[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

yeah mabye it would be implemented in training mode only. that would make the most sense to me.

 

[C.Olimar788]

Yeah, the colors thing would be a nifty feature for Training Mode.

Speaking of Training Mode, am I the only one who is bugged by its lack of full pausing? Like, to get screenshots and stuff? The next game should have that on the Training menu.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Tag-Team Final Smashes, you say? You guys are 81 pages behind the curve, it seems...

Okay, so first of all, you could deactivate this, just like you can Smash Balls. In fact, that's how you'd activate the Tag-Team Combos (and hence TT-FSs)--with Smash Balls.

But first, let's lay down some ground rules. There's a new game mode in VS. called "Tag-Team", in which you select three characters per person (it's still a 4-person game, at most). You can do teams, but that won't affect your potential Tag-Team Combos/Final Smashes. When you pick your characters, you assign each to either UP, LEFT and RIGHT, or DOWN on the D-pad, replacing your taunts with character switch.

So all you can do at first is switch characters. Switching to the character already in play just activates their "Tag Special", which is just one of their regular specials, but which special is used differs from character to character (Having Kirby use Inhale in a combo would be rather useless, after all). Switching to another character after a tag special just switches, it doesn't activate the Tag-Team Combo. For that, you need to have a Smash Ball.

Once you break open a Smash Ball, you can still just press B to use your character's FS, or you can use the Tag-Team Combo. Note that even if you don't finish the combo (if you just do Mario>Link, then stop, you just get Fireball>Boomerang, then nothing), you still use up your ability to use your Final Smash. If you do finish it, however, you get the full three part combo (Mario>Link>Meta-Knight = Fireball>Boomerang>Mach Tornado with no ending lag), which always features a "super" version of the last character used's Tag Special, in this case Meta-Knight does a full-powered Mach Tornado, but after it ends and he's in the air, he can immediately double-jump away.

Of course, if you were using Mario>Link>Luigi, you'd get Fireball>Boomerang>Cyclone Bros.

(Luigi pounds Mario down and jumps on his head. They both spin whacking the enemy time and time again with the hammer. This is Mario and Luigi's most powerful, non-elemental Bros. Attack from Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga)

...Which would also use up your Smash Charge. Note that no matter where Link is used in the example above, Cyclone Bros. is still used, as long as both Mario and Luigi's directions are tapped. The only way that would not happen is if you pressed Mario>Luigi>Link--to get a Tag-Team Final Smash, one of the involved characters must go last. If this wasn't the case, you could get an extra attack in by using Fireball>Green Missile>Smashed Boomerang>Cyclone Bros.

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Got all that so far? Okay, now it gets complicated.

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Team Battle: The Team Healer requires some level of coordination, but I think this takes it to the next level.

During a team battle, the only way to do Tag-Team Final Smashes is to coordinate button presses with your teammate, who is also playing as a character you can 'Combo with (i.e. you are Mario, he is Luigi). All you have to do is be next to each other (no farther apart than a dodge roll would carry you on the ground, and no farther apart in the air than a Melee-style air dodge would take you) and press B at the same time, and the TTFS goes off without the inclusion of other character's Tag Specials.

Note that in a Tag-Team Mode team battle, there's no special rule like this--Tag Combos and FSs are activated normally.

Also, on the topic of colors...whatever happened to S.P.A.R.K.S.?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Imagine the tier list, or character matchups...

wow, the tier system would be insane, plus imagine a bunch of them would be broken or clones, but still it's awesome, even though it will NEVER happen.

 

[Agi]

wow, the tier system would be insane, plus imagine a bunch of them would be broken or clones, but still it's awesome, even though it will NEVER happen.

Y'know, I expected someone to notice this pic a long time ago. You're the first to mention it.

 

[WolfCypher]

The debate over Fire Emblem characters needs to end. They'll probably get ONE more rep, but the series really isn't all that deserving in comparison to many of the other represented series in Smash Bros.

Third party characters were not a favorite of Sakurai, and I completely support that, despite my longing for a couple third party appearances. I - and I hope all of you - would rather have more NINTENDO characters appear in Smash Bros. rather than non-Nintendo characters, disregarding their closeness. Odds are, Snake and Sonic will stay for SSB4, but you just really never know. Maybe they'll "be in production", but end up getting cut, just like Mewtwo and the others were.

Geno is a lost cause, and despite his cult following, he will never make it in the game. This community is only a very, very small portion of the Smash fans worldwide, and only a few of you even want Geno anymore. He was considered, yes, but the devs did not include him for good reasons. I'd rather have R.O.B. than Geno, Megaman, and many, many other characters, as he is a Nintendo character (not just an accessory anymore) and historically, has been far more important than the majority of characters already in Smash Bros.

Characters will be cut from Brawl's roster for SSB4, that's just how life works; you have to make sacrifices for the better. The only characters I see with the potential to be changed/cut are:

• Toon Link - this Link may dwindle in appearances in Zelda, and may be replaced by another Link, and given that Young Link was changed into Toon Link, I'd say that he has a (3/5) chance of being removed.
• Pit - is a newly rectified retro character with a decent following who sparked some spontaneous amazement upon announcement, but still contends as one of "those characters"; (1/5) chance of removal.
• Ice Climbers - have been in for two games now, and have garnered quite a fan base, but are hated by others; (1/5) chance of removal.
• R.O.B. - since announcement, has been extremely debated as whether or not he "deserves" a roster spot, and because he was a "WTF" character whose only importance was tied with SSE, he probably has a (3/5) chance of removal.
• Pokemon Trainer - despite hosting the three original starter families, more Pokemon have been created since, and probably will be created between now and SSB4, so a removal is probably unlikely, but a change in character is almost inevitably a (4/5).
• Lucario - like Mewtwo before him, he will probably be cut for a replacement with a similar build (4/5).
• Jigglypuff - has appeared in all three Smash Bros. games, but because she's a Pokemon, and that series being very elastic when it comes to character selection, along with the following of Jigglypuff haters, she has a small chance of finally being cut at (2/5).
• Mr. Game & Watch - despite being 99% sure that he would be cut from Melee, he survived, which has buckled him in a bit tighter; he may stand to see another Smash Bros appearance with a (2/5) chance of being cut.
• Snake - despite having a huge following and being a commercial magnet, he is a guest character, and guest characters usually stand for one game only, and with his removal from the Metal Gear series, he unfortunately has a (4/5) chance of being cut.
• Sonic - rivals Nintendo's own franchises in popularity on their consoles and fits very well with the Smash Bros roster, but again, he is a guest character, so I feel that he has a (3/5) chance of being cut.

I enjoyed this post so much, I had to bumb it and add my opinions to it. From the Fire Emblem reps opinion, to the Geno opinion. Well, there are some things I want to dwelve into about this guy's post: The characters with the "most likeliest" chances of being dropped.

[*]Toon Link - this Link may dwindle in appearances in Zelda, and may be replaced by another Link, and given that Young Link was changed into Toon Link, I'd say that he has a (3/5) chance of being removed.

Toon Link is proof as to what is wrong with Link. TL makes Link look so pitiful, gameplay wise. I'm not saying that the fully grown, adult Link should copy everything from TL (example, an adult Link shouldn't be floaty, or have cartoonish attacks), but giving him a better Spinning Attack and Toon Link's bombs (sans the cartoony explosion) would help. The best of both worlds; the best of Link + the best of Toon Link. Here's hoping FOUR gets Link right for once.

[*]Pit - is a newly rectified retro character with a decent following who sparked some spontaneous amazement upon announcement, but still contends as one of "those characters"; (1/5) chance of removal.

Pit was supposed to be in the series from the very start (or so I'm told). Pit would have been in 64, could have been in Melee. Now that we FINALLY got him, I don't see him going anywhere. This is even further true if the Kid Icarus franchise returns and the series sells well. Interest in this character is high now, nevermind the fans like me who have always loved this character before his return. Well, you did say his chances of being dropped were low, but I think they're none-exsistant.

[*]Ice Climbers - have been in for two games now, and have garnered quite a fan base, but are hated by others; (1/5) chance of removal.

What can I say?

[*]R.O.B. - since announcement, has been extremely debated as whether or not he "deserves" a roster spot, and because he was a "WTF" character whose only importance was tied with SSE, he probably has a (3/5) chance of removal.

Again, what can I say? I will say this, while I don't see why he has to be dropped I agree that the Ice Climbers have a better snowball's chance in hell of staying than him.

[*]Pokemon Trainer - despite hosting the three original starter families, more Pokemon have been created since, and probably will be created between now and SSB4, so a removal is probably unlikely, but a change in character is almost inevitably a (4/5).

I actually can see this character's exclusion or replacement (my idea; with the 5th gen main character and the various forms of the 5th gen starters; though I doubt this greatly). The idea that we could get a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th gen Pokémon Trainer + respective starter Pokémon is nice (NOT IMPOSSIBLE), but seeing as how when it comes to the Pokémon reps, their inclusion has always been based on popularity, the original starters not only have senority, but are more well-known. So we'd still (POSSIBLY) have the Pokémon Trainer + team we have now. And the idea of a trainer with random starters from various generations...I'll just say I highly doubt Sakurai would ever go that route.

[*]Lucario - like Mewtwo before him, he will probably be cut for a replacement with a similar build (4/5).

I'm not totally disagreeing, but I feel you lacked a real explaination. Lucario & Pikachu are the only Pokémon reps in Brawl who actually have both popularity on their sides and significance. Not only is Lucario currently a popular Pokémon, its the face of the 4th generation. Never before since the 1st gen has Nintendo, the Pokémon Company, and Gamefreaks pimped out a Pokémon and its likeness so much during advertisments for the Diamond & Pearl installmenst (rather for any generation), as well as various other games & medias (Pokémon Ranger 2, the Mysterious Dungeon games, of course the animé and ALL of the manga). Lucario seems really important...

...for the moment. My fear is that once the 5th gen comes around, not only will Lucario no longer be the other, non-Pikachu mascot of Pokémon because its time has passed with the next generation, but the Pokémon companies will have a newer face for the 5th generation to pimp out and shove at us. So yeah, we might not get Lucario in the next game, and to boot, we might not even get a Lucario replacement (a new Pokémon with a similar playstyle; a spiritual successor in gameplay). Unless Nintendo feel the need to continue Lucario's relevance (or give it 1 5th gen evolution), or Sakurai says "screw all that" and includes it anyway...

[*]Jigglypuff - has appeared in all three Smash Bros. games, but because she's a Pokemon, and that series being very elastic when it comes to character selection, along with the following of Jigglypuff haters, she has a small chance of finally being cut at (2/5).

To expand the franchise's reps, some of the older Pokémon have to go...well, not really, we could just let the numbers grow. But the notion of 8-10 Pokémon don't sit well with many, so...who needs to go?

Want my opinion (like I care)...Jigglypuff. And its not because I hate it (it's not Captain Falcon), its because its outlived its usefulness. It has no significance in the Pokémon world, and its popularity? I don't care what you say, its not that big anymore. If Sakurai was so willing to drop Ness at some point, why not another of the original 12?

[*]Mr. Game & Watch - despite being 99% sure that he would be cut from Melee, he survived, which has buckled him in a bit tighter; he may stand to see another Smash Bros appearance with a (2/5) chance of being cut.

I gotta say, like with Pit earlier, I don't think G&W is going. He didn't get dropped in Brawl, so that cements his placement here. He's a gimmick that has established a lot in the Smash series.

[*]Snake - despite having a huge following and being a commercial magnet, he is a guest character, and guest characters usually stand for one game only, and with his removal from the Metal Gear series, he unfortunately has a (4/5) chance of being cut.

[*]Sonic - rivals Nintendo's own franchises in popularity on their consoles and fits very well with the Smash Bros roster, but again, he is a guest character, so I feel that he has a (3/5) chance of being cut.

Yep, Sakurai said in a ONM interview that getting the rights for some characters (2nd-party at that) was difficult enough. If he doesn't want to go through that again with 3rd parties, he may decide to just omit 3rd-party characters...which would be terrible. We got em,now, and this has become a growing fad (maybe even more than a fad) with fighting games to have guest characters and partake in large crossovers. Besides, no Snake or Sonic hints at no Mega Man in FOUR.

Semi-off topic, I know I read somewhere that Hideo said that while MGS4 would be the last canoncal game with Solid Snake, he would continue to give us side-stories and alternate stories with Snake in them, maybe even the "same" Solid Snake. So Snake's not truly dead.

If there was one character that you left off, its Wolf. I love Wolf, but I think there's a chance for his removal. I base this on...pessimism. I don't know. I just have this bad feeling, is all. The fact that you guys (some of you guys, I should say) want Krystal in this game; now I love the StarFox franchise and all, but does it really deserve four reps, even if FOUR allows for more additions? And if Sakurai does give us Krystal, without adding to the SF reps, someone has to go...and it ain't gonna be Fox!

 

[hippochinfat!!]

You're an idiot. I never said that they would all be cut, but if anyone from Brawl were to be cut, they would be candidates, hence, why I rated them accordingly.

And Master Chief would be a horrible character. He has no signature moves, and would be based entirely around guns. A terrible, terrible character indeed.

He'd have more then just guns. Like that freaking hammer or the Energy Sword. He's got loads of signature moves, someone has never played Halo before. You really should, they're amazing games.

There's no reason to insult me man, I just misread your post and there's no reason changing it now.

 

[C.Olimar788]

Again, what can I say? I will say this, while I don't see why he has to be dropped I agree that the Ice Climbers have a better snowball's chance in hell of staying than him.

I don't see why R.O.B. would be dropped, personally. He's an important piece of Nintendo's history, being one of the original selling points of the N.E.S., and since he's shown up once I doubt he'll get dumped. And none of the surprise characters have been dumped before. After all, they're memorable for being a surprise.

To expand the franchise's reps, some of the older Pokémon have to go...well, not really, we could just let the numbers grow. But the notion of 8-10 Pokémon don't sit well with many, so...who needs to go?

Want my opinion (like I care)...Jigglypuff. And its not because I hate it (it's not Captain Falcon), its because its outlived its usefulness. It has no significance in the Pokémon world, and its popularity? I don't care what you say, its not that big anymore. If Sakurai was so willing to drop Ness at some point, why not another of the original 12?

I really would be surprised to see Jigglypuff go at this point. Like characters like Game & Watch and the Ice Climbers, it seems that Jigglypuff and Ness' inclusion in Brawl has cemented them, along with the rest of the original 12, for being in the series permanently. At this point, Jigglypuff has no real point for staying in. But Brawl kept it in anyway, likely because of its inclusion in the past games.

Yep, Sakurai said in a ONM interview that getting the rights for some characters (2nd-party at that) was difficult enough. If he doesn't want to go through that again with 3rd parties, he may decide to just omit 3rd-party characters...which would be terrible. We got em,now, and this has become a growing fad (maybe even more than a fad) with fighting games to have guest characters and partake in large crossovers. Besides, no Snake or Sonic hints at no Mega Man in FOUR.

The exclusion of our two guest characters... may just be imminent. I'm personally most worried about Snake, as Konami might move away from Nintendo for whatever reason in the coming years. After all, its not like they were particularly interlinked at Brawl's release. And, as has been said, they're guest characters, which are normally dropped.

But I think they have at least a fair chance staying in (or at least, I hope) because of how many people would be sorely disappointed to see them go. It'd be like Mewtwo's exclusion, multiplied by 10. Especially Sonic, who has numerous fans.

And Sega seems like the kind of company that wouldn't mind keeping Sonic in Smash Bros. unless something drastic happens to they're relationship with Nintendo, which hopefully won't happen.

If there was one character that you left off, its Wolf. I love Wolf, but I think there's a chance for his removal. I base this on...pessimism. I don't know. I just have this bad feeling, is all. The fact that you guys (some of you guys, I should say) want Krystal in this game; now I love the StarFox franchise and all, but does it really deserve four reps, even if FOUR allows for more additions? And if Sakurai does give us Krystal, without adding to the SF reps, someone has to go...and it ain't gonna be Fox!

Yeah, i can see why Wolf would be ditched. But personally I think that if Krystal got in (which I don't know about... she's got popularity but little importance) Falco would be the one to get booted rather than Wolf. Wolf has that whole rival character thing going on, and Falco is really just an extra-popular member of Star Fox just like Krystal.

Either way I hope that the staying Star Fox character that isn't Fox gets an Assault based moveset. Mines, grenades, missile launchers...

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

chief if you don't recall it was i who originally suggested the i dea.....just saying. And i just wanted to bring it up again to see what others thought about it.

 

[Chief Mendez]

chief if you don't recall it was i who originally suggested the i dea.....just saying. And i just wanted to bring it up again to see what others thought about it.

Yeah, I remember. No offense intended or anything.

Still, it was quite along while ago. And when you brought it up again, I figured I might as well repost my thoughts on it.

Speaking of Training Mode, am I the only one who is bugged by its lack of full pausing? Like, to get screenshots and stuff? The next game should have that on the Training menu.

Meh. It would be a nice thing to have, but I won't miss it or mourn it's exclusion if it's not there.

 

[darkserenade]

You know what's weird? I felt like reviving the Fire Emblem deserving more slots than pokemon(featuring digimon!).

Fire Emblem is a very deserving franchise in nintendo that many people didn't give a chance, therefore nonpopular. I dare you to watch the pokemon cartoon. If you already have, then you know how freakin' ******** it is. I don't even know how pokemon is popular at all, let alone more popular than digimon(a much more mature and better series, especially season 5).
Pokemon cartoon description: I pick Pikachu! Hey, I got a gym badge! We won! No!!! We lost in the finals! No,my friends are leaving conviently at the end of pokemon generation #1! I'm gonna go emo til season 2! Hey, they joined again!

Worst of all, pokemon don't talk. I swear this will happen one day.

Pikachuika Pika!
Ash:Johnny fell down a well?! I'm coming, Johnny!
Pikachu:*facepencil (the pencil disappeared!), shoots himself,Joker comes,says"Why so serious?"revives Pikachu,says"Come, lets put a smile on that face!"result=Pikachu needs 10 years of therapy.*
The sad part is, 80% of Ike players haven't even played FE.

 

[killori]

I don't get why they made tourney entrants number down to 32. Let their be 64 people.

And keep Lucario!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[handsockpuppet]

characters: 9-volt, Peppy, Jimmy, Dr. Crygor, Mona, Paper Mario, Funky Kong, Mr. L, shadow, knuckles, Mii A, handsockpuppet (a guy can dream, am i right?), Slackoth, Slaking, Prinplup, Mudkip (i heard you like them), Tom Nook, Master Hand, Crazy Hand, Puppit, Tabuu, Black Night, Lyn, Elwood, Hector, and Roy

Now for some random 3rd party characters: God (God tier), Chuck Norris (also God tier), Mr. T, Kappa Mikey, Troll Shaman (from WoW), Ronan (from Grand Chase), Eggy (from Crazy Bones), Yoh (from Shaman King), Faust VIII (also from Shaman King), Zoro (from One Piece), Zach (from Zach Bell), Joey (from Yu-Gi-Oh lolololol), Dora and Diego (lololololx3), Captain Jack Sparrow, Captain Blackbeard, Captain K,Knuckles, Captain Snow, Matthias, and Ender Wiggin.

LOL, i don't really want any more 3rd party characters. Nintendo is enough. but still, those guys would be kool. here's who I DON'T want:

Krystal, Ridley, Megaman, Geno, Mellow, Tingle, Lucario, Pikimen and Olimar (or anybody else from Pikimen), Marth, or Ike.

finally, the physics: wavedashing, L-cancelling, better techs, no tripping, longer airdodges, and shorthoppable lazers.

 

[mkmelee]

I'd like to see the series move into full 3-D. Haha, what a laugh.


But seriously, if they pulled it off, it would be cool.

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah, i can see why Wolf would be ditched. But personally I think that if Krystal got in (which I don't know about... she's got popularity but little importance) Falco would be the one to get booted rather than Wolf. Wolf has that whole rival character thing going on, and Falco is really just an extra-popular member of Star Fox just like Krystal.

Either way I hope that the staying Star Fox character that isn't Fox gets an Assault based moveset. Mines, grenades, missile launchers...

Personally, I think Krystal has more importance than Falco. She's Fox's love interest and gave Fox a little depth to his character. Sure, her appearance coincides with the worse Starfox games, but, to me, it's just a coincidence. I mean the series hasn't featured too much romance since Adventures except for moments in Command.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Personally, I think Krystal has more importance than Falco. She's Fox's love interest and gave Fox a little depth to his character. Sure, her appearance coincides with the worse Starfox games, but, to me, it's just a coincidence. I mean the series hasn't featured too much romance since Adventures except for moments in Command.

Romance in Star Fox seems a little out of place though, what with highly impersonal cockpit conversations and all. Hopefully the next Star Fox game can change stuff up a bit (in a good way) and give Krystal a more prominent role (and her staff back).

 

[Chief Mendez]

Fire Emblem is a very deserving franchise in nintendo that many people didn't give a chance, therefore nonpopular.

To be fair, it's really a very niche series. It's difficult, it's visually unstimulating, and there's tons and tons and tons of text.

So almost by default, it has no chance against Pokemon in terms of popularity.

I dare you to watch the pokemon cartoon. If you already have, then you know how freakin' ******** awesome it is.

Fix'd.

I don't even know how pokemon is popular at all, let alone more popular than digimon(a much more mature and better series, especially season 5).

The fact that you like Digimon is probably why you don't know why Pokemon is popular. Think about that.

Worst of all, pokemon don't talk. I swear this will happen one day.

lol haha noob

Totally already has.[/QUOTE]Really, I personally like Fire Emblem more than Pokemon, but acorss the board, this is not the majority case. And it never will be, so...get over it (sorry if that sounds a bit harsh).

Romance in Star Fox seems a little out of place though, what with highly impersonal cockpit conversations and all. Hopefully the next Star Fox game can change stuff up a bit (in a good way) and give Krystal a more prominent role (and her staff back).

Has nobody besides me played StarFox Command?

 

[flyinfilipino]

I've read stuff about Star Fox Command. But...uh...Krystal still doesn't have her staff...so hah!

 

[Agi]

I've read stuff about Star Fox Command. But...uh...Krystal still doesn't have her staff...so hah!

Staff... cockpit... think about it. I guess she could use it as a seatbelt.

 

[xXavierx]

Better online is all I want.

 

[handsockpuppet]

I just don't like Krystal. Period.

I'll soon get Star Fox Assault, but until then Star Fox 64 is the only good star fox game in my opinion.

 

[darkserenade]

To be fair, it's really a very niche series. It's difficult, it's visually unstimulating, and there's tons and tons and tons of text.

So almost by default, it has no chance against Pokemon in terms of popularity.

Fix'd.

The fact that you like Digimon is probably why you don't know why Pokemon is popular. Think about that.

lol haha noob

Totally already has.

Really, I personally like Fire Emblem more than Pokemon, but acorss the board, this is not the majority case. And it never will be, so...get over it (sorry if that sounds a bit harsh).

Has nobody besides me played StarFox Command?[/QUOTE]

It has good graphics and dialouge(not like the cheesy dialouge in Pokemon).

The Pokemon cartoon is too redundent to be called awesome.

Digimon is more than just to find a trainer, battle, get interrupted by Team Rocket, and make them blast off again every Saturday morning. Also,Have you watched the 5th season of digimon? If you haven't, let's not discuss it.

I'm fine with that, I just wanted to open their eyes.

I've played Command. I like the romantic endings, because it seemed the most thought out.

Also, no offense taken from 'get over it'

 

[Big-Cat]

Has nobody besides me played StarFox Command?

I've played it. In fact, I said earlier that it's a step in the right direction.

 

[metaXzero]

darkserenade. Did you seriously mean to call Pokemon a niche market? Please tell me you're not serious...

 

[handsockpuppet]

sometimes games created by the same people can interfere with niches. Advanced Wars and Fire Emblem are similar, and I like Advanced Wars better. it has places where you can build weapons, bases, long-ranged weaponry, and it's not the end of the world if you lose a machine. also, you can make your own maps, and change the normal CO's color. and it has amazing Wi-Fi. Will for SSB4! seriously, there should be an advanced war rep.

 

[darkserenade]

I've played it. In fact, I said earlier that it's a step in the right direction.

I agree. StarFox Command made it a bit more strategic than previous ones.

Advanced Wars and Fire Emblem are similar, and I like Advanced Wars better. it has places where you can build weapons, bases, long-ranged weapons.....

Dude...did you play FE? It has all that stuff unless you meant that you can build bases.

 

[Spire]

I enjoyed this post so much, I had to bumb it and add my opinions to it.

Toon Link is proof as to what is wrong with Link. TL makes Link look so pitiful, gameplay wise. I'm not saying that the fully grown, adult Link should copy everything from TL (example, an adult Link shouldn't be floaty, or have cartoonish attacks), but giving him a better Spinning Attack and Toon Link's bombs (sans the cartoony explosion) would help. The best of both worlds; the best of Link + the best of Toon Link. Here's hoping FOUR gets Link right for once.

Thanks man

They definitely need to axe the Toon Zelda series, and merge Link and Toon Link (statistically) so Link bumps up in tier. I've actually been playing with him a lot lately, and he can prove to be a very, very resourceful character in battle, always mixing it up. Not the greatest in the game, but still, a very enjoyable character. So yeah, whittle it down to Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, and add maybe one or two more Zelda characters (Goron and Zora preferably, and yes it could happen - just look at Pokemon; none of them are specific characters, and since they are chosen by popularity, the Gorons and Zoras are two of the most popularly represented races from Zelda and would prove to sport excellent and unique movesets).

Also, as much as I've been a huge supporter of Leon, Krystal is growing on me. Although, I'd still take the lizard over ANOTHER canine.

 

[Roy-Kun]

Though I am a FE fan (hey, i'm capable of buying a DS just for FEDS), I agree. Pokemon has a much mayor popularity, but slowly decreasing...

Meh, Pokemon still owns the market, not like Fire Emblem. /response in the FE/Pokemon discussion

Anyways... how would an Advance Wars rep. would fight like? I mean, the COs are just tactitians, just normal people (in-fight by themselves)... Neh... I don't know how their CO powers would work in Smash...

EDIT: In Advance Wars, you don't build bases, you train/build the units.

 

[kr3wman]

Thanks man

They definitely need to axe the Toon Zelda series, and merge Link and Toon Link (statistically) so Link bumps up in tier. I've actually been playing with him a lot lately, and he can prove to be a very, very resourceful character in battle, always mixing it up. Not the greatest in the game, but still, a very enjoyable character. So yeah, whittle it down to Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, and add maybe one or two more Zelda characters (Goron and Zora preferably, and yes it could happen - just look at Pokemon; none of them are specific characters, and since they are chosen by popularity, the Gorons and Zoras are two of the most popularly represented races from Zelda and would prove to sport excellent and unique movesets).

Also, as much as I've been a huge supporter of Leon, Krystal is growing on me. Although, I'd still take the lizard over ANOTHER canine.

Gorons and Zoras? Meh. I'd rather have good old OoT Link than a new Zelda race/character. Toon Link is ok, but people hate it when the joke character is more powerful than the serious one.

And Fire Emblem is indefinitely more popular then advance wars. It basically started the whole genre. I'd rather have a rep from The Shining series than Advance wars. *shivers in fear*

And Roflmao at the 'Pokemon is a niche market'. Dude, Digimon doesn't have like a tenth of the popularity Pokemon had, has and will have.

 

[darkserenade]

darkserenade. Did you seriously mean to call Pokemon a niche market? Please tell me you're not serious...

I did. The shows and games are extremely the same,i.e Pokemon Diamond/Pearl
Pokemon season 1 and 2. They take advantage of the popularity of Pokemon. Edit: Not anymore (thanks to C.Olimar788 for the real definition).

And, Roflmao at 'Pokemon is a niche market'.Dude, Digimon doesn't have a tenth of the popularity pokemon had,has and will.

Because nobody gave digimon a chance. Watch the 5th season, and then we'll talk again.

 

[C.Olimar788]

I did. The shows and games are extremely the same,i.e Pokemon Diamond/Pearl
Pokemon season 1 and 2. They take advantage of the popularity of Pokemon.

I'm noooot entirely sure that you know what that term means... ^_^;;

nice market
noun
"a specialized and profitable part of a commercial market; a narrowly targeted market"

Thanks man

They definitely need to axe the Toon Zelda series, and merge Link and Toon Link (statistically) so Link bumps up in tier. I've actually been playing with him a lot lately, and he can prove to be a very, very resourceful character in battle, always mixing it up. Not the greatest in the game, but still, a very enjoyable character. So yeah, whittle it down to Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, and add maybe one or two more Zelda characters (Goron and Zora preferably, and yes it could happen - just look at Pokemon; none of them are specific characters, and since they are chosen by popularity, the Gorons and Zoras are two of the most popularly represented races from Zelda and would prove to sport excellent and unique movesets).

Why would they axe the Toon Zelda series? What;s wrong with it? It's a unique, stylistic approach to a great game series. Heck, Wind Waker had better characters and development than Twilight Princess. But I digress.

I think that including Toon Link would be smart, as long as he's NOT a clone. Toon Link can take on some Zelda items that Link doesn't use that he does, like the Skull Hammer and Grappling Hook. Heck, he could even use one of the magic wands! They could also use some of these in Link's moveset, sure, but I think his current moveset shouldn't be changed, as it represents the major items of the Zelda series well.

Gorons and Zoras? Don't get me wrong, I love the characters (except their terrible Twilight Princess designs...), but can't Zelda get some important, specific characters first? Vaati, Midna, Tingle, etc. Pokemon has non-specific characters because it practically has to. Pokemon revolves around characters that aren't specific, after all.

 

[darkserenade]

I'm noooot entirely sure that you know what that term means... ^_^;;

nice market
noun
"a specialized and profitable part of a commercial market; a narrowly targeted market"

Even though I feel stupid, you still get my point. Pokemon is redudent. Thank you, by the way.

 

[Spire]

Why would they axe the Toon Zelda series? What;s wrong with it? It's a unique, stylistic approach to a great game series. Heck, Wind Waker had better characters and development than Twilight Princess. But I digress.

I think that including Toon Link would be smart, as long as he's NOT a clone. Toon Link can take on some Zelda items that Link doesn't use that he does, like the Skull Hammer and Grappling Hook. Heck, he could even use one of the magic wands! They could also use some of these in Link's moveset, sure, but I think his current moveset shouldn't be changed, as it represents the major items of the Zelda series well.

Gorons and Zoras? Don't get me wrong, I love the characters (except their terrible Twilight Princess designs...), but can't Zelda get some important, specific characters first? Vaati, Midna, Tingle, etc. Pokemon has non-specific characters because it practically has to. Pokemon revolves around characters that aren't specific, after all.

When suggesting Gorons and Zoras, I was not rectifying them as surefire candidates, if candidates at all. They would never make it, unless perhaps a character like Darbus or Ralis adopted a huge role in the next Zelda. I would personally just love to see a Goron and a Zora as playable characters. In relevance to "core" characters, well... that's just far too debatable. Midna? Skull Kid? Vaati? Tingle? Zant? Really, there are a bit too many, and that's why not only did Young and Toon Link become playable characters, but also why Toon Zelda was in the works, rather than a more unique character - to stay on the safe side.

Anyways, I agreed with the idea to merge Link and Toon Link because they are so similar. If, however, the Toon series continues to thrive at the time of SSB4, then Link should definitely take the best of Toon Link, while the latter should get a completely unique moveset, using items exclusive to him that [realistic] Link has never used, like the Deku Leaf and Skullhammer. However, these items may be long dead by the time SSB4 rolls around, so hopefully Toon Link will use more unique equipment by that time.

Oh, and about axing the Toon series - PH was an axe itself, dumbing down Zelda lower than ever before (CD-i doesn't count). I hope they heal it, because I'd hate to see it go even lower than that sad excuse for a Zelda game. Personally, I was a fan of the cel-shaded design of WW, but I'd like to see the Toon series get a "Toon Link" makeover, as he did in Brawl. That'd be interesting, because it would retain the feel of WW with the addition of spiffy textures.

 

[Chief Mendez]

]It has good graphics and dialouge(not like the cheesy dialouge in Pokemon).

It's not that the graphics aren't good...it's just that they're not very interesting, if that makes sense. I mean, most people's idea ofa good time doesn't revolve around cross-referencing numbers while staring at a grid filled with N64-era character models.

The Pokemon cartoon is too redundent to be called awesome.

Yes it is. But that's not why we (or at least I) like it. I/We like it because it was an integral part of Pokemon's popularity. If you owned a copy or Red or Blue version, and you didn't watch the TV show, you...you failed.

Yes, it's ridiculous and repetitive, but I to this day think Team Rocket is one of the best sources of comedy relief in the anime world. And it's not like I make a point to watch every episode, but if I'm flipping through channels and I see it on, I'll probably watch it.

Also it has amazing song lyrics.

Anyway, I won't get into the Digimon thing, because no, I haven't watched that show in a very, very long time. Perhaps not ever. Even if it's better than Pokemon's serial, it doesn't have the appeal that Pokemon's does--which is that it portrays a universe I've spent literally thousands of hours exploring (in the games). Even if it does so in an incredibly campy manner.

Anyways... how would an Advance Wars rep. would fight like? I mean, the COs are just tactitians, just normal people (in-fight by themselves)... Neh... I don't know how their CO powers would work in Smash...

Neither does Capain Falcon really do all that much aside from driving a hovercar (okay, he's a bounty hunter, but that's just a backstory).

Point is: Advance Wars is an awesome series that's been going since the NES days, and it needs more rep than a crummy Assist Trophy. As an example of how a CO power would work: Andy's Hyper Repair as his FS would restore a bunch of health and make him stronger, faster, and tougher for the next 30 seconds.

Couple that with a moveset based around producing units, and you have yourself an awesome character.

 

[metaXzero]

^You do know that if they get a AW rep, they'll more likely pull a moveset out of their *** a la' Captain Falcon, Fox, and R.O.B.

 

[darkserenade]

It's not that the graphics aren't good...it's just that they're not very interesting, if that makes sense. I mean, most people's idea ofa good time doesn't revolve around cross-referencing numbers while staring at a grid filled with N64-era character models.

That's kinda opinion based...

Yes it is. But that's not why we (or at least I) like it. I/We like it because it was an integral part of Pokemon's popularity. If you owned a copy or Red or Blue version, and you didn't watch the TV show, you...you failed.

That's like saying if brawl had a cartoon series about oatmeal, you would watch it.

Yes, it's ridiculous and repetitive, but I to this day think Team Rocket is one of the best sources of comedy relief in the anime world. And it's not like I make a point to watch every episode, but if I'm flipping through channels and I see it on, I'll probably watch it.

Also it has amazing song lyrics.

Have you never seen Gir from Invader Zim? Also, the song lyric aren't very amazing IMO...

Anyway, I won't get into the Digimon thing, because no, I haven't watched that show in a very, very long time. Perhaps not ever. Even if it's better than Pokemon's serial, it doesn't have the appeal that Pokemon's does--which is that it portrays a universe I've spent literally thousands of hours exploring (in the games). Even if it does so in an incredibly campy manner.

Fun Fact:Digimon came before Pokemon in general,and before Pokemon released DP, Digimon released Dawn and Dusk. Not really relevant, but fun facts usually aren't relevant. Like this! Fun fact: this smiliey :******: is called ******!

 

[Agi]

^^ serenade, don't forget the / in front of the closing quotes... otherwise good points.

 

[darkserenade]

^^ serenade, don't forget the / in front of the closing quotes... otherwise good points.

Thank You! I'll remember!

 

[WolfCypher]

Fun Fact:Digimon came before Pokemon in general,and before Pokemon released DP, Digimon released Dawn and Dusk.

But Digimon was released as a virtual pet, while Pokémon was the true start of the clooectible monster genre. And other virtual pets still preceeded Digimon.

Also, Pokémon had been doing the dual version gimmick loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong before Digimon released Dawn & Dusk. I'm not quite sure what you were going at with Pokémon D/P vs. Digimon D/D

 

[darkserenade]

But Digimon was released as a virtual pet, while Pokémon was the true start of the clooectible monster genre. And other virtual pets still preceeded Digimon.

I was talking about the 'mon' thing, but yeah, I believe you're right. Also, you battled trainers with your digimon, so, same kind of idea.

Also, Pokémon had been doing the dual version gimmick loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong before Digimon released Dawn & Dusk. I'm not quite sure what you were going at with Pokémon D/P vs. Digimon D/D

Neither did I. Neither did I.