[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

Probably won't happen; Simple as that. However you're not really arguing that she has insane chances or anything so I don't mind.

I'm not saying she's a shoo in or anything. I just think she'd make a good clone candidate if they have extra time like when they did Melee.

I'm still confused on the whole "SNAKE IS DEAD" thing with the franchise. I can't get it for the life of me. Still It's interesting I suppose since he is dead even with the ending Mother 3 pulling off the whole "World comes back" - Don't think it'd matter much still. It'd be more of those funfacts.

...What else can it possibly be to more than that?

I believe at the end of MGS4, Snake just goes off somewhere to die while Otacon is with him for his last days because of his clone deterioration. That world rebirth is really vague. Some people interpret that characters like Hinawa were brought back to life while others don't believe such.

Now that I think about it, you could argue that Smash Snake is simply another clone thus pulling a Link and Zelda on him.

 

[Starphoenix]

I believe at the end of MGS4, Snake just goes off somewhere to die while Otacon is with him for his last days because of his clone deterioration. That world rebirth is really vague. Some people interpret that characters like Hinawa were brought back to life while others don't believe such.

Now that I think about it, you could argue that Smash Snake is simply another clone thus pulling a Link and Zelda on him.

Since when has a characters death in his/her series had an impact on the Smash universe?

 

[Cyn]

They had Bowser fight Giga Bowser in Melee.

Yes, but that didn't make it right.

 

[Big-Cat]

Since when has a characters death in his/her series had an impact on the Smash universe?

Well, it's never happened in Smash, but that's a really weak argument. Could it work without it being awkward once you think about it?

Then again, no one thought much, or so I hear, with Charlie in the Street Fighter Alpha series which took place before his "death."

 

[MysteryTigerTeen]

C'mon Viewtiful Joe!

 

[DekuBoy]

Wouldn't a character being dead only make their Smash appearance MORE exciting?

 

[Pieman0920]

I wouldn't see why a character being dead would or would not effect their chances. I honestly don't think it matters in the slightest, unless their death caused them to have too few apperances or not enough relivance. (Think Cackletta from M&L. If she apperanced along with Fawful in the future games, she'd be a candidate, but thanks to the fact that she's dead, there's really no good way to write her into the story) Ganondorf most of the time is pretty much the equivilent of dead by the end of his games, and that doesn't really mean anything. If a character is actually worth their salt to actually be in Smash, it should make no difference as to what their current mortality status is.

 

[Gallowglass]

Spoiler Alert for Metal Gear Twin Snakes, and NES Legend of Zelda!!!!!




Dead character doesn't matter in Smash bros as you look at Grey Fox. He was nothing more then bubblegum under Metal Gear's foot at the end of the game. As for Ganondorf he never really dies in games though. Sure he gets stabbed in the face, heart, coffing up blood, and turn to stone but all it does is weaken him enough to seal him away. The only time he truely dies is in the original NES Zelda where he was turn into a pile of ashes and even then they could resurrect him. It's pretty handy to have the ultimate power of a god.

 

[Big-Cat]

Just so we're clear, I'm just saying that it's weird to have a dead character. I'm sure I'd get used to it and all. Now that you mention Grey Fox though, I suppose it doesn't matter.

EDIT: Not only that, but it against my idea of inclusion over exclusion. By this, I mean being open minded about several possibilities and not knocking them down based on "logic" or something.

 

[DekuBoy]

Kuma didn't you use to be a HUGE Masked Man supporter? You used to post on the thread started by that guy whose name I've forgotten....

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm not against him. Was for a while in favor of Kumatora, but I could see them coexisting providing she's a clone. Now Porky, I'm against for the most part unless someone convinces me in a way that he's not too bulky in his mech.

 

[Hazo]

They should have a option for special brawl where you fight in 3D. Would'nt customizing a character or creating your own character be pretty cool? One more thing is team final smashes.

 

[Big-Cat]

3D? Lol 2-hit confirm->40 hit juggle-> Up B for finish
Customizing seems like it would defeat the purpose of Super Smash Bros. which is supposed to be a crossover. OC should be kept at a minimum.
Team Final Smashes sound like more trouble than they're worth. Assuming that the roster will have 50 characters (give or take), you would have to have 2500 different combination available which just isn't worth it when you need to work on balancing and fine tuning other aspects of the game.

 

[lordvaati]

I'm thinking of a new Final Smash idea, where there are 2 different kinds: one you can do on the ground, and one in the air. would that be cool?

also, that team FS idea would go pretty well with that tag battle mode idea I mentioned in my youtube vid.

 

[Cyn]

C'mon Viewtiful Joe!

I'm with you. It's unfortunate that he is already in some Capcom vs. ______ games.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm thinking of a new Final Smash idea, where there are 2 different kinds: one you can do on the ground, and one in the air. would that be cool?

Could be pretty broken in some cases. I'd just go the route where you picked your Final Smash when you select your character.

I'm with you. It's unfortunate that he is already in some Capcom vs. ______ games.

How is that unfortunate, and he's only been in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I just think she'd make a good clone candidate if they have extra time like when they did Melee.

...Actually Melee was a lack of time; not extra time.

At any rate I doubt that will happen, and even then, why pick Kumatora? She stands out almost as much as a random pokemon. It's also how much Jeff, Duster, Lloyd, Teddy, and so on stand out.

but hey it's not bad to keep holding onto that dream. You still need to play it. Only a few more days.

 

[NovaRyumaru]

Wishlist:
Yoshi
The ability to mess with textures without hacks(yeah right...)
Better online
Balanced character board without characters having the ability the shut out any otehr character almost flawlessly.
Defensive/campy play not being almost brokenly rewarding compared to offensive.
No random tripping
No chain grabbing
If they keep final smashes, fix the near worthless ones. >_o

 

[Pieman0920]

I'm not against him. Was for a while in favor of Kumatora, but I could see them coexisting providing she's a clone. Now Porky, I'm against for the most part unless someone convinces me in a way that he's not too bulky in his mech.

Like this.

...Though I'd prefer Andy in a modified Neo-Tank doing this, personally.

I'm with you. It's unfortunate that he is already in some Capcom vs. ______ games.

While I don't think Joe has much of a chance, the fact that he was in TvC is actually a plus, since it shows that he is popular enough to get into a game like that.

 

[Big-Cat]

...Actually Melee was a lack of time; not extra time.

At any rate I doubt that will happen, and even then, why pick Kumatora? She stands out almost as much as a random pokemon. It's also how much Jeff, Duster, Lloyd, Teddy, and so on stand out.

but hey it's not bad to keep holding onto that dream. You still need to play it. Only a few more days.

Didn't they have some extra time to throw in a few clones? I know the games was rushed, and so was Brawl, but I remember distinctly hearing that's how the clones came to be.

Why Kumatora though? Considering that Lucas pretty much has her moveset (which infuriated me since he has none of his own moves), she wouldn't require much of a change in order to be a semi-clone. Change some normals, make her down B PK Ground, and give her Starstorm while giving Lucas Love.

Also, how can you compare her to a random Pokemon? You're better off comparing Cain/Abel in Shadow Dragon to a random Pokemon.

Like this.

Looking at Porky's mech though, the body of the mech is too huge if you were to keep Porky's body size the same as Ness and Lucas. Downsizing him would be weird. It'd be like Porky was born a ******. At least with Ridley, he and Samus are different species.

 

[Pieman0920]

Looking at Porky's mech though, the body of the mech is too huge if you were to keep Porky's body size the same as Ness and Lucas. Downsizing him would be weird. It'd be like Porky was born a ******. At least with Ridley, he and Samus are different species.

If they used a modified version of this spider-mech, I don't see how it would be that much of a problem. It would be probably Bowser sized though.

 

[ElPanandero]

@Pieman

Are you against Andy on foot? Or would you just prefer neo-tank Andy?

 

[Big-Cat]

Okay, that one can work. I was thinking strictly his MOTHER 3 mech. I'd like to see a working moveset though, but you don't have to make up anything.

 

[Pieman0920]

I would just prefer Andy in a modified neo-tank. I think it would fit him better given how he's a mechanic. If he was to be on foot though, I wouldn't really complain.

As far as a Porky moveset in the mech would go, I really can't say much, since I never played the original Earthbound. I would assume that some of the moves he used in SSE could still be used in weaker forms though, even with the different mech. What I always though would be pretty cool though is if he had a tether recovery using something that basically is like Samus's grapple beam, but in the form of spider threading.

 

[ElPanandero]

I want to see a real summoning move like the little porky bots in the story mode. (There aren't any yet right?)

 

[TCRhade]

I want to see a real summoning move like the little porky bots in the story mode. (There aren't any yet right?)

DDD used one, with his Waddle Dee Throw.

 

[ElPanandero]

I don't count that. I want an AI being that actually does something >.>

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

...Actually Melee was a lack of time; not extra time.

At any rate I doubt that will happen, and even then, why pick Kumatora? She stands out almost as much as a random pokemon. It's also how much Jeff, Duster, Lloyd, Teddy, and so on stand out.

but hey it's not bad to keep holding onto that dream. You still need to play it. Only a few more days.

Kuma is correct, it was extra time:
http://forum.starmen.net/forum/Stor...ing-a-comprehensive-list-of-unused-characters

Why Kumatora though? Considering that Lucas pretty much has her moveset (which infuriated me since he has none of his own moves), she wouldn't require much of a change in order to be a semi-clone. Change some normals, make her down B PK Ground, and give her Starstorm while giving Lucas Love.

Also, how can you compare her to a random Pokemon? You're better off comparing Cain/Abel in Shadow Dragon to a random Pokemon.

Replace Kumatora with Paula and Lucas with Ness and see how that first paragraph looks.

There's no particular reason to have any specific party member, they're all on equal footing. Technically, if moveset stuffs were a factor, we'd get Jeff/Duster/etc. Really can't see why anyone would logically think they'd just go with her.

pokey.gif

If they used a modified version of this spider-mech, I don't see how it would be that much of a problem. It would be probably Bowser sized though.

This is pretty much how I figured he'd work, sans Spidey Tether. Bowser-size would be perfect.

 

[Cyn]

How is that unfortunate, and he's only been in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom.

Sorry. You're right. I don't follow the Capcom vs. games but I knew he was in at least one of them.

I say it's unfortunate only because he is in a different fighter series. I would think it lessens his chances. Besides that, and more likely, Capcom would probably only port over one character and I think most people would want Mega Man. Alas, I'm just speculating. If you look way back you can see I supported Viewtiful Joe as playable and got told the same thing, more or less, about Capcom vs., which I thought was a viable reason for him not to make an appearance (especially if he is to become a mainstay in the Capcom vs. games). Then again, I could make the same argument against MM, but his roots are deep with Nintendo. Honestly I think Joe would fit in great in Smash.

Genshin a go-go baby!!!!

 

[ElPanandero]

Interesting... A lot of people on Starman.net want Masked Man, but most of us here were adamantly opposed to him.

http://forum.starmen.net/forum/Games/Mother2/Super-Smash-Bros-4

 

[Big-Cat]

Replace Kumatora with Paula and Lucas with Ness and see how that first paragraph looks.

There's no particular reason to have any specific party member, they're all on equal footing. Technically, if moveset stuffs were a factor, we'd get Jeff/Duster/etc. Really can't see why anyone would logically think they'd just go with her.

I was aware of that. At least Ness has Yo-yos, a bat, and PK Flash to call his own. Lucas just has his stick.

As for why they may go for her, it would be for popularity. I'm not saying she's the most popular or something. I'm just saying that popular characters stand a chance. For the series that already have their main characters in, we may start seeing significantly popular supporting characters. I wouldn't knock anything down just yet.

Still, as I've said before, alt. characters would fix up this issue big time.

@twiz
I still say his existence in TvC is completely irrelevant. If anything, at least they've devised a moveset for him that could easily be adapted for Smash. Don't forget also that Viewtiful Joe started on the Gamecube. Though, the only way I see him getting in anything SSB related is if Nintendo vs. Capcom. To be honest, there a lot of good Capcom characters that could work for SSB like Megaman, Ryu, Chun-Li, Viewtiful Joe, Phoenix Wright, etc and NvC is pretty much the only way that can happen.

 

[SmashChu]

Oh no, not KOSMOS. She's still owned by Namco, I'm talking about those other two guys...let's see...Reiji and Xaiomu.

Don't really know how important or popular they are though.

Not sure this was ever mentioned, but since they are in Namco x Capcom, I assume someone owns the rights to them, most likely Namco. Any character or series Monolith made up during their stay with Namco is probably owned by Namco as they are a subsidiary with them. They may have joint rights, but I doubt Nintendo would gain anything from them in terms of licenses.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Stuff

But truth be told they're all (Jeff, Duster, Paula, Teddy, etc) on equal footing. They are no higher than Claus or Pokey. They're mostly/silent throughout the whole game. There is hardly anything to separate them.

The only difference to the Pokemon example is that there's more of them.

We're not completely ruling out the possibility of it happening, It's just very very very slim. But hey, your favorite character is your favorite character. I still hang on in a bit of bias for Claus and a Square-Enix character.

Still, as I've said before, alt. characters would fix up this issue big time.

Wait, issue? It's not really an issue. I mean I agree that at least Alt Personalities/Sides/Etc would be great but I don't see how it's particularly needed.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wait, issue? It's not really an issue. I mean I agree that at least Alt Personalities/Sides/Etc would be great but I don't see how it's particularly needed.

It's not really needed, but a lot of people would probably be satisfied if their favorite characters were alt. models. I wouldn't say it's top priority at all.

 

[augustoflores]

during the events of mother 3, doesn't she appear to be 15-17? im wondering how she would be alt for lucas. what i want for her is C. Viper's moves but PK-ish. a true brawler. not a clone, or alt. if anything, i would want Lucas /alt Ness only if they dont give lucas his actual moves. anyways, 15-17, she is taller than lucas right? with breasts? yeah, breasts...

just curious (and for future consequences... (don't ask))...was i the first to mention alt characters in this thread as far as you have been in this thread? around my first posts i had spoken about them.

 

[Big-Cat]

Nah, I've brought it up several times before you came. It's not a new concept at all.

The size issue though does concern me, but it depends on how tall she is relative to Lucas. Remember that Lucas is about 13 in Brawl and guys are taller than girls on average. But anyway, what do you guys think about a tutorial mode?

 

[augustoflores]

tutorial? is that different from practice mode? will we still have practice mode?

give in detail what tutorial mode is.
___________
(you know what would be really cool, a megaman universe fighting game. in the event where megaman can fight storm eagle or Blaze Heatnix can fight Fefnir from MMZero or tag team Megaman X/Zero Vs Sigma/Bass. this would be the most epic non canon crossover fighting game with the most playable characters... in 2D so the PS3 could support 200+ characters and costumes. don't respond to this, i'm just saying is all; mix of Capcom vs marvel (battle) and DBZ:BT3 (selection))

 

[Pieman0920]

The whole alt-character possibility deal was mentioned a long time ago August...I mean a very long time ago. Probably back in Brawl, especially after the Wario costume reveal.

 

[augustoflores]

i don't particularly know why, but when i read what you write, i feel a little stressed out. probably just the wording (don't ask, that's just me) maybe its the red eyes of chibi fireman...

edit- oh its 'cause you're right behind me with a knife! no wonder.

 

[Big-Cat]

tutorial? is that different from practice mode? will we still have practice mode?

give in detail what tutorial mode is.

One thing I found kind of annoying with the SSB games was that the game only taught you the controls. It pretty much left you in the dark with any idea on the character's individual styles and some very useful knowledge.

For example, I found it annoying that teching is pretty much left unknown to anyone who doesn't go to the Dojo to find out or is a Smash veteran. To bring up Final Fantasy XIII, it has a number of tutorial modes for the battle system (completely optional) for the different mechanics such as lining up your attack commands, paradigm shift, ability uses, and gestalt mode. Why not have something like this available to anyone who wants it by having "exercises" for the different aspects of the fighting system?

With the case of teching, you're trained in teching forward, backward, neutral, or not at all by being attacked and the right tech will get you out of combo pressure (the attacks are fixed).

In the case of characters, I bring up SFIV's trial mode which gave a sequence of moves to do in a combo. These help give you an idea as to what the character's playstyle is and also help you get into the deeper aspects of the game.

So in essence, this completely optional tutorial mode is for those who want to step up their game against their friends online, or just want to learn about what there is beyond the surface.