[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

I'm more concerned about the gameplay than the characters.

 

[JOE!]

*looks at last page*

guys, theres a MYM thread right below here.....

also, why is a normal type Meowth using Feint Attack as a Final Smash?

 

[Thunder_slash]

*looks at last page*

guys, theres a MYM thread right below here.....

also, why is a normal type Meowth using Feint Attack as a Final Smash?

Actually, considering Pokemon Black/White, Meowth learns Faint Attack at lvl 22, making it completely correct as a possible final smash.

 

[SmashChu]

He is entirely capable of speaking for himself but what he is saying is the rules in place for tournaments create matches that do not appeal to the general consumer. Items bring an element of dynamic interaction that is lost during 1v1 matchups. In a moment a well placed bomb or shell can change the entire momentum of a match. Final Smashes being allowed can also balance out characters weakness' or poor matchups.

This problem is further exacerbated by Brawl's combo-less mechanics in place which make those matches far less entertaining than in Melee. That is what I infer he means by "dry".

Pretty much this. Note that I'm arguing two things on two different topics. I say that items should be used in competitive Smash, but also that items make the game more exciting for players.

I understand that point of view completely, and have no issues with it. In fact, three years ago, I would have been arguing the same thing. But I asked what was inherently wrong with the fact that there are no items being used in competitive play. The point you brought up and what SmashChu is saying is that that ruleset generally doesn't appeal consumers, which is true, and I even agree. But the competitive community isn't forcing it on anyone. The competitive community is a minority. And that's not to say that the rest of the Smashing populaton enjoys using items regularly; there are plenty that don't for the same reason that competitive players don't enjoy using them in tournaments. You can argue why items are cool, or fun, or are part of the game, or whatever, but you're not going to succeed in winning the argument and changing the way tournaments are played. There is a reason for it and it has been reiterated clearly many, many times, in this thread, and the hundreds that came before it. So there's no use in arguing about something that won't be changed with any amount of debate.

First, the bold is wrong. They DO in fact try to force it on everyone. The whole reason "Tiers are 4 queers" came about was because people were tired of being told to stop playing Roy and only play Fox.

Also, the only people I have seen that dislike items are competitive players. Never seen anyone else say they don't like them (and it's always tourney people who turn them off online).

 

[Enzo]

Panty and stocking should be in this game
and im not even trolling

 

[Lord Viper]

Panty and stocking should be in this game
and im not even trolling

Alone or together? Anyways Panty would be broken because she can distract everybody with her sex appeal, and shoot them. >.< ★

Stocking is just too cool so she'll be broken to. ★

 

[Big-Cat]

This thread just got awesome.

They'd also be broken because every time they attack, the game switches to a live action model of the opponent being blown up.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Also, the only people I have seen that dislike items are competitive players. Never seen anyone else say they don't like them (and it's always tourney people who turn them off online).

I know tons of people who rarely play Smash (or any video games) who prefer it with items off. It's nowhere nearly as clear cut as you imply it is.


Suddenly I got a flashback of watching a competitive match back in 2007, the first time I heard about people playing Smash competitively. Easily the dumbest "fight" of anything I'd ever seen up to that point, basically like watching two kids fight by doing that move where they cover their face with one arm the whole time. It's like when two guys in an FPS just camp in one spot on opposite ends of the map waiting for the other to show up. Holy ****, no wonder nobody gives a **** about this competitive stuff.

Oh yeah, I had a point in there somewhere. Something about items, but I don't care anymore because I've got shoveling to do.



@Incoming Frogmen: fix your link, son

 

[DarkShadow20]

This erupted into a massive thread about possible 3rd Party inclusions and then the poll went up and a ton of people voted. Voting on the first poll ended yesterday and the Top 8 were Megaman, Travis Touchdown, Geno, Banjo-Kazooie, Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Django and Bomberman.

If these are in order, how is Travis ahead of Geno, Banjo, and Bomberman? How are the rest even on there? And most of the choices for first party characters suck as well. Let's hope this has no impact on the roster for the next game.

 

[Bebopped]

I would just like to see a more depth to the options menu. Make it so you can turn things such as L-cancel, wavedashing, tripping, sweet-spot ledges, and other things like that on or off. Make it so you can increase/decrease hit lag and gravity. Maybe even consider giving us an option to change individual character's weight or knockback on individual moves?

this would let Sakurai or whoever would be in charge the ability to make a game for casual players, while still appealing to the competitive players.

Sorry if this has been said before, I just really didn't have the time to browse through 3,000+ pages of this forum to find it... especially since I'm at work and should be working... lol

 

[JOE!]

Actually, considering Pokemon Black/White, Meowth learns Faint Attack at lvl 22, making it completely correct as a possible final smash.

1) Faint attack is a physical move that involves the user "sneak-attacking" the foe. Not really final-smash worthy.

2) the way you put it there has him seemingly spray out waves of darkness, which is just so OOC for what should be obvious reasons.

3) Forretress learns Zap Cannon via Level Up, but would you expect him to use it if he were in smash bros, where the character is tryign to be represented, not the random stuff it can do?

 

[Rychu]

If these are in order, how is Travis ahead of Geno, Banjo, and Bomberman? How are the rest even on there? And most of the choices for first party characters suck as well. Let's hope this has no impact on the roster for the next game.

Its in order

 

[Pieman0920]

Wrabble babble, lots of people on /v/ were rallying around voting Travis last night. Probably doesn't fully reflect people's real choices...internet polls rarely do, since they can be tampered with so easily, or manipulated by mob mentality.

...Wait, are we all talking about the same thing here? I haven't been here in ages.

 

[Big-Cat]

Hey, since you're here Pieman...

I know you're all about music fitting in with the fighting. If you want a game chuck full of that, check out this:
It's a trap!

If SSB4 comes with a custom music feature, I'm putting this stuff in ASAP.

Here's another one if you're interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTSg4uxZGuA&playnext=1&list=PL6378A0F43D3BD341&index=24

I know tons of people who rarely play Smash (or any video games) who prefer it with items off. It's nowhere nearly as clear cut as you imply it is.


Suddenly I got a flashback of watching a competitive match back in 2007, the first time I heard about people playing Smash competitively. Easily the dumbest "fight" of anything I'd ever seen up to that point, basically like watching two kids fight by doing that move where they cover their face with one arm the whole time. It's like when two guys in an FPS just camp in one spot on opposite ends of the map waiting for the other to show up. Holy ****, no wonder nobody gives a **** about this competitive stuff.

Oh yeah, I had a point in there somewhere. Something about items, but I don't care anymore because I've got shoveling to do.



@Incoming Frogmen: fix your link, son

In some cases, you do have matches like that, and I admit, they're boring as hell. However, part of the reason why that's done is because of strategy. In the case of fighting games, both players could be trying to bait each other into attacking but it doesn't work for either. Some matchups just kind of lend to that because of the risk of trying to approach each other (ie. anything with Ganondorf) is very big .

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Oh, I know why it's done. They want to win, I can't blame them for playing cat and also cat. But I've seen a lot of competitive fans calling it exciting. And well, chess matches and the stock market can be exciting... if you're really really into it.


edit: how'd your Layton times go?

 

[Big-Cat]

Oh, Unwounded Future was fine. Really enjoyed the story. Haven't gotten around to playing the others yet. I still need to finish the rest of the puzzles.

Oh, and that game's puzzles are hard as hell, but rewarding.

Oh, and if want some competitive matches that are exciting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1c4rj1RnTI
It's BlazBlue, but are still entertaining to watch even at a surface level. Start a 4:10 or watch the whole thing.

 

[Pieman0920]

I'm well aware of Blazblue/Guilty Gear music. :V

I'm also well aware that most fighting games have soundtracks that are generally composed of music that suits the "fighting" mood. Smash is just different because it imports/remixes a lot of music that is originally intended for a different type of game.

 

[Starphoenix]

Your mistaken Kuma, if there is any fighting game tune that deserves to be in Smash 4 it is this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMc13A8LqaA

I'll dedicate this theme to every Jigglypuff player out there.

 

[Big-Cat]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I wonder if Marvel and Capcom picked him just to troll everyone. Oh, and speaking of trolling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D7R0ZGnw0g&feature=related

 

[Starphoenix]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I wonder if Marvel and Capcom picked him just to troll everyone. Oh, and speaking of trolling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D7R0ZGnw0g&feature=related

If you think Capcom would have evolved beyond the joys of trolling... You'd be wrong.

Anyways he is just one of those characters you love to hate. Despite everything he is a very unique character in terms of gameplay and appearance...

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Oh, Unwounded Future was fine. Really enjoyed the story. Haven't gotten around to playing the others yet. I still need to finish the rest of the puzzles.

Oh, and that game's puzzles are hard as hell, but rewarding.

Unwound Future is definitely the easiest of the three, so good luck with the other ones. Also check out wifi puzzles if you haven't.

Oh, and if want some competitive matches that are exciting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1c4rj1RnTI
It's BlazBlue, but are still entertaining to watch even at a surface level. Start a 4:10 or watch the whole thing.

15 minutes. That's one and a half episodes of Hey Arnold I just lost, I want them back.



You jerks better be happy holidays by the time I get back.

 

[ryuu seika]

Speaking of music, that has always been a major part of smash for me. The SSB series has the best music from all the games it takes from and manages to make them even better. And somehow they fit the stages too. Until Brawl that is.

There's still a lot of great music in Brawl and the game still has a theme that you'll hear once and never forget (seriously, I had melee in my head for atleast 6 years before buying the game) but it also has bad music (the pikmin themes are a bit lacking for example).
Melee simply had good music, great music and incredible music.

This is why I feel that more music is not inherently better for the series.

 

[Shorts]

Speaking of music, that has always been a major part of smash for me. The SSB series has the best music from all the games it takes from and manages to make them even better. And somehow they fit the stages too. Until Brawl that is.

There's still a lot of great music in Brawl and the game still has a theme that you'll hear once and never forget (seriously, I had melee in my head for atleast 6 years before buying the game) but it also has bad music (the pikmin themes are a bit lacking for example).
Melee simply had good music, great music and incredible music.

This is why I feel that more music is not inherently better for the series.

You LIKED Melee's music?! I found the majority of the songs repetitive and really annoying considering you never got a break from the single tune in some level's.

Brawl definitely stepped the music up to a whole new level. I love brawl's music choice. And really that is what it is, a CHOICE. If you don't like a song, just turn it down. Brawl's only mistake was leaving out,

Beware the Forest Mushrooms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcxMzWvG-jA


anddd either:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYAsafI5zWI

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73hjRu4sh_g&feature=related

for the next yoshi level

LASTLY, although this may be a bit in advance, I think we as a whole should try to find a good English-to-Japanese Converter. Because, if Sakurai Decides he will take fan letters/notes like he did with Brawl then we can give our two cents where they really count. I found one, but I am totally unconfident in my Japanese grammer knowledge. So when I reconverted the japanese translated paragraph back to english it looked like a big jumbled mess.

 

[Big-Cat]

That's not going to work. English and Japanese are very different languages going so far as to differ in sentence structure.

I got DKCR and Golden Sun today for my after Christmas shopping along with Totoro (too cute!) and Haruhi (that season where KyoAni trolled everyone). And to be somewhat related to the topic, what do you guys think of an old fashioned block? We have a second shield button so why not make it a regular block? I'll explain if anyone's curious as to what I'm talking about.

And another thing. I've been playing King of Fighters a bit as of late, and I'm enjoying it. I was surprised to see that it has both a regular and a short hop like in Smash and it has dodge rolls like Smash too. With that in mind, if you converted Smash to a traditional 2D fighter, it'd fall somewhere between King of Fighters and Guilty Gear/BlazBlue.

 

[i8pie]

You LIKED Melee's music?! I found the majority of the songs repetitive and really annoying considering you never got a break from the single tune in some level's.

I actually agree that Melee's music worked better, but for different reasons. Sorry but as fantastic as Brawl's music is, it really doesn't work in a fighting game. You really don't notice the music as much in Brawl as compared to Melee.

I personally think that because they just dumped a whole lot of songs from one series into a stage, things didn't really work well. At least, Melee's music suited each stage and so is more impacting than, say, listening to Wii Sports on Picto Chat.

 

[UberMario]

Yeah, Melee's music, in general, had a better atmosphere and the quality, on average, was better than Brawl's. However, at the same time, Brawl has around ten times as much music, and there are plenty of tracks (Stickerbush Symphony, Luigi Circuit, Meta-Knight's Revenge, etc.) which I think are more appealing than many of the Melee songs.

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah, there are some great tracks in Brawl like Stickerbrush Symphony, Easton Kingdom, Lip's Theme, Zelda Title Theme, and Starwolf's Theme (Assault). But, there's a good chunk of the music that feels like it was just thrown for fanservice. The MOTHER 3 Love Theme simply does not work for stage music. It's way to contrasting to the fighting going on. Likewise, Snowman doesn't work for its stage or even the Ice Climber stage.

Don't get me wrong, the songs are great, they're just not fitting. Those types of songs are more suited for credits themes (especially the MOTHER 3 theme) than anything else.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

LASTLY, although this may be a bit in advance, I think we as a whole should try to find a good English-to-Japanese Converter. Because, if Sakurai Decides he will take fan letters/notes like he did with Brawl then we can give our two cents where they really count. I found one, but I am totally unconfident in my Japanese grammer knowledge. So when I reconverted the japanese translated paragraph back to english it looked like a big jumbled mess.

You're gonna need a human for EN/JP translations. Can probably find a bunch on various gaming websites, but good luck getting them to translate X amount of letters to Santa.

Or you could drop a couple hundred dollars on Rosetta Stone, that works too.


Really surprised people had a problem with Brawl's soundtrack in some way aside from "should've had this song too." Also most of the remixes blow the crap out of anything Melee had.

 

[BirthNote]

I agree with Toise's post. Some themes like the ones that were mentioned didn't fit, but isn't that one of the reasons why you could choose which track you wanted to hear? With that feature I forgot that the music that I didn't like was even in the game.

 

[Big-Cat]

You have a point. I mean, as much as I don't think Ai no Uta is an appropriate song to fight with playing in the background, it's one of my favorite VGM songs and I was so happy to see it included in Brawl.

 

[ryuu seika]

You LIKED Melee's music?! I found the majority of the songs repetitive and really annoying considering you never got a break from the single tune in some level's.

I LOVED Melee's music.
Never getting a break was no problem for me.

If you don't like a song, just turn it down.

And turn the Pikmin stage off because you dislike ALL its songs?

And of course, there's the fact that they hadn't a single decent version of any Fzero music in Brawl. Sure, it had all the Fzero songs Melee had but they all seemed to be slowed down and bland compared to their Melee and GX versions.

anddd either:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYAsafI5zWI
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73hjRu4sh_g&feature=related
for the next yoshi level

Summit is a great choice but Yoshi's in the wind doesn't do it for me. Especially as it's near identical to the underwater theme which would definitely be out of place for any level that isn't totally aquatic (and who wants a stage like that?).

 

[BSP]

I agree with the fact that Brawl has less fitting music than Melee. Smashville has like...1 song that's actually fit for a fight. It's good music, but not good for a fight.

 

[Shorts]

All I'm saying is you always have the option to turn down music and really, you're complaining about something that isn't even bad. There is plenty more about brawl we could complain about.

Here are my picks for the next game when it comes to new music:

Pokemon Black and White- Kanto Champion Battle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gzyx5Vw5Kk

Pokemon Black and White- Gym Leader (Last Pokemon) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FPz7yklWrA&feature=related

Super Mario Galaxy 2 - Bowser Jr's Fort http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A7YM3rDZwM&feature=channel

Legend Of Zelda Ocarina of Time - Sheik's Theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yc7kp_ETGU

Professor Layton & The Curious Village- Professor Layton's Theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3ak_il8E8E

Pokemon Mystery Dungeon 2 - Primal Dialga Theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D8FkBgKOK8

Yoshi's Island DS - Sea Coast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu7SloNF8L0

Legend Of Zelda Skyward Sword http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dYgrMz_XBI

Kirby's Epic Yarn - Green Green's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrL2ZU0JaAw

 

[BSP]

Music isn't really a huge concern of mine. I'm more focused on character balance. It would be nice if Nintendo let their flagship character not suck again. He's just getting worse and worse now. And some characters get multiple jumps and Up B's, and some get bad middair jumps, and an even worse middair jump. Work on balance please.

 

[swift9]

I want :
Mega Man
Shadow ( with chaos spear and chaos control)
Knuckles

 

[BSP]

I want :
Mega Man
Shadow ( with chaos spear and chaos control)
Knuckles

I would like more Sonic characters too. But we'd probably get One at the most in the next SSB. I say Shadow.

 

[MKOwnage]

I would like more Sonic characters too. But we'd probably get One at the most in the next SSB. I say Shadow.

I think third parties should only have one character from their game.
I also think they should change it up every game. I for one do not want Sonic in the next game. Crash Bandicoot would be cool though. Old one though, his new design looked like poop.

 

[Big-Cat]

Music isn't really a huge concern of mine. I'm more focused on character balance. It would be nice if Nintendo let their flagship character not suck again. He's just getting worse and worse now. And some characters get multiple jumps and Up B's, and some get bad middair jumps, and an even worse middair jump. Work on balance please.

I'm with you on this. That reminds me. You know how people say that since all three games were made for casual play, they skimped on the balance? To me, that's a poor excuse. Casual or not, every multiplayer game should be as balanced as possible. Even casual players can figure out who's the best in the game if they play the game long enough.

Anyway, on that blocking thing I mentioned yesterday that no one responded to, here's what I'm thinking.

Normal block is done by pressing one of the shield buttons (whatever Shield's not assigned to). During this time, you can block standing or crouching. Like normal fighters, each has its pros and cons.

Down-block:
+Blocks mid and low attacks.
-Cannot block aerial (high) attacks.

Up-Block:
+Blocks mid and high attacks
-Cannot block low attacks.

Like the Shield, normal block cannot stop throws and command grabs. So why would you use normal block over shield and vice versa?

Shield:
+Receive no damage from attacks
+Can be raised up or lowered down
-Short lifespan
-If broken, user is a stunned state

Block:
+Much longer lifespan. There is a guard break system and the character glows a darker shade of red the longer he/she is sustaining pressure (Think Yoshi's shield).
+Stun state is very brief. Just enough for the opponent to start a combo with a quick attack.
-If attacked by specials while blocking, you sustain reduced damage commonly known as chip damage.

 

[Shorts]

I'm with you on this. That reminds me. You know how people say that since all three games were made for casual play, they skimped on the balance? To me, that's a poor excuse. Casual or not, every multiplayer game should be as balanced as possible. Even casual players can figure out who's the best in the game if they play the game long enough.

Of course they can. I have a huge famliy, and basically all my grade school - aged cousins know MetaKnight "is reaaaaaaalllllly cheap" and Jigglypuff "Just Sucks". The casual gamer exuse is lame.

I feel like if a character has a severe disadvantage that it should be made up in other areas. Which brawl kinda failed to do with some characters.

 

[BSP]

I think third parties should only have one character from their game.
I also think they should change it up every game. I for one do not want Sonic in the next game. Crash Bandicoot would be cool though. Old one though, his new design looked like poop.

I hope Sonic stays in. He was voted most wanted...I hope they don't just drop him.

As for the blocking system, idk if the developers would go for it. Smash is so different from the traditional fighters, and they may want to keep it that way.

The idea sounds cool, but it would depend on the physics IMO. It looks like it would've worked great with melee physics. With brawl, the shield is really good as it is now. Maybe too good...