Official Stage Legality Discussion

[nick_phizz]

Eh I doubt it'll happen so go prepare!!!

 

[infomon]

It's from here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211437&page=8

What I meant about complaining is that people have gotten very critical of the SBR lately. Maybe they're finally listening to something?

Hmmmm, okay, that's fine then. Listening to the general mistrust of the SBR's commitment to Brawl is fair enough. Listening to ppl whine about stages, ie. allowing popularity to determine ban-worthiness, is a bit sketchier. Just sayin'.

 

[deepseadiva]

Ooooohhhhh, no wonder Panda said that.

Have you people seen this thread in GenDisc?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211533

We'll be getting a new ruleset January the 5th! Along with a tier list.

Two weeks! I wonder what they'll do.

 

[Kage Me]

I was just thinking, since some stages got counterpick'd for very simple things (Pokemon Stadium 1), then why don't we take a second look at Yoshi's Island? I think it has the most potential out of all of the neutral stages to be a counterpick. I wanted to see people's opinions on it.

There really isn't that much counterpick about it, just these two things:
1. Platform that randomly comes out off the side. Can save/hurt people in different situations
2. Shy Guys that can potentialy block projectiles.

I am in agreement that it should stay neutral, but I'm just think that if some stages got counterpick for little things, why not Yoshi's Island?

Discuss.

The Shy Guys don't seem like much of a problem, since you can easily see them coming. The Support Ghost, however, is quite a bother. It'll save you from Meteor Smashes, and even more commonly from edgeguarding and edgehogging (especially with tethering characters).

Yoshi's Island, moreso than any other Neutral, should be put into the Neutral/Counterpick spot, to be decided by the tournament hosts.

 

[Roihu]

How come Rainbow Cruise isn't banned but the moving Mario Bros stage 1 is?
I also see Green Hill Zone as more ban worthy than Bridge of Eldin, but that may just be because I haven't faced any spammers.

 

[Mr.T 07]

NOOOOOOO!!! not sumnit!!!

 

[Kage Me]

NOOOOOOO!!! not sumnit!!!

I love the Summit, too.

.....Just not when I'm playing as Olimar.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

...Why would Rainbow Cruise ever be banned? Why would you even suggest banning Rainbow Cruise?

And yea, if you play a competent D3 on either of the stages you mentioned(GHZ or Bridge) then you'll know why both of them have equal banning potential and why neither should ever be legal. CHAINGRAB!!!!

 

[The Milk Monster]

As long as you're not playing Falco, DDD, or Pit on Bridge it can be tolerable, but forget that course.
Green Hill Zone, Dedede will be like, "Hey, you lose."

 

[MysticKenji]

How come Rainbow Cruise isn't banned but the moving Mario Bros stage 1 is?

Mushroomy Kingdom has a lot more flaws than Cruise does.

 

[hizzlum]

...Why would Rainbow Cruise ever be banned? Why would you even suggest banning Rainbow Cruise?

And yea, if you play a competent D3 on either of the stages you mentioned(GHZ or Bridge) then you'll know why both of them have equal banning potential and why neither should ever be legal. CHAINGRAB!!!!

uthrow with MK kills at the first part of the stage at 0%, i believe its on the verge of cuonterpick/ban because it allows such easy kills for MK and close blast zones make his fresh dsmash lethal even with DI and momentum reduction by means of aerials at 120%

 

[:mad:]

Mushroomy Kingdom, the underground stage, has just too many flaws to be considered legal.
Rainbow Cruise isn't completely terrible, it's a pain for any slow character with bad jumps. So I'd keep Rainbow Cruise.

MK in general kills on Rainbow Cruise, so yeah, that's my only problem with it.

 

[Xona]

...Why would Rainbow Cruise ever be banned? Why would you even suggest banning Rainbow Cruise?

And yea, if you play a competent D3 on either of the stages you mentioned(GHZ or Bridge) then you'll know why both of them have equal banning potential and why neither should ever be legal. CHAINGRAB!!!!

I agree with you about rainbow cruise, there is no decent ban reason for that stage.

Now as for GHZ, I don't think it should necessarily be banned even if Dedede's d-throw infinite is allowed because the divide interrupts the walk-off. You can also use it to avoid grabs. The divide's only temporary and it only interrupts land-based attacks.

fd is easily less allowable under the arguement of infinites, as there are absolutely no slopes, platforms, or gaps/divides that can be used against Dedede. This wouldn't be a problem if you're using Pit, or Lucario for example. But if you're using: Bowser, Mario, Luigi, Samus or DK, then you've probably lost already (If Bowser or DK, you might as well hit START, then L+R+A+START) It's unwinnable entirely. The same applies to bridge.

This is why either A.) fd should be banned alongside bridge or B.) Dedede's infinite and maybe all other infinites (except Ice Climbers's and laser-lock because you can do a lot of things to avoid them) should be banned and every stage banned because of infinites should be unbanned. or C.) "Who cares about infinites?!" (NOT!!) Even though I hate fd (I actally refuse to capitalize it), I prefer option B (C was a joke).

 

[Ace Of Flames]

Ban norfair japes and brinstar

 

[Ace Of Flames]

NOOOOOOO!!! not sumnit!!!

Summit sucks.

 

[Ace Of Flames]

why is bridge of eldin banned? its f if its cuz the bomb. it is realy easy to dodge

Its because of walk off

 

[Ace Of Flames]

How come Rainbow Cruise isn't banned

Because if you're not stupid, it's easy to keep up

 

[deepseadiva]

Ace, use quotes.

Stop QUADRUPLE posting.

 

[Barge]

Lol, I can imagine some people having trouble keeping up with rainbow cruise. It goes at like 1 MPH people.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

Ban norfair japes and brinstar

I assume you don't like DK.

 

[DBZ0wnz]

What are Lucas Stage's?

 

[deepseadiva]

Uh. Lucas's stage is officially New Pork City. It's not legal though...

Anyways, let's try and move away from all the n00biness shall we?

As we know from this thread, the SBR is going to be releasing a new ruleset, along with a new stage list January 5th. Below, the current list, and my predictions as to what we'll see changed next year in color.

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Starter/Counter
Castle Siege
Delfino
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1

Counter
Brinstar
Corneria
Distant Planet
Frigate Orpheon
Green Hill Zone
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion
Norfair
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)

Counter/Banned
Green Greens
Mario Circuit
Onett
Port Town Aero Dive
Skyworld

Banned
75m
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Flat Zone 2
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Spear Pillar
The Summit
Wario Ware

Corneria is getting banned. Look at Panda's comment here.

Mario Circuit should have never been considered. Seriously SBR. WTF?

Everything with a walkoff is hinging on what exactly the SBR considers fair.

The Counter/Banned list is going to be destroyed. Everything there is going to finally be decided on as either counter or banned. No more indecisiveness.

Hanenbow has an actual chance of being considered for unbanning.

We'll see in 13 days.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

I'm getting anxious about the new rule set. Most of my best stages are very debatable about whether or not they should be legal. I have a feeling I'm going to lose a lot of my best CPs, but I'll have to wait and see.

 

[PD4FR]

If they ban Delfino, I quit, lol.

Anyways, I pretty much agree with your list, Meno.

 

[Mr. Rogu]

thats a pretty good prediction there MenoUnderwater but theres a few stages i would change:
pictochat be banned, period.
jungle japes, luigis mansion, and pirate ship i think should also be banned but if there not, i wont really care.

Hanonbow actually has a chance of being unbanned? uh oh, a couple of my friends wont like that.

 

[Kage Me]

While we're on the subject of walk-off stages, how does Castle Siege fit in all of this? Specifically, the second part of Castle Siege...

 

[DuskMarthWater]

On GHZ...why can't people understand that D3 will finish all three of your stocks off before the stage even has a chance to break? It really doesn't matter if the stage breaks, because it won't get to in a competent match.

I am definitely glad that they are changing some of those stages Meno. DEFINITELY.

If you want to know good Lucas stages, then ask around in the Lucas character forums. They should be able to help there.

And I don't think that MK can kill at 0% on RC anywhere. An up throw from MK does not have near enough knockback on it to kill someone at zero percent. He can tornado you off the top if you let him get you in the air that high, but that's not very likely to happen. I'll check that though if you want.

Pictochat has nothing ban-worthy about it. Neither does Luigi's Mansion. Pirate Ship and Japes are a little more debatable, but only a little more.

Castle Siege's second stage does not last for long and you can just camp on the upper ledges until it changes to avoid D3. It's like Delfino Plaza, which also is not banned.

 

[Fenrir VII]

While we're on the subject of walk-off stages, how does Castle Siege fit in all of this? Specifically, the second part of Castle Siege...

It has been my stance that Sieg's walk off's are temporary, and in an area with many safer platforms in it. You can easily platform-camp for the duration of that area without too much trouble.

The main problem comes from CGs and combos during transformation, imo...but the stage is still not unfair to or for any one character, and not random enough to warrant a ban

 

[infomon]

On GHZ...why can't people understand that D3 will finish all three of your stocks off before the stage even has a chance to break? It really doesn't matter if the stage breaks, because it won't get to in a competent match.

.... except against the characters who don't get chaingrabbed by D3.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Okay those of you who were talking about Smash Balls being tournament-allowed, it goes against the no-items rule BECAUSE SMASH BALLS ARE ITEMS.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

thats a pretty good prediction there MenoUnderwater but theres a few stages i would change:
pictochat be banned, period.
jungle japes, luigis mansion, and pirate ship i think should also be banned but if there not, i wont really care.

Thats what I'm talking about, all of DK's advantage stages are looking at a ban except possibly Norfair. I'm waiting kind of nervously on this new list.

And I don't think that MK can kill at 0% on RC anywhere. An up throw from MK does not have near enough knockback on it to kill someone at zero percent. He can tornado you off the top if you let him get you in the air that high, but that's not very likely to happen. I'll check that though if you want.

Pictochat has nothing ban-worthy about it. Neither does Luigi's Mansion. Pirate Ship and Japes are a little more debatable, but only a little more.

I think MK and Kirby both have 0 kills on RC with there Uthrow. Last I checked at least.

 

[Fenrir VII]

is the uthrow kill on Cruise also a suicide for them?

It works because the uthrow lands on the VERY high platform, instead of back on the ship.. therefore, you are just under the blast line, and die...

I can't remember if it counts as a SD for MK or Kirby (does it work with Kirby?) though.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Hmmm...I'll have to check it out. However, I would imagine that you only have a window of about 5-10 seconds to get that off, and I would also assume that you must be on the very right of the ship to be where the platform is anyways. I also want to check if it is a suicide for either of them. Hmmm...

 

[Sinz]

is the uthrow kill on Cruise also a suicide for them?

It works because the uthrow lands on the VERY high platform, instead of back on the ship.. therefore, you are just under the blast line, and die...

I can't remember if it counts as a SD for MK or Kirby (does it work with Kirby?) though.

There is a specific spot you have to do it at, or it pretty useless

FYI

 

[Teaddiction]

New Pork City - If you are not playing in a wide big TV is hard to see you plus the oponent will be waiting for you to get eated alive by that freaking pink monster, lol.
Mario Bros. - Come on! the turtles and red crabs will beat the crap out of you in seconds.
Flat Zone 2 - Those guys in the stage are sooooooooo anoying and of course one hot to the side and you are out.
Rumble Falls - You don´t fight here, you just jump, praying to not get hit by a spike
Pirate Ship - Cannonballs can do around 50% damage No way!
Mushroomy Kingdom - I hate this kind of stages where you have to be running instead of fighting
Norfair - The freaking laba...but its funny to fight inside the blue capsule!
Spear Pillar -The stage is awesome...but those Pokemon have something againts Brawl players.
Green Hill Zone - IMO players can be waiting behind the bombs and thats soooo boring
Pokemon Stadium 2- I like this one but its so had to play when it switches into wind or ice type
Halberd - I don´t have problems with this one except for the "claw ".
Mute city- You can´t cross the street without looking both sides or the cars will kill you!

 

[Galaxy]

is the uthrow kill on Cruise also a suicide for them?

It works because the uthrow lands on the VERY high platform, instead of back on the ship.. therefore, you are just under the blast line, and die...

I can't remember if it counts as a SD for MK or Kirby (does it work with Kirby?) though.

It works for Kirby. To my knowledge it doesn't kill him, either.

 

[What's The Point]

Why exactly is Big Blue banned?

Some searching says it's because hitting the road means death. This is true near the left side, or further out if you hit the ground tumbling, eventually to a point where even if tumbled you can live. You can really only hit the road tumbling when spiked or sometimes pushed off a car, though there is a chance for teching. It really just seems like a stronger Jungle Japes river (Faster(?) and closer to the safe ground), but with teching options and no OHKO.

At some point some one said there are circling options, which occasionally occur (Falcon Flyer, black circle thing, and unusually high solo platforms), though the stage moves so these are never permanent.

Seems mostly like that it was banned in melee, and it's generally unliked, so it's stuck with banned. Or reasons I just stated, and overall it's not close enough to Jungle Japes/Rainbow Cruise to warrant legalization.

 

[nick_phizz]

Because people suck too hard to be able to avoid being hit down there. If you don't want to get knocked off a car, fight in the air.

 

[Kage Me]

Big Blue is very, very rightfully banned...

 

[Deoxys]

Uh. Lucas's stage is officially New Pork City. It's not legal though...

Anyways, let's try and move away from all the n00biness shall we?

As we know from this thread, the SBR is going to be releasing a new ruleset, along with a new stage list January 5th. Below, the current list, and my predictions as to what we'll see changed next year in color.

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Starter/Counter
Castle Siege
Delfino
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1

Counter
Brinstar
Corneria
Distant Planet
Frigate Orpheon
Green Hill Zone
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion
Norfair
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)

Counter/Banned
Green Greens
Mario Circuit
Onett
Port Town Aero Dive
Skyworld

Banned
75m
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Flat Zone 2
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Spear Pillar
The Summit
Wario Ware

Corneria is getting banned. Look at Panda's comment here.

Mario Circuit should have never been considered. Seriously SBR. WTF?

Everything with a walkoff is hinging on what exactly the SBR considers fair.

The Counter/Banned list is going to be destroyed. Everything there is going to finally be decided on as either counter or banned. No more indecisiveness.

Hanenbow has an actual chance of being considered for unbanning.

We'll see in 13 days.

I think it's safe to say that Onett will be banned. I mean it's almost as bad as Mario Circuit or GHZ. I hope they make the right calls with Skyworld (and less likely, PTAD). Unfortunately, I honestly think Green Greens could be left as the only Counter/Banned....

Where did you hear this Hanenbow stuff? Is it really not possible to circle-camp on?

It works for Kirby. To my knowledge it doesn't kill him, either.

Where is it performed‽

Because people suck too hard to be able to avoid being hit down there. If you don't want to get knocked off a car, fight in the air.

Sorry I didn't get back to you yet. My life has been really stressful lately and I haven't had nearly as much time for SWF as I would like.