[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Kantrip]

I don't know. I started to like how Fludd was a unique Mario object that was different than the Luigi Tornado. What would Luigi get?

 

[Sunnysunny]

Yea. I'd like to see em add more moves from recent games.
Like ok I know this is a stretch, but i'd like to see either mario or luigi use the ice flower power up rather then the fire one. Also whatever happened to luigi's thunder powers from superstar saga? That woulda been really cool. D:

 

[SuperMetroid44]

I was thinking about Zoroark and how his Illusion ability could be used in Smash. Maybe Down B could just have him transform into a random Smash character? He could be like the Shang Tsung of Smash.

1st transform - transform into a random character (ex. Mario)
2nd transform - transform back to Zoroark
3rd transform - transform into another random character (ex. Link)
4th transform - transform back to Zoroark
and so on...

Zoroark as Mario wouldn't be able to use FLUDD and Zoroark as Link wouldn't be able to use bombs. Them are the breaks. Play as the whole roster within one character? What's the catch? You can't use their Down B moves and Final Smashes. What do you think?

Bad idea, and would probably have long loading times since it takes a RANDOM character and changes to it, and we're not even talking about colors yet. I like the other moves you put for Zoroark, but this move is just... no. That's my opinion.

 

[ryuu seika]

I don't know. I started to like how Fludd was a unique Mario object that was different than the Luigi Tornado. What would Luigi get?

The old Mario Tornado.

Mario gets:
-small jump if used in air
-horizontal windbox around the move
-more damage and knockback
-projectile deflection

Luigi gets:
-multiple hits (Mario loses atleast some of these)
-more control (like he has now)

They'd become very different, even if they are still technically the same move.

I'd like to see either mario or luigi use the ice flower power up rather then the fire one. Also whatever happened to luigi's thunder powers from superstar saga? That woulda been really cool. D:

Are the ice flower powers just cold fireballs? If so, Luigi could easily get those instead of green fire.
I'm not sure lightning would be as easy to implement.

 

[Kantrip]

Why don't we just replace Mario's cape for it then? It sounds like the same thing and would feel more natural coming out as a side-b rather than down, considering it gives you vertical as well as horizontal distance and deflects projectiles.
F.L.U.D.D is more recent than the flight cape anyhow.

 

[ryuu seika]

I don't like F.L.U.D.D. in the slightest but that does make sense.

 

[BirthNote]

Why don't we just replace Mario's cape for it then? It sounds like the same thing and would feel more natural coming out as a side-b rather than down, considering it gives you vertical as well as horizontal distance and deflects projectiles.
F.L.U.D.D is more recent than the flight cape anyhow.

Ah, but ZS Samus's DownB is a jump as well. Not to mention Fox's DownB reflects and strategically disrupts his fall. Plus, Mario's Galaxy tornado doesn't reflect all projectiles and reverse movement--the cape normally didn't either, but I do realize that SSB has some..."creative freedom" with movesets. Personally I would like for that Tornado to replace FLUDD cuz I see it as more useful, but all I can do is hope and nothing more.

Anyway, about that Mario stage topic, I don't have a problem with how they do it. Whether its a combination of different series or just a stage with one general theme like an RPG, I'm fine with it. That was just a thought I was willing to share.

Does anyone wonder about Yoshi's potential after he's been playable in Galaxy 2? I hope they add 1 little thing...

 

[majora_787]

Ah, but ZS Samus's DownB is a jump as well. Plus, Mario's Galaxy tornado doesn't reflect all projectiles and reverse movement--the cape normally didn't either, but I do realize that SSB has some..."creative freedom" with movesets. Personally I would like for that Tornado to replace FLUDD cuz I see it as more useful, but all I can do is hope and nothing more.

Anyway, about that Mario stage topic, I don't have a problem with how they do it. Whether its a combination of different series or just a stage with one general theme like an RPG, I'm fine with it. That was just a thought I was willing to share.

Does anyone wonder about Yoshi's potential after he's been playable in Galaxy 2? I hope they add 1 little thing...

Well, maybe it'll give Yoshi a useful up-B. Hopefully. Fingers crossed.

 

[BirthNote]

LOL, like Blimp Yoshi? I guess its possible, and it sounds okay. That "1 little thing" I was hinting at was pretty minor. You know how certain enemies in Galaxy 2 aren't instantly swallowed by Yoshi? He has the option to fire Spinies and Bullet Bills back, so I was hoping that idea could make it in. The two ways that I thought of would be these:
1) Press B near a foe, and Yoshi swallows them. You now have the option to digest them, or spit them back Kirby style.
2) Press B near an object, and Yoshi swallows the item. He can walk around with it in his mouth and launch it at enemies.

I like the second option more, because it doesn't upset the quickness of what Yoshi currently does, and I suppose its more unique than the first. I'm basically hoping that egg lay works as it normally does on foes, and gives Yoshi a new projectile option when used on items.

At the moment, that's all the Yoshi ideas I can think of. Its hard for me to suggest new moves whether they're replacements or not without changing Yoshi significantly.

 

[majora_787]

LOL, like Blimp Yoshi? I guess its possible, and it sounds okay. That "1 little thing" I was hinting at was pretty minor. You know how certain enemies in Galaxy 2 aren't instantly swallowed by Yoshi? He has the option to fire Spinies and Bullet Bills back, so I was hoping that idea could make it in. The two ways that I thought of would be these:
1) Press B near a foe, and Yoshi swallows them. You now have the option to digest them, or spit them back Kirby style.
2) Press B near an object, and Yoshi swallows the item. He can walk around with it in his mouth and launch it at enemies.

I like the second option more, because it doesn't upset the quickness of what Yoshi currently does, and I suppose its more unique than the first. I'm basically hoping that egg lay works as it normally does on foes, and gives Yoshi a new projectile option when used on items.

At the moment, that's all the Yoshi ideas I can think of. Its hard for me to suggest new moves whether they're replacements or not without changing Yoshi significantly.

I imagine it'd be like Kirby's exhaling, only it would be actually MEANT to be a projectile, so would probably be stronger.

 

[The Joker]

And as far as wish-lists go, the only character that I am actually rooting for to appear in a future Smash game is the Balloon Fighter. He fits the random retro character role perfectly, and I feel he has great potential for an extremely unique moveset.

And I thought my jokes were bad.

 

[Shorts]

Just because we don't want smash to have such an unchallenging playstyle doesn't mean WE NEED TO TO BE LIKE X GAME! You're all idiots if you assume thats what I mean by having smash not be so dumbed down. It needs more complexity in my opinion. More then Melee had even.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

And I thought my jokes were bad.

Actually, it wasn't a joke at all.

Just because we don't want smash to have such an unchallenging playstyle doesn't mean WE NEED TO TO BE LIKE X GAME! You're all idiots if you assume thats what I mean by having smash not be so dumbed down. It needs more complexity in my opinion. More then Melee had even.

I realize this, I'm just getting tired of seeing Smash being compared to Street Fighter and Marvel Vs. Capcom and BlazBlue and several others fighting games. It isn't supposed to be like those games... it isn't your regular, everyday fighting game.

I like the simple gameplay, although I agree that a few changes and additions here and there to keep things fresh and bring something new to the fighting aspect of the game wouldn't hurt and in fact is quite welcome, as long as the gameplay doesn't deviate from its roots, and as long as it doesn't become too complicated. When I say I like the simple gameplay, I'm not talking about Brawl's level of simplicity... a game more like Melee is something I want to see.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Actually, it wasn't a joke at all.

He's trolling bro. Check his username. xD

 

[SmashChu]

1. Name me one fighting game that doesn't have combos that isn't a Smash-knockoff.
2. Small subset? You need to look this stuff up more.

First, it really doesn't matter. Fighting games are not deffined by combos. Fighting games are fighting games because "Your goal is to beat up the other player." Combos do not define the genre. As far as other games that are fighting games that lack combos, I can't say because my knowledge of fighting games is slim (I don't play every game on the planet). But take Wrestling. Combos aren't really a part of it. I would suspect a wrestling game would lack them

The seocnd point is going to set the tone for the rest of the post. It's "I think things are true even when they are false."

Note that the games you are trying to make Smash (like Street Fighter and Guilty Gear) sold less than WWE/WWF and DBZ games. In other words, people are playing those games more than the ones you want to discuss.

Footstool Jumping came from KSS? While it wouldn't surprise me since this is Sakurai, but that kind of thing has been around since Super Mario Bros.

And why not look at other genres? There's nothing wrong with looking at other games or, in your pigeonholed view, successful games. In fact, the idea for I had for airdashing originally came from Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days, not BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, or any other fighter with it. A problem though, with trying to adapt mechanics from other games that seem appealing is that you run into the issue of whether or not the game can work with it. That being said, I admit that my ideas may not work that well when implemented, but that can be said for anyone's ideas.

What I was looking at were ideas you ripped from fighting games, thus my point. That was what I was quoting. Otherwise, the rest of the post isn't really a reputtle, but OK.

Correction: YOU think it's bad design. Knowing you, if it comes from a non-Smash fighting game, you automatically knock it off as trash. And do we want three attack buttons? To a certain extent yes. When I came up with this button system, I spread out the attacks to different buttons to eliminate the minor execution barrier some have with Smash attacks and to make it so doing combos wasn't just mashing the A button mindlessly. I think most people would rather play knowing what they're doing than not after all. The way ground game would work would be fundamentally changed, but considering that it's weak in Brawl compared to the aerial game, this might not be such a bad idea.

Your not getting what I am saying at all. I think you are letting the feet think for the brain.

Adding more buttons complicates things, not make it better. This means attacks are spread out to different buttons. The system works as you only have standard attack and special attack and that's it. People understand that if you press a direction, the attack hits hard. Remember, people have choses Smash because it is easier to get into. .

The other thing your missing is that the point is that the ideas you have, in general, are not smash. The do not follow what the identity of Smash Brothers is. Three buttons makes no sense when the idea was to reduce buttons (that's why the game only needs 3). The game was also suppose to be fundamentally different than other fighting games, so why are you trying to make it a carbon copy. You need to ask "What is Smash Brothers." before you start thinking about gameplay changes.

Funny you mention that. Sakurai set out to elimiate technical barriers for players, hence the decision to narrow it to two attack buttons, but IMO, this complicates things for some people as I mentioned earlier. A single button that does everything would probably confuse people than help them.

This post makes no sense. We know a big reason for the game's success is that it reduces the technical difficulties opposed to a lot of other games on the market. But "in your opinion." it makes it worse. It doesn't line up. The post is trying to say "Yes, see, I get it. I know the REAL problem." when it's a guise for your ideas.

Combos primarily exist for two reasons: To look flashy so people will be interested (Ooh! I want to do that!) and to establish the punishment game. Without combos, characters that can get in and out with no problem have the advantage (see Meta Knight). If they get hit by a stronger attacking character, they can just keep out and wait for another chance to strike while the slower, stronger character struggles. The proposed system is designed to prevent this and lets people play who they want, not who's the best (although they can overlap).

There is no evidence that combos want to make people play a game more. This, like good academia, tries to theorize something that doesn't exist.

Easy, most people, as evidence by Smash players who refuse to play other fighting game, find fighting games to be mindless button mashing. It's not easy to understand the thought process behind players if you're new to the game. However, some characters have an easier time getting the message across that there is strategy in fighting games like Sonya in Mortal Kombat, She-Hulk and Jill in MvC3, and more because they start off with an attack that follows into several different attacks so newcomers can understand the depth of the game and the concept of mixups.

Say what you will, but Marvel vs Capcom IS a mindless button masher. The game is more mussel memory than anything else and this is how people feel. A lot of my friends who played and enjoyed SF4 hate MvC for this reason. You can not educate the maarket. They think what they want to and they are usually right (they are on the ground level while those working on the game are 20,000 ft up). They think it's a button masher and that's that.

Also, no one cares about depth. This is why PONG became successful over Space Wars.

It should be difficult to tell what a player's strategy is, especially at the higher level. It should not be difficult to convey the message to newcomers that there is strategy in these games.

There is more strategy in higher level play. Lower level play has little for an action game. The post is backwards.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I just want to point out that MvC is not mindless button-mashing. Try it and you'll get mauled.

 

[PZ]

O I remeber when I played the first mvc. I was mindlessly hitting buttons until a hyper or super came out with megaman. I beat very hard mode easily n won new stuff...good times.

 

[Shorts]

But take Wrestling. Combos aren't really a part of it. I would suspect a wrestling game would lack them

Just because there is physical combat in a game does NOT make it a fighting game. The way you play wrestleing games (The ones I played) do not play like 90% percent of games that fall under the fighting game genre. The ones I've played require you to push a grab button, then push a specific number of buttons. Hardly any skill involved or any movement for that matter.

Wrestling Games fall under their own catagory (Or at least a sub-catagory) and are almost all not comparable to any fighting game. Traditional or not. Wrestling games are not fighting games. They play more like "Bakugan Battle Brawlers" then SF or SSB.

 

[majora_787]

Just because there is physical combat in a game does NOT make it a fighting game.

"A fighting game is a game with the goal of beating up the other player/CPU opponent."

... Most games with physical combat, I.E. fighting, have a greater goal.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I really wouldn't consider wrestling games true fighting games, to be completely honest.

In a different vein, however, of how I don't consider Dragon Ball Z Raging Blast to be a fighting game either. That game is just god ****ing awful.

 

[The Joker]

Anyone think that Victini could be a character? He's got the main role in two movies that are coming out simultaneously. Also, V-create final smash ftw.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Well the majority of people think he'll be put in too represent 5th gen over zoroark.
I'm not too sure who it will be though. Victini's movies will be released closer to the release date of the next smashbros, but so far every new pokemon gen represent has been an anthro sooooo I don't know. I'm rooting for zoroark though. C:

 

[augustoflores]

Well the majority of people think he'll be put in too represent 5th gen over zoroark.
I'm not too sure who it will be though. Victini's movies will be released closer to the release date of the next smashbros, but so far every new pokemon gen represent has been an anthro sooooo I don't know. I'm rooting for zoroark though. C:

you sound as though it is a guarantee that we will get a new smash bros in the near future.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Ignorance is bliss bro. Get on my level of optimism~! :D

To be honest, I rather not even think that theres gonna be another smash bros. The wait kills me. ._.

 

[augustoflores]

no one needs to read the spoiler...

Spoiler

I cannot... when i turned 13, i had an attitude adjustment where i am well grounded to earth... as in i severed my ties with religion... even though i still attended to humor my parents, i had a faux smiley face. this groundification affected more than what i expected. it affected my views of the entire world and what to expect of it. what i can do to change what i see is less than microscopic.
and no, i don't think we are all just dust in the wind... i just need to appreciate and move with the flow of time... sorry to bring you down... lol?

anyways... if there is a new IP by, what do you guys think it could be? a new adventure game? new side-scroller? action? fighting?
sweet!! imagine nintendo makes a fighting game with brand new characters? and i mean a conventional 2D fighter like SFAIII, MKT, GG, BlazBlue, KoFXIII, etc

 

[Sephy95]

Wonder if they'll add in a headset for communication for the new Nintendo system. That way on SSB4 online(if that feature returns) communication can be better. And trolling as well. jk

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

No mics, I don't want to imagine. O_O

 

[Gatlin]

I personally would rather not listen to other people screaming/yelling/complaining/etc while playing. I wouldn't mind talking with friends or whatever, but that's what Skype's for.

 

[Sonic Poke]

So guiz I her u liek rostrrz so I maed u wan
Super Mario Bros. Series:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.

-Bowser Jr. is a major character in the franchise. Getting big roles in pretty much every main series Mario venture since his conception, and has gotten plenty of moveset potential from those appearances. Some people suggest Shadow Mario as a Zelda/Sheik-like alternate, but I think Mario Sunshine is a bit too outdated, and not many people care about ol' bluey anymore.

It is possible, but completely insecure, Bowser Jr. will do the same role as does Toon Link (nothing) and will become a mess.

Mario spinoffs(Yoshi, Wario, Donkey Kong and Paper Mario):
Yoshi
Wario
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong(&Dixie?)
Paper Mario

-I think with a new game coming out, and no Mario RPG representation so far, Paper Mario deserves to be in.

-I still, however, feel that DK should get another rep, and considering PM's inclusion, I think the best possibility is the addition of Dixie as a tag-team with Diddy, in a sort of Zelda & Ice Climbers combined thing.

Never! Paper Mario maybe, but Dixie and Diddy together? Never! Diddy already is great alone! The DK series will probably win Dixie (separate Diddy) K. Rool or Rambi.

Legend of Zelda series:
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link

-Only change here is new movesets for Toon Link and Ganondork. We'll get to the subject of new movesets later.

Tingle's Ultra Epic Flowery Exciting Series of Joy:
Tingle

-Yes, Tingle is added under his own series. He is a major character, appearing in nearly as many Zelda games as Zelda herself(Counting all 4 of Tingle's own games). Deal wit' it.

Metroid series:
Samus/ZSS
Ridley

-Ridley is not too big. If Ridley is too big, Bowser is too big as of Mario 64. Ridley would be sized approximately to Metroid NES or Melee's intro.

Kid Icarus series:
Pit
Medusa

-New Kid Icarus Game + Made by Sakurai + Sakurai making SSB4 = More Kid Icarus. Palutena is not a significant enough character. But Medusa is the main villain. Palutena can stay in Pit's smash.

Toon Link Out! Vaati inside! Ganon with new moves (except Up Side and standard special moves) Tingle not now! Ridley is not too large, it is huge, let him still as the master! For the Metroid series would be better Adam Malkovich. I approve the entry of Medusa, would be a great choice!

Kirby series:
Kirby
Metaknight
King Dedede

-No change here. Maybe make Dedede not suck as much, maybe make Metaknight suck a little more. Make sure Kirby only has ONE move where he sucks: His powerless neutral B.(Bum-Bum Tsssshhh)

Pikmin series:
Olimar

Starfy series:
Starfy

-Popular series? Check. More games than Earthbound? Check.

StarFox series:
Fox
Falco
Wolf

-No change. I wouldn't say they really even deserve the 3, I think just Fox and Wolf would be better. But as long as all 3 get enough changes to differentiate them B-move wise, I think they're fine.

F-Zero series:
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

-This one I'm kinda iffy on, because F-Zero is a dead series that hasn't had a game since the GBA, but I think it deserves another character, especially if it gets another game.

Fluff Prince to join the team of dream land, and not to make clone of Kirby, he might aspire to the side special move, his side special move could be the whip, and his movements 'A' will be different, starfy not yet! Krystal would be the fourth slot if Starfox, and Dr. Stewart and Samurai Goroh the second and third respectively in F-Zero

Pokemon series:
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer(Same as Brawl)
Zoroark
Meowth or Deoxys

-Zoroark is basically Lucario for 5th Gen. I wouldn't be surprised if Victini, Genesect or Meloetta ended up here instead, but right now I still think Zoroark. I would be rather surprised, however, if Amoonguss got in. Because that would be silly.

-Meowth is a mascot of Pokemon, and I'm honestly surprised he was out for so long. He will most likely get in if Pokemon Yellow is remade. I'd even reckon that he'll get in unless...

-Deoxys gets in, which will be under the circumstances of a R/S remake being out or in the works by SSB4, which I find likely. Deoxys has several points for him: He represents several game mechanics, such as alternate forms, event pokemon, and legendaries. He would get in under conditions of a R/S remake, so he'd have a new game coming out.

-Lucario was cut, due to being pure flavor-of-the-month. He no longer has ANY significance.

Fire Emblem series:
Marth
Ike
Caeda

-Caeda is mostly placeholder for a new FE lord. But if one doesn't happen, I expect Caeda. She uses a lance(New weapon much?), she is female, and she's a main character of two recent games, and 4 games in the series overall.

Motherbound series:
Ness
Lucas

About Pokemon and Fire Emblem I agree, not only Deoxys! The Earthbound series Ninten with Paula could win as the fourth slot!

Retro series:
Ice Climbers
ROB
Mr. Game & Watch
Muddy Mole
Laughing Dog

-Muddy Mole represents puzzle games, the Game Boy, and hey look, it's a Miyamoto brainchild.

-Laughing Dog may seem like an odd choice, but hear me out. Duck Hunt was a launch game, not only that but a bundle with the NES. For many gamers of the era, Duck Hunt/Super Mario Bros was their first game ever. He has plenty of potential for moves; consider the Zapper, flying with Ducks, Clay Pidgeons, or heck, he's a dog, right? He has claws and teeth, and clearly knows how to use 'em.

Animal Crossing series:
Villager

-Yes, I know many of you would choose Tom Nook. But the Villager has arguably more potential, as he, y'know, does stuff. He is also, what's this, THE MAIN CHARACTER. And no, Nook is not the 'antagonist'. He is the shop clerk. He doesn't do squat. Plus, I've already got one, maybe two money-centric newcomers, Tingle and Meowth.

Golden Sun series:
Isaac

-So nobody thinks he shouldn't be in, right? What's that, you in the back? You think Matthew instead? I think nope. Isaac has seniority, and is more important to the series overall.

Third Party Series:
Sonic
Snake
Megaman

-Megaman is a major game franchise, from a massive company, with close ties to nintendo.

That's 16 new characters, and 1 removed, making a total of 50, or 55 with transformations. What d'ya guys think?
I'll answer any questions. Also, I've got a big ol' copypasta about Tingle. Like how he's in more games than Ganon, and is popular in japan and whatnot.

Muddy Mole and not Laughing Dog no. How retro would be better Bonk and Joe & Mac, I don't know right about the Animal Crossing series, then I will not comment on anything, it would be better for Matthew gonden sun, and megaman would be great!

 

[Big-Cat]

I personally would rather not listen to other people screaming/yelling/complaining/etc while playing. I wouldn't mind talking with friends or whatever, but that's what Skype's for.

I don't know about you, but after a while, I found myself liking it after playing SFIV. Mostly because I know if you get people mad from playing you, you're doing something right.

 

[Alphalink]

I was looking for this thread. This forum seriously needs a search feature. Just wanted to share this cause its been circling around.

Looks nicely made, yet my take is its fake. But makes me excited to see what Nintendo will bring to the table this E3 for 3DS or Project Cafe :D

 

[Big-Cat]

It seems like an odd choice for both a logo and subtitle, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Alphalink]

It seems like an odd choice for both a logo and subtitle, but we'll have to wait and see.

Yeah, but then Brawl wasnt the most obvious or welcomed name either then they showed it.
They do use different styles for each name logo, wouldnt surprise me if this was a more tech styled logo in contrast to the oriental brawl logo...

 

[Big-Cat]

Oriental? Brawl's logo doesn't look Asian at all, be it Middle Eastern, Indian, or East Asian.

Still, if this is true, maybe we really will get a revamp. Of course, that's just wishful thinking.

 

[Alphalink]

Oriental? Brawl's logo doesn't look Asian at all, be it Middle Eastern, Indian, or East Asian.

Still, if this is true, maybe we really will get a revamp. Of course, that's just wishful thinking.

By oriental I meant Far East, as in Asian, Japanese with the brush strokes and such.

 

[Big-Cat]

You've gotta be thinking of SFIV because that's the only fighter in the last couple of years to have that in any part of its game. Unless you consider check mark to be calligraphy, the English Brawl logo doesn't look Japanese at all to me.

 

[Alphalink]

Yeah i was talking mainly about the Brawl Logo, not the game itself, the Brawl part looks very oriental and rustic even the Font for brawl looks like calligraphy.

The Strife logo seems to go on the opposite direction, kinda futuristic and spacey

 

[MisterAdventure]

I think specific Team entry's and Final Smashes would be neat

 

[Big-Cat]

Wouldn't the opposite be a Western look?

 

[User33]

http://www.nintendo-master.com/xtnews/news-26991_rumeur_un_nouveau_ssb_presente_a_le3_2011_.htm

I know its just a rumor from an obscure French site, but I thought I'd post it just in case anybody wants to read it.

On another note, people actually think Vaati will be in? Won't happen in a million years.