[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[orange/xd]

I woulda main Samurai Goroh.

 

[Big-Cat]

By the end of the year? And I got the DSi last April. Anyway, I wouldn't count on Smash ever being ported onto a handheld. I have no problem with sprite graphics, heck I love them, but there would be a lot of work in just the animations for a sprite based Smash. I think it needs to stay a console endeavor.

That reminds me. How the heck is this series going to expand its roster. At one point, they're going to have to start digging for more picks.

 

[Mowrt620]

By the end of the year? And I got the DSi last April. Anyway, I wouldn't count on Smash ever being ported onto a handheld. I have no problem with sprite graphics, heck I love them, but there would be a lot of work in just the animations for a sprite based Smash. I think it needs to stay a console endeavor.

That reminds me. How the heck is this series going to expand its roster. At one point, they're going to have to start digging for more picks.

When they do start asking around for picks, I'll be in the crowd screaming "SORA!" and "PACMAN!"

 

[Zatchiel]

I sure cant wait until roy comes back with a different moveset, Sylux From metroid is added, Pico From F-Zero is added, and additianal characters and feutures, along with the title being "Super Smash Bros. Clash"

 

[Pieman0920]

>Roy

Ehh, rather not go backwards

>Sylux

Wait, Ridley is so much better...

>Pico

....Goroh for sure. BS at least. Pico not really.

Anyways, for the whole portable Smash thing, one would think that it could have a very nice chance as a launch game for the next handheld, eh? I don't think it would be sprite based at all though, and would probably have more primative, yet better than 64 graphics....unless it were to actually be for the new handheld, in which case I have no idea what it would be like in its graphical capabilities.

In any case for the Mario thing, I think a good deal of characters have the pottential to have different types of movesets, and not just Mario, and that's why I sort of endorse the option to customize specials. Of course the problem for that is that is its sort of difficult for more obscure characters. In any case, I wouldn't think that Mario's moveset, outside of pottentially his down B, will be changing any time soon, but if a system like that was used, it would also likley carry over to Luigi. (Also, when you said BEES Kuma, I totally thought Bee Suit Mario was going to be in there somewhere)

Lastly, in terms of Jerome's characters:

Mario Series: Shadow Mario doesn't make that much sense. Mr. L would be a good alt for Luigi

DK Series: I personally don't think the DK series will expand next time, so I really don't think it will get two new characters. To clarify though, Dixie could easily not be a clone, and its likely that Sakurai had a moveset set up for her already given her beta status.

Zelda Series: Perfect. Tingle is probably the best pottential Zelda character out there right now.

Metroid through Star Fox: Good, though I somewhat doubt SF will get four spots.

Pokemon: I really don't think Lucario is going to get the boot. In general I also don't think Mewtwo will come back, though in the situation where you changed the PT's Pokemon its actually a posibility due to my reasoning. In any case, if you thought people were mad about one non-clone Pokemon getting cut, you're obviously underestimating four being cut.

Others: I don't think FE will have four reps, and at this point I also don't think Roy or Micaiah will show up. Best bet is on a new FE lord. If not that, I honestly think Sheena stands a good chance, though no one else really shares my view on that here. Also for Retro, I don't think Little Mac quite fits in as well as he used to, and Pac Man is third party. For the third parties themselves, you really have too many, and people like Sora (and Pac-Man) are not needed. Also Grey Fox and Shadow should get cut from there, since it better to just have one rep from a third party franchise. Lastly, Isaac may not be as good in the future as his replacement for GS DS but we will see, and the Animal Crosser should be cut out for Tom Nook, and a Mii should take the general idea of the ACer.

 

[Shorts]

mewtwo.

do you think hes coming back?
i say yes. hes coming back and lucario WILL be out. mark my words. jiggs and pika will come back duhh. pt, hes just as unique is jiggs soo i think he will be back. lucario took mewtwos place and im sure sakurai has heard plenty of guff for his absence. lucky for mewrwo fans sakurai loves to listen to what the fans want. so mewtwo should be back. along with roy im SUREEE.


off topic.. did you know that 9/10 of the top requested characters got into brawl? sakurai is realky nice

*geno was the one who didnt get in -_-*

 

[Big-Cat]

In any case for the Mario thing, I think a good deal of characters have the pottential to have different types of movesets, and not just Mario, and that's why I sort of endorse the option to customize specials. Of course the problem for that is that is its sort of difficult for more obscure characters. In any case, I wouldn't think that Mario's moveset, outside of pottentially his down B, will be changing any time soon, but if a system like that was used, it would also likley carry over to Luigi. (Also, when you said BEES Kuma, I totally thought Bee Suit Mario was going to be in there somewhere)

There's a problem with custom specials though: People are going to just stick with certain specials. If you're going to have move choices, keep it at one move at most. Another problem you mentioned is that some characters like Link, Samus, and the Pokemon characters have a lot to derive from, but some like the retro characters do not.

Anyway, there's no guarantee that Luigi would follow suit if such a thing was implemented. As we've all noticed, Luigi has become more and more different with every subsequent Smash released. Now, you can't play Luigi like Mario at all.

This reminds me that this is why I like how other fighting games handle their specials. Yes, the motions may seem intimidating, but no one is forced to have four and only four specials with specific purposes. You can have as little as two or as many as ten for example. However, such a thing would be difficult in Smash because of the KO methods even if we had three normal attack buttons. However, the execution issue some have is removed in Smash so it's not all bad.

Anyway, I agree with you on Tom Nook. Anyone objecting saying he doesn't fight or something should start thinking outside the box. However, I don't agree with the Mii. The problem with the Mii is that it's not so much a videogame character as it is a system character. Not only that, but the Mii would be more or less the equivalent of a Create-A-Fighter mode.

 

[Zatchiel]

Oh, and it would be really funny if they had Weegee in there too;His Final Smash, Weegee Stare, gives 50% plus flower damage, and stuns the enemy leaving them open for a Weegee jump punch(More details 2morrow)

 

[Pieman0920]

There's a problem with custom specials though: People are going to just stick with certain specials. If you're going to have move choices, keep it at one move at most. Another problem you mentioned is that some characters like Link, Samus, and the Pokemon characters have a lot to derive from, but some like the retro characters do not.

Perhaps there would be a generally prefered moveset arrangement, but one can hope for the best that certain people would break the mold and find sucess with a different style, and thus create more variety. The whole concept of custom specials needs to have the idea that the balancers will work especially hard on it. As far as dealing with retro characters who don't have much to go with, in most cases those retro characters had made up attacks in the first place. (I'm looking at you Ice Climbers) Thus I would think that in most cases something could be made for everyone.

Anyway, there's no guarantee that Luigi would follow suit if such a thing was implemented. As we've all noticed, Luigi has become more and more different with every subsequent Smash released. Now, you can't play Luigi like Mario at all.

Yes Luigi has become more different, but he's also used all those power ups in the past, so it would be a shame to not let him have something like that as well.

Anyway, I agree with you on Tom Nook. Anyone objecting saying he doesn't fight or something should start thinking outside the box. However, I don't agree with the Mii. The problem with the Mii is that it's not so much a videogame character as it is a system character. Not only that, but the Mii would be more or less the equivalent of a Create-A-Fighter mode.

Hmm? ROB's a system character. G&W is a system character. What's really so wrong with the Mii? Seeing as it really is the star of the Wii Sports games, and seeing how popular those are, I think the things have accomplished enough to get a playable spot. And the whole Create-A-Fighter thing is the point. Given Smash's nature its a bit difficult, (and not really fitting) to have a traditional create-a-fighter style function, but with the Miis it can easily work and stay true to the game being about Nintendo all-stars.

 

[Big-Cat]

Perhaps there would be a generally prefered moveset arrangement, but one can hope for the best that certain people would break the mold and find sucess with a different style, and thus create more variety. The whole concept of custom specials needs to have the idea that the balancers will work especially hard on it. As far as dealing with retro characters who don't have much to go with, in most cases those retro characters had made up attacks in the first place. (I'm looking at you Ice Climbers) Thus I would think that in most cases something could be made for everyone.

There's no need to have different styles for one character unless you have one for select characters like Ganondorf. Another thing to note is that, ideally, the specials are the basis for the character. With this in mind, you'd have to have the normals, stats, etc. changed for the specials. If it's just one move being changed, it's much easier to deal with. Thus, balancing out the specials is impossible.

Yeah, they could make up for the retro characters, but I'd just settle for EX Attacks, at least those are typically stronger versions of the specials. And besides, considering how Smash has been, everyone would have to have certain amount of specials available to choose from for a custom moveset. That makes things even harder when you're dealing with redundancy.

Hmm? ROB's a system character. G&W is a system character. What's really so wrong with the Mii? Seeing as it really is the star of the Wii Sports games, and seeing how popular those are, I think the things have accomplished enough to get a playable spot. And the whole Create-A-Fighter thing is the point. Given Smash's nature its a bit difficult, (and not really fitting) to have a traditional create-a-fighter style function, but with the Miis it can easily work and stay true to the game being about Nintendo all-stars.

For starters, the Mii has never been considered a character like R.O.B. and G+W have been considered. Miis are merely avatars of the players. They're not really characters. The Animal Crossing villagers are moreso characters than they are.

Again, a create-a-style mode is a waste of space in the long run. The whole point of this game is to play with your favorite videogame characters, not with avatars of you and your friends and family.

 

[Pieman0920]

I still think the custom moves would work, but I'm going to drop debating that point, since in all honesty I don't really know the amount of effort trying to get them balanced would be like.

Anyways, I don't quite understand how you think ROB and G&W were considered characters while the Mii can't be. ROB was just a mass produced video game add on. In SSE he was mass produced again. G&W was the random avatar of all games, and not actually a character at all. If he were, his name would be friggen Mr. G&W.

And the Mii is a video game avatar given that its...well a avatar in a video game. A very popular and well known one that has inspired copy cats. And back in Melee and before Brawl, Smash bros was just playing with people's favorite Nintendo characters rather than just video game characters, so some expansion is acceptable (though as I said, these are video game characters, given that they originate in video games) And with games like Soul Calibur and what not, the original focus was to play with their characters rather than use your friend/family/crude imitations of famous people, but it still worked out. If it were really anything other than a Mii, and just some random create-a-character with no real basis, I'd be against it, since the end product wouldn't be a video game character at all, but with the base of a Mii, it still persists as one, and thus the option can be used in good concious.

 

[Mowrt620]

Yes, the mii is a representation of the Wii at that, considering SSB4 is on Wii 2. Even if not, Mii is still a rep, not just a create-a-brawler or anything.

 

[DekuBoy]

The Mii... Am I the only one who would like a Mii of Miyamoto playable?

Anyway, WuHu Island is a great choice for a stage if a Mii does join the roster.

 

[Big-Cat]

Anyways, I don't quite understand how you think ROB and G&W were considered characters while the Mii can't be. ROB was just a mass produced video game add on. In SSE he was mass produced again. G&W was the random avatar of all games, and not actually a character at all. If he were, his name would be friggen Mr. G&W.

I really don't understand the logic of putting R.O.B. in other than for that craptacular storyline. Nonetheless, R.O.B. is somewhat of a videogame character, more so than the Mii. If anything R.O.B. is like Yoshi and Toad. As for Mr. Game and Watch, I can't really comment on that. Still, the idea of what is essentially a template character to be playable seems incredibly wrong to me.

And the Mii is a video game avatar given that its...well a avatar in a video game. A very popular and well known one that has inspired copy cats. And back in Melee and before Brawl, Smash bros was just playing with people's favorite Nintendo characters rather than just video game characters, so some expansion is acceptable (though as I said, these are video game characters, given that they originate in video games) And with games like Soul Calibur and what not, the original focus was to play with their characters rather than use your friend/family/crude imitations of famous people, but it still worked out. If it were really anything other than a Mii, and just some random create-a-character with no real basis, I'd be against it, since the end product wouldn't be a video game character at all, but with the base of a Mii, it still persists as one, and thus the option can be used in good concious.

I still can't see the Mii as a practical option. If the Smash series were to go into a more casual direction. It would likely happen, assuming Sakurai is still in charge.

Of course, I think there was a possibility of taking Smash Bros. in a more casual-gaming direction. For example, we could make the art style simpler or make it possible to use Miis. However, with the various titles that the Wii was to offer, I felt that people were looking for something different. That’s the reason I decided in very early stages of development that the Wii pointer and motion movements would not be a primary feature of the game

http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/ssbb/vol2_page1.jsp

The Mii... Am I the only one who would like a Mii of Miyamoto playable?

Anyway, WuHu Island is a great choice for a stage if a Mii does join the roster.

That would be amusing, but I'd prefer just a trophy. Anyway, WuHu Island can still be a stage. Remember, there's no playable Animal Crossing character in Brawl yet we have a stage.

 

[Mowrt620]

The Mii... Am I the only one who would like a Mii of Miyamoto playable?

Anyway, WuHu Island is a great choice for a stage if a Mii does join the roster.

Agreed, either this or the Wii home menu. If you look at the bottom of the home page, there is a slant like this.... \____/ ...that's where the battle would take place.

And you occasionally get transported to the photo, mii, weather, and news channels. Each channel would have effects, like the forecast one would have thunder and rain and stuff for hazard. The Photo channel would have pre-made photos (not from your actual channel, that'd get confusing) that can hurt you- like a picture of a desert, and some cactus's might pop up and do damage or something like that. The Mii channel would have some of the mii's in the background (not your miss, again, too confusing.) hurt you and throw items. Maybe some would even race across on some karts from Mario Kart.


As for WuHu Island, maybe it would be a changing level as well. You could go on the hotel near the beach, the camel rock on the beach, the lava area, the cabin area near the lighthouse, on top of a parachute, on the golf hotel, in the city (on top of the buildings near the clock tower, and some occasional basketballs will hit you.) Also, the ruins area, the castle, the swordsplay arena, and the bridge. There are probably more, but those are some areas off the top of my head. Of course, some wii sports action would interfere with the battle as a hazard like bikers racing through, the basketballs I mentioned earlier, some ping pong balls near the hotel, golf balls at the golf hotel, skydivers flying by on top of the parachute, archery arrows in the lava area (the last level in archery takes place here) and a Mii swordsperson on the swordsplay arena. Those are jsut some of my ideas, tell me what ya think!

 

[DekuBoy]

Mowrt you are the stage master.

Also Kuma I realise that, don't worry. I was just thinking it would make a great home stage.

 

[Pieman0920]

I really don't understand the logic of putting R.O.B. in other than for that craptacular storyline. Nonetheless, R.O.B. is somewhat of a videogame character, more so than the Mii. If anything R.O.B. is like Yoshi and Toad. As for Mr. Game and Watch, I can't really comment on that. Still, the idea of what is essentially a template character to be playable seems incredibly wrong to me.

...What? No. ROB is pretty much a toy that helped you with a few Nintendo games. The Mii was built into the Wii console, and starred in several games after that. The Mii is a much more valid, and well known than ROB. And the Mii would be more like Mario, since you actually use and play as it in several games. And I understand that it would be wrong under any other circumstance, but given how its a distinctly Nintendo property, yet still allows for custimaziation, it leaps and bounds the best choice for any custom-character option, which you know fans will want.

I still can't see the Mii as a practical option. If the Smash series were to go into a more casual direction. It would likely happen, assuming Sakurai is still in charge.

Why is this? Yes the Mii has a stigma with being a casual thing, but that doesn't mean its inclusion automatically qualifies it the next Smash game as being casual. Its simply representing a very large part of Nintendo's latest history, along with being the answer to a very requested feature.

EDIT: Oh, and for any concerns about Smash being on Wii 2 instead of Wii and that impacting the Mii's chances, given the huge success of the concept (as well as the fact that other companies have coppied it) odds are very high that it will show up in some form for the next console.

 

[Shorts]

mii's would be a fantastic addition. buuuuut, not my first choice.

what five characters deserve a spot in ssb4?

mine goes:

1. bowser jr.
2. ridley
3. vaati
4. mewtwo
5. bomberman! <333

 

[n88]

@Shortie

http://n882004.webs.com/
Vote here^^

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

How about making the Mii's the new random character. Instead of getting a random character, you get a random Mii with a random character's moveset. Or something along the lines of that.
I don't see the Mii's as being their own seperate character though.

 

[Big-Cat]

How about making the Mii's the new random character. Instead of getting a random character, you get a random Mii with a random character's moveset. Or something along the lines of that.
I don't see the Mii's as being their own seperate character though.

You mean like Mokujin and Charade? The only thing I can see being a problem is that you have characters of different sizes. If all the fighters were humans/anthros, it'd be one thing, but you have electric mice, puffballs, dragon lizard things, and a Bridget to worry about among other things. If we had a random character thing, I'd prefer a Ditto.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

It could also resemble the mario kart system. The Mii's are different depending on their weight and height and so on, and in mario kart there are three different categories of karts (large medium small). So in ssb4, you pick random, you get a random Mii and then depending on the weight and height and so on of the Mii, you get a similar weight/height character's moveset. For example, if I randomly got myself, I'd probably get Snake's moveset because I'm tall and thin.

 

[Big-Cat]

We still have a problem regarding the non-humanoid characters and Samus.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Do you think it would matter if the Mii's did strange stuff like shoot electric balls from their face and shoot missiles from their arms? It's just a game, it doesn't have to make sense. If anything, that'd be what makes it more fun. Like the Mii's wouldn't have to look like the characters (wings, tail, so on) as long as they control the same (walk, talk, jump, attack, so on). It's just an idea though. You would probably have to make the Mii's grow a tail out of no where if they use a tail to attack. I spose the same could go for wings. It's nothing out of the ordinary though, characters pull bombs and so on from no where all the time.

 

[mrgy]

I hope they put Protoman in the next super smash bros

 

[SmashChu]

Do you think it would matter if the Mii's did strange stuff like shoot electric balls from their face and shoot missiles from their arms? It's just a game, it doesn't have to make sense. If anything, that'd be what makes it more fun. Like the Mii's wouldn't have to look like the characters (wings, tail, so on) as long as they control the same (walk, talk, jump, attack, so on). It's just an idea though. You would probably have to make the Mii's grow a tail out of no where if they use a tail to attack. I spose the same could go for wings. It's nothing out of the ordinary though, characters pull bombs and so on from no where all the time.

Yeah, it still has to make some sense. Being a video game doesn't give you a free pass to make stuff that doesn't look plausible to the player.

Also, this is a weak idea anyway. Why not have them be their own character, or a creatable character.

 

[Shorts]

Do you think it would matter if the Mii's did strange stuff like shoot electric balls from their face and shoot missiles from their arms? It's just a game, it doesn't have to make sense. If anything, that'd be what makes it more fun. Like the Mii's wouldn't have to look like the characters (wings, tail, so on) as long as they control the same (walk, talk, jump, attack, so on). It's just an idea though. You would probably have to make the Mii's grow a tail out of no where if they use a tail to attack. I spose the same could go for wings. It's nothing out of the ordinary though, characters pull bombs and so on from no where all the time.

verrry intersting idea!!
i think if the miis get inthey should have movesets depending on weight class. and maybe gender? or maybe one of there special moves depends on there shirt color? like brown might pull out a bowling ball projectile and pink might do a slide like there sliding onto a base?
maybe forget the gender difference just keep the color and weight class?

 

[Shorts]

Yeah, it still has to make some sense. Being a video game doesn't give you a free pass to make stuff that doesn't look plausible to the player.

Also, this is a weak idea anyway. Why not have them be their own character, or a creatable character.

just remember, fox-huminoids flying space crafts doesnt look too plausible yet its widely excepted by star fox fans

 

[Big-Cat]

just remember, fox-huminoids flying space crafts doesnt look too plausible yet its widely excepted by star fox fans

It's still flat out difficult (or impossible) to implement in that fashion. If this was Street Fighter, Tekken, or some other game with an almost exclusively humanoid (this extends to the animals in Tekken) cast, this would work fine. Unless you consider Miis to breathe fire, fight like Blanka, have tails, or whatever normal or within reason, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yeah, it still has to make some sense. Being a video game doesn't give you a free pass to make stuff that doesn't look plausible to the player.

Also, this is a weak idea anyway. Why not have them be their own character, or a creatable character.

Most of the time it would make sense (most attacks use hands feet head or sword), it's only with certain moves that'd be like wtf lol. Besides, we're talking about random here XD, only ninjalink would care (ninjalink is awesome btw). In all honesty, it doesn't matter. People generally don't use random anyway unless it's for fun or for a laugh. I think having stuff that doesn't make sense would make random more popular if anything.

As for making them a seperate character, I know I wouldn't use them. Createable character? They wouldn't be tourney viable. People will just create monsters from all the best attacks in the game. In the end, most of the monsters would be similar (because people obviously would want the best moves and not the second best) and they'd be unuseable (unless against other monsters.)

 

[Shorts]

It's still flat out difficult (or impossible) to implement in that fashion. If this was Street Fighter, Tekken, or some other game with an almost exclusively humanoid (this extends to the animals in Tekken) cast, this would work fine. Unless you consider Miis to breathe fire, fight like Blanka, have tails, or whatever normal or within reason, I don't know what to tell you.

you just made it sound like you were saying miis shooting electricity is the most absurd thing ever thought up. i mean i personally would not want miis repped like that. i think theyre at the point where an individual non-customizable moveset is in order. like the idea i suggested w/ weight classes and one special move that depends on your color.

 

[Pieman0920]

Miis shouldn't act like Charade, Mokujin, or any other character like that. They should just have the one moveset (given no custom specials) that reflects their sports games. Its their face that should be custom.

 

[DekuBoy]

And you should be able to save different faces for each of his/her colour swaps.

 

[Pieman0920]

That or assign them to names.

When you make your name/fix up your controls, you can also pick the Mii you want to be represented by. That way you can keep your color options.

 

[DekuBoy]

Minimal options though. I would hat it if people made, like Darth Vader and just kept using custom ones for novelty value.

 

[Fatmanonice]

By the end of the year? And I got the DSi last April. Anyway, I wouldn't count on Smash ever being ported onto a handheld. I have no problem with sprite graphics, heck I love them, but there would be a lot of work in just the animations for a sprite based Smash. I think it needs to stay a console endeavor.

That reminds me. How the heck is this series going to expand its roster. At one point, they're going to have to start digging for more picks.

Like I've said in the past, Brawl covered most of the big characters so SSB4 and beyond will most likely focus on the smaller and more obscure franchises for new picks. There's still some big characters left in the main franchises but it's definately no enough to last until SSB5. In my opinion, I think the Big franchises have about 6 maybe 7 characters that I feel should be represented in a future installment. (Unfortunately, King K. Rool, Krystal, and Ridley are the only three I remember coming up with at the top of my head.) If anything, SSB4's new picks will probably mostly be derived from smaller franchises like Golden Sun and Starfy.

 

[Big-Cat]

New series put into the roster would be nice. You can't expand the roster with just characters from already present series. I'm still wondering how it'll work for SSB5. I'm still suspecting that the number of newcomers (sans Mewtwo and Roy) will probably be something like 10-12 characters for SSB4.

This is just a guess with some minor bias involved.

1. Bowser Jr.
2. Krystal
3. Ridley
4. K. Rool
5. Starfy
6. Tom Nook
7. Saki
8. Isaac
9. Little Mac
10. Megaman
11. Wild Card
12. Wild Card

 

[Pieman0920]

I've been sayin that the focus shouldn't be on established series, and that lesser known series need to get some more action for the most part. Its really the major problem in most lists. Still the main problem with any future Smash game is the lack of huge star power, and more third party companies will probably needed to supliment that.

 

[Shorts]

I've been sayin that the focus shouldn't be on established series, and that lesser known series need to get some more action for the most part. Its really the major problem in most lists. Still the main problem with any future Smash game is the lack of huge star power, and more third party companies will probably needed to supliment that.

but how many lesser franchises will be repped for ssb4? i personally enjoy playing punch out out of most of the lesser known franchises. what dsi based game characters should make it in? i expect to see a good handfull of 3rd parties next time around. since really all the companies who want in smash bros have just had to ask.

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah, star power is going to diminish, but at least at that time, the series is going to have to be more reliant on gameplay than ever before (not saying the gameplay is crappy in general). As for the third party thing, I'm curious how this will work. In terms of what I think would be good choices and assuming no company gets more than one character, I think we will be seeing Megaman, Lloyd, some SE character, and for the lulz, Miku Hatsune. Other than that, I can't think of anyone else besides Crash Bandicoot, and I can't tell if he's dead or not.

You have any suggestions for new series characters?