[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Smash Addict]

Anybody like the idea of kill-streak bonuses? Smash bros unique approach to fighting makes it work imo. Let's say 3 kills ino a row for a health item, 5 for a invincibility star, and 7 for a final smash. Maybe just as a special mode. I took the idea from CoD, but I think it could be aan interesting addition.

 

[Big-Cat]

It's bad design if you excessively award the winning player. The winning player gets momentum and damage dealt so nothing else is needed for the most part. That's because you just make it an uphill fight for the losing player.

 

[ryuu seika]

Yes, reward kill streaks, just don't reward them during the battle. Kill streaks should be rewarded with extra coins and bonus points in story mode and that sort of thing. Maybe a character that can only be unlocked this way.

 

[Smash Addict]

The losing player could get added launch resistance, and besides, how many people do you know who can get five kills without dying, let alone seven?

 

[ryuu seika]

How difficult it is is beside the point. You do not reward a player for completely annihilating there opponent by making doing so easier. That just makes it even more annoying for the losing player.

 

[Sunnysunny]

The majority of fighting games actually reward the loser someway to make it so it's more balanced and not just a total rapefest.

Blazblue: Meter + burst
Street fighter: Ultra bar.
MVC: Meter + stronger x factor

Despite the small boost the loser gains it's still balanced.

 

[ryuu seika]

So maybe the length of respawn invincibility should increase minorly with each successive kill then.
I still say the player doing all that successive killing should be rewarded post match though.

 

[Smash Addict]

How difficult it is is beside the point. You do not reward a player for completely annihilating there opponent by making doing so easier. That just makes it even more annoying for the losing player.

As I said, it might be better as a special mode than a default feature. It's something I really had in mind for 4 player matches anyway. I do like the idea of being able to unlock costumes, stages, etc. by performimg actions based on performance though. As opposed to just playing classic, adventure, or target smash 800 times.

Edit: Actually, how difficult it is is exactly the point of kill streak bonuses. The more difficult the task, the greater the
reward.

 

[Arcadenik]

I know that a lot of fans want a playable Golden Sun character (whether it is Isaac or Matthew is up for debate but my money is on Matthew) in the next Smash Bros. I think I have come up with a good moveset that reflects the gameplay of the Golden Sun games. A character's available Psynergy change whenever their Djinn change states in the Golden Sun games. What I came up with is something that is loosely based on that concept. Okay, I really hope you guys can understand what I am trying to explain/describe. I am just going to show you his special moves first and then I will explain them and how they work.

B: Quake (0-1), Thorn (2-3), Gaia (4)

If you have no Djinn or one Djinni, you are able to use the Quake Psynergy. If you have two or three Djinn, you are able to use the Thorn Psynergy. If you have four Djinn, you are able to use the Gaia Psynergy. This is essentially a charging move where the longer you hold down the B button, the stronger the move gets and the bigger its range grows. The closer the opponent is to the Adept, the more damage the opponent gets.

Quake: 0-2 seconds (up to 6%)
Earthquake: 3-6 seconds (up to 17%)
Quake Sphere: 7+ seconds (up to 32%)

Thorn: 0-3 seconds (up to 11%)
Briar: 4-8 seconds (up to 23%)
Nettle - 9+ seconds (up to 46%)

Gaia: 0-4 seconds (up to 10%)
Mother Gaia: 5-10 seconds (up to 25%)
Grand Gaia - 11+ seconds (up to 50%)

Side B: Move / Force / Grip (0-4)

This move is available at all times regardless of the number of Djinn you have on standby. Simply tilt the control stick while pressing the B button and the Psynergy hand will appear out of thin air. The hand will harmlessly move the opponents away from the Adept. The longer you hold down the B button, the hand will continue to move off screen... but there is a catch. While you are holding down the B button, the Adept will be unable to defend himself from behind because he is immobile... just like Snake is during his Side B move. Simply release the B button to end the Move Psynergy. This move is pretty useful for pushing opponents off the stage.

Smash the control stick while pressing the B button and the Psynergy hand will appear in the form of a fist. The punching hand will move faster in a short distance, I would say about the distance of Link's boomerang. The hand will disappear after it travels a certain distance or after it punches an opponent. This is the Force Psynergy and it has decent knockback.

If you are falling off the stage and you are very far from the ledge that the Growth Psynergy isn't enough, simply use the Grip Psynergy instead. Tilt the control stick towards the ledge and press the B button and the Psynergy hand will appear and seek out the nearest ledge. The hand will automatically grip on the ledge and pull you towards the ledge. I would say that this move would function similarly to Ivysaur's Vine Whip and Zero Suit Samus's Side B move. This can be used as a secondary recovery.

Up B: Growth (0-4)

I mentioned the Growth Psynergy briefly. Yes, the Growth Psynergy is the Adept's recovery move and it is available at all times, regardless of the number of Djinn you have on standby. Push the control stick up and press the B button to make a vine grow. The vine is fast-growing and the Adept starts climbing on it like the characters climb ladders in Brawl. Once the Adept climbs up and you feel it is high enough to jump off the vine to reach the ledge safely, press the jump button or use the Grip Psynergy to reach the ledge.

Down B: Flint (0-3), Ragnarok (4)

This is the most important move of all and is the Adept's defining trait. The Adept will have up to four Djinn following behind him. They are a little bit smaller than Olimar's Pikmin but they are large enough to be visible and they are intangible, too. They are all Venus Djinn, of course, because Isaac and Matthew are both Venus Adepts.

If the Adept appears to have no Djinn floating around, it means the Djinn are recovering and you cannot use the Down B move. Once a Djinni is recovered after a 10-second waiting period, it materializes out of thin air as a floating orb. This is when you are now able to use the Down B move. Once you use the Down B move, the floating orb transforms into a Venus Djinn and you use your Djinni-powered sword to attack "with a blow that can cleave stone". Now you have one Djinni floating around you. This is how you set a Djinni on standby.

You are once again unable to use the Down B move until a second orb appears. When it appears, you can use the Down B move to strike your opponents with your Djinni-powered sword. Afterwards, you cannot use the Down B move until a third orb appears. This repeats with the fourth orb as well. This is assuming that you use the Down B move as soon as a new orb appears... this is to prevent the players from spamming this powerful move.

But what happens after you use the fourth orb? Now, you can use the Down B move repeatedly but this time, you are using the Ragnarok Psynergy instead of the Djinni. Ragnarok, I envision, would be similar to Pikachu's Down B move, with a massive sword striking from the sky. This is a powerful move that could potentially score KO's at high damages, especially with the explosion on the ground where the sword hits.

Final Smash: Odyssey (0), Venus (1), Ramses (2), Cybele (3), Judgment (4)

Yes, you read that right. Five different Final Smashes for one character! Which Final Smash you get to use depends entirely on the number of Djinn you have on standby. There are two ways to lose all your Djinn. One way is getting KO'd off the stage. Using Final Smashes is the other way.

When you have no Djinn, you can only use the Odyssey Psynergy as your Final Smash. This is basically a stronger version of the Ragnarok Psynergy but it has a horizontal range that deals massive damage on multiple opponents with high knockback. I would probably compare it to Samus's Final Smash.

If you have one Djinni, you can use the Venus summon. With two Djinn, the Ramses summon. With three Djinn, the Cybele summon. With four Djinn, the Judgment summon. After you use the summon, you lose all your Djinn and they are now in recovery mode. And you will not be able to use the Down B move for the next 10 seconds.

Umm... I hope it wasn't too confusing for you. LOL

 

[augustoflores]

10 seconds... that means it is 40 seconds for all 4 djinn. Wario waft fully charges at 1 minute and 44 seconds. do you know what i am getting at?
i say that 4 djinn is 2 minutes and that at the start of the battle, he is to have no djinni available... an Adept is just too powerful, y'know?
i wouldn't want the djinn to float in the battlefield with the playable adept, intangible or not. i'd prefer they just be icons on the player's screen or they can keep it hidden on the controller's screen.

come to think of it... wouldn't it be cool if every character had their own personal control screen?

furthermore, i don't really like the idea to use the djinn in battle... personally, i would like the djinn to be another form of pokeballs and assist trophies... how about orbs that make a shine sound when they manifest? they just plop onto the ground from the top blast zone.
now i don't know the true rules of usage of djinn but it is smash bros so does it really matter?

 

[Smash Addict]

Also, I have two more ideas on how to implement this idea. 1: a visual cue letting other players know that a player is on, or on the verge of, a kill streak. Like how the ball on NBA Jam catches fire for a number of consecutive scores. That makes that player a target for the others, making the challenge even greater. 2: Alternatively, items could drop in a crate ala CoD. That way the winning player still has to capture the item.

One more unrelated item, I want a worm from the "worms" series as a character. I don't care about feasability, I just want it. Their voices alone are reason enough. Also, there are so many attacks for them that would fit with the SB francise.

Up + B = ninja rope or jet pack
Fwd + B = sheep
Final smash = Holy hand grenade etc.

 

[augustoflores]

okay, you're clearly a shooter fan, (or as millions call themselves, "the core gamers" (waving my jazz hands with a sarcastic voice)) but please, no more talk of killstreaks... even in a special brawl...

 

[SmashChu]

I was looking for this thread. This forum seriously needs a search feature. Just wanted to share this cause its been circling around.

Looks nicely made, yet my take is its fake. But makes me excited to see what Nintendo will bring to the table this E3 for 3DS or Project Cafe :D

I really like how this looks. Where did you find this?

 

[Smash Addict]

okay, you're clearly a shooter fan, (or as millions call themselves, "the core gamers" (waving my jazz hands with a sarcastic voice)) but please, no more talk of killstreaks... even in a special brawl...

Not that it's very relevant, but I grew tired of shooters a while ago. Unless you count Mass Effect, which is also an RPG. I actually can't stand CoD. I just thought it was a good idea is all.

 

[Big-Cat]

@SmashChu
I think the image first came from 4Chan. As such, take it with a grain of salt.

And looking at the logo, is anyone else besides me getting a Melee Final Destination feeling from it?

@Arc
These sound like nice ideas, but how do you get Djinn in the first place? Based of this moveset, this is definitely something that is best suited for that four button system I proposed since there are so many options you've mentiond. Aside from that, I find it hard to visualize how you can safely acquire Djinn without being too predictable.

 

[Smash Addict]

How about a slime/oil-slick item that causes characters to slide around or make edges unable to be grabbed onto for a short time? Takers?

 

[ryuu seika]

Have it come out of a green balloon with yellow star patterns and I'm all for it.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I wouldn't be surprised if Alex Strife made that logo. xD

Also, that item would be pretty cool. Diddy Kong Racing ftw.

 

[Big-Cat]

That's not a bad idea actually. Also shows the importance of edgeguarding to beginners.

 

[Smash Addict]

Have it come out of a green balloon with yellow star patterns and I'm all for it.

Sorry, not getting the reference.

 

[Big-Cat]

You poor soul. You never got to play Diddy Kong Racing.

 

[BirthNote]

I think that oil idea is pretty good.

 

[Smash Addict]

Nope. Afraid not.



@ birthnote
Thank you

 

[ryuu seika]

I really do feel sorry for you.

 

[overgamer]

You poor soul. You never got to play Diddy Kong Racing.

Best game after Mario Kart 64 imo.

 

[ryuu seika]

I'm still not sold on Mario Kart 64. It's just like Double Dash but less in every way. That does include less downright obnoxious towards the player though so I can safely say it's the better of the two.

While we're on the subject of Diddy Kong Racing items, however, magnets could be a great laugh aswell.

 

[BirthNote]

How about that bubble that traps players? If they don't pop out, they float off the stage.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ KumaOso

When the match starts, the Adept begins with only one orb. He can use Down B to use Flint. When the orb becomes a Djinni, that is how you know you have set the Djinni to standby.

But he is then unable to use Down B again for the next 10 seconds. When the second orb appears, you are now able to use Down B again. After this, you have set the second Djinni to standby and you now have two Djinni on standby.

But he is once again unable to use Down B for the next 10 seconds. When the third orb appears, you can use Down B to attack with Flint and you now have three Djinn on standby.

Finally, you cannot use Down B for 10 seconds until the fourth and final orb appears. With the last orb, you can use Down B to attack with Flint and set it to standby.

Now, with four Djinn on standby, you can now use Down B anytime but you are not using Flint anymore. You are using the Ragnarok Psynergy. I suppose this is when you can spam Down B if you want.

When you use the Final Smash, all the Djinn you have on standby are used up. Then you are now unable to use Down B for the next 10 seconds until the first orb reappears again.

If you have no orbs present OR even if you have only one orb but it is not a Djinni yet, and you use the Final Smash, you will just use the Odyssey Psynergy instead of summoning Venus, which would have cost you one Djinni if you had used Down B before using Final Smash.

However, if you have an orb and you did not use it yet within the next 10 seconds, a second orb will appear. If you have two orbs and wait 10 more seconds, a third orb will appear. If you have three orbs and wait 10 more seconds, the last orb will appear. You could either spam Down B four times in a row or save the orbs for finishing moves. I think smart players would rather save the orbs and use them for when they need it. I think this will motivate the player to conserve the Adept's Djinn and use it as a finishing move as opposed to spamming it like some people do with Pikachu's Down B move.

The concept is similar to Wario's Down B move... but you do not keep the Djinn you set on standby when you get KO'd. They return to the recovery state and you have to wait 10 seconds before the first orb appears. This is different from Wario's Down B where he retains the built-up power after getting KO'd.

I really think this idea could give the Adept (whether Isaac or Matthew) some options about what to do with the Djinn... should he use them right away or save them for later?

The flowchart for the Djinni system would be something like this:

1. No orbs (recovery, can't use Down B for 10 seconds)
2. Orb (use Down B anytime to attack with Flint and set it to standby)
3. Djinni (on standby, can't use Down B for 10 seconds if you have no orbs or can use Down B anytime if you already have at least one orb)
4. Final Smash (use all the Djinn you have on standby)
5. No orbs (recovery, can't use Down B for 10 seconds)
and so on...

 

[Big-Cat]

That sounds like it's more complicated than it needs to be. Ten seconds is also a very long time in videogame time. I understand you're trying to be faithful here to the games since I've played Dark Dawn (still need to fight the last boss), but this just seems like it's too difficult to implement properly in Smash, even with the proposed system I've mentioned earlier.

Ever since I played Dark Dawn myself, I think it's probably for the best to let our Adept's strategy revolve around the Move power, but this also makes him one of the hardest characters to balance.

 

[ryuu seika]

How about that bubble that traps players? If they don't pop out, they float off the stage.

I thought about that but it seems like we're only using greens then, though it's not really a problem.

I'm not sure it'd even have to move. Simply holding them in place would make them vulnerable enough to make the item worthwhile.

 

[majora_787]

That logo actually looks pretty interesting. I would like to believe that it's real, but... I just can't do it. xD

 

[Shorts]

That picture is very nice. I like how unfriendly it looks. It doesn't have pretty colors designed to entice toddlers so that's always a plus. That gives me the impression that it's not so much like Brawl.

Fan Art deiguised as the real deal and rumors are starting to surface again, that is always a good sign. I definitely looks better then the "Super Smash Brothers Revolution" boxcases I've seen in the past. Hah.

 

[majora_787]

I want this to be different. But in all seriousness?

Best case scenario: The name is real, the announcement is gonna happen, the screen is real, and the game is being made by Retro. Calling it right now. *kidding*

If anything, I just want the announcement to happen.

 

[Shorts]

game is being made by Retro

Okay, who the 4exes is this? Whenever I see the name RARE immediately pops into my head. What games has Retro made and why are they deserving of making smash?

 

[majora_787]

Okay, who the 4exes is this? Whenever I see the name RARE immediately pops into my head. What games has Retro made and why are they deserving of making smash?

Retro studios made the sexiness that was the Metroid Prime trilogy, and they also made Donkey Kong Country Returns. IDK how good that was, but I heard it was good.

EDIT: I mean, let's be honest. They're a great developer under Nintendo, and HAL Labs probably won't be dealing with this since Sakurai intends to wash his hands of Smash Bros.

 

[Shorts]

Retro studios made the sexiness that was the Metroid Prime trilogy, and they also made Donkey Kong Country Returns. IDK how good that was, but I heard it was good.

I just want to know if them making these games really qualifies them to make a fighting game. I mean. . . . . does it? I can only assume making making Smash and making Metroid are really dissimilar.

 

[majora_787]

I just want to know if them making these games really qualifies them to make a fighting game. I mean. . . . . does it? I can only assume making making Smash and making Metroid are really dissimilar.

Making Smash and making Kirby aren't exactly the same, either.

 

[Life]

Retro hasn't had a flop yet AFAIK.

Nintendo had one. Geist.

Retro>Ninty?

Nah, but I can't wait to see if a new game gets announced at E3

 

[Alphalink]

Another pic sprung up from 4Chan. Pic looks like its from a Slideshow or something (at least that may be what they are trying to imitate)

I really wish this were true!

 

[majora_787]

AND, to be fair, did making Metroid Prime qualify them for Donkey Kong? Not exactly.

I believe, given the series as a reference point and some time and money, Retro could do a good job with any Nintendo series from F-Zero to Star Fox to Smash Bros.

EDIT: That pic looks a lot like a link to 4chan, IMO.