take 50 seconds. Shouldn't it take like 20 tops if its already made? My 3ds is in sleep mode on the wii u linkup screen at all times.

 

[megel]

i don't mind use sonic someone point that out I didn't know my blue hedgehog can double spring with burner spin dash nice

 

[GeneralLedge]

I don't know about anyone else, but after finally unlocking all the custom moves on my WiiU (Two straight weeks), I've been entering these move sets in a more numeric order than the order listed. It seems more organized that way, like if I'm looking for "1-1-2-2" on something, it'd be easier to find if it's near the top than working off of 'desirability'.

 

[TheASDF]

There's only 6 to scroll through. Potentially 8, later. And it'll increase the speed for most people if the set that's gonna be used the most is at the top. It's not too hard to just remember where your set is in the list, either, if you're gonna use it often.

 

[Raijinken]

Listing them numerically makes sense, too, though at this point I'm more inclined (since it's my setup) to just put my sets at the top and everyone else's lower.

 

[GeneralLedge]

Same "only 6 to scroll through" argument could be applied in either direction, really.

 

[TheASDF]

Right, but the ones that are most used are ostensibly gonna be at the top, meaning most people will save a handful of seconds. But yeah, the time saved is negligible. *shrug*

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

50 seconds includes the load times and such associated with moving to and from the character select screen as well as the time for the Wii U to actually find the 3ds. If you start from the character select screen and end when you actually select your character (including moveset), it takes 50 seconds to upload a set from 3ds. This is the total real time cost in a tournament of 3ds upload on the spot. Of course, uploading en masse before the event has the double advantage of actually moving more than one at a time, only having to link the 3ds once, and having to navigate considerably fewer menus. When you factor that in, it takes 12-13 minutes to fully set up a Wii U with pre-sets if everything is built on the 3ds in advance.

 

[thehard]

Anyone know if tomorrow's Shockwave will have customs on again? @ Oracle ?

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

Anyone know if tomorrow's Shockwave will have customs on again? @ Oracle ?

I would sure hope it does. Shockwave 17 was awesome with them.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

IIRC there was another tournament tomorrow running customs. Was it Xanadu?

@ Amazing Ampharos do you have a ballpark guesstimate on when the next revision will be? Mostly for the sake of EVO.

 

[Oracle]

Anyone know if tomorrow's Shockwave will have customs on again? @ Oracle ?

Yeah, theyll all have customs in the coming weeks

 

[thehard]

Yeah, theyll all have customs in the coming weeks

The best.

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

IIRC there was another tournament tomorrow running customs. Was it Xanadu?

Isn't Xanadu Tuesday & Wednesdays only?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Isn't Xanadu Tuesday & Wednesdays only?

I have no idea, I just remember that there was like three weeks of Friday tournaments that would be using customs for the first time.

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

I have no idea, I just remember that there was like three weeks of Friday tournaments that would be using customs for the first time.

OH, WAIT, they have a monthly, too. Yeah, I heard that was set to have customs.

 

[Splash Damage]

@ Amazing Ampharos do you have a ballpark guesstimate on when the next revision will be? Mostly for the sake of EVO.

I second this request, I'd like to put in some more input about Mac and Dr.Mario.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Mr. Wizard confirmed customs are on for EVO unless something goes horribly wrong between now and then. It may be worth trying to coordinate directly with him in some fashion.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Better get to work on that testing, guys.

Anyone who trots out that "it's too early to run customs" excuse for upcoming tournaments needs to be set straight. We need hard data within the next month.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Can't say I didn't see that coming. This project is definitely important, and a full set of 10 per character seems like what we're looking for in the specific case of EVO.

 

[Splash Damage]

Mr. Wizard confirmed customs are on for EVO unless something goes horribly wrong between now and then. It may be worth trying to coordinate directly with him in some fashion.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

With EVO announcing that customs are legal for now, we should be seeing more events beginning to try out custom legal tournaments, especially after events like Xanadu show them off.

 

[Splash Damage]

If the EVO ruleset allows customs, we're going to ride this point hard and get customs back.

Well, today's your lucky day, they're confirmed legal for Evo.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

With EVO announcing that customs are legal for now, we should be seeing more events beginning to try out custom legal tournaments, especially after events like Xanadu show them off.

This is true. If the next major national has customs allowed, then you can bet that the locals and regionals will follow suit so the players can adjust and practice.

 

[19_]

Idea.

Someone should make a tutorial video about using the powersave 3ds to unlock customs.
I am pretty sure some people don't know powersaves exist.