[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

Yeah, Smash is different from other fighters, and I want it that way, but different doesn't mean better. If being different is hurting the game, it wouldn't be a bad idea to look at other games for inspiration. Also, you can find a good number of Smash's mechanics in other games. I mentioned already that short hop exists in King of Fighters. And I've mentioned this before, but I visualize practically all of my ideas in a Melee environment. I can't do it with Brawl because I played that for nine months where as I played Melee a lot for at least five years.

@Shortie
But you have to be careful on how severe disadvantages can be. Link suffers, aside from slow attacks, from a really bad recovery. Balanced Brawl reduced the severity by letting him hookshot out of the last swing of Up B.

 

[BirthNote]

Hey, you know what would've been a great idea? If Brawl Wifi's Smash Service had a monthly feature that gave us a new music theme.

It would be similar to how we could download their favorite custom stages and snapshots, but the musical download would last a month. When the next month came, the newest track would replace the previous one. In that timeframe, most of us would be used to the theme that was downloaded, so the newest DLC would be a welcomed change.

Now, I had a bigger idea of this, like 3 added tracks for each monthly download (and not everyone of those downloaded catered to a specific stage), or select some tracks to be downloaded and remain for a month (i.e. take your pick), but since this is an idea for BRAWL's online features, I thought it best for the idea to be watered down.

Long story short: what if Brawl Wifi let you download some music to have on a stage for a month's time, and then replace the theme with a new one on a different stage for the next month?

EDIT: The music would be the tunes that couldn't make it to Brawl due to time constraints, but now that they would be given after SSBB's release there would actually be time to add the scrapped music.

 

[Big-Cat]

Why do that? If you have it released for a while, that's just gonna piss people off. Just release it as DLC, no time exclusive stuff.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

I think they should focus on making different lobby servers.

 

[FXK1337]

I definitely think that they should add more Sonic characters also. If they added Silver n there. . . . I think I just might need a change of clothes. He would be so amazing. With his psychokinetic powers and all. Yeah, that would be great

 

[BSP]

I would anticipate Tails, Knux, or Shadow before Silver, but yeah, more Sonic characters would be cool.

@KumOso-Sorry, I just jumped in. I didn't feel like checking ALL the pages in this gigantic thread.

 

[Big-Cat]

@BSP
I don't blame you. You'd probably lose your insanity about a hundred pages in anyway.

What is with people and Silver? What's his appeal. I don't understand the Sonic fanbase.

 

[Moogi]

@BSP
I don't blame you. You'd probably lose your insanity about a hundred pages in anyway.

What is with people and Silver? What's his appeal. I don't understand the Sonic fanbase.

I think it's best you don't understand at all. /knows more about Sonic than she should
As for my sanity... well, I'm pretty sure I've read the first thousand pages of this thread.

The idea of another Sonic character in Smash is iffy to me, but if in the case it happens, only Tails, maybe Knuckles, Amy or Shadow would ever make the cut in. Heck, over half the Sonic cast would make it in before Silver.

 

[FXK1337]

:/ odds are that is true haha. But im sure they would add shadow in next if any sonic character. Now if they got rid of Pokemon trainer / Lucario and added Zoroark, that would be cool IMO.

 

[BSP]

Although I think Tails deserves getting in if another Sonic member gets in, Shadow would be pretty epic.

 

[Big-Cat]

Knowing the Smash fanbase, and after seeing it with the Marvel hype, people would cry "Clone!" upon seeing that Shadow is playable. I think Tails would be a better choice along with Eggman/RRRRRRRRRRRRRobotnik if applicable.

 

[mystery_dungeon]

After playing Donkey Kong Country Returns, I would like the following songs to be in the next game: (mind you I've only just made it to world 8 so don't expect anything from there yet)

Music Madness
Probably my favorite version of Mine Cart Madness so far
Muncher Marathon
The Mole Train

What is with people and Silver? What's his appeal. I don't understand the Sonic fanbase.

To be fair, you could say the same for just about any Sonic character not named Sonic or Eggman. (and I like quite a few characters, including Silver)

That being said, Sonic should still be the only one playable. Save the others for a Sega crossover. (like Superstars Tennis and All-Stars Racing for example)

 

[i8pie]

That would be interesting; 'Super Smash Bros. Brawl: Mario vs. Sonic'. It could be like just an expansion of Brawl, with added characters for Sega. Just a random thought though. For me, I can't really justify the inclusion of any other Sonic character aside from Shadow or Eggman unless it was like that, simply because there are too many Sonic characters.

 

[swift9]

Knowing the Smash fanbase, and after seeing it with the Marvel hype, people would cry "Clone!" upon seeing that Shadow is playable. I think Tails would be a better choice along with Eggman/RRRRRRRRRRRRRobotnik if applicable.

There are other clones:
Fox-Falco-Wolf
Mario-Luigi
Ness-Lucas
Link-Toon Link
Captain Falcon-Ganondorf

Sonic is only speed. While shadow is Speed and chaos. So it will be a little different.
He has chaos spear, chaos nightmare, chaos blast, chaos control, air dash attack, teleportation, and the same abilities as Sonic. So he is not exactly a clone. So if they want to talk about clones. let them talk about the ones that I just typed down above.

 

[swift9]

That would be interesting; 'Super Smash Bros. Brawl: Mario vs. Sonic'. It could be like just an expansion of Brawl, with added characters for Sega. Just a random thought though. For me, I can't really justify the inclusion of any other Sonic character aside from Shadow or Eggman unless it was like that, simply because there are too many Sonic characters.

I love Sonic but if they are going to add a other character it should only be 2 or 1 more. I for got to tell you guys that tails is in SSBB but they did not finish his data. They did not finish Roy, and Plusle and Minun, data either. I am not 100% sure about it but when I first bought the game I was looking to see who all was playable on google. That's how I came across it.

 

[OnlyUseMeNades]

First, I loved the music in melee. Great stuff, especially Fire Emblem and Pokemon music.

I personally don't particularly like the Sonic characters, but I think one or two more for balance would be good. That being said, I support Shadow, but if he's gonna be a clone of Sonic with Chaos stuff on the same attacks, do we really need more clones? It'd be like Falcon and Ganondorf from Melee.

For the blocking idea, by stun from a block do you mean like guard break stun? I like the, idea adds some risk/reward, would you also be able to attack sooner than OoS?

 

[BSP]

There are other clones:
Fox-Falco-Wolf
Mario-Luigi
Ness-Lucas
Link-Toon Link
Captain Falcon-Ganondorf

Sonic is only speed. While shadow is Speed and chaos. So it will be a little different.
He has chaos spear, chaos nightmare, chaos blast, chaos control, air dash attack, teleportation, and the same abilities as Sonic. So he is not exactly a clone. So if they want to talk about clones. let them talk about the ones that I just typed down above.

I have to point out that most of the people you listed play really differently from their "clones". Even Mario and Luigi are different despite their movesets being similar.

I guess that's why I don't mind clones. Once you change some attacks' properties, and change movement qualities, it's hard for me to call them the same character.

 

[Big-Cat]

For the blocking idea, by stun from a block do you mean like guard break stun? I like the, idea adds some risk/reward, would you also be able to attack sooner than OoS?

Pretty much. You wouldn't go into a dizzy state though but you have enough time to get in.

Personally, I'd prefer if there was no recovery on dropping shields.

 

[swift9]

I have to point out that most of the people you listed play really differently from their "clones". Even Mario and Luigi are different despite their movesets being similar.

I guess that's why I don't mind clones. Once you change some attacks' properties, and change movement qualities, it's hard for me to call them the same character.

That is what I was talking about with Shadow. Sure he and Sonic has the same moves but he has his own moves to that Sonic does not. I dont mind the clones either causes its better for other people. Some people don't play SSBB if there favorite characters are not in there. Like me if Sonic was not in there I would not really be that much into SSBB. I would still played it but it would not be a game that I would have gotten into seriously. So clones are good.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Man, why is it always Sonic fans who ask for more characters, never any other 3rd party series? You people should be asking for cool guy characters like Proto Man or the Belmonts.


I remember someone suggesting 3rd parties use songs from other series on their respective stages, like a Street Fighter song on a Mega Man stage or Castlevania on Metal Gear.

That's code for "I wanna see music lists, pronto!"

 

[BirthNote]

Regarding Sonic's series, how 'bout we realize that its a Third Party franchise and move onto other likely-to-appear Guest Fighters?

I understand that this Shadow/Silver/Tails/Robotnik discussion is mainly a wishlist (cool choices though), but is it fair for Sonic to get another representative although he's not Nintendo's? Should Snake get a fighter from his games too?

They could introduce a new guest series to SSB, like Megaman's, Travis Touchdown's, Rayman's, Banjo and Kazooie's, Simon's and MANY more. They have a REMOTE chance at the very least to appear and average at the most, but that may not be realized if Smash's developers add more playable Sonic characters.

EDIT: looks like I'm a little late XD.

 

[swift9]

Man, why is it always Sonic fans who ask for more characters, never any other 3rd party series? You people should be asking for cool guy characters like Proto Man or the Belmonts.


I remember someone suggesting 3rd parties use songs from other series on their respective stages, like a Street Fighter song on a Mega Man stage or Castlevania on Metal Gear.

That's code for "I wanna see music lists, pronto!"

I am a Sonic fan. I want shadow and knuckles in it but I also want Mega man in it to.

 

[Big-Cat]

Man, why is it always Sonic fans who ask for more characters, never any other 3rd party series? You people should be asking for cool guy characters like Proto Man or the Belmonts.


I remember someone suggesting 3rd parties use songs from other series on their respective stages, like a Street Fighter song on a Mega Man stage or Castlevania on Metal Gear.

That's code for "I wanna see music lists, pronto!"

Well, since you mentioned Street Fighter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jgbOECFhEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOI2eqXL3ek&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXKlFplWCmA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie_R1H9L4eI - This could go on any stage, really.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luvR_j0f3Cw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPgCfmvWCkY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBhEbv576hQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzOckSK5f8U&feature=related

Others:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoaTNWnqiok&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_k1rPDRv6M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk3t180w8j8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGoz9-dJuLs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCMSDYC1-w8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNO8Edwgb0s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5PLEPD_tOc - This is pretty much perfect for a Megaman stage.

Outside of different third party series music on one stage (ie Capcom music on a Megaman stage), I'd love to see them do that also to inner properties.

 

[Flame Hyenard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie_R1H9L4eI - This could go on any stage, really.

Guile - Anything

I see you know the "Guile's theme goes with everything meme"

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I am a Sonic fan. I want shadow and knuckles in it but I also want Mega man in it to.

Well, yes, that's what I'm saying. Sonic fans ask for new Sonic characters all the time, but you rarely hear anyone ask for Mega Man and friends, Snake and friends, Ryu and friends, etc.

Wouldn't bother me if it weren't for the fact that Sonic characters are downright awful. I should just Ctrl+F replace every mention of a Sonic friend with... I don't know, Pharaoh Man or something. Pharaoh Man is awesome.


@Kuma: You mean like "SF song in Onett" or "F-Zero X Rainbow Road on some Mario/F-Zero stage" or what? If it's the former, cool. If it's the latter, also cool. If it's something else, elaborate.

 

[Big-Cat]

Pretty much different series music in different series stages. Kind of like having a bunch of the boss themes from different games, including those featuring playable characters, on Final Destination.

Oh, and if Totoro was a Nintendo property, I'd like this on a Pikmin stage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0OQ__H8Mzc&feature=related

You get Chun-Li too sometimes. I'd say she's more than worthy for being on the roster (considering that she's appeared on every Capcom VS title to date). She just has Ryu and Megaman ahead of her.

 

[swift9]

Well, yes, that's what I'm saying. Sonic fans ask for new Sonic characters all the time, but you rarely hear anyone ask for Mega Man and friends, Snake and friends, Ryu and friends, etc.

Wouldn't bother me if it weren't for the fact that Sonic characters are downright awful. I should just Ctrl+F replace every mention of a Sonic friend with... I don't know, Pharaoh Man or something. Pharaoh Man is awesome.


@Kuma: You mean like "SF song in Onett" or "F-Zero X Rainbow Road on some Mario/F-Zero stage" or what? If it's the former, cool. If it's the latter, also cool. If it's something else, elaborate.

You do know that Sonic has a lot of fans. But some of them do not like sonic, so I guess they are just trying to get the other characters in the game. For the past four years they have been putting only Sonic in games. So I guess they are trying to put them in SSB4. For a long time now Sega has been messing up Sonic games. Now they are taking out every character except for Sonic. How are sonic characters awful?

 

[Shorts]

When discussing 3rd parties there is so much to take into consideration. Like Sakurai's view on them, as well as nintendo's view itself. Take overrepresentation into play when suggesting *insert sonic character here* because it's just unlikely. However I see another Sonic character getting in before another Metal Gear, if that's any conslation.

The way I see it is that there are TWO polar-opposite roads that SSB could take when we talk about third parties.

Road one would be that Nintendo and Sakurai see that potentially more third parties could bring in more fans, which could bring in more customers for not only brawl but all the particapating franchises and blahblahblah. You see where I'm going? If this is true, what we should be discussing is which conpany/ies are nintendo's most likely targets. Or which company is most likely to reach out to nintendo. I would take both things into consideration. Suda51, Square Enix, and Capcom are most likely

Reasoning for the three companies/designers: SE, and nintendo are thought to be close... but who really knows? I mean so many rumors swirl around the net about these two companies. Capcom we know is more than willing to let Megaman Cross over. Lastly Suda hinted he would like to see that guy from No more heroe in SSB. You could easily assume any sane comapny would love to have there character in SSB4.

Road two would be Sakurai having some sort of bad taste in his mouth about Sonic coming in, maybe ruining his original idea plan for the roster, or something like that. Maybe he wants this to be about "Nintendo All-Stars" and not about "nintendo all stars....and friends". Who knows what his problem would be, but lets say he has a problem. In this scenario I could see both Sonic and Snake leaving. Which would be a blessing to some, and would be a message sent from Medusa herself.

Personally, Either roads is fine by me. I HATE the fact that we have two third parties, I either want One to two new thir parties, or take them all away. I dislike Sonic games, and haven't ever played a Metal Gear game, so having these two leaves a bitter flavor in my mouth. Maybe Cranberry Flavor?

Edit: I don't see Smash just Keeping Sonic and Snake. I don't see things just staying
the same in the next game.

You get Chun-Li too sometimes. I'd say she's more than worthy for being on the roster (considering that she's appeared on every Capcom VS title to date). She just has Ryu and Megaman ahead of her.

If this makes her a worthy character, then Morrigan is Equally worthy!

 

[spurtz]

My suggestion would be stacking of different characters in multiplayer mode. They have it in solo, but didn't include it in multiplayer.

Also it would be nice to make the max number of stacks based on points spent on characters or the value the character worth. Let's face it, it's impossible to balance the game, it might be more better if they allow people to select their favorite characters they wanted without being overpowered by other characters.

having 4 marios against 3 metaknight stacks sounds fair or 1 mario, 1 luigi, 1 ice climbers vs 1 metaknight, 1 jiggly puff, 1 marth. something like that.

 

[Starphoenix]

Since we were posting other series' music, I'll post my "Square Enix" mix. Outside of Kingdom Hearts I have played every game which has it's music posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFKoFzNfQdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCfa3AZ7tDM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN7mDuy0YdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CW6kLFyyi8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4wonq0nej8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVrfXJGdnc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEYwzoIBJJk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d5T6P_xKbg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hJbe7YXsLU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFsu6Pn05lc

 

[i8pie]

Chun-Li isn't all that unreasonable actually. If there is one reason she's more worthy than Morrigan (in my eyes), she was the first female character in a fighting game. Still, that's not that much of a reason. To include her.

@spurtz: You mean like a Team Battle sort of thing (not the kind that's already in the game)? That would be pretty nice to have.

Probably not the best idea balance wise, but what do people think of having stickers implemented into normal Brawl? It would give them much more function than they currently have. Plus, I personally think it would be awesome to have a super flinch resistant Ganondorf.

 

[BSP]

I guess stickers could be used in normal brawl. Maybe they could be used online and you could test your combinations vs. others'. That would be interesting.

 

[ryuu seika]

I've thought for ages that stickers (perhaps toned down a little) would add a nice customisation aspect into VS mode. A "team mode" that isn't cooperative versus could be fun too.

And on the subject of guests:
90% of all sonic characters would make apalling Smash characters. Tails would either be broken via flight or be a lousy representation of the character. Especially as flight is the only combat trick Tails has going for him. Silver is annoying. My personal predudice wouldn't affect his inclusion but the scarecity of his appearance in sonic games likely would. Plus, he's rubbish in close combat. Eggman is shown in just about every game to be completely and utterly useless out of his machines and giving him his walker or UFO would be bad for the series. The only sonic characters I could see working are Shadow, Knuckles, Amy and possibly Cream. None of which I'd really want after the mess they made of sonic.
As for Street Fighter, consider how badly Snake fit into Brawl. Do we really want more realistically designed humans in the series? Fortunately, what with SF being fighting games, the cances of its inclusion are minimal.
Megaman, however, seems like a great idea. Especially if he retains his copying ability, though I doubt Sakurai would let a mere guest encrouch on Kirby's teritory.

My vote is still for Lloyd but they missed their chance really by not having him in Brawl. The pre-DotNW hype would have greatly increased his fan appeal in Smash.

 

[Big-Cat]

As for Street Fighter, consider how badly Snake fit into Brawl. Do we really want more realistically designed humans in the series? Fortunately, what with SF being fighting games, the cances of its inclusion are minimal.
Megaman, however, seems like a great idea. Especially if he retains his copying ability, though I doubt Sakurai would let a mere guest encrouch on Kirby's teritory.

How does SF being a fighting game make its chances minimal? Besides, the SF characters are pretty much anime styled, that and there are several absurdities in the games that would fit just fine in Smash (electricity, burning kicks, Dhalsim in general, etc.). Snake is probably the farthest we'll see with realitic characters.

My guess is that, if the VS games are any indication, Megaman would have only a few "copied" attacks and those would originate from his games.

And what do you think they did wrong with Sonic? What were you expecting?

 

[DekuBoy]

Street Fighter realistic? Heh.

 

[BirthNote]

Megaman, however, seems like a great idea. Especially if he retains his copying ability, though I doubt Sakurai would let a mere guest encrouch on Kirby's teritory.

Maybe, but they could take Megaman's copying powers in a different direction than Kirby's, and that's because Megaman doesn't use every power he's taken the same way the original did. In some cases, he may not get his opponent's Standard Special move. He could get a differen't move of their's, like Samus's missile instead of that energy ball.

 

[DarkShadow20]

I think Megaman would only get his enemy's ability if he KO'd them, like in the actual Megaman games. This would make him different enough from Kirby in that regard.

 

[BirthNote]

About KO'ing a fighter before taking their power, I thought that everyone agreed on that and there would be no point in mentioning it in my last post.

 

[Shorts]

How does SF being a fighting game make its chances minimal? Besides, the SF characters are pretty much anime styled, that and there are several absurdities in the games that would fit just fine in Smash (electricity, burning kicks, Dhalsim in general, etc.). Snake is probably the farthest we'll see with realitic characters.

My guess is that, if the VS games are any indication, Megaman would have only a few "copied" attacks and those would originate from his games.

And what do you think they did wrong with Sonic? What were you expecting?

Well no Street fighter doesn't look very realistic when compared to some games, but compare it to Kirby, Legend Of Zelda, and Pokemon. I agree that they would look out-of-place. But they definitely would be a better fit Snake.

I like the Sonic characters, I think they are colorful, fun, and some have interesting backgrounds/powers ect. But they aren't for smash. One character per franchise seems like a plausible rule that Sakurai would follow.

Bomberman anyone? Hehe.

Edit: The KO thing sounds mighty messy if you ask me. He doesn't need to have a copy ability. Look at his moveset in Smash Flash, he uses abilities he copies in his games and that is good enough.

 

[ryuu seika]

How does SF being a fighting game make its chances minimal?

Sakurai wants Smash to stay away from other fighters.

And what do you think they did wrong with Sonic? What were you expecting?

I certainly wasn't expecting all his moves to look the same. I didn't expect his up B to be an item. I didn't expect him to have two instances of spin dash and I kind of hoped for something unique like the sword from black knight for some moves.
Sonic's moveset didn't seem to hve as much variety in it as any Nintendo character's.

About KO'ing a fighter before taking their power, I thought that everyone agreed on that and there would be no point in mentioning it in my last post.

Same. That's why I left it out.

Edit: The KO thing sounds mighty messy if you ask me. He doesn't need to have a copy ability. Look at his moveset in Smash Flash, he uses abilities he copies in his games and that is good enough.

And lose his down B just so he can change his arm cannon to something hardly any different anyway? SSF2 movesets aren't generally all that good IMO. I'd refer to Sonic as an example but that's his real moveset so...