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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Moogi

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I certainly wasn't expecting all his moves to look the same. I didn't expect his up B to be an item. I didn't expect him to have two instances of spin dash and I kind of hoped for something unique like the sword from black knight for some moves.
But Black Knight was released one year after Brawl. >.>

I agree that Sonic could use a little more originality. Almost all his moves originated from his Arcade fighting game..... considering there's a crapload of Sonic games out there, I'm surprised.
 

NeoZ

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But Black Knight was released one year after Brawl. >.>

I agree that Sonic could use a little more originality. Almost all his moves originated from his Arcade fighting game..... considering there's a crapload of Sonic games out there, I'm surprised.
There's a Sonic arcade fighting game? What's it called? EDIT: never mind, I found it, it's Sonic the Fighters.

I kinda expected Sonic's moveset to be based on his moves on Sonic Battle, but he kinda got only the moves that exist in most of his games, i.e., spinning, running and jumping on springs.
 

augustoflores

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one thing i find difficult to counter for the inclusion of megaman or megaman x is that when he switches to another weapon, he changes color... this is bad because of the palette swap for separate megamans on free for all... one megaman chooses a color, then another chooses another color... they clearly have different colors... in comes pikachu, one kills pikachu and sometime later, the second kills pikachu, now both have the ability to turn into the palette of yellow and orange.

so how is pikachu supposed to differentiate between the separate megamen? will the two megamen have the same team palette swap of normal and lighter (and darker)? is it possible for one of the palette swaps to be in the color of one of the weapon select colors?

one thing i had in mind was for Megaman X to have Icarus Armor for red team, Standard Armor for blue team, err... and a made up armor for green team... my ideas for the armors should have no stat changes, just a-la Wario.

either that, or use Megaman Zero as his series was exclusive to Nintendo consoles.... i wanna be able to use the shadow armor.
 

NeoZ

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If any incarnation of Megaman was included he would probably just change colors during the attack he's copying, or just wouldn't change at all, like in MvC.

either that, or use Megaman Zero as his series was exclusive to Nintendo consoles.... i wanna be able to use the shadow armor.
There is no character actually called Megaman Zero, it's just Zero, in another body, with a different look.
The weird thing is that when they show his original body in the Zero series, it looks just like the new one.
 

Big-Cat

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Sakurai wants Smash to stay away from other fighters.
He has never said that. He designed the original Smash as a fighting game with an easier entry gate than other fighters at the time which is a rather good intention as fighters were getting technical at the time.

I certainly wasn't expecting all his moves to look the same. I didn't expect his up B to be an item. I didn't expect him to have two instances of spin dash and I kind of hoped for something unique like the sword from black knight for some moves.
Sonic's moveset didn't seem to hve as much variety in it as any Nintendo character's.
Actually, Sonic's moveset might be a case of Fridge Brilliance on Sakurai's part. The two similar looking spin dashes may have been on purpose. By having similar looking moves, it makes it difficult for the opponent to see what Sonic is going to do. Basically, Sonic's two spinning attacks are mind game attacks. I admit, though, that the whole thing could've been handled better by leaving the spin dash mixups to Down B where from there you have certain options and limited inputs for a followup (similar to El Fuerte's command dash, Taokaka's dash, Vega's wall jumps, etc.).

Did you know that Sonic's placing on the tier list is hard to determine because of those two attacks? The mixup potential makes it difficult to determine the difficulty in matchups as well.
 

augustoflores

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oh hohoho, NeoZ! when i say Megaman Zero, I refer to Zero's new body (like in SvC: Chaos). If I wanted to say Megaman X's Zero, I would have either said the former or just Zero. My apologies if it wasn't clear to you but I am also the more knowledgeable in regards to all things megaman sans the starforce series on Smashboards. I know very well of what I say... I am still at odds as to which incarnation best suits representing Capcom as a whole:
Classic is the best as a mascot, X is a more suitable candidate in my opinion over classic for a very specific reason that I won't mention, Zero is obviously easy to get in but shouldn't due to over use in recent crossovers, Megaman Zero could get in but... really? over one of the megamen? anyways over zero, ZX series are just not popular enough (much love), Volnutt... i never liked him, however... i cannot deny his possibility as MegaMan Legends 3 is coming out for the Nintendo 3DS... im sure he can easily have a moveset based on TvC... i never played it but im sure there would (i can just feel it), It would just be weird playing as .EXE or Geo Stelar as they... well are they really what you are looking for in capcom's decision? wouldn't you rather have Ryu? anyways... yeah.
 

ryuu seika

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one thing i find difficult to counter for the inclusion of megaman or megaman x is that when he switches to another weapon, he changes color...
This came up before and is easily fixable by having only his cannon arm change colour.

He has never said that. He designed the original Smash as a fighting game with an easier entry gate than other fighters at the time which is a rather good intention as fighters were getting technical at the time.
Has it not been stated repeteadly that he doesn't want to use mechanics from other games? IIRC there's been a lot about him wanting to keep Smash different from other fighters, which certainly suggests that he might not want to use the same characters as them either.
 

Big-Cat

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Has it not been stated repeteadly that he doesn't want to use mechanics from other games? IIRC there's been a lot about him wanting to keep Smash different from other fighters, which certainly suggests that he might not want to use the same characters as them either.
The only thing I can recall is that he wanted it to have an easier entry barrier. I don't recall him saying that he doesn't want to use different mechanics from other games. If he were to do that, he pretty much couldn't use anything that's in Smash.

If you can show me that he wants the series to be as different possible, then give me the article where he says that.
 

UberMario

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Sakurai wants Smash to stay away from other fighters.
Which is why he has references to Joy Mech Fight, Punch Out, and Custom Robo in Brawl. >_>

And if he really wanted it to stay away from other fighters, why would he have added a stamina mode (which behaves like most fighters) and make moves that combo?

If Megaman gets in, and Sega/Konami get additional representation, then Ryu is highly likely, especially considering that SSFIV is getting released on the 3DS, and the majority of SFII incarnations are on the VC.
 

BSP

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Actually, Sonic's moveset might be a case of Fridge Brilliance on Sakurai's part. The two similar looking spin dashes may have been on purpose. By having similar looking moves, it makes it difficult for the opponent to see what Sonic is going to do. Basically, Sonic's two spinning attacks are mind game attacks. I admit, though, that the whole thing could've been handled better by leaving the spin dash mixups to Down B where from there you have certain options and limited inputs for a followup (similar to El Fuerte's command dash, Taokaka's dash, Vega's wall jumps, etc.).

Did you know that Sonic's placing on the tier list is hard to determine because of those two attacks? The mixup potential makes it difficult to determine the difficulty in matchups as well.
Just ONE fast smash attack would've been nice? Cough Sonic Battle Heavy Attack Cough
 

asia_catdog_blue

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Chun-Li isn't all that unreasonable actually. If there is one reason she's more worthy than Morrigan (in my eyes), she was the first female character in a fighting game. Still, that's not that much of a reason. To include her.
Post Srteet Fighter II, Yes.
In General? Yie Ar Kung Fu begs to differ.

And on the subject of guests:

90% of all sonic characters would make apalling Smash characters. Tails would either be broken via flight or be a lousy representation of the character. Especially as flight is the only combat trick Tails has going for him. Silver is annoying. My personal predudice wouldn't affect his inclusion but the scarecity of his appearance in sonic games likely would. Plus, he's rubbish in close combat. Eggman is shown in just about every game to be completely and utterly useless out of his machines and giving him his walker or UFO would be bad for the series. The only sonic characters I could see working are Shadow, Knuckles, Amy and possibly Cream. None of which I'd really want after the mess they made of sonic.
As for Street Fighter, consider how badly Snake fit into Brawl. Do we really want more realistically designed humans in the series? Fortunately, what with SF being fighting games, the cances of its inclusion are minimal.

Megaman, however, seems like a great idea. Especially if he retains his copying ability, though I doubt Sakurai would let a mere guest encrouch on Kirby's teritory.
Someone didn't play Sonic Battle for the Game Boy Advance.

EDIT: Oh, well, they could just give him two jumps, make them high jumps like Green L and Falco, and give him an Up B Special like Pit, R.O.B., ans Snake.


Also, the problem with MegaMan is that technically, he can only copy machinery. He was built with something called the"Variable Tool System" that allows him to copy household items for simple housework, before it was upgrade to the "Variable Weapon Systems." I doubt that aspect of him would work in SSB. And if he could, how would they show it? Maybe he could do it like the Ruby-Spears Animation.
 

ryuu seika

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Someone didn't play Sonic Battle for the Game Boy Advance.[/QUOTE]

I'll have you know I did.

EDIT: Oh, well, they could just give him two jumps, make them high jumps like Green L and Falco, and give him an Up B Special like Pit, R.O.B., ans Snake..
Eww. More flight specials?

Also, the problem with MegaMan is that technically, he can only copy machinery. He was built with something called the"Variable Tool System" that allows him to copy household items for simple housework, before it was upgrade to the "Variable Weapon Systems." I doubt that aspect of him would work in SSB.
 

augustoflores

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Someone didn't play Sonic Battle for the Game Boy Advance.

EDIT: Oh, well, they could just give him two jumps, make them high jumps like Green L and Falco, and give him an Up B Special like Pit, R.O.B., ans Snake.


Also, the problem with MegaMan is that technically, he can only copy machinery. He was built with something called the"Variable Tool System" that allows him to copy household items for simple housework, before it was upgrade to the "Variable Weapon Systems." I doubt that aspect of him would work in SSB. And if he could, how would they show it? Maybe he could do it like the Ruby-Spears Animation.
All of sonics moves should have come from Sonic Battle, U smash should have been that one back-flip upwards kick, D smash should have been a spinnaroony a~la sheik.

i think tail's second jump should be like rob's second jump, his Up B can just be that stupid spring of sonics... anyways, i abhor the idea of using guests in more than one game, they are guests for god sakes... look at soul calibur, link is in only one game, darth vader is in only one game if you didn't download him in xbox 360, and you cant have tails without sonic so no tails and no sonic and snake in the next game.

I knew about the weapons system, i considered its viability, i agree and i disagree at the same time. the thing is that i doubt that hal laboratory, or who ever makes the next game, will not bother to research its viability and do it anyway. i like the idea of ruby-spears power get, but that would make it even closer to Kirby's Suck ability.

I was thinking of something brand new (i am not sure if i had mentioned this before):
After you select Mega Man (or Megaman X or any other megaman) you get to choose on the select screen 3 characters for abilities, change your weapons using left and right taunt, the taunt could look similar to one of Samus' taunts. (YOU know the one!)
 

i8pie

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Post Srteet Fighter II, Yes.
In General? Yie Ar Kung Fu begs to differ.
Never heard of it, not even the History of Fighting Games article I read a few years back. Or maybe I just can't remember. *shrugs* It's not like it matters or not whether she gets in game.
 

Shorts

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*pukes at all this Sonic talk*

Can I bring up asnother Blue buddy? I mean I do actually want to talk about this character with some form of seriousness. Geno, yes I know some hate him, overrated ect, but I think he would be an interesting addition. I have a few questions for you guys though.

A. How popular of a character was he when Brawl was being made?
B. Was he mentioned much on the brawl poll thingy they did in japan, or on the melee poll for that matter?

I prefer a well made Geno over this poor excuse of a Sonic.
 

DarkShadow20

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*pukes at all this Sonic talk*

Can I bring up asnother Blue buddy? I mean I do actually want to talk about this character with some form of seriousness. Geno, yes I know some hate him, overrated ect, but I think he would be an interesting addition. I have a few questions for you guys though.

A. How popular of a character was he when Brawl was being made?
B. Was he mentioned much on the brawl poll thingy they did in japan, or on the melee poll for that matter?

I prefer a well made Geno over this poor excuse of a Sonic.
I think Geno was a really popular choice during Brawl's development, and placed highly on the polls. I think the reason he didn't get in was either Square out right wouldn't let Nintendo use anything from Mario RPG, or they wanted too much money.
 

i8pie

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A. Geno got pretty popular when Brawl was still being made.
B. Don't really know much about polls, but maybe he was.

Really though, I'd prefer Sonic over Geno. Geno is alright and all, but he's been in only one game. Unless he's a Retro character, it's unlikely we'll see him unless he's featured in anymore games.
 

asia_catdog_blue

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I mean, sure we can't use all the specials from the GBA title. Would it be right is Speedy the Porcupine(heh... Scott Pigrim vs The World) plant bombs on the ground?

Actually, I really don't mind his physical attacks, but I think his specials should have been showcased like this.

Standard Special: Spin Dash(same piority as Jiggs' Roolout)
Upward Special: Sonic Wave/Storm
Upward Special: Homing Attack
Downward Special: Sonic Wind


I think Geno was a really popular choice during Brawl's development, and placed highly on the polls. I think the reason he didn't get in was either Square out right wouldn't let Nintendo use anything from Mario RPG, or they wanted too much money.
Eh, I still doubt that whoever creates the next title would bother with One-Shot Characters. The Ice Climbers might still stay because their the only unique gimmick around.
 

Shorts

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I agree that it is unlikely, however getting sonic was unlikely and look what we have. I think he definitely has a better shot at another game IF nintendo somehow gets all his rights. Otherwise Mallow, Boshi, and Geno are stuck in this Limbo. You remember how much fuss went into M&LSS minigame with him in it. And retro? He isn't THAT old. Geno is popular, the question is, do you think Nintendo knows that? Thats why I am curious about his poll status. oh and I too preferred Sonic at the height of Brawl's hype, but I regret what we got.

Another topic: Say that the first SSB got all the characters planned for it, how do you think Melee and Brawl would have looked roster wise? I think this could be an interesting discussion.

Ultimate Roster was:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
DK
Yoshi
Link
Fox
Kirby
DeDeDe
Pikachu
JigglyPuff
Meowth
Mewtwo
Ness
Captain Falcon
Pit
Samus

Edit: You guys should check out Smash Bros Flash 2 demo 0.7. It really is smooth. I think you would guys would enjoy the nice upgrades!
 

augustoflores

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sometime after December 25th, i drew out my smash 4 roster because i couldn't sleep, i guess i can share my mind some more here today:

AHEM!!

TOP ROW

-Mario /sub Dr. Mario
-Donkey Kong
-Samus /alt+sub Zero-Suit Samus
-Link /sub Midna with Wolf Link (not transformation... separate character)
-Little Mac
-Pikachu (okay, in the drawing i didn't write sub pichu but, ...) /sub Pichu (ACK! it burns!)
-Fox /sub Falco ... /sub wolf (i did that at the time to save roster slots, it was like that in the drawing)
-Kirby (originally, in my drowsiness, i put /sub Yarn Kirby... after some minutes later of constructive thinking, i erased it and put /sub Prince Fluff... then, i hated the idea and went with something later on that a majority of you main stays will most likely shun)
-Marth /sub Roy
-Mr. Game & Watch

2nd ROW

-Luigi
-Diddy Kong
-Captain Falcon
-Zelda /alt+sub Sheik
-Kanan (the last story character... the drawing doesn't say /sub the male main character... at the time i could only remember kanan's name... btw i want /sub the male main character)
-Zoroark /sub Lucario... sub Mewtwo (thats RIGHT! YOU READ IT CORRECT, SUB MEWTWO)
-Krystal
-Meta-knight
-Ike (okay, again, i was half asleep and right now i am having second thoughts but...) /sub Black Knight
-Geno (at the time i drew this, i hadn't been to smashboards in 3 months... just sayin')

3rd ROW

-Peach /sub Daisy (daisy is in the form of Mario Strikers Charged Football and cannot float like peach... that'd be weird without a dress)
-Yoshi
-Captain Olimar
-Ganondorf (originally, it said /sub Black Shadow but i have since removed its subness)
-Pit
-Jigglypuff (when i wrote down jigglypuff, it was written down grudgingly; i must've really not wanted her continuity)
-Lucas /sub Ness (yes, you read right, i have my reasons why lucas gets top billing)
-King DeDeDe
-New Fire Emblem Lord (yea... i got lazy and my knowledge on fire emblem is low... only games i played were the sacred stones and path of radiance)
-Mega Man (honestly, i really wanted to put Mega Man X... huff, girrrrrrrrr YES!!!) X

LAST ROW

-Bowser /sub Bowser Jr.
-Wario (i don't know why i wrote /sub Captain Syrup but it has since been erased)
-Saki Amamiya
-Vaati
-Palutena /sub Medusa
-Pokemon Trainer (okay, now here is where you guys hate me more) /Generation choose /Gen I /Gen II / Gen III / Gen IV / Gen V (now even more HATE) Generation Customization (this is something you get when you unlock every character in the game except for a few things that i will mention later. It will replace being able to choose from the 5 generations)
~~Bulbasaur, Ivysaur, Charmander, Charmeleon, Charizard, Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise (honestly... i think blastoise is too big... as you can see, i forbade venusaur), Chikorita, Bayleef, Meganium (i was conflicted when i allowed meganium into my roster), Cyndaquil, Quilava, Typhlosion, Totodile, Croconaw, Feraligatr, Treeko, Grovile, Sceptile, (no torchic, its weird that he has wings), Combusken, Blaziken, Mudkip, Marshtomp, Swampert, Turtwig, Grotle (honestly, im not sure if grotle works but there he is), Chimchar, Monferno, Infernape, Piplup, Prinplup, Empoleon, Snivy, (yeah... no more of his evolution line as they lack arms), Tepig, Chaoboo, Enbuoh, Oshawot, Futachimaru, Daikenki... thats it... okay, now you are forced to choose 1 Lv 5, 1 Lv 16, and 1 Lv 36.
-Ice Climbers
-Andy (from Advance Wars)
-Issac (when you select felix or matthew's palette swap, the announcer says their respected names)
-R.O.B.

Yes, there is DLC... the random button no longer takes up a slot, it is under the player's character screen. you don't need the dlc in order to unlock Gen Custom.

Mii is in the same section like the random buttons... none of the DLC you have to pay for, yay.
Mii is customizable for every single Mii in your arsenal, edit them just like Stage Builder... they can't be over powered because there is a limit to what you add to them... SIGH. that took a long time to write... (also, due to my bad internet, it was soo close to being gone forever so my quick thinking had it saved on Notepad. good thing too, the internet went away!)

/sub = when you choose a character on the character select screen, immediately, your player finger is directed to your player screen for you to choose between the characters within the slot.

/alt = ... well it's pretty much self explanatory, the character can transform into the said character... because ZSS and Sheik are /sub, the announcer gets to say their name when you choose them... yay.

okay, now. my choices for downloadable characters (btw, there is a button for downloadable characters... it is in the bottom of the roster and in between players 2 and 3... real snug like a bug):

DOWNLOADABLE CHARACTERS

-Young Link (isn't it weird having 4 incarnations of link in this game?)
-Toon Link (what? i love link (one is skyward, one is twilight[midna /w wolf link], one is majora, and one is toon))
-Captain Syrup (she is from wario land, she could use a dagger... i didn't play the game, it just seems like she could be viable candidate)
-Sylux
-Kumatora (she originally had a slot until i gave it away)
-Samurai Goroh
-Lip (i already have her moveset in mind)
-King K. Rool
-Prince Fluff (much to my own chagrin... i don't like epic yarn... sorry)
-Black Shadow (he gets brawl's Ganondorf's entire moveset and G-dork gets his magickal properties back... he is still heavy though... no sword... maybe)
-Fawful (i think he is just more liked than Waluigi)
and finally, much to the chagrin of Masahiro Sakurai:
-Ridley (resized to melee's fmv incarnation)

any lingering thoughts? hate mail? back talk? welcome backs? free Toise tokens? Flaming? Trolling? ******** comments? Queries? curious about my drawing?

anyways, who is the new fire emblem lord? or anyone who is viable for that empty slot? honestly... i want ephraim or eirika but nooo, sacred stones isn't cool enough. micaiah seems to be a popular choice on you tube though. for some strange reason, people really love Sothe, people want Lyn cause of her assist status; i think i saw hector this once on deviantart.
 

ChronoBound

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Square-Enix has made three games in recent years with Mario characters in them, none of them had Mallow or Geno in any form. These games include Itadaki Street DS, Mario Hoops 3-on-3, and Mario Sports Mix. Heck, some of these games even included music and locations from Super Mario RPG which shows that Square did not forget they developed the game.

Geno was basically a fad. Before Geno became popular on various Smash forums, it was Fawful who was the popular Mario RPG character choice.

On a sidenote, Sakurai will be presenting Kid Icarus: Uprising in Japan next week.

The only big titles for the Wii that have been announced and not released yet are the The Last Story (which is going to be released later this month in Japan) and The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. So its basically Zelda that is the only Wii title that is basically on anybody's radar (aside from a possible localization of The Last Story). The Wii possibly being near the end of its life would be a good thing for people anticipating the next Smash Bros. since it is likely that when Nintendo decides to release their next home console that Sakurai will be called upon to start working on Smash 4.
 

i8pie

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Having just 'Sonic's in Brawl' is going to attract a lot of people. Geno however is only well known because of the Brawl Hype. Sonic did seem unlikely, but at least it made sense; Sonic vs. Mario has been here for a long time, even in that terrible Olympic Waggle Fest a few years back. Geno however is obscure and has only been in one game.

The only way Geno would have a chance now is if he got a new game. Otherwise he could be listed as a Retro Character, but even then he's not old enough, nor is he even owned by Nintendo. So really, the chances of Geno making it into Brawl has been slim (but popular).

On to another topic, the roster would have been very small if the Roster was planned from the start, though we still would have seen Metaknight (according to that recent interview that had a thread here but was closed down, he was supposed to be in Melee!)
 

ryuu seika

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Standard Special: Spin Dash(same piority as Jiggs' Roolout)
Upward Special: Sonic Wave/Storm
Upward Special: Homing Attack
Downward Special: Sonic Wind
Don't know wave/storm and either that or homing should be sideways. Sonic Wind and Spin Dash should be swapped as Spin Dash has always been down and A in sonic games.

Another topic: Say that the first SSB got all the characters planned for it, how do you think Melee and Brawl would have looked roster wise? I think this could be an interesting discussion.

Ultimate Roster was:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
DK
Yoshi
Link
Fox
Kirby
DeDeDe
Pikachu
JigglyPuff
Meowth
Mewtwo
Ness
Captain Falcon
Pit
Samus
Getting those in 64 would have meant them all returning in Melee, which would likely have a knockon effect.

Peach and Bowser not being new additions would likely have meant other mario characters and possibly even Diddy added to Melee. The addition of Dedede could have made kirby a major series in early Smash, meaning MetaKnight could have ended up in Melee, thus meaning other characters would have to be added in Brawl. Pit could possibly (but less likely) have brought in more representitives from his series and Mewtwo would likely have returned in Brawl, having been in two games at this point, perhaps even removing Lucario from the roster.
Meowth would likely have been a one off though unless he was really popular.
 

Big-Cat

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@Shortie
Peach, Meowth, and Pit were never explicitly said to be planned for 64. These are just widespread rumors. The originally planned roster included the original twelve along with Bowser, Mewtwo, and Dedede, IIRC.

I still think the best thing for Sonic would be if his Down Special/Side Special had followup attacks. I already mentioned El Fuerte and Taokaka's Dash (Fuerte's more of what I'm talking about), but something bettered suited to Smash would be something like Abel or Karin's rekkas. Basically, after you hit with Sonic the first time, your opponent is forced to guess whether to use DI or not. You then choose a specific follow up attack. If you guess right and he/she guesses wrong, you're free to mix it up with a combo, another follow up or whatever.

Basically, these would be pseudo-combos with the occasional mixup combos (ala Ibuki and Dudley).
 

i8pie

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I'm pretty sure Sonic was voted as the most wanted character, at least in Japan.
Unlikely, as in actually making it in-game. Just because a character is popular doesn't mean they'll get into Brawl. That said, Sonic did make it into Brawl, I'm not ignoring that fact.
 

Shorts

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Unlikely, as in actually making it in-game. Just because a character is popular doesn't mean they'll get into Brawl. That said, Sonic did make it into Brawl, I'm not ignoring that fact.
Well when Sakurai once before put out a poll for Melee and a certain transformation of Zelda got a high voting percentage we saw her in the game. So it IS safe to assume that the Smash Polls hold importance. I THINK Wolf made it high in the polls, has anyone ever found these polls? Or translaed them? They could be VERY interesting. It's sad to know that Sakurai isn't well versed in Nintendo characters. He didn't even know who Krystal was. -.-

Oh and I know about the Sheik thing because either someone here, or at Nsider2 talked about voting for her, I didn't vote for her, I was too busy being like nine.
 

i8pie

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Well when Sakurai once before put out a poll for Melee and a certain transformation of Zelda got a high voting percentage we saw her in the game. So it IS safe to assume that the Smash Polls hold importance.
Zelda is not a third party character like Sonic. She's Nintendo so it's probably within his power. If everyone wants a certain Nintendo Character, he'll probably put them in. If it's someone like Sonic, however, he (probably) needs permission from Sega and other stuff like that first. I suppose you're right in saying Smash Polls are important though.
 

majora_787

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Not to start this argument, but...

Popularity certainly isn't everything... I mean, Ridley. You can't deny it, he is the evidence of "if they're popular they're in" being false.

And I'm also gonna say, this thread is just going to go in circles for another year before SSB4 is even announced to be starting production, isn't it? xD I mean, I come back here and you're talking about Sonic. Again. AGAIN.
 

Shorts

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And I'm also gonna say, this thread is just going to go in circles for another year before SSB4 is even announced to be starting production, isn't it? xD I mean, I come back here and you're talking about Sonic. Again. AGAIN.
What do you expect. You bringing up that we are going in circles isn't new. You know everything has been said at least once by someone, you shouldn't expect the rest to keep quiet until an update.
 

i8pie

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I never absolutely said, popularity = in Brawl.
It goes somewhere more like:
Nintendo + Popular = Very likely (unless there's a certain problem)
Not Nintendo + Popular = Maybe (depends on if they're allowed in the first place and whether it benefits Nintendo)

Ridley does have a size issue. It's not like upsizing Olimar because there are certain parts of Ridley that are really oversized to begin with (namely his head, though wings and limb length are a problem too).
 

SmashChu

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Another topic: Say that the first SSB got all the characters planned for it, how do you think Melee and Brawl would have looked roster wise? I think this could be an interesting discussion.

Ultimate Roster was:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
DK
Yoshi
Link
Fox
Kirby
DeDeDe
Pikachu
JigglyPuff
Meowth
Mewtwo
Ness
Captain Falcon
Pit
Samus
A lot of rumors got thrown around about the first game. As far as evidence we have, we only know that Bowser, Mewtwo and King Dedede were planned for the game, but likely no one else.
 

ChronoBound

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Having just 'Sonic's in Brawl' is going to attract a lot of people. Geno however is only well known because of the Brawl Hype. Sonic did seem unlikely, but at least it made sense; Sonic vs. Mario has been here for a long time, even in that terrible Olympic Waggle Fest a few years back. Geno however is obscure and has only been in one game.

The only way Geno would have a chance now is if he got a new game. Otherwise he could be listed as a Retro Character, but even then he's not old enough, nor is he even owned by Nintendo. So really, the chances of Geno making it into Brawl has been slim (but popular).

On to another topic, the roster would have been very small if the Roster was planned from the start, though we still would have seen Metaknight (according to that recent interview that had a thread here but was closed down, he was supposed to be in Melee!)
Geno's "popularity" has virtually vanished on Smash forums. He is less requested now than Bowser Jr., Toad, and Paper Mario. Geno was a fad. He only become a popularly requested character from 2006 to 2007. After Brawl's release, the Geno cult enjoyed a gradual collapse. Several other characters have also seen a collapse in popularity since Brawl's release (Krystal, Samurai Goroh, Micaiah, Midna, Ray of Custom Robo), while others have actually since some surprising growth (such as Black Shadow, Starfy, and Toad). Geno is both less popular and less important than Toad and Bowser Jr. Heck, Toad alone is among the popular video game characters in Japan.

As to characters that were planned for Melee, there are not any that I am aware of.


A lot of rumors got thrown around about the first game. As far as evidence we have, we only know that Bowser, Mewtwo and King Dedede were planned for the game, but likely no one else.
The other really annoying "rumor" is that Sigurd from Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu was Sakurai's favorite Fire Emblem character and that he was intended to be placed into Melee. It turned out that someone actually bothered to translate Sakurai's comments on Fire Emblem and his favorite character is actually a swordmaster named Nabarl from FE1/FE3.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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Well when Sakurai once before put out a poll for Melee and a certain transformation of Zelda got a high voting percentage we saw her in the game. So it IS safe to assume that the Smash Polls hold importance.
Ready for this?


1. Bowser ------------ 169
2. Peach -------------- 66
3. Wario -------------- 65
4. King Dedede -------- 46
5. Ganondorf ---------- 36
6. Mewtwo ------------- 35
6. James Bond --------- 35
8. Banjo & Kazooie ---- 33
9. Toad --------------- 27
10. Mew --------------- 24
11. Marth ------------- 21
12. Ash [PT] ---------- 18
12. Mr. Saturn -------- 18
12. Any FE Char. ------ 18
15. Gooey ------------- 17
16. Diddy Kong -------- 15
16. Sukapon ----------- 15
18. Any Pokemon ------- 12
19. Meta Knight ------- 11
19. Lugia ------------- 11
21. Kirby Animal Pals - 10
22. Koopa Troopa ------- 9
22. Lip ---------------- 9
22. Chocobo ------------ 9
25. Kamek -------------- 8
25. Meowth ------------- 8
25. Young Link --------- 8
25. Zelda -------------- 8
25. Sheik -------------- 8
25. Ogma --------------- 8
25. Prince Richard ----- 8


If you're gonna argue the importance of exclusive polls over some far more accurate means of deducing popularity, don't use someone like Sheik. I mean come on, look at those names. Technically she lost to Roy by a hefty margin.


As to characters that were planned for Melee, there are not any that I am aware of.
Sorta relevant to this, I think a lot of people get hung up on the distinction between "planned for" (dropped in development) and "considered for" (dropped in planning). That easily leads to some inaccuracies when word spreads about such and such.
 

Shorts

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If you're gonna argue the importance of exclusive polls over some far more accurate means of deducing popularity, don't use someone like Sheik. I mean come on, look at those names. Technically she lost to Roy by a hefty margin.
If you recall, I have already asked for this list in the past few days, plus the Sheik thing is the only example I knew of. So unless you're asking me to recite some unkown list then I suggest you take what I said for what it was intended to mean. The polls are Important. I don't need reprimand for knowling less then someone who has been around lots longer than me.
 

SmashChu

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Geno's "popularity" has virtually vanished on Smash forums. He is less requested now than Bowser Jr., Toad, and Paper Mario. Geno was a fad. He only become a popularly requested character from 2006 to 2007. After Brawl's release, the Geno cult enjoyed a gradual collapse. Several other characters have also seen a collapse in popularity since Brawl's release (Krystal, Samurai Goroh, Micaiah, Midna, Ray of Custom Robo), while others have actually since some surprising growth (such as Black Shadow, Starfy, and Toad). Geno is both less popular and less important than Toad and Bowser Jr. Heck, Toad alone is among the popular video game characters in Japan.

As to characters that were planned for Melee, there are not any that I am aware of.
Remember that not a lot of people are talking about the next Smash Brothers game. The reason certain characters, like Bowser Jr, are popular is because
not everyone is talking about it. The people who liked characters like Geno and Krystal have since moved on. Those who are left are asking for characters like Bowser Jr, who will later be drowned out by other character suggestions.

The other really annoying "rumor" is that Sigurd from Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu was Sakurai's favorite Fire Emblem character and that he was intended to be placed into Melee. It turned out that someone actually bothered to translate Sakurai's comments on Fire Emblem and his favorite character is actually a swordmaster named Nabarl from FE1/FE3.
Oh yeah, I remember that one.

BTW, since you mentioned it earlier, the only character we know for sure was cut from Melee was Sukapon as Sakurai said he tried but couldn't get him to work. He also mentioned he'd add Takamaru if he was in another game. I'll try to find the pages with it.
EDIT:http://fryguy64.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ssb&action=display&thread=2418

Ready for this?


1. Bowser ------------ 169
2. Peach -------------- 66
3. Wario -------------- 65
4. King Dedede -------- 46
5. Ganondorf ---------- 36
6. Mewtwo ------------- 35
6. James Bond --------- 35
8. Banjo & Kazooie ---- 33
9. Toad --------------- 27
10. Mew --------------- 24
11. Marth ------------- 21
12. Ash [PT] ---------- 18
12. Mr. Saturn -------- 18
12. Any FE Char. ------ 18
15. Gooey ------------- 17
16. Diddy Kong -------- 15
16. Sukapon ----------- 15
18. Any Pokemon ------- 12
19. Meta Knight ------- 11
19. Lugia ------------- 11
21. Kirby Animal Pals - 10
22. Koopa Troopa ------- 9
22. Lip ---------------- 9
22. Chocobo ------------ 9
25. Kamek -------------- 8
25. Meowth ------------- 8
25. Young Link --------- 8
25. Zelda -------------- 8
25. Sheik -------------- 8
25. Ogma --------------- 8
25. Prince Richard ----- 8


If you're gonna argue the importance of exclusive polls over some far more accurate means of deducing popularity, don't use someone like Sheik. I mean come on, look at those names. Technically she lost to Roy by a hefty margin.
Even so, most of the top characters did make it into Melee, if not Brawl. Also, The Legend of Zelda, at that time, wasn't very popular in Japan, so it's votes are going to be lower than other series.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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@Shorts: Reprimand? Oh come on, toughen up son.

I wasn't here for the last few days, but it seems like you only asked for Geno's position on the poll (him and Mallow had 5 votes each, so pretty low) and I think you asked for the Brawl poll, but that never went public.

But yeah, don't put too much stock into polls, even official ones. As far as I can tell, he mainly uses them for ideas and consensus truths (such as "everyone likes Bowser").



@edit for Chu: Of course most of the top characters made it in, you don't need a poll to tell you those guys are popular. And considering that Ganon had one more vote than the highest-rated Pokemon (Mewtwo, in 1999 no less), I doubt that you could just write this off as a "Zelda in Japan" thing. Hell, 007 tied Mewtwo. When has Bond ever been big there?
 
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