[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Mowrt620]

3rd party is a mixture of deserving, popular, nintendo-related, and still alive. Crash Bandicoot has kind of burned out over time, but playin' wrath of cortex and PS1 bandicoot was always good....

 

[Shorts]

Yeah, star power is going to diminish, but at least at that time, the series is going to have to be more reliant on gameplay than ever before (not saying the gameplay is crappy in general). As for the third party thing, I'm curious how this will work. In terms of what I think would be good choices and assuming no company gets more than one character, I think we will be seeing Megaman, Lloyd, some SE character, and for the lulz, Miku Hatsune. Other than that, I can't think of anyone else besides Crash Bandicoot, and I can't tell if he's dead or not.

You have any suggestions for new series characters?

crash doesnt make the qualifications thank, god. there actually is an article i found stating that some series wants to be in smash bros. if anyone is interested in finding out which series it was ill find the article. soo i expect many more series begging to get in, and well i dont see sakurai turning anyone down...

 

[Arcadenik]

In SSB, we had 12 characters from 10 franchises.

Mario - 2
Donkey Kong - 1
Zelda - 1
Metroid - 1
Yoshi - 1
Kirby - 1
Star Fox - 1
Pokemon - 2
F-Zero - 1
Mother - 1

In SSBM, we gained 14 newcomers from 7 franchises. 10 of them are from 4 existing franchises and 4 of them are from 3 new franchises.

Mario - 3
Zelda - 4
Star Fox - 1
Pokemon - 2

Ice Climber - 1
Fire Emblem - 2
Game & Watch - 1

In SSBB, we gained 18 newcomers from 14 franchises. 12 of them are from 8 existing franchises and 4 of them are from 4 new franchises and 2 of them are from 2 third party franchises.

Donkey Kong - 1
Zelda - 1
Metroid - 1
Kirby - 2
Star Fox - 1
Pokemon - 4
Mother - 1
Fire Emblem - 1

Kid Icarus - 1
Wario - 1
Pikmin - 1
Robot - 1

Metal Gear - 1
Sonic - 1

As for SSB4, I have 14 newcomers from 12 franchises I hope will be playable.

6 newcomers from 4 existing franchises:

Toad (Mario)
Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
King K. Rool (Donkey Kong)
Meowth (Pokemon)
5th gen Pokemon (Pokemon)
New Lord (Fire Emblem)

7 newcomers from 7 new franchises:

Tingle (Tingle)
Little Mac (Punch-Out)
Takamaru (Mysterious Murasame Castle)
Isa (Sin & Punishment)
Isaac's Descendant (Golden Sun)
Starfy (Starfy)
Duck Hunt Dog (Duck Hunt)

1 newcomer from 1 third party franchise:

Mega Man (Mega Man)

Keep in mind that I do want Mewtwo in SSB4, I just don't count him as a newcomer. He was in Melee so he would be considered a returning veteran if he comes back in SSB4. I would also like to see one Pokemon character from each Smash game return in SSB4 and add two new Pokemon characters. So, I hope to see Pikachu (SSB), Mewtwo (SSBM), and Pokemon Trainer (SSBB) return with Meowth and the 5th gen Pokemon.

 

[Shorts]

anyone who doesnt expect jigglypuff back needs to get over it. jiggly isnt leaving, nuff said.

 

[SmashChu]

Most of the time it would make sense (most attacks use hands feet head or sword), it's only with certain moves that'd be like wtf lol. Besides, we're talking about random here XD, only ninjalink would care (ninjalink is awesome btw). In all honesty, it doesn't matter. People generally don't use random anyway unless it's for fun or for a laugh. I think having stuff that doesn't make sense would make random more popular if anything.

None of what you said makes sense.

1)Why not just have random be random. You want to play as the characters, not some Mii hybrid. That is not the point of random
2)A lot of the moves will look stupid. Flat out ********. Why would Mii shot out charge shots, lay mines, randomly have a sword, and suck up enemies. Looks dumb no matter what
3)Couldn't Mii be it's own character.

As for making them a seperate character, I know I wouldn't use them. Createable character? They wouldn't be tourney viable. People will just create monsters from all the best attacks in the game. In the end, most of the monsters would be similar (because people obviously would want the best moves and not the second best) and they'd be unuseable (unless against other monsters.)

You post only makes sense if you assume that the Mii would have a set of moves that would make it the best character and the moves would not be balanced. Also, how has this stopped game before. Marvel vs Capcom 2?

Also, they added a lot of things in Smash that aren't tournament viable. I don;t see how that is a reason.

 

[Arcadenik]

anyone who doesnt expect jigglypuff back needs to get over it. jiggly isnt leaving, nuff said.

Yes, well, Jigglypuff was almost removed in Brawl. She barely made it in because she was easier to program/animate compared to Mewtwo, a Pokemon who is more deserving than Jigglypuff. She is the only veteran character listed right after the newcomers on the character select screen. She is the only veteran character who doesn't have a role in the Adventure Mode just like the three other last-minute additions (Toon Link, Wolf, and Sonic, although it was a feeble attempt to incorporate Sonic in Adventure Mode).

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

None of what you said makes sense.

1)Why not just have random be random. You want to play as the characters, not some Mii hybrid. That is not the point of random
2)A lot of the moves will look stupid. Flat out ********. Why would Mii shot out charge shots, lay mines, randomly have a sword, and suck up enemies. Looks dumb no matter what
3)Couldn't Mii be it's own character.

Hmm,agreeing with chu for once, this is nice. In addition to everything Chu said(while I'm not sure if I want the Mii playable) if you want to fulfill the concept of cool character instead of random, make it Ditto, or some oteh transformy character from anoother seires (while not coutning it as a character from that series [which we know Smash fans would >.>])


Lots of people use random. It is my favorite feature in brawl, the only one that makes playing melee seem less spectacular.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

It's actually really easy to go deeper with all this new stuff Ninty's pulling out and more Third-Party support (Dragon Quest X Anyone? ) With that thrown into the fact that Pre-Brawl, there were still many important characters, It's pretty easy to build-up on that.

Scratch that. You have to be really blind to not see how easy this is, either that or biased. Watch even the most minimalistic picks sound reality: (Assuming no characters are cut) Based on previous events

1.Isaac
2.Little Mac
3.Isa/Starfy
4.?New Retro Starter?
5.?New Retro Unlockable?
6.Megaman
7.Something from another company. Square-Enix, please?
8.Ridley
9.Samurai Goroh
10.King K. Rool
11.Some supporting character or new franchise (Fire Emblem, Mother, Star Fox, DK, Mario, Pokemon, Wario, insert gigantic "etc" here)
12.^^
13.^^^
14.^^^^

Knowing you guys; Fill in 11-14 with nice choices bias!

There see? It's really not that hard to create a roster based on previous knowledge; It's just the discussion of how well It'll sell, which with all the other things that need to be improved, I don't think It's that much of a problem. As Pieman stated, Mario Kart is getting pretty obscure in characters, and smash isn't even close to having to dig that hard...

 

[Pieman0920]

Yes, well, Jigglypuff was almost removed in Brawl. She barely made it in because she was easier to program/animate compared to Mewtwo, a Pokemon who is more deserving than Jigglypuff. She is the only veteran character listed right after the newcomers on the character select screen. She is the only veteran character who doesn't have a role in the Adventure Mode just like the three other last-minute additions (Toon Link, Wolf, and Sonic, although it was a feeble attempt to incorporate Sonic in Adventure Mode).

While I think its true that Jiggs was almost taken out, and that it was almost certainly because they were not sure between her and Mewtwo, I think your reason for Jiggs getting the go-ahead is a bit flawed. Both Mewtwo and Jigs were established characters from before, so it probably wasn't a matter of difficulty of programing/animating. They probably just chose Jigs in the end because she was the veteran. (Also possibly because Mewtwo was one of the least used character probably didn't hurt either)

In any case, while she was indeed almost cut, the fact that she wasn't probably cements her into Smash even more, because its been three games with her in it, and only one with Mewtwo. In addition, you'd probably get even more people complaining that Jiggs got cut, if she got cut, since people actually use her quite a bit, unlike Mewtwo. =/

 

[DekuBoy]

How do we know that Jiggs was almost removed? I think that if the forbidden 7 got in Jiggs, Toon Link and Wolf as well as Roy, Toon Zelda, Dixie and Doc would all have been just watered down characters. You know, no SSE role, clones, ect. (except Jiggs) I think that the fact that she was not cut only shows how Sakurai likes the character. I'm sure he would have had no problem putting Mewtwo in, buttime is money.


Also: Happy 2000 pages everybody.

 

[Big-Cat]

It's not time to celebrate just yet. We're almost at post 30,000. Anyway, I'm starting to wonder if Jigglypuff was never in danger of getting cut. Rather, they just couldn't think of a place for her to fit in the storyline along with Toon Link. Anyway, whether anyone likes it or not, Jigglypuff is here to stay, she's one of the original characters in a series that created a new sub-genre. It'd be like kicking Chun-Li out of Street Fighter or Nina Williams out of Tekken, just wrong in the end.

 

[UberMario]

Toon Link and Link would have caused a strange and awkward feeling if they were both present.
Wolf should have been the reason Fox crashed rather than the Halberd spewing out a bunch of lasers.
Jigglypuff, hmmm, well she doesn't fit into any of the actual parts.

 

[Pieman0920]

The developers not knowing what to do with Jiggs doesn't really explain why she's at the bottom of the screen, and at the end of the credits, two things that only new characters have. Given the fact that Toon Link and Wolf are somewhat clone-like, it can generally be assumed that they are the type of characters who were late additions, and since Jiggs was thrown in with them, it could be assumed she may have been as well. Overall, most of this is just speculation, but I think there are more than enough hints.

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah, Toon Link simply couldn't work with Link in the storyline. It'd be confusing for the most part. Wolf, as far as we can tell, was one of the later, if not the last addition in the game. Jigglypuff really couldn't fit anywhere. At least Lucario is a natural fighter and would fight who he sees; Pikachu was trapped in a factory; Pokemon Trainer just met up with Lucas and captured his Pokemon along the way. There's no place where Jigglypuff could've fit.

Thus, we can assume that they weren't in for separate reasons. Still, this is just speculation. We should just move on to something else.

 

[Jon Farron]

Having Paula and Princess Kumatora from earthbound in it. And having all the characters have thier powers from thier games in brawl. (I mean seriously.) Also, no lag on wifi, maybe a better stage maker. And making it easier to take the suit off of saums, maybe like zelda's down-b? Except ZSS wouldn't be able to turn back into samus of course

 

[DekuBoy]

Jiggs should've had Sonics' role because that would've been the funniest thing ever. She rolls in and breaks Tabuu's wings... way better than Sonic.

 

[Big-Cat]

Correction, she rolls in and does Rest on him.

@Johnwalt
Your best bet for Paula and Kumatora are as alt. models or clones. As for them having all their powers, in some cases, there isn't enough room for them to fit in. Although, if this is in regards to Ness and Lucas, I've thought about it, and stat based attacks would not be a bad idea.

 

[DaomarIsBear]

I was thinking of how cool it'd be to add Raiden from MGS2. He'd be like Snake, except lighter and katana wielding.

 

[Ol-Jeb]

hmmm.... First I'd like tripping to be optional. More love for the Kirby Levels, considering there was....ONE in brawl (minus the melee stage(s)).

Mewtwo should be brought back >_> Loved that guy in melee...

If Link is to have a second version of himself (toon link, young link) they should at least be separate. Toon Link had plenty of items and tools in WW and the subsequent games to give him a completely different moveset. Young Link could be based off of Majora's Mask and use the masks (Fierce Deity FS) in order to fight!

I think Metroid deserves another character. Maybe something along the lines of space pirates, Ridely or Dark Samus.

A friend brought up an interesting point for Kirby. Instead of Kirby getting the neutral B of the character he swallows, he instead gets a B attack based on them. Like in the Kirby games when Kirby could eat a floating ball that shot lasers and get the beam ability. So when he eats Pikachu he gets the spark ability, etc etc. It would take out the cute Kirby hats but I think it would expand his versatility.

These are just a few of the things I'd love to see, but there's plenty more I don't wanna bore people with xD

 

[Shorts]

suda51 was the person who was interviewed. he said somewhere along the lines of maybe in the future youll see link and travis touchdown, from no more heroes., i think, battle it out in smash bros.

interesting, has anyone played no more heroes? what would travis's moveset be?

 

[RickyPro]

Never played No More Heroes. But I have a friend that constantly says, "You know that game I have called No More Heroes? I know a great way to put him in the game...Blah blah blah. *This is where I ignore him*)

So I am guessing there is a sort of moveset for him.

I do like the Kumatora idea. Lucas and Ness have the same attacks, but they have a different effects, plus they have very different attacks at the same time. Kumatora could do that too.

KOS-MOS(Xenosaga), "Kalas"(Batan Kaitos), Dante (Devil May Cry), and Felecia/Morrigan(Darkstalkers), and any Tales of... Game characters all seem like fun ideas to mess with.
(Though pretty much none of them have a chance at ALL. Sorry guys.)

But I do not know if these are at all worthy of being considered according to most people on this site. I just think it is a fun idea. But moving back to whatever we were talking about. Haha.

 

[SmashChu]

Like I've said in the past, Brawl covered most of the big characters so SSB4 and beyond will most likely focus on the smaller and more obscure franchises for new picks. There's still some big characters left in the main franchises but it's definately no enough to last until SSB5. In my opinion, I think the Big franchises have about 6 maybe 7 characters that I feel should be represented in a future installment. (Unfortunately, King K. Rool, Krystal, and Ridley are the only three I remember coming up with at the top of my head.) If anything, SSB4's new picks will probably mostly be derived from smaller franchises like Golden Sun and Starfy.

Truth be told, all the important characters were gotten in 64.

 

[Shorts]

Truth be told, all the important characters were gotten in 64.

yea..... because peach, bowser, zelda, marth and lucas are pretty much just chopped liver?

more characters are becoming more important as each new game comes out. i mean bowser jr. is becoming one of the mario franchises lead characters. and come on, the game IS called legend of zelda! she has almost as much impotance as link, and more importance than gannondorf.

just because mario is the main character doesnt mean everyone else is not important.

sure, romeo is the lead role in romeo and juliet, but without juliet and all the rest of the cast romeo and juliet is nothing.

silly old smashchu!

 

[Big-Cat]

Happy 30,000th post!

When you think about it, if you had to stick with the "essentials", Peach and Zelda would not be in Smash. The original roster, if you replace Yoshi and Jiggs with Marth and Pit, and add Zero Suit Samus, you could say you have what could be considered a representation of Nintendo with as few characters as possible.

 

[woopyfrood]

Hey Guys!

Do have particular characters that you want in SSB4? Of course you do!

Are you tired of having all of your suggestions drowned out by cries for Ridley and Geno?

Do you never tire of crying out for Ridley and Geno?

Now, how does having your most-wanted-characters list used to help find the standings of all characters sound?

An intriguing study on SSB4 character suggestions has been reopened!

That's right,The SSB4 Character Demands Tier List is BACK. IN. BUSINESS.

*Huzzah for Page 2000!*

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Yeah, I'm not sure why Yoshi got in over numerous other choices. Wasn't his series still in its infancy at that point?


Oh, and I'm gonna throw in another point about Jiggly, she couldn't be put not story mode because of her sheild jump, it goes higher than any other character can go, so she would have essentially been able to jump over the walls and barriers of levels, climb the rising segments at record speed, etc. [/theory]

 

[Pieman0920]

Yoshi's series was in its prime at the time. After the 64 generation it never got a new console game, and its closest thing to a proper sequel was Yoshi's Island DS, which was....well bleh. Given the time and future expectations, Yoshi was one of the most popular Nintendo characters around, so he was very much justified.

And as far as Jigg's place in the story of SSE, it could have easily been thrown in there in a number of places. Yoshi, G&W, and the ICs were pretty much "just there" at times, and Jiggs could have been thrown in there as well. It really wouldn't have been that big of a deal to just have her climbing that mountain with the ICs and getting knocked off along with them so tha tthey could join the rest of the group.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah, I'm not sure why Yoshi got in over numerous other choices. Wasn't his series still in its infancy at that point?


Oh, and I'm gonna throw in another point about Jiggly, she couldn't be put not story mode because of her sheild jump, it goes higher than any other character can go, so she would have essentially been able to jump over the walls and barriers of levels, climb the rising segments at record speed, etc. [/theory]

Well, maybe the development team should have given Jigglypuff a storyline where all her levels take place in stages where there are solid ceilings so she couldn't jump over the walls. I think it is time to accept that Jigglypuff was originally removed in Brawl and was added back to buff the Brawl roster. Even her Final Smash looks as if they hastily tacked it on her - she just grow big and then shrink back? There is a reason why she, along with Toon Link, Wolf, and Sonic, only got one cutscene in the Adventure Mode.

 

[SmashChu]

yea..... because peach, bowser, zelda, marth and lucas are pretty much just chopped liver?

more characters are becoming more important as each new game comes out. i mean bowser jr. is becoming one of the mario franchises lead characters. and come on, the game IS called legend of zelda! she has almost as much impotance as link, and more importance than gannondorf.

just because mario is the main character doesnt mean everyone else is not important.

sure, romeo is the lead role in romeo and juliet, but without juliet and all the rest of the cast romeo and juliet is nothing.

silly old smashchu!

Most of those characters you mentioned were very irrelevant. Lucas's game wasn't even a big hit in Japan.

Every character added in Melee and Brawl (minus the 3rd paries) is either a second banana, a villian or obscure.

Bowser-Villain
Peach-Second banana
Ice Climbers-Obscure. Most old NES game didn't stand the test of time. Nintendo made sequels to the big hits while the others were left behind
Zelda/Sheik-Second banana(s)
Marth-Obscure outside of Japan. Fire Emblem has never been a big hitter. They just keep making games for some reason
Mewtwo-sudo-villain
Mr. Game & Watch-Obscure, but technically, he was made up in Smash. There is no character that resembles him in the Game & Watch line. The closest were the dudes you save in Fire.
Dr. Mario-Could only be considered important because he is Mario, just as a doctor.
Ganondorf-Villain
Falco-Second banana
Young Link-Second banana, but like Dr. Mario, he is Link.
Pichu-Second banana
Roy-Obscure. His game wasn't even out yet
Wario-Despite being the star of his game, is a villain
Pit-Obscure. See Ice Climbers
Meta-Knight-Villain/second banana
Pokemon Trainer-Technically, he is on of the few important characters added after 64 because he is the true star of the game.
Olimar-The second important character
Lucas-Very obscure
Diddy Kong-the definition of second banana
King Dedede-villain
Lucario-second banana
Ike-Obscure. Again, Fire Emblem is never a big hitter
R.O.B.-Obscure, and no, he did not save video games
Toon Link-Young Link in Toon form
Wolf-villain

Save Pokemon Trainer and Olimar, all the others are not important characters but are either obscure or secondaries in a game which was represented in 64. Toise has posted this before, but Nintendo's biggest series were in 64. Pikmin isn't as big as most of the others and came after 64. Pokemon Trainer is important because he is the real star, but Pikachu is more popular.

So no matter what, the character in SSB4 are going to be less important then what has already been added save for a few. Overall, all the major Nintendo icons are in Smash and your just picking from a smaller pool.

Also, your wrong on Romeo and Juliet. They are both the main characters as the drama focuses around their relationship. They are the center of the plot. This would be akin to Mario and Luigi in Super Mario Bros, as the game revolves around them. To prove my point, I don't think most of you can name any other character from Romeo and Juliet (despite the fact many of you know the story).

 

[Big-Cat]

Also, your wrong on Romeo and Juliet. They are both the main characters as the drama focuses around their relationship. They are the center of the plot. This would be akin to Mario and Luigi in Super Mario Bros, as the game revolves around them. To prove my point, I don't think most of you can name any other character from Romeo and Juliet (despite the fact many of you know the story).

My spelling might be wrong on these but:

Mercuccio
Tibalt
The Capulets which Juliet was a part of IIRC.
The Montagues which Romeo was a part of IIRC
Nurse
Friar

Those are the ones that come to me right off the bat. Also, you could say that anyone who lists them might have watched RomeoXJuliet.

Anyway, as to why Nintendo continues the FE series, I think it has to do with two things:

1. Tactical games have never been big sellers so they don't expect a hit on the scale of a Mario game.
2. Nintendo doesn't want to disappoint its fans.

 

[etertay]

well...whew theirs a lot to say about this!

for one, mr. game and watch is most stupid character ever. i'd rather have pac-man

for two, more sonic charachters

for three, i'd like a multilayer mode that is NOT SIDE SCROLLING meaning i could fight as samus from a fps view or link from third person in a 3d enviroment

4. in the side scrolling part i'd like charachters to have more of their original attributes (like how links shield defends) i would like mario to be able to do his turn-jump and link to be able to shoot bomb arrows and stuff like that.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@Arcadenik

Why would Jiggs be given a special personal level? It would be a waste of time to add and design levels solely around Jigglypuff's programming.

Futhermore, what else could he Final Smash be that isn't a rip off of Peach's? She is the "Balloon" pokemon....what do balloons do exactly? They were using their creative liberties with her because she has no intense uber attack like Pika's Volt tackle or the Hyro Pump/ Fire Blast/ Solar Beam trademark.

 

[Big-Cat]

She could've had Hyper Voice.

 

[UltraPuff]

I personally think the next Smash Bros. will be announced when Nintendo reveals a console that supports six players or something.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ ShinoandtheBallonFighter

Have you ever seen a Jigglypuff inflate and deflate in the Pokemon games or even in the anime, at least? What about Hyper Voice like Kuma suggested?

Also, if Sakurai and the development team don't care about ripping off other characters' moves and give them to other characters (Fox's two clones, Ganondorf being Captain Falcon's clone, Ness and Lucas getting Paula and Kumatora's powers, etc.), why would they care about ripping off Peach's Final Smash and give it to Jigglypuff? At least it would have made a lot more sense than what Jigglypuff have now.

Like I said before, Jigglypuff's Final Smash looks like it was hastily tacked on because she was one of the last characters added in Brawl.

 

[woopyfrood]

Added a link to my post. Click it.

 

[Shorts]

without peach mario has no one to save.
without bowser theres no one to battle, ending the game completely.

i could go on and list all the characters in melee like you did but i wont.

the point is mario, link, pikachu ect. ARE very importent if not essentail, but to say zelda, mewtwo ganondorf ect. arent important is just stupid.

now, do you think there gonna actually bring any characters from melee back? (im mostly talking about mewtwo and roy)

 

[Arcadenik]

Technically, Mewtwo wasn't important in the Pokemon games. He was only important in the first Pokemon movie. Maybe Mewtwo was added because he would attract a lot of attention due to his appearance in the first Pokemon movie in addition to being the top pick for the Pokemon characters on the Melee poll.

At least Pikachu had important roles in Pokemon games like Pokemon Yellow and Hey You, Pikachu! in addition to being the mascot of the Pokemon franchise and his star power on the Pokemon anime.

 

[Shorts]

Technically, Mewtwo wasn't important in the Pokemon games. He was only important in the first Pokemon movie. Maybe Mewtwo was added because he would attract a lot of attention due to his appearance in the first Pokemon movie in addition to being the top pick for the Pokemon characters on the Melee poll.

At least Pikachu had important roles in Pokemon games like Pokemon Yellow and Hey You, Pikachu! in addition to being the mascot of the Pokemon franchise and his star power on the Pokemon anime.

it seems that all ofbthe pokemon that were picked were big in the anime (jiggly) or big in a pokemon movie (mewtwo, lucario)

pichu was in lots of pokemon shorts as well. and meowth was planned for ssb. he too only has major importance in the anime.

 

[Arcadenik]

Exactly. Why do you guys think I still support Meowth for Smash after all these years? As long as Meowth remains relevant in the Pokemon media (movies, anime) and continues to get main roles in the Pokemon spin-off games (Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games), I see no reason not to support him for Smash. At least I am not supporting a random Pokemon like, I don't know, Scizor or something.