[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

I'll see if I can find it. It was a Famitsu or something scan and it was found on SRK. We had a trailer, scans, and a demo night for SSFIV that might have enveloped it in the sea of complaints and praise.

I was looking for it while typing this post and it seems that the scan was fake. I'm sorry for getting you excited like that.

To get your mind off of it, I strongly recommend playing Bayonetta if you've got a 360 or BlazBlue, Spirit Tracks, or destroy the world.

 

[Mowrt620]

I've still got the feeling that Sora would have the best moveset and level and what not. However, I'm just an uber-fan of the series, so just my opinion. For the generic FF characters, they are just 'generic' hence the name. I think we'd rather see someone that isn't a creature or anyting. Cloud is probably the best choice, considering that FF7 was very, very popular. But with al the games and plotlines, it's just messy on who to choose. Nobody would be satified fully, y'know. Chrono trigger is kind of unlikely, considering it isn't the most popular Square Enix thing, along with adventure quest, that's just an internet thing. Geno isn't very popular either, but he is related to mario. So I still think Sora overall makes the cut, but that's just an opinion.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I've still got the feeling that Sora would have the best moveset and level and what not. However, I'm just an uber-fan of the series, so just my opinion.

Trust me; There's tons of moveset potential overall in Square-Enix.

For the generic FF characters, they are just 'generic' hence the name. I think we'd rather see someone that isn't a creature or anyting.

What? People really do like say, the Black Mage and Chocobo. People like Yoshi and he's generic. Are you saying people wouldn't be excited? Because If so, not a good point. D;

They're both rather memorable to the titles they are in. Like heck, I've noticed how in Super Mario RPG, Mallow is very similar to a Black Mage.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, here's the thing with Yoshi, and Toad as well, there's THE Yoshi and THE Toad. There's no THE Chocobo, as far as I know, in the SE games. Still, genericness is a weak argument to me anyway.

Man, this place has died down. Should I say the forbidden word to get SmashChu in here?

 

[DekuBoy]

I'm back, and I got some new tricks. How would you guys like unlockable boxart instead of stickers? I think it would be cool to get awesome Japanese boxart.

 

[Big-Cat]

Personally, I'd go with both. When stickers were announced, I considered them to be a museum of sorts for promo art. Speaking of which, what do you guys think of trophies, stickers, boxarts, and dioramas in a Nintendo museum? Brawl's trophy pictures were something like this, but this would also interest people into looking into other games.

 

[DekuBoy]

Dioramas? Like a trophy of the final battle in WindWaker? OH YEAH!

On their next console, Gamecube downloads are a must. Most of my favourite games ever are on it.

 

[Big-Cat]

If the next console gets on with the times, then I'd expect it. Heck, you can download full 360 games onto your XBOX 360.

But yes, dioramas are a must. Come to think of it, we had some like these in Brawl AND Melee. It'd be nice to see this expanded on.

 

[DekuBoy]

So many could be done... I would love it.

Some of the Final Smash trophies tried this idea to an extent.

 

[Mowrt620]

Well, here's the thing with Yoshi, and Toad as well, there's THE Yoshi and THE Toad. There's no THE Chocobo, as far as I know

Dang straight!

 

[Pieman0920]

There is a THE Chocobo though for the whole Chocobo spin off games. (Such as Chocobo Mystery Dungeon, Chocobo Tales, Chocobo Racing, and what not) Its just as valid for that character as it is for Yoshi.

Also if Disney really owns the rights to Sora, then him and Geno would have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Secondly, since Disney is probably a pricy customer (and also it would also probably be a lot easier to work with SE) I would think that KH representation would be even less likely.

 

[Big-Cat]

I wouldn't jump to conclusions with Disney. Think of it this way: Disney knows that the SSB games sell like hot cakes and they would naturally want some of that money if they can get to it. However, if their royalty fees, percent of profits per sale, etc. are too high, they can't get Sora in and reel in what is essentially free money. However, they don't want only a little money. If any of you've taken calculus, you might know what I'm getting at.

There's a certain rate or whatever that will give them the most amount of money that Nintendo will be likely to agree on. Basically, we have a mountain. The peak is what Disney wants. Anything after the peak is not good. Everything before is good, but could be better.

Just remember that Disney is a longtime running company. They have experience in this kind of stuff.

Regarding the Chocobo, is the Chocobo that stars in those games the same Chocobo, something like Link, or are they not connected in any way?

 

[Pieman0920]

Well Disney is still very notorious for guarding their characters, so I still don't think its that realistic, especially when SE has the more well known characters to go to. In addition, Sora really isn't viewed by most as a Nintendo character (and he's really not in high demand) and unless someone at Disney beggs Sakurai like Kojima begged him for Snake's inclusion, it seems very random that Sakurai would actually try to get the character.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Chocobo_(Chocobo_Series)

Apparently its the same Chocobo through out, though I would label that closer to being like Yoshi rather than Link who really is sort of the opposite of that. (Its rarely the same Link from game to game)

 

[Mowrt620]

Sora is actually a very popular SE character dude...and considering the fact that KH has been on the DS and Gameboy means that disney and nintendo have had recent communications.

 

[Pieman0920]

Well that's actually more like SE that Nintendo has the relationship with, but whatever.

Anyways, I won't deny that Sora may be a popular character, but he's really not all that demanded amongst Smash fans. Geno gets more people asking for him than Sora does. Quite frankly there's no way Sora's going to get in on popularity like Sonic did, so odds are he needs a insider to get him in, which is something that we have no clue about in the slightest. (Though it is somewhat unlikely in all honesty) And having a game on the DS and the GBA doesn't really mean there's any solid connection. Come back when KH gets something on a main console instead of a portable.

 

[Big-Cat]

And don't forget all the Disney games on the handhelds. Then there's Epic Micky coming out this year.

 

[Pieman0920]

Well most of those Disney games don't technically increase Sora's chances. They just use regular Disney characters, which don't have a chance in the slightest if Sakurai keeps his rules around.. :V

 

[Sk8]

knuckles and shadow Thats it oh and more EarthBound/Mother charecters in SSBB4

 

[Mowrt620]

Well that's actually more like SE that Nintendo has the relationship with, but whatever.

Anyways, I won't deny that Sora may be a popular character, but he's really not all that demanded amongst Smash fans. Geno gets more people asking for him than Sora does. Quite frankly there's no way Sora's going to get in on popularity like Sonic did, so odds are he needs a insider to get him in, which is something that we have no clue about in the slightest. (Though it is somewhat unlikely in all honesty) And having a game on the DS and the GBA doesn't really mean there's any solid connection. Come back when KH gets something on a main console instead of a portable.

I said communications, not connections. Also, what's the problem with having a game on handheld? Just cuz KH wasn't on a main console, doesn't mean it has no relations to nintendo whatsoever...And I never said he was more popular than sonic. He is a very popular 3rd party character tho, no doubt about that. There is only one 3rd party more popular than sonic, and it's Pacman. If pacman were in, SSB4 would have the classic trio! Mario, Sonic, and Pacman, nuff said?

 

[Big-Cat]

Pac-Man's popular? The game itself is, but not the character as it seems.

Anyway, I got a suggestion for a buff to Zelda. As it is right now, Din's Fire is a rather predictable projectile. I was thinking that in exchange for the vertical freedom it has currently, we have a projectile that moves straight with an explosion on contact. If done properly, it can also function as a zoning trap.

 

[Arcadenik]

I main Zelda, not Sheik, and I dislike your suggestion, Kuma. What you are describing for Zelda's Din's Fire is basically Lucas's PK Fire. It might work for Lucas, but not for Zelda. Zelda doesn't have any long-range projectiles and Din's Fire is her only projectile. What you are suggesting is limiting her freedom of range for her Din's Fire from "explodes anytime you want at anywhere high or low" to "explodes only when it hits someone straight ahead".

 

[Big-Cat]

I was having second thoughts about it after posting. Mind you that I was thinking of giving her the freedom of moving as well and that it would have longer than PK Fire. You got any suggestions?

 

[Octave]

I would honestly rather die than see pacman in SSB4.

I'm not going to read through 2k pages of what people think should be in it, but I think they should add some more FE characters like Lyn, Hector, etc. and also Golden Sun characters (at least Isaac, but I think the addition of Saturos or even Alex would be really cool).

 

[Pieman0920]

Pac-Man, according to that half-baked Guiness Book of World Records VG edition thingy is more popular than Mario, though I really doubt that unless they were talking to a much older crowd. As it was, Sonic was the most requested character bar none, and the only character who really seems to have enough people wanting him to be considered even close is Mega Man. And as I said, Sora is a popular character, but he's popular with a different fan base. There are fairly few Smash fans who suggest him, and his franchise really is distant from Nintendo's. And while Sakurai's guidelines for third party characters do let Sora in due to him showing up on a Nintendo handheld system, those still aren't the main systems, and thus I feel its less likley as the core amount of fans are not exposed.

Anyways, since the stage discussion group is pretty much dead in the water, I'mmah post my Kirby stage list here. (And there too right after this) As always, the major point of this is to get music suggestions for anything I missed or should be added.

Kirby Stage 1 (Milky Way Wishes)
Neo Star (K64) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJrVwhmpEH8&
Marx (KSS/SSBB) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLOnXceBI5g&
Drawcia Sorceress (KCC) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1g_y8Jxuss&
Darkmatter (KD3) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nffc2Xi1BY&
Milky Way Wishes (KSS) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgfo83i_mkc
Heart of NOVA (KSS) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrNJ5tIsZgo&
Shiver Star (K64) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNOXJsGoS9A&
Galacta Knight (KSSU) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGcnCVfuPqs&
Staff Role (KSS) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5UPdKeRB7c&

Kirby Stage 2 (City Trial Theme)
Legenday Air Ride Machine (KAR) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aarYgdoXPTc&
Checker Knights (KAR) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdlidNsuBBI&
Dynablade (KAR) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zt1pT5vXiY&
Dark Meta Knight Music (KAM) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSrXvSVDHj0&
Frozen Hillside (KAR) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiUYdM2anXY&
Gourmet Race (KSS/SSBB) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KKW3MT-8PU&
Boss Medley (K/SSBB) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p1BJLlnaXc&
Celestial Valley ( KAR) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_WNYOeUgwQ&
Great Cave Offense (KSS/KAR) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piJ4SjRvtZ4&

PS Kirby Stage 3 (Dreamland)
Dreamland (KSS/SSB) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0lEY6ArdpE&
Squeak Battle (SS/SSBB) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDGj12UGYJY
Butter Building (K/SSBB) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Qo5hKP2yU&
Sand Canyon (KD3) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67MPxnPHBNk&
Green Greens (K/SSBM) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuPsKIuG2XU&
Forrest and Nature Area (KMM) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G_cXX2pNxw&
Ripple Field (KD3) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co1DPfmFTO0&
Intro Music (KD) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9dHYPdTORw

PS Kirby Stage 4 (Fountain of Dreams)
Zero Two (K64/SSBB) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGrbx7XAPbc&
Meta-Knight’s Revenge (KSS/SSBB) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPPwdlgv2cs&
King Dedede’s Theme (KSS/SSBB) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3QRoUTAUco&
Fountain of Dreams (KSS/SSBM) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_QToro5P-I&
Masked Dedede Theme (KSSU) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jQElFV7sZk
Dark Nebula (SS) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HljM9QrNles
Horobita Star (K64) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dueY458JM0&

Milky Way Wishes stage, in my mind, would be a stage without many real hazards, and mostly a lot of things happening in the background (like the moon and sun fighting, and NOVA floating around) I also already explained how I think a City Trial stage would work, as well as the reasoning for the past stages. (Essentially, for City Trial, the platform would be a large air ride machine that would fly around to several locations at or around the city with hazards based around them. Dynablade could also show up as well. Those last two stages were chosen because of balancing issues with my stage list, so sorry Halberd fans)

 

[Mowrt620]

I would honestly rather die than see pacman in SSB4.

I'm not going to read through 2k pages of what people think should be in it, but I think they should add some more FE characters like Lyn, Hector, etc. and also Golden Sun characters (at least Isaac, but I think the addition of Saturos or even Alex would be really cool).

Pssh, Pacman haters....anyways, for Zelda, I like her fire as it is. Maybe it could be a little bit more mobile, like pk thunder, but have the slower feel of pk freeze or something. Hard to explain....

And for 3rd party-type discussion, who do you think should be in as far as 3rd party goes? My votes are Bomberman, Megaman, Sora, Pacman and maybe even Dig-Dug (Don't hate me!)

 

[mystery_dungeon]

@Pieman0920

Where is Kabula on the list? I really like that theme.

 

[Big-Cat]

Pac-Man, according to that half-baked Guiness Book of World Records VG edition thingy is more popular than Mario, though I really doubt that unless they were talking to a much older crowd. As it was, Sonic was the most requested character bar none, and the only character who really seems to have enough people wanting him to be considered even close is Mega Man. And as I said, Sora is a popular character, but he's popular with a different fan base. There are fairly few Smash fans who suggest him, and his franchise really is distant from Nintendo's. And while Sakurai's guidelines for third party characters do let Sora in due to him showing up on a Nintendo handheld system, those still aren't the main systems, and thus I feel its less likley as the core amount of fans are not exposed.

I really really really doubt that Pac-man is the most popular. I'm pretty **** sure that honor belongs to Mario overall.

Don't look at this as to what the Smash fanbase wants. The fanbase, in general, is actually a culmination of several other fanbases. Whether or not Sora is popular with this fanbase is irrelvant as a result. It's like asking the Smash fanbase what Fire Emblem character or MOTHER character they want when not all of them know anything about either of them.

As for the franchise being distant from Nintendo, I don't see that as a big deal. While Nintendo did contact Sega for Sonic, Sakurai was expecting others to contact him for their characters. Thus, despite having 2 out of 6 or so games, Sora stands as much of a chance as how much Disney wants him in. Also, part of me suspects that the next big Kingdom Hearts game will either be on the Wii or XBOX 360 and PS3.

 

[Pieman0920]

@ MD What Kabula Music?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL6RiztoA4I

or this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA6hc1JUgXQ

While I guess the first is sort of a remix of the second one, the first is way too choppy for me. (And its really not that youtube page it seems)

If I were to add it though, I guess it'd go into City Trial

@

Well the Mother/FE thing is more of a pain to deal with than third party characters since they are generally more obscure, but I really don't think anyone can deny that MM is wanted by just about every group. When you have consensus like that, then you've got a pretty clear idea what fans want.

As for Disney contacting Sakurai, they could do that....but we have no idea if they would or would not do that. We don't know what the situation is like there, and anything based around it is utter speculation. Seeing though as the KH series has not been given a major release on a Nintendo system, I somewhat doubt that Disney would contact Nintendo for such a thing.

 

[Big-Cat]

You're right. It's impossible to really say if Disney would do it or not. However, the money is there with Smash so they could. If there was a major release on the Wii, chances would probably sky rocket.

 

[Pieman0920]

Well the problem with the money thing is not only does that apply to Disney, but also any other company. In addition it also means less money for Nintendo, since they would have to pay royalties, and they are already paying some for Snake adn Sonic as it is. Given that the KH fanbase isn't that intune with major Nintendo systems as other series would be, its suspect to say that it would help increase sales, which is what would probably help Nintendo decide between third parties.

 

[mystery_dungeon]

@Pieman0920

The Superstar Ultra remix was what I was refering to.

 

[Jerome]

My New SSB4 Roster

Ok here is a new list for the next smash that seems about right. There is 54 characters on my list and this doesn't include tranformations, pokemon, etc. As for the alternate costumes the only thing that will be different is the B move. Roy and Mewtwo is on the list because their fans will probably beg Nintendo to bring them back. Lucario is the only one who I feel might not make it back. So what do ya think? Is this list accurate?

Mario

Mario (Doctor Mario Alt. Costume)
Luigi
Peach (Rosalina Alt. Costume)
Bowser
Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario

Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
King Krool

Legend of Zelda

Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Tingle

Metroid

Samus/Zero Suit Samus
Ridley

Yoshi

Yoshi

Kirby

Kirby
Metaknight
King Dedede

Star Fox

Fox
Falco
Krystal
Wolf

Pokemon

Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer (Chikorita, Quilava, and Feraligater.)
Mewtwo
Generation 5 Pokemon
JigglyPuff

F-Zero

Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Mother

Ness (Ninten Alt. Costume)
Lucas

Fire Emblem

Marth
Roy
Ike
Micaiah

Warioware

Wario

Pikmin

Olimar

Golden Sun

Issac

Starfy

Starfy

Animal Crossing

Animal Crosser

Retro

Ice Climbers
Mr. Game & Watch
Pit
R.O.B.
Little Mac
Pac-Man

Third Party

Snake
Gray Fox
Sonic
Shadow
Sora
Megaman

 

[DekuBoy]

Not bad but... Sora? Shadow? Gray Fox?

Also PacMan is third-party not retro. (actually he is both. lol)

 

[Mowrt620]

Ok here is a new list for the next smash that seems about right. There is 54 characters on my list and this doesn't include tranformations, pokemon, etc. As for the alternate costumes the only thing that will be different is the B move. Roy and Mewtwo is on the list because their fans will probably beg Nintendo to bring them back. Lucario is the only one who I feel might not make it back. So what do ya think? Is this list accurate?

Mario

Mario (Doctor Mario Alt. Costume)
Luigi
Peach (Rosalina Alt. Costume)
Bowser
Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario

Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong I can't possibly see her as a NO-clone of diddy
King Krool

Legend of Zelda

Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Tingle Sigh, no. Tingle is someone who should just remain an assist trophy. Maybe Skull Kid would be a better addition?

Metroid

Samus/Zero Suit Samus
Ridley Good to see a ridley supporter around here!

Yoshi

Yoshi
Baby mario and baby luigi?
Kirby

Kirby
Metaknight
King Dedede

Star Fox

Fox
Falco
Krystal
Wolf

Pokemon

Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer (Chikorita, Quilava, and Feraligater.) Let's just keep Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur, since they're recognizable pokemon for people who play the game and people who don't also
Mewtwo
Generation 5 Pokemon
JigglyPuff

F-Zero

Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh Eh, I think F-Zero is fine as it is

Mother

Ness (Ninten Alt. Costume)
Lucas

Fire Emblem

Marth
Roy Maybe if he isn't a clone. Even so, this series doesn't need 4 reps, y'know
Ike
Micaiah Again, maybe

Warioware

Wario
Maybe waluigi? I know he isn't literally Warioware, but y'know...
Pikmin

Olimar

Golden Sun

Issac

Starfy

Starfy I'm not feeling it...

Animal Crossing

Animal Crosser Heck yes!

Retro

Ice Climbers
Mr. Game & Watch
Pit
R.O.B. Eh, I don't know if he should continue on the road of SSB...
Little Mac
Pac-Man Hex hyesz!

Third Party

Snake
Gray Fox I say this a lot, but no more than ONE rep per 3rd party series, okay!?!?
Sonic
Shadow Read my gray fox comment...
Sora Considering the fact that I'm wearing a KH shirt right now, I'm a super-fan of the series and completely agree that he should be in 'high five'
Megaman

Comments in bold.
Don't try to overload the list with not-so-important characters or lot's of reps for small series. Otherwise, pretty good....

Oh yeah, for alternate costumes, no different movesets or anything, way to confusing. Maybe just a different costume, and nothing else. (Like mario can also look like raccoon mario and dr. mario, but still do all of his moves the same.)

 

[Jerome]

Well Pokemon Heart Gold and Soul Silver is coming out this year so Chikorita, Quilava, and Feraligater has a decent chance. As for Waluigi until he is on a Warioware game he probably won't make the cut.

 

[Mowrt620]

Well Pokemon Heart Gold and Soul Silver is coming out this year so Chikorita, Quilava, and Feraligater has a decent chance. As for Waluigi until he is on a Warioware game he probably won't make the cut.

Sure they might be coming out SOON, but the three original pokemon are the best, considering many people know them. With a big series like pokemon, they have to make choices that are common with people that don't play the games that much (like me).

 

[Big-Cat]

Okay guys, I have another moveset change suggestion. This time, for Mario. Special thanks to BEES for the idea.

Mario's supposed to be the jack of all trades character, right? So, why not let that be evident in his special. Thus, I bring this change.

Down B: Power Change
With no lag in switching, Mario swaps between different powers: Fire, Ice, Hammer, Tanooki, and Luma. Here are the properties and uses for each.

Fire
This is the default power Mario will have. When this power is used, he will look as he does normally. This move is spammable with three fire balls that can be shot out at a time like in the Mario games.

Ice
When this power is used, Mario will have ice coming out of his hands like a blue fire. This move cannot be spammed. This moves at a moderate pace with a high arch. If it hits, the opponent freezes temporarily, but this can be broken out of by wiggling the control stick.

Hammer
When this power is used, Mario will have the Hammer Bro. Helmet. This move is launched upwards at an arch, but the arch is not long. The brightside is that it's good for shield breaking.

Tanooki
When this power is used, Mario will have a Tanooki/Tanuki tail. This grants the ability to slow fall for a certain amount of time as long as Mario holds down B. This is ideal for horizontal recovery and for combos.

Luma
When this power is used, a Luma is by Mario's side. This power essentially replaces F.L.U.D.D. as Mario's gimp move. However, this move affects those close to Mario (about the range of Toon Link's Spin) and inflicts no damage.

You guys have any more suggestions?

 

[kirox777]

Smash Bros. 4 DS

i think smash bros 4 should be for ds. "Smash Bros. 4 DS" its the perfect title. they should give it graphics like the game "Jump Ultimate Stars". that game was already like a smash bros for DS but an official SmashBros DS with actual nintendo characters would be so much better. but since the ds has a d-pad the controls should be a double tap to dash, i loved the way it was in kirby squeak squad. i pretended that the game i was playing was smash bros and i picked kirby, and the controls felt pretty good especially the double tap. we need more people to ask for a smash bros portable instead of saying how it wouldnt work.

 

[Insetick]

I think SSB4 should be perfect.

 

[Fatmanonice]

It's extremelly unlikely especially now that Iwata just announced about a week ago that the successor to the DS would probably be reveiled by the year's end. Besides, considering the size of the Smash Bros projects I doubt that it will ever stop being a console game.