[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Gengar84]

I wouldn't mind mind seeing Bowser jr., Toad, Paper Mario, or Fawful in the game. My personal preference is either Bowser jr. or Fawful because I think the game could use more villains.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm not saying I believe Toad can't make it because of lack of fighting potential, but be fair: How many of those games did he essentially just jump on enemies, not counting generic powerups?

At this point the whole "x character cannot get in because of lack of fighting abilities" is really moot. Every single character in Smash Bros is doing at least one thing they could not/would not perform in their native games. Some mild (Link jumping) and others more extreme (Capt. Falcon and Fox outside of their craft engaging in combat). The only hinderance is if the character/series are more pacifistic in nature, the reasoning behind the exclusion of Animal Crossing fighters and the Nintendog. So to discredit Toad simply because he "jumped on enemies" is quite pointless when some characters never even had material to begin working with. You are not giving enough credit to the creativity of developers.

 

[majora_787]

But that's the thing. We already have all the major Mario characters in. Now we need to look into the somewhat major characters and that leaves us either with Toad or Jr.. Toad is a humanoid mushroom, he can many attacks and abilities based on his spore emitting and mushroom growing abilities which he expressed in some of the past Mario games. In reality, Toad is a very flexible character in terms of movesets. Jr. on the other hand has been stated to being Bowser's son who resembles him the most (clone messages anyone?).

Note: I am a fan of Jr.; however, I just feel that Toad deserves it over him.

I feel like Mario deserves to be left alone, so we can have some effort put into other series for a while.

 

[AetherEch0s]

i see no reason why they cant do DLC now. If the online is as good as they say, and they save room for it, it should very much be possible. Even if you have to load the character off of an sd card or hardrive instead of the disk before each match, atleats that character is there. Im sure nobody would mind a few minutes load time.

 

[Steam]

I think... they should just have a fscking massive roster.

/thread

still would not want to see toad playable. but that's not my decision

 

[Zap tackle]

I feel like Mario deserves to be left alone, so we can have some effort put into other series for a while.

I understand; however, you have to take note that Mario is Nintendo's biggest and best selling franchise. After not having a character for Brawl, Mario definitely might have one or two newcomers this round (if SSB4 does get created).

 

[Steam]

is Mario still outselling pokemon? I'd imagine it would be getting close at this point.

 

[AetherEch0s]

yeah. Its not like the low amount of characters is making it any more balanced. They should go for 50-70 to get in all of the ones we want. I dont care if Ridley is a Charizard clone, if Bowser Jr is a Bowser clone, or if Zoroark is a Lucario clone, as along as they are in, its fine with me, and a majority of the fans. Its to the point that some people just dont care. It would make sense to keep the roster low if they were even going to attempt to balance things, but they obviously arent.

 

[Starphoenix]

is Mario still outselling pokemon? I'd imagine it would be getting close at this point.

Yes; as of now it is still ranked Mario, Pokémon, and the "Wii" line.

 

[majora_787]

I understand; however, you have to take note that Mario is Nintendo's biggest and best selling franchise. After not having a character for Brawl, Mario definitely might have one or two newcomers this round (if SSB4 does get created).

But the thing is, I don't see why we need to add Toad when we haven't gotten Ridley. That's not a direct comparison as much as it is this:

Why add the smallest major characters from the biggest franchise when we haven't gotten the biggest major characters in several other franchises? I mean hell, I'd rather see Pandora's Tower on the roster than see three more mario reps that could have been time spent on another series.

With DLC? I wouldn't care. Because you know what? With DLC, we'd be able to have each others' cake, eat our own, and share the leftovers. The coolest thing would be if they did DLC, and had the veterans as "free downloads", so you could essentially have only the characters you want.

Some people could end up with a big 60-character roster after 3-4 years, while some people might find it fine to have about 12 characters like in 64. It wouldn't matter who gets in, because odds are, everyone who meet the popularity criteria and the relevance criteria will make it in sooner or later.

In the end, I'd probably be the person who buys like 90% of the available DLC roster, except for Tingle and Goku(kidding). But yeah. DLC? A beautiful thing.

 

[refugee]

I totally agree with that refugee. My only concern is that they might intentionally leave content out of the game itself in order to make more money off forcing people to download them.

That's what I am worried about as well but I don't recall Nintendo being the type of company to do that. However, I won't be shocked to see if that happened. I still think the positives would outweigh the negatives though. The two things I want to see improved in SSB are

1) Online. The matches should be nowhere near as laggy as they are now. There should be a ranked playlist for various game types along with playlists that are not ranked (just like Halo in that respect). Also, voice chat and plenty of other basics that should be included more in Nintendo games with multiplayer.

2) Stage Builder. It should be expanded and be allowed to be played online with friends.

Basically, just giving more power to the player. If this happens then the game would keep people hooked, and by hooked I mean addicted, long after release. Sure it happens now but if this were to happen a much larger chunk of the population would fit the description.

 

[Steam]

yeah. Its not like the low amount of characters is making it any more balanced. They should go for 50-70 to get in all of the ones we want. I dont care if Ridley is a Charizard clone, if Bowser Jr is a Bowser clone, or if Zoroark is a Lucario clone, as along as they are in, its fine with me, and a majority of the fans. Its to the point that some people just dont care. It would make sense to keep the roster low if they were even going to attempt to balance things, but they obviously arent.

it would be easy to not make them clones... comming up with concepts would be easy. programming and making animations would be hard. the reason that there were like direct clones in melee with the same animations were because melee came out like... two years after 64 did.

 

[Shorts]

Its sick how you guys eat through pages.

Anyways, did someone call Bowser Jr. ANNOYING? Have you listened to toad? He makes me want to go straight Jill Valentine on his species. But seriously, toad is just as annoying. "Help me I can't do anything" *insert his annoying smoking five year old voice. Toad himself once admitted in a game that he can't do much. He runs around with his little limbs getting captured by Bowser or needing help on some sort of failed mission he began. People like Bowser Jr. saying that he isn't liked is just dumb and I was born in 1993. So, there. My opinion "counts".

 

[Zap tackle]

But the thing is, I don't see why we need to add Toad when we haven't gotten Ridley. That's not a direct comparison as much as it is this:

Why add the smallest major characters from the biggest franchise when we haven't gotten the biggest major characters in several other franchises? I mean hell, I'd rather see Pandora's Tower on the roster than see three more mario reps that could have been time spent on another series.

Ridley does deserve to make it in; however, Toad himself is not that small in terms of the Mario series (not height but in importance). Yes, his game roles are small, but Toad's presence in these games indicates that Nintendo enjoys and likes to use him in most of the Mario games. Additionally, I'd imagine that his popularity is much higher as a Nintendo character as many people are able to recognize him and other Mario characters over the smaller franchises characters. That's why these series get more reps than the others.

Toad himself once admitted in a game that he can't do much. He runs around with his little limbs getting captured by Bowser or needing help on some sort of failed mission he began. People like Bowser Jr. saying that he isn't liked is just dumb and I was born in 1993. So, there. My opinion "counts".

Toad admitting himself as can't doing much was in Mario & Sonic at the winter Olympic games as he was not a playable character in the game so he took the role as a referee. Also Toad is able to fight as well thanks to NSMB Wii. Getting kidnapped is just essential to the plot as Mario and Luigi also got kidnapped in various games too. Yes, and I do respect your opinion.

 

[Kantrip]

How often does this thread drone on about Ridley and the Toad debate, I mean seriously?

 

[refugee]

yeah. Its not like the low amount of characters is making it any more balanced. They should go for 50-70 to get in all of the ones we want. I dont care if Ridley is a Charizard clone, if Bowser Jr is a Bowser clone, or if Zoroark is a Lucario clone, as along as they are in, its fine with me, and a majority of the fans. Its to the point that some people just dont care. It would make sense to keep the roster low if they were even going to attempt to balance things, but they obviously arent.

I don't see why they would be clones. If they are being added as DLC there is no reason why they can't spend more time making original movesets for those characters you listed. If it's 10 characters with the same movesets as each other that would reduce the quality of the game significantly. They should aim for both quantity and quality.

 

[Chidosengan]

I never understood Smashboard's obsession with minor characters.

 

[Steam]

I support the DLC idea heavily... if they did that then basically everyone mentioned would probably make it in as long as they're feasable.

 

[AetherEch0s]

I know, since Ridley is pretty much guaranteed, i see no need to debate it. Sakurai knows that he should be in now and will try it.

 

[Zap tackle]

How often does this thread drone on about Ridley and the Toad debate, I mean seriously?

Either when someone mentions them, or when someone makes a discussion for new Mario characters and someone calls Toad as a non viable candidate because he can't fight or that he is minor. After this, the huge discussions occur. I believe this is the reason.

 

[ToddCam]

I think DLC would be great. i would even download Geno... well, maybe...

 

[Gengar84]

Why does Geno get all the love? I feel really bad for Mallow, he feels so neglected.

 

[refugee]

I support the DLC idea heavily... if they did that then basically everyone mentioned would probably make it in as long as they're feasable.

I still think that they shouldn't just throw every single character in the game without a second thought though. For example, just make Dr. Mario a costume option like how Wario has a Warioware and Classic outfit instead of just giving Dr. Mario a character slot. It should still be balanced. What's the sense of having say, 75 characters if 5 of them always dominate?

 

[refugee]

Why does Geno get all the love? I feel really bad for Mallow, he feels so neglected.

I actually supported the inclusion of Mallow in Brawl a lot before the game finally came out and I saw neither of them made it.

 

[AetherEch0s]

Because everyone isnt an elitist and everyone wont play as the top characters. Although Metaknight is the top, people still play the rest of the roster, even the bottom. The more characters you have, the more variety. It doesnt matter if there are 5 on top when people will play the ones under that.

 

[refugee]

Because everyone isnt an elitist and everyone wont play as the top characters. Although Metaknight is the top, people still play the rest of the roster, even the bottom.

They will once they get online and discover the only way they stand a chance is to use some cheap character. Balance should still be a priority, even over having a bunch of characters.

 

[AetherEch0s]

Thats why online needs tiers and rankings. So you can have the option of only playing people in your rank/tier.

 

[Steam]

I still think that they shouldn't just throw every single character in the game without a second thought though. For example, just make Dr. Mario a costume option like how Wario has a Warioware and Classic outfit instead of just giving Dr. Mario a character slot. It should still be balanced. What's the sense of having say, 75 characters if 5 of them always dominate?

well this too. but I mean there won't be any exclusions that everyone would freak out about. as soon as said freak out happens, nintendo makes them DLC... if this was the route they took I could easily see characters like falco/wolf, ness/lucas, Lucario/Mewtwo/Zoroark, Ike, RoB avoiding cuts or gettng added in.

 

[Starphoenix]

The reason Mario gets more "reps" is because there are more characters with a level of development, history, and status than most of the other series. Let's break it down:

Donkey Kong: We do have some notable absences in this case. Dixie Kong, Cranky Kong, Funky Kong and King K. Rool are all recurring characters having prominent roles in the series. Though Cranky Kong does no stand much chance to ever become a fighter, but he was listed as he remains a staple of the DK universe.

Legend of Zelda: In every game there is typically Link, Zelda and Ganondorf/Ganon. The only other recurring character has been Tingle, but his vitriol loathing in the West really prevents him from going further than an assist trophy. Every other character has been a one shot used to further the story of the game they appeared in.

Kirby: We have all the main characters; Kirby, Metaknight and King DDD.

Metroid: Ridley and Dark Samus are the prominent candidates here. Everyone else is a one shot or some monstrous alien that would be more appropriate as a boss.

Kid Icarus: Will probably receive another character given it's revival. I'd expect to see the choice tp be between Palutena or Medusa. Leaning more towards Palutena.

Star Fox: Done outside of the potential Krystal addition.

Pokémon: Mewtwo and our next "flavor of the month" Pokémon are the only valid additions as the possibility of swapping PT's trio isn't a "full" addition.

Fire Emblem: May bring Roy back, but if not it is unlikely we will see another addition unless another game is in the near future.

Pikmin: Unless Miyamoto dramatically adds a new character in the next installment, this series is complete.

Ice Climbers, Earthbound, Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B: Complete

Metal Gear Solid, Sonic The Hedgehog: It will stay with the primary guests.

 

[Shorts]

By the looks of Project cafe's memory DLC probably won't be an option. At leats that's what I've been hearing. . . Sooo.

 

[AetherEch0s]

If they plan to do DLC, then several characters should get cut from the main game to make room for new ones. If the system can load a downloaded character off of the harddrive or sd card, theres no need to put such characters on the disk. Once people throw a fit because Ike, Roy, Falco and such arent in the game, then at that time they could throw together a download for them.

 

[Chidosengan]

Project cafe most likely won't be using an HD, so it's probably going to be just like the Wii's flash memory i.e no dlc.

 

[refugee]

Thats why online needs tiers and rankings. So you can have the option of only playing people in your rank/tier.

Yeah but the characters should still be balanced. From what I've read from your posts, you seem just content if there are a bunch of clones and having a big gap between the top character and the rest of the roster. Really, why aren't you against such things?

 

[Steam]

so no DLC... that sucks lol... poor mewtwo

 

[AetherEch0s]

Im saying, as long as the characters are added, some fans will be pleased. I would rather have a ton of unbalanced characters then 30 unbalanced characters. Even with the low roster count, Melee and Brawl are unbalanced, so what is the point of keeping it so low?

 

[refugee]

Project cafe most likely won't be using an HD, so it's probably going to be just like the Wii's flash memory i.e no dlc.

Source? I would assume it is going to have a HDD if it is suppose to superior to the 360/PS3 tech wise.

 

[Shorts]

Project cafe most likely won't be using an HD, so it's probably going to be just like the Wii's flash memory i.e no dlc.

Define HD. Because I'm not clear on what this means. It's rumored to have the same capabilities as somerthing that plays blu-ray discs. Does Blu-Ray strenght neccisarily equal HD?

And how about just having a BALANCED ROSTER? Not 4000000 unbalanced, but a normal amount of characters, who play unique and are balanced. That sounds nice and realisitic.

 

[AetherEch0s]

it IS supposed to be superior to PS3 and XB360, by all specs. Those are just rumors, but still, they claim that it will be better = WILL have room for DLC.

 

[Chidosengan]

Im saying, as long as the characters are added, some fans will be pleased. I would rather have a ton of unbalanced characters then 30 unbalanced characters. Even with the low roster count, Melee and Brawl are unbalanced, so what is the point of keeping it so low?

Subspace Emissary? All of the useless extras (ex. game demos)?

Source? I would assume it is going to have a HDD if it is suppose to superior to the 360/PS3 tech wise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pm5ieVPn5s&feature=feedu

I think that's the right video.

 

[refugee]

Im saying, as long as the characters are added, some fans will be pleased. I would rather have a ton of unbalanced characters then 30 unbalanced characters. Even with the low roster count, Melee and Brawl are unbalanced, so what is the point of keeping it so low?

I think fans would be pissed off if they see that their characters are just colorful punching bags and that they will never improve because the developer didn't see the point on balancing just a little. The point is so the game can be fun for everyone and so people can use the character they like without worrying that it's literally impossible for their character to beat another character.