[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[majora_787]

Just to be clear, I'm talking from a gameplay perspective. I don't know about you, but the kills I got in Brawl just didn't seem as rewarding as they were in Melee. Melee, even if you didn't have L-Canceling, was a faster game in general and was just more exciting.

Honestly? The only reason I don't play both is because whenever I go back to Melee, it may be fast, but it feels clunky. That's why I mentioned "fluid controls". I think both games had their points, but Brawl still feels like a better play to me. Admittedly, like what I said about the unlocking? It isn't the kills that I don't find rewarding; it's unlocking ANYTHING practically.

One more thing I hope they bring back. Character-unique target tests. Yes.

 

[ryuu seika]

I don't find any part of Brawl feels as rewarding as the equivalent bits in Melee or even 64. There was always the need to work for your kills in Melee while in Brawl they just seem to happen from time to time. I'm not quite sure why it feels like that because I'm playing the same character in the same way in all three games but 64 feels more comic, Melee feels more skill intensive and Brawl just feels soulless and dull.

 

[Strongside]

With all of the Project Cafe talk floating around now, my RL friends and I have assembled our Panel of Nerdom and have been discussing the possibility of a new Smash. We came up with a list of characters that we thought realistically might make it into the game (versus all of the other completely unrealistic lists on the internet).

Keep in mind that these are what we all saw as realistic (we're thinking from a designer's standpoint, not a fan's standpoint), not what I personally want. We factored in popularity, ease to create moves, and the characters role in said series while deciding all of this. You ain't gonna see no "Common Enemy!" or "Female/Villain for the sake of having a Female/Villain!" or "Blank because he's AWESOME!" on this list. Also, the number of fighters is pushing the absolute MAX of what we think will be in the game. We cannot see more than what we have here in the retail release of the game.

Side note, we thought that characters like Dr. Mario (etc.) would more likely be Alternate Costumes than actual characters, seeing as how Wario and Biker Wario are not separate characters. I'm thinking that some aesthetics of attacks while in these costumes might change, like the Pill instead of Fireball for Dr. Mario, but not actual damage or anything else. (Note: These would be different than clones, who have their own stats and variations from the original characters)

I will give my own input after each section:


Super Mario series + spinoffs (7)
Mario (Dr. Mario, Paper Mario alt)
Luigi
Bowser
Princess Peach (Daisy, Rosalina alt)
Bowser Jr.
Yoshi
Wario (Biker Wario alt)

(Personal Input: Toad and Geno arn't happening, period, and we all don't think Waluigi's getting in until he has his own game.
I want Paper Mario as his own character, but that's probably not as likely as an alternate costume, despite all the original moves he could have.)


Legend of Zelda series (5)
Link
Zelda/Shiek
Gannondorf
Toon Link (or whatever equivalent will be made between now and then)

(Several characters they could choose from for this series, but they most likely won't bother. Brawl's selection was well rounded and represented the series as a whole.
We think they will make Gannon a "mixed clone" with the A-Moves of someone like Ike, and his current B-Moves.
Personally, I worry for Shiek, but perhaps I shouldn't seeing as how Ocarina is being remade.)


Metroid series (3)
Samus/Zero Suit (Dark Samus alt)
Ridley

(Dark Samus could easily be a clone, but that would require extra, unnecessary effort. I really want Weavel, but that isn't happening until he becomes a more major player in the series. One can dream, right?)


Donkey Kong series (3)
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong

(We all wanted K. Rool, but since he wasn't in the most recent DKC game, we don't think it's happening. He'll most likely be playable if/when theres a SSB5, a handheld spinoff, or if there's going to be DLC for 4.)


Kirby series (3)
Kirby (Yarn Kirby, Prince Fluff alt)
Metaknight
Dedede

(Short, simple, sweet. Not going to change)


Star Fox series (4)
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal

(Another no-brainer, in all of our minds. We think both Wolf and Falco will still be clones of Fox, with perhaps one or two original moves based on other weapons from the series. Obviously, Krystal will use her staff.)


Pokemon series (7)
Pikachu
Jiggilypuff
Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard)
Mewtwo
Lucario or Zoroark

(Mewtwo is a really enduring Pokemon on his own, and seems to have been the last (and most painful) cut from Brawl. We all think he will definitely be back.
Lucario or Zoroark... could go either way, really. Depends on whoever is most popular in the Japanese Market at the time of development.
Also, I really fudging hate Jiffilypuff. Always have, always will. I think Meowth is infinitely more deserving than her because of his place in the anime as the "Rocket Equivelant" of Ash's Pikachu. I still hold onto a faint glimmer of hope that Jiggs will be taken out and Meowth will be put in... But that's just me, apparently.)


Mother/Earthbound series (2)
Ness
Lucas

(No matter how much I want them too, they're not going to expand on this series. At all. It's really unfortunate... Hopefully, we will get some more Assist Trophies or something.)


Fire Emblem series (2)
Marth
Ike

(This series was difficult for us, because a lot of it's main characters could easily be clones or alternate costumes of eachother. So we're just leaving it at this for now.)


F-Zero series (2)
Captain Falcon (Blood Falcon alt)
Samurai Goroh

(Easily done. No hard choices here. If 4 uses DLC, Black Shadow would be quite likely also.)


Retro characters (2)
Ice Climbers
Takamaru

(Any Retro Newcomer would be useable. We chose Takamaru because of his recent cameo appearances in Samurai Warriors 3 and Captain Rainbow; its obvious to us that Nintendo is still aware that they own him.
Pit was Brawl's retro character, but he is no longer retro, so he is no longer in this category.)


WTF Characters (2)
Mr. Game and Watch
ROB

(We put nothing here because we couldn't possibly predict which WTF character they are going to choose, if any.
Also, I hate ROB. A lot. I don't consider him a game character, and time spent creating him could easily be forwarded to more deserving places. But, again, that's just me, apparently.)


Other Characters (5)
Pit [Kid Icarus series]
Olimar [Pikmin series] (Louie alt)
Isaac [Golden Sun series] (Matthew alt)
Little Mac [Punch Out!! series]
Elza [The Last Story]

(There are so many smaller Nintendo series, we couldn't possibly fit them all here. In the end, we chose Isaac because Golden Sun is a popular Nintendo RPG, Little Mac because he is tailor made for a fighting game, and Elza because the Last Story is doing phenomenally in Japan, and would do just as well here in the States, and across the PAL regions.
I wish we could add more here, but I just cannot realistically see more than these 5 in the retail release.)


--------------------
Third Party Characters (3)
Sonic [Sonic the Hedgehog series] (Shadow alt)
Snake [Metal Gear series] (Naked Snake, Old Snake alt)
Megaman [Megaman series] (Protoman alt)

(I'm still not convinced the current Third Parties are going to return, let alone bring more with them. But it's up in the air, so we left room for the most likely ones.)
-------------------



So there you have it. These are the 50 characters my Panel of Nerds and I see making it into the retail release of SSB4. Like I said earlier, 50 is REALLY pushing it, because that is a LOT of characters for any Fighting Game.



However, that still leaves the matter of DLC...

If the rumors are true, and Nintendo is seriously going after the Hardcore with Cafe, they will most definitely include a more robust online system than they did with the Wii. Seems an obvious step to that would be to support Downloadable Content for their games; Smash Bros seems to be the clear poster-child choice for them to do this.

Obviously, there could be more characters in DLC than what i have listed, or there could be absolutely no DLC whatsoever. But its not fun speculating about that stuff.

So here is a small list of characters we all think could be available after the game's retail release...


Downloadable Characters
Toon Zelda/Tetra [Legend of Zelda series]
Waluigi [Super Mario series]
K. Rool [Donkey Kong series]
Black Shadow [F-Zero series]
Shulk [Xenoblade]
Ray [Custom Robo series]
Saki [Sin and Punishment series] (Isa alt)
Starfy [The Legendary Starfy series]
Ende [Pandora's Tower]
New Characters [New Cafe Franchises]

Dash Bowman [Star Fox series]*

(All of these characters are ones that also fall into the categories we laid out, or atleast we predict that they will.
Yes, I know I cheated with the New Character thingy, but there's no way I could possibly know what's up Nintendo's sleeve )
*(Rumor has it that one of the major Cafe Games in development is Star Fox. If it is a continuation of what I believe to be the canon ending of Command (Ending 1), Dash may very well become the Main Villain of the series, now that Andross is (maybe) dead for good. But that is all speculation on my part).



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay! So, this is it. These are ALL the characters we see getting into the game, Retail and DLC. These arn't all characters we want, and a lot of characters some of us wanted didn't make it.

Hope you enjoyed this list. I eagerly await to see how accurate it is.

 

[majora_787]

I don't find any part of Brawl feels as rewarding as the equivalent bits in Melee or even 64. There was always the need to work for your kills in Melee while in Brawl they just seem to happen from time to time. I'm not quite sure why it feels like that because I'm playing the same character in the same way in all three games but 64 feels more comic, Melee feels more skill intensive and Brawl just feels soulless and dull.

I dunno why people feel like THAT. I mean in all seriousness, the only people I know who don't have fun with Brawl now were those people who button mashed in Melee and DIDN'T think. The people who strategized and perfected techniques, myself included, are the ones who actually enjoy it.

 

[ryuu seika]

I can't say I ever got into the mindgames side of things but I did spend a LOT of time perfecting my style of play. I was by no means a button basher but I will admit that I prefer action to thought in games. From what I understand, however, it is not solely the action enthusiasts of the Melee era who were disappointed by Brawl.

 

[DarkShadow20]

Donkey Kong series (3)
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong

(We all wanted K. Rool, but since he wasn't in the most recent DKC game, we don't think it's happening. He'll most likely be playable if/when theres a SSB5, a handheld spinoff, or if there's going to be DLC for 4.)

Dixie wasn't playable in DKCR either. K. Rool has even been in more of the main games than her. He was in DKC 1 and DK64, and she wasn't. We don't know however, if villains or females get added first since they are usually added together(Peach and Bowser, Zelda and Ganondorf). I would think villains are more important though. And Wolf was added before Krystal.

I could see both of them being added though. If Starfox gets four characters next game, DK should too since it is a more popular franchise and better selling.

 

[Kantrip]

Dixie wasn't playable in DKCR either. K. Rool has even been in more of the main games than her. He was in DKC 1 and DK64, and she wasn't. We don't know however, if villains or females get added first since they are usually added together(Peach and Bowser, Zelda and Ganondorf). I would think villains are more important though. And Wolf was added before Krystal.

I could see both of them being added though. If Starfox gets four characters next game, DK should too since it is a more popular franchise and better selling.

I agree. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Cranky Kong and the Animal Buddies have been in more games than Dixie as well. Especially Rambi, who showed up in all the Donkey Kong Countrys including DKCR as well as DK64.

 

[Norm]

I will say one thing if they do make a 4th smash I hope they don't reveal all the characters like they did with brawl. I can recall when it was all said and done on the official site there was only like 4 characters that they hadn't revealed I think it was Lucario, rob, toon link, and one more I can't remember now. This time I think they should keep it quite on what new characters are being added to it so it'll be more of a surprise for the fans when the game does come out. Because when the final roster was revealed I remember there being a lot of disappointment here on the boards. But I don't think there would have been any disappointment if most of the characters hadn't been reveal on the official site.

 

[Beninator]

I would very much like to see the returns of some older stages (Hyrule Castle from SSB, MKII and Great Bay from Melee, and Halberd from Brawl)

 

[ryuu seika]

I very much hope to see the return of Dreamland 64. I don't care about the rest.

 

[majora_787]

I think that if we get a good enough time lapse, we'll hear about the game next year or in 2013, and we SHOULD get it in 2013-2014. It'll have been 5-6 years since Brawl.

And I personally think 7 years is too long. Melee was really fun for me, but it could not hold my interest for 7 years. I had to start using the Action Replay after 4 or so, and I got sick of THAT after about 5 or 6 years.

And I don't think future smash games will support hax. It's getting more complicated if you want to mess with the inner workings of the game. So probably, 5 years is a good-sized hiatus before we start talking "sequel to smash".

And in all seriousness? It's been... what. Just 3 years I think? It'll have been 5 years in 2013, and it'll probably be about that time. =P

AND let me just say 2 things.

1. The time between when a smash game is announced, and when it comes out, is probably the most fun part, not counting the first 2 years playing. xD

2. I am NOT spoiling this for myself this time. I am 80% sure that when I spoiled everything for myself... on accident, but still... Brawl wasn't as awesome and exciting. SO I'll be playing SSB4 with only two facts known: 1. Mario will be playable. and 2. It's a game. =P

 

[ryuu seika]

surely there's "3. It will have atleast one other character"?

 

[majora_787]

surely there's "3. It will have atleast one other character"?

Come on now. =P That's obviously a given. I generally expect the 12 from Smash 64 to be on the roster every single game, and the veterans leftover from Melee to also stay on the roster.

ONLY! I look forward to what they do with Marth's voice. He does have a game in the US now, after all.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I hope they don't reveal everything, as well, but unfortunately it's really hard to not be spoiled nowadays. I mean, a lot of things were leaked about the game not from the official site (like Final Smashes), so if full characters were hidden, there would probably be a bigger effort to find out who they are.

Also, the chances of SSB4 making an appearance (not playable, just like an announcement or trailer or something) is highly likely for this year's E3.

Think about it: Brawl was announced in 2005, four years after Melee was released, and then was released three years after it was announced. Thus, it's not too unlikely to consider that SSB4 would be announced three years after Brawl releases, and then come out 2-3 years later in 2013 or 2014.

Still, all they need to do is making King K Rool and Ridley playable and I'll buy it.

 

[majora_787]

xD I wouldn't go that far, but they haven't even tried to make Ridley playable. They even admitted it'd be possible (but he'd be slow), and there are no better characters right now to put in. (If anyone mentions Higgs, so help me.)

And I think K. Rool would be a good add too. But, you know, I'm a Metroid fan way before I'm a DK fan.

And idc if it takes 3 years for them to finish it after they announce it. Once they announce it, the flood gates are open and the fun begins. =P

And, just checking: E3 is in like... 30 days, or so... right?

 

[vVv Rapture]

xD I wouldn't go that far, but they haven't even tried to make Ridley playable. They even admitted it'd be possible (but he'd be slow), and there are no better characters right now to put in. (If anyone mentions Higgs, so help me.)

And I think K. Rool would be a good add too. But, you know, I'm a Metroid fan way before I'm a DK fan.

And idc if it takes 3 years for them to finish it after they announce it. Once they announce it, the flood gates are open and the fun begins. =P

And, just checking: E3 is in like... 30 days, or so... right?

Ridley would probably end up being a better Charizard. It goes without saying that we are all aware that characters can be resized (and have been resized), not even mentioning that Ridley already has such a plethora of attacks at his disposal. Plus, he's actually really swift and agile, both on the ground and air. It's ironically unfortunate that he's so good in everything he does (except dieing to Samus) that he'd have to be toned down to be in a Smash game.

And yeah, E3 is actually a day less than a month away, starts June 7th. I may be going, I'm waiting for them to email me back about confirmation.

 

[majora_787]

But yeah... I hope they improve on a few things, and focus on the multiplayer content instead of the single player content. No more SSE, please... it was a cool experiment and all, but this is a living room multiplayer fighter. -_-

Just wait, we'll get like a 15 second clip of some characters animated into something awkward like last time. And they'll just go, "Well this is all we have done. Look forward to it in about 3-4 years." xD

 

[vVv Rapture]

But yeah... I hope they improve on a few things, and focus on the multiplayer content instead of the single player content. No more SSE, please... it was a cool experiment and all, but this is a living room multiplayer fighter. -_-

Just wait, we'll get like a 15 second clip of some characters animated into something awkward like last time. And they'll just go, "Well this is all we have done. Look forward to it in about 3-4 years." xD

Agreed, though I didn't mind the SSE to be honest. It was just really repetitive. I like the bonus things they put in Brawl, but yeah more multiplayer focus would be best, since that's what it is best at.

And I loved that trailer! You don't know how many times I watched through that thing. Making me nostalgic just thinking about it. Manly tears.

 

[Strongside]

Dixie wasn't playable in DKCR either. K. Rool has even been in more of the main games than her. He was in DKC 1 and DK64, and she wasn't. We don't know however, if villains or females get added first since they are usually added together(Peach and Bowser, Zelda and Ganondorf). I would think villains are more important though. And Wolf was added before Krystal.

I could see both of them being added though. If Starfox gets four characters next game, DK should too since it is a more popular franchise and better selling.

Keep in mind, we all want K. Rool, especially me.
But, we ultimately chose Dixie Kong because she was one of the Forbidden Seven. So the development team obviously already had a working idea for her, and just had to cut her for time constraints.
I also see your point with the Villains and Females being added together. If they want to go over 50 in retail release, K. Rool will most definitely be in.

Also, wasn't Wolf part of the Forbidden Seven equivalent in Melee? I always assumed thats why he got in before Krystal, because he was an easy clone and he was already almost in. I remember reading that somewhere on the interwebs several moons ago, so I could be mistaken.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to reply to the part of your post about Star Fox having more characters than DK:
Well, considering Mario only has 4 representatives in Brawl (not counting Yoshi and Wario, because they are their own games now), while Pokemon had 6 and Zelda has 5, I don't think better selling games mean larger amounts of representation. While Pokemon and Zelda arn't anywhere near selling badly, Mario has sold dozens of millions of copies for each of his games for like 25 years now.
I think the developers of Brawl are going for who makes a great, unique (haha clones), and fun character to play. Krystal just seems to innately have more possibilities because no one else in Smash uses a staff.

I agree. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Cranky Kong and the Animal Buddies have been in more games than Dixie as well. Especially Rambi, who showed up in all the Donkey Kong Countrys including DKCR as well as DK64.

Yeah, but who wants to play as Cranky Kong
Actually, that would be kind of awesome.

Also, I think the Animal Buddies should be items. Always have.... Kind of surprised they weren't in Brawl.
It would be like a variation of the Crate, but the Animal Buddies would be temporary power ups.

 

[majora_787]

Wolf was not. There wasn't really a "forbidden seven" in melee, just characters that were GOING to be in or were CONSIDERED, but didn't get put in. Like Lucas, Snake, Balloon Fighter, and Excite Biker (who totally would have worked after all. Just look at R.O.B.).

And yeah, the opening was awesome, but still. Unless that opening has Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo, or combinations of the 3, it'll be hard for it to be as epic as Brawl's.

 

[Sittch]

My main wants are:

For Bowser Jr. and Animal Crosser to be added as playable.
For Stage Builder to be deepened
For a Bowser's Castle stage to be added

 

[vVv Rapture]

Wolf was not. There wasn't really a "forbidden seven" in melee, just characters that were GOING to be in or were CONSIDERED, but didn't get put in. Like Lucas, Snake, Balloon Fighter, and Excite Biker (who totally would have worked after all. Just look at R.O.B.).

And yeah, the opening was awesome, but still. Unless that opening has Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo, or combinations of the 3, it'll be hard for it to be as epic as Brawl's.

Having all three of these characters playable would make the villian force in SSB4 that much more badass.

I mean, come on, having King Dedede and Wario be somewhat important in the SSE Army (well, at least Wario) is sort of pathetic. Ridley legit kills people for fun, where's he at? Yeah, he was a boss, but he'd be more epic by being playable.

 

[majora_787]

Having all three of these characters playable would make the villian force in SSB4 that much more badass.

I mean, come on, having King Dedede and Wario be somewhat important in the SSE Army (well, at least Wario) is sort of pathetic. Ridley legit kills people for fun, where's he at? Yeah, he was a boss, but he'd be more epic by being playable.

Yeah. People always miss the point; sure, he's a little less intimidating for being the size of Bowser if not a tiny bit bigger, but... He's RIDLEY! Manslayer, leader of the space pirates, and most persistent sentient antagonist in the entire series!

Mewtwo is pretty side-neutral, but still, he's the original embodiment of all that is badass in pokemon, and seems to heel-face turn better than anyone despite not having heels. Plus, he was a totally unique character. He shouldn't have been removed.

And K. Rool... He should just be in. He's a classic addition to the "evil force" that should be there alongside Ridley and Bowser, for the same reason.

EDIT: Dedede wasn't in the subspace army. Neither was Wario, really. Wario just did his own stuff with the SSA resources, and Dedede was against the army the whole time. So it was just Ganondorf and Bowser, when it comes to people actually being evil with the Subspace Army.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Wolf was not. There wasn't really a "forbidden seven" in melee, just characters that were GOING to be in or were CONSIDERED, but didn't get put in. Like Lucas, Snake, Balloon Fighter, and Excite Biker (who totally would have worked after all. Just look at R.O.B.).

And yeah, the opening was awesome, but still. Unless that opening has Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo, or combinations of the 3, it'll be hard for it to be as epic as Brawl's.

Excite bike?

Ahh, I really hope its not there first choice. I want mach rider. :D The fan made game "smash bro's crusade" put him in there game and made him cooler then captain falcon. :D If it excite bike's in too, i'd be cool with that though. As long as they make him awesome, like what they did with C-falcon.

 

[majora_787]

Excite bike?

Ahh, I really hope its not there first choice. I want mach rider. :D The fan made game "smash bro's crusade" put him in there game and made him cooler then captain falcon. :D If it excite bike's in too, i'd be cool with that though. As long as they make him awesome, like what they did with C-falcon.

Excite Biker was considered as one of 3 options for a classic character. It was sort of like this...

Balloon Fighter vs. Ice Climbers vs. Excite Biker

Balloon Fighter wouldn't work because the system with his balloons would be too complicated.

Excite Biker wouldn't work "because he can't jump and everything would need ramps."

We have R.O.B. now, so... Excite Biker would have worked.

EDIT: This is what I want in SSB4. I never saw the official art of this. xD

 

[augustoflores]

We have R.O.B. now, so... Excite Biker would have worked.

would you stop comparing ROB with the Excitebike! jeez.

in what universe did an Excitebike use Gyros? where do you see a compartment for "rockets" (

Spoiler

as in his flight ability where the developers just imagined ROB as a robot, and robots fly with rockets... i know ROB never had the ability to fly or shoot lazers; for god sakes, he only had Gyromite and Stack-Up... his design is what proved his potential

)?

my point is that you shouldn't compare ROB and Excitebike.

oh, and that ridley image is sweeet!

 

[Sunnysunny]

Yea, it seems alot easier to make a moveset around the concept of a robot rather then a dood on a bike.

I still say mach rider should be used over the excite bike guy. It just seems like he'd have more fighting capabilities since he has a blaster, a motorcycle that reassembles itself, heavily armored, and he survived a apocalyptic future.

His moveset would be easy to improvise imo.

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs11/PRE/i/2006/202/a/d/Mach_Rider__s_Smashing_Moves_by_AngstyGuy.jpg


Btw. Gonna be bugged if they pull the "Ridleys too big to be in brawl" thing again. wasn't bowser like, a giant in several of the games hes been in? Besides, we need more villians and feel the metroid series is under-represented.

 

[Big-Cat]

Master Chief?

 

[Sunnysunny]

No there totally different !

Like mach rider is a heavily armor'd dood with futurist lasers wi-...wait no.
He fights against aliens in the futu-....well crap.

Nintendo's old school master chief with a motorcycle basically. :V

 

[vVv Rapture]

Yeah. People always miss the point; sure, he's a little less intimidating for being the size of Bowser if not a tiny bit bigger, but... He's RIDLEY! Manslayer, leader of the space pirates, and most persistent sentient antagonist in the entire series!

I think Ridley is actually quite larger than Bowser, but I don't really know. Bowser has been scaled so many times its ridiculous, while Ridley has essentially always been much much bigger than Samus.

Mewtwo is pretty side-neutral, but still, he's the original embodiment of all that is badass in pokemon, and seems to heel-face turn better than anyone despite not having heels. Plus, he was a totally unique character. He shouldn't have been removed.

Yeah he shouldn't have, and if they brought him back it would be amazing. I don't know where his alliances would be found, since technically he is evil, but if we go by the movie, he was good by the end. He seemed sorta evil in Melee.

And K. Rool... He should just be in. He's a classic addition to the "evil force" that should be there alongside Ridley and Bowser, for the same reason.

Agreed.

EDIT: Dedede wasn't in the subspace army. Neither was Wario, really. Wario just did his own stuff with the SSA resources, and Dedede was against the army the whole time. So it was just Ganondorf and Bowser, when it comes to people actually being evil with the Subspace Army.

Yeah, Dedede was sorta an anti-hero. But Wario was clearly a bad guy and not sided with the good guys, so he was at least someone allied with the SSA. I think he sort of fell in rank with Bowser towards the beginning, to be honest.

 

[MonkUnit]

SSA ?

Oh. Sub Space Army.

 

[mystery_dungeon]

I think Ridley is actually quite larger than Bowser, but I don't really know. Bowser has been scaled so many times its ridiculous, while Ridley has essentially always been much much bigger than Samus.

Bowser's size is actually not too bad as far as platformers go. It's the spinoffs that make him inconsistant.

Agreed.

K. Rool: "I hope for your sake, you're right this time."

Yeah, Dedede was sorta an anti-hero. But Wario was clearly a bad guy and not sided with the good guys, so he was at least someone allied with the SSA. I think he sort of fell in rank with Bowser towards the beginning, to be honest.

Ancient Minister: Here Wario, take this Dark Cannon and destory everyone in this world of ours.
Wario: *picks nose* Nah, don't want too.
Ancient Minister: Everyone the Dark Cannon hits turns into a trophy. Any trophies you get, I'll let you keep.
Wario: DEAL!

 

[majora_787]

You guys totally missed the point of what I was saying with the Excitebiker thing. x_x Thanks for flaming it anyway. What I meant was, they're both "wheeled" if you will. Excitebiker was given the Fail stamp because he had wheels, back in Melee. Then Brawl came out and we got R.O.B., a "wheeled" character. But it's probably too late now, and those guys won't be under consideration again. =P

And with the Bowser thing, it really depends. When it comes to games, Ridley started out as being a little bigger than Samus, and has gotten bigger until Meta Ridley, where he was made pretty big, but really low-built.

Then Other M came out, and we got a really humanoid Ridley that could be scaled down so easily it's sad. Maybe a little bit bigger than Bowser or something, but still. That Ridley is intimidating as all hell, regardless xD

Check this out: http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp43/Majora_787/Ridley.jpg

It's sort of a visual guide. =P

 

[vVv Rapture]

MP2 Ridley would have been epic.

Honestly, Meta Ridley seems like the best fit for a model considering:

1) He's already been in Smash as a boss (both Ridley and Meta)
2) His size is compensated by how much he actually hunches down
3) His "movepool" is the most developed, both ground and air, in Metroid Prime
4) Relatively, he's not that much bigger than Samus in MP1

 

[majora_787]

MP2 Ridley would have been epic.

Honestly, Meta Ridley seems like the best fit for a model considering:

1) He's already been in Smash as a boss (both Ridley and Meta)
2) His size is compensated by how much he actually hunches down
3) His "movepool" is the most developed, both ground and air, in Metroid Prime
4) Relatively, he's not that much bigger than Samus in MP1

Technically, he's been in every smash bros. game. He was a cameo in two of them, a trophy in two of them, and two bosses in one of them.

Ridley can be resized. They can mix and match what they have to to make a humanoid Ridley or a hunched Ridley. Either way.

And a Final Smash? Other M gave him a pretty good one. xD

Besides. Looking at the biggest series that aren't mario spin-offs (including Donkey Kong. Sorry, but technically...) Ridley is the best choice for Metroid. And again, I totally would not mind losing Zamus for Ridley, but I also hope they never remove unique characters.

EDIT: As far as Meta Ridley in particular, I think they should make Ridley have Meta Ridley's posture and Other M Ridley's design. They can totally mix and match with designs and movesets. The only issue is, if it is Meta Ridley, no meta Ridley missiles. If it isn't, then they still have tons of options. xD

THEN AGAIN. If they used Meta Ridley in Brawl as a boss separate from regular Ridley, then... it's possible they go for Meta Ridley, no matter how old he is.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Technically, he's been in every smash bros. game. He was a cameo in two of them, a trophy in two of them, and two bosses in one of them.

Ridley can be resized. They can mix and match what they have to to make a humanoid Ridley or a hunched Ridley. Either way.

And a Final Smash? Other M gave him a pretty good one. xD

Besides. Looking at the biggest series that aren't mario spin-offs (including Donkey Kong. Sorry, but technically...) Ridley is the best choice for Metroid. And again, I totally would not mind losing Zamus for Ridley, but I also hope they never remove unique characters.

EDIT: As far as Meta Ridley in particular, I think they should make Ridley have Meta Ridley's posture and Other M Ridley's design. They can totally mix and match with designs and movesets. The only issue is, if it is Meta Ridley, no meta Ridley missiles. If it isn't, then they still have tons of options. xD

THEN AGAIN. If they used Meta Ridley in Brawl as a boss separate from regular Ridley, then... it's possible they go for Meta Ridley, no matter how old he is.

Meta Ridley is definitely a good choice because of the moves he has, but it depends on what kind of character they would want to build. Either way, Ridley or any of his incarnations are good choices, just as long as they do it right. He's an amazing choice for both a Metroid representative and a character in general.

Though I'm not a huge fan of his Other M appearance at all. His head is all weird...he's not as unRidleylike as the original form of him (with that weird head he had that looks nothing like he does now), but he's still weird looking. Even Neo-Ridley fit the bill for the game he was in, same with Omega Ridley.

 

[majora_787]

I admit, his head looks a LITTLE weird, but I thought his head as Omega Ridley was really awkward.

I honestly think his frame as "Roid Ridley" works nicely enough.

But yes. Meta Ridley would be a very fun choice. =P

EDIT: I think it's because Roid Ridley is the newest purple Ridley, and I usually associate "Purple Ridley" with a true Ridley. Except for Meta Ridley, because he's like 95% robot. (The 5% that isn't is, in fact, purple.)

Despire being blue, 1986 Ridley was purple. 1994 Ridley was also purple. I think only 4 ridleys have ever been not purple, which is a little less than half.

 

[Shorts]

Anyone who has seen the Melee intro can vouch for Ridley being a FINE SIZE. Did you look over that one Sakurai?

 

[majora_787]

Anyone who has seen the Melee intro can vouch for Ridley being a FINE SIZE. Did you look over that one Sakurai?

Honestly, I don't even care that they removed the tail for that. It looked pretty good to me. xD

 

[vVv Rapture]

I admit, his head looks a LITTLE weird, but I thought his head as Omega Ridley was really awkward.

I honestly think his frame as "Roid Ridley" works nicely enough.

But yes. Meta Ridley would be a very fun choice. =P

EDIT: I think it's because Roid Ridley is the newest purple Ridley, and I usually associate "Purple Ridley" with a true Ridley. Except for Meta Ridley, because he's like 95% robot. (The 5% that isn't is, in fact, purple.)

Despire being blue, 1986 Ridley was purple. 1994 Ridley was also purple. I think only 4 ridleys have ever been not purple, which is a little less than half.

Yeah but Omega Ridley's body sorta worked for the fact that he was snorting Phazon because of it. Why Ridley looks the way he does in Other M was never described and never accounted for.

And yeah, he was in the Melee intro and perfectly scaled. Sakurai is such a troll.