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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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You are right about the Ganondorf issue. People want to completely revamp Ganondorf by giving him a sword and yet they don't want to revamp Diddy Kong by giving him Dixie Kong as a team partner.

And how does King K. Rool gets priority over Dixie Kong? Last I checked, Dixie Kong was considered for Brawl, not King K. Rool. :p



Pac-Man is the mascot of Namco. That's the only reason I support Pac-Man if Namco is getting a character. Pac-Man even had guest appearances in Mario Kart Arcade GP 1 and 2. He is the Sonic of Namco - their first games were the best in the series and their latest games were not that great.
As I see it, K. Rool is more influential to the series itself, and Dixie's consideration only stemmed from her direct partnership with Diddy.

As for Pac, I definetly will not discredit Pac-man, but I don;t want to see the yellow hero besmirched further with a lack-luster moveset based on his less than spectacular appearences later in the series.
 

~N9NE~

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Haven't posted in this thread for over a year.

Anyway, Fulgore from Killer Instinct for SSB4.

Make it happen.
 

ScoobyCafe

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^ I aprrove.

You are right about the Ganondorf issue. People want to completely revamp Ganondorf by giving him a sword and yet they don't want to revamp Diddy Kong by giving him Dixie Kong as a team partner.
I really don't advocate changing up moves too much once people become accustomed to said moves. Dixie could be her own character easily, so that's not really an issue. However, if people really want Ganon to use a sword or trident or whatever, I suppose an alternate moveset could satisfy both camps.

MvC2 has something where Wolverine uses [regular] adamantium claws for one set of moves, and [alternate] bone claws for the other. Make it so you can select which set of moves you want.

Pac-Man is the mascot of Namco. That's the only reason I support Pac-Man if Namco is getting a character. Pac-Man even had guest appearances in Mario Kart Arcade GP 1 and 2. He is the Sonic of Namco - their first games were the best in the series and their latest games were not that great.
What happens if Sakurai thinks Pac-Man shouldn't fight, like Animal Crosser? The "Tales of... " series is their flagship franchise at the moment, so I suppose someone from there could join. If not, then Klonoa definitely--how awesome would that be. (Probably won't happen, but still)
 

Big-Cat

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Hey guys, what do you think of the idea of uncharged DSmashes causing trips instead of knockback?
 

ScoobyCafe

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@Kuma



I want my down smash to send people away from me whenever I connect with it. I wouldn't want to get hit with a down smash, trip, then get hit with a forward smash or something while I'm still stunned. Save that for items.
 

n88

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So basically, Namco is entirely up in the air. IMO, Yoshimitsu would be the best candidate, seeing as how he's a regular in both SoulCalibur and Tekken, two of the most prominent fighting series in the industry.

And Most DTilits trip already. Uncharged DSmashes seems a bit unnecessary.
 

Big-Cat

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I only know of the MOTHER boys with moves that trip. All the other ones I've seen just have knockback for their D-Tilt. According to the Smash Wiki, only a handful of characters have this ability.
 

xxTerminatorxx

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I hope Raiden or Gray Fox from the Metal Gear series make it. These guys would probably dominate the game itself.

Aside, I think the next game should a new mode: Obstical Course. The idea is to go through many obsticals that are for only (Kinda like Target Tests in Melee eh?) for certain characters. Anyway, the chararacters must reach a specific point. They must go through spikes, flamethrowers, edges, and enemies. It would be similiar to adventure mode but shorter.
 

n88

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I only know of the MOTHER boys with moves that trip. All the other ones I've seen just have knockback for their D-Tilt. According to the Smash Wiki, only a handful of characters have this ability.
Really? I thought it was more than that. I know Zelda does. I'd perfer tripping D-Tilts to tripping D-Smashes anyway, though. Albeit with a few exceptions (Samus comes to mind).
 

Big-Cat

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Really? I thought it was more than that. I know Zelda does. I'd perfer tripping D-Tilts to tripping D-Smashes anyway, though. Albeit with a few exceptions (Samus comes to mind).
Anyway, it's more of an idea than anything else. It'd be one way to have tripping be a more important part of the game instead of it being in a few moves and that idiotic random one.

What do you guys think of giving Mario each of his abilities via his B Move? BEES suggested it a while back. By doing down B, you change which ability he has. I think this is a good idea if done right. While we're at it, what do you think of giving Mario a glide ability with his cape?
 

n88

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@Kuma

Actually, I think what Mario really needs is to ditch FLUDD. Mario Tornado was better.

I'm not saying this because I'm a Melee fanatic or because I hate FLUDD. I say it because Mario is supposed to be the all-arounder, and with FLUDD instead of the Tornado, his focus changes to gimping, and his recovery is lacking.
 

Big-Cat

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Theoretically, you could make Mario an all-around type with what I suggested. But of course, it might be better to just bring back the Tatsumaki- I mean Mario Tornado just so he doesn't have a particular emphasis.
 

Mowrt620

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I hope Raiden or Gray Fox from the Metal Gear series make it. These guys would probably dominate the game itself.

Aside, I think the next game should a new mode: Obstical Course. The idea is to go through many obsticals that are for only (Kinda like Target Tests in Melee eh?) for certain characters. Anyway, the chararacters must reach a specific point. They must go through spikes, flamethrowers, edges, and enemies. It would be similiar to adventure mode but shorter.
Well, for raiden or gray fox, I don't believe that 3rd party characters should have more than one rep. Of course, theres the factor of "Are they cool, are they moveset-able, and do they fit in the game", but still...doesn't mean it's right. Anyhow, I do like your obstical course idea, sort of like race to the finish, but with more technique and stuff. Ledges and stuff would be additions, meaning you would have to do all sorts of jumping and stuff. Yep...
 
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Mario being a Gimp character isn't all bad. It's rather hard to have a character really be "all-around" in Smash. Mario was a Gimp character in Melee, just one with a more reliable recovery, and there was nothing wrong with that. I say just give him a better recovery and he's fine (I like the glide idea, though perhaps a parachute effect instead).

Mario, even in Brawl, is the closest thing we'll have to a balanced character.
 

Thirdkoopa

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Dixie: I don't really care either way, but how do we know she was planned to be with Diddy for sure? Brings up questions. Bleh, whatever.

Namco: Pac-Man or Lloyd would probably be in for this from the knowledge I know about Namco. I really could see either of these two happening. Would prefer Lloyd but Pac could potentially be interesting.

Third-Party Supporting Characters: Raiden/Grey Fox/Knuckles/Shadow/Tails/Etc? - Not gonna happen.

NSMBWii: Played this. I must say we do need some item influence next time around like the penguin suit. Kamek doesn't really use many moves but his fight was pretty sweet, Yoshi games should start to use him more directly. NOW.

Tripping on DTilts or w/e: Yeah uh no.
 

Lucario1337

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I hope they add more sonic charaters. hopefully tails and eggman. I mean come on eggman deserves to get in. hes ben there before tails.

Even more stages. Mabye majora's mask stage?

Less restraint in the stage builder. But not so much that you can lag the system.

Better items. Items that make people actually want to have items on for tournys and such.

Good music. Hey we all need good music for fighting?

NO MORE TRIPPING! I hope they get rid of tripping to.
 

Kholdstare

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I hope they add more sonic charaters. hopefully tails and eggman. I mean come on eggman deserves to get in. hes ben there before tails.

Keep on dreaming. There won't be more than one rep for each third party.

Even more stages. Mabye majora's mask stage?

Majora's Mask is outdated, but not outdated enough like Mario Bros or Donkey Kong is.

Less restraint in the stage builder. But not so much that you can lag the system.

I agree.

Better items. Items that make people actually want to have items on for tournys and such.

As long as you can still win with skill, not luck, I agree.

Good music. Hey we all need good music for fighting?

We already have awesome music.

NO MORE TRIPPING! I hope they get rid of tripping to.

Agreed.
 
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@TreKoops (Dixie)

I personally feel that Dixie's inclusion would have been with Diddy for 2 reasons:

1) K. Rool is more influential, popular, and unique (though Dixie certainly does not lack any of these)

2) Certain moves of Diddy seem awkward specifically the Down B (looks like the tag gesture in DC2 and bannanas were already pre-made, easy to add in as a move in short time) and to a lesser degree the Over B (When did Diddy ever maul faces? Seems like a potential partner move, though this holds less credibility that the Down B)
 

Czerndog

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They already have SSB4. It's called plus :D
but seriously, its not gonna happen until the next system comes out, which will probably a few years from now...
 

Big-Cat

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Your point? Most of us already knew that.

EDIT: Found this while looking for Sakurai on Wiki regarding his mysterious project.

http://www.project-sora.co.jp/office/index.html

It has nothing to do with the game, but it's a minor tour of the building. I'm surprised to see how clean it is, and that there are arcade sticks. Guess the developers are big fighting game fans.
 

Blue-Lightning

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Hey there! Looooong time reader, first time poster.

Anywho, here are my ideas for the next SSB.

1) Add a "Smash Meter." The Smash Meter fills by the player performing special moves (each special has varying amounts of Smash Points now), by performing a full taunt (though taunt spamming would not increase Smash Points), and by blocking an attack. The Smash Meter would deplete every time the player attempts an unsuccessful smash attack, is hit with a smash attack, or self destructs. The Smash Meter does not reset with a KO.

2) Add "Super Smashes." Super Smashes are gained when a Smash Meter is totally full. Each player has one Super Smash... these are stronger than special moves, but not as strong as Final Smashes. A player begins to have small red stars falling from his/her body once a Super Smash is available. Super Smashes are achieved by pressing shield + special. An example of a Super Smash would be Jigglypuff's "Deep Sleep," in which a Sleep move that fills 3x the area as a normal Sleep is activated, which also causes the affected character to not wake up for 6 seconds regardless of being hit. Players would be unable to take any fallback during this sleep.

3) Final Smashes can still be gained by breaking a Smash Ball, however, there is now a skill-based way of obtaining a Final Smash (so that it is available in competitive play). If a player keeps a Super Smash (full Smash Meter) for 25 seconds, the Super Smash becomes a Final Smash, causing the screen to go dark as per the norm. Only one player can have a Final Smash available at any time, so holding a Final Smash also prevents other players from receiving one. Final Smashes are now activated using shield + special.

4) Air Throws are now added to the game. Only some of the characters have the ability to Air Throw, which is a move that has very high priority. Some examples of air throwers are Sonic, Jigglypuff, and Luigi.

5) Added characters... I'm not going to post the ones I would like to see since that always just turns into a debate. I think 40-42 characters would be a good number. I think if you go beyond that point, it just gets too cluttered.

6) Rebalance, rebalance, rebalance. The next SSB should be made for the competitive crowd. The reason for that is that a balanced game for the competitive crowd would not negatively effect the party crowd at all (which is the larger and more important crowd from a sales prospective). Creating a game that appeals at the casual level is only aided by a game that is very well balanced for hardcore players as well. There will always be tiers, but the difference in playabiltity between a Meta Knight and a Ganondorf should not be so great.

Obviously the Super Smashes would help in rebalancing, as would the abiblity to gain Final Smashes through skill not luck.

7) Changes to some of the classic characters. One example that I can cite off the top of my head, is I would like to see Mario become a jack of all trades type of fighter. His down special would now change him into different forms (Mario, Tiny Mario, Racoon Mario, Dr. Mario)... each would have a different neutral special, a different Super Smash, and minor attribute differences (such as Tiny Mario being much lighter and running faster, but being weak). Some changes like these would make the game fresh. Obviously not every character would need such a makeover (I think Kirby's movelist is pretty good as is).

8) Bring it out soon. Make the next SSB for the Wii, and make it soon. Build it off of the same enging we've got now and just plus the heck out of the game. Balance the characters, add a few new ones, add new stages, and add a new mode... but go ahead and get the game out there for all of us to enjoy. This is not a game that needs a new system for the next iteration.

9) Online play is a must from here on out. Yeah, it was there in SSBB, but it also sucks. Go all out in an online mode that lets players play on dedicated servers. Allow players to gain awards for online wins with each character.

10) Take out the trips, they're pointless.
 

Big-Cat

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1-4. Check the first link in my sig. We've discussed these concepts there, and you're more than welcome to join.
5. I'd expect around 50 next game considering that we have an amount that is agreed to be either 35 or 39 in Brawl.
6. I agree with this. Give something for everyone. Don't cater just to one side of the spectrum. Yeah, tiers are always going to exist, but like you said, indirectly, balancing can shorten the distance between the top and bottom tiers.
7. There's a lot some of the characters can be given. Samus, for example, can finally be given a morph ball mode.
8. It seems like your thinking along the lines of a Brawl update than a flat out sequel, right? As long as Nintendo is the way they are, don't count on it.
9. I think we can all agree that Smash needs a flat out better online mode. Let's just hope Nintendo catches wind of this.
10. The concept of tripping is not bad in itself. Random tripping, however, is quite possibly the worst thing ever added in Smash. Trip inducing moves are a-ok.
 

Czerndog

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@Blue-Lightning:

Adding a bunch of new mechanics is going to firstly make the game unnecessarily complicated, secondly a botch to balance, and thirdly THERE IS A REASON FOR FS'S NEEDING AN ITEM! Smash is fun how it is, but adding fluff is going to just mash the game. Remember, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Look at the current Melee community. They don't play brawl for a reason. You're other suggestions, on the other hand, are already out there, and i mean this in a positive sense. Have you ever seen Brawl+? (www.brawlplus.net) They took out random tripping (Move trips are still there.) Everyone wants new characters, and some of the old ones. I know that I want Doc back, and I want to see Paper Mario and Mega Man in SSB4. The online play is ***, and they really should fix it. SSB4 defiantly isn't coming out on Wii, unless the big N hasn't come out with a new console by 2015. By the time they finish development of the game, the new system would be almost complete, and it just wouldn't make sense to put it on the old one. I don't mean to sound so condescending, but there are so many factors that are known and not known, and so much to put into consideration, and unfortunately for everyone, I'm a stickler for these. Also, remember that this is a forum, and I'm just another guy with an opinion.

:D
 

Big-Cat

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@Blue-Lightning:

Adding a bunch of new mechanics is going to firstly make the game unnecessarily complicated, secondly a botch to balance, and thirdly THERE IS A REASON FOR FS'S NEEDING AN ITEM! Smash is fun how it is, but adding fluff is going to just mash the game. Remember, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Look at the current Melee community. They don't play brawl for a reason.
I think you're being close minded on the ideas he has. A personal smashball/super meter system isn't going to complicate things if it's implemented right. You're saying it would be a botch to the balance, but I can't see anything to show that the games have ever been all that balanced to begin with. I noticed right off the bat that Samus sucked and that Zamus was a heck of a lot better. If there's a reason for FS' needing an item, I'd like to know why. Chances are that you'll respond by saying how overpowered they are (yet some of them are underwhelming).

There is nothing wrong with added stuff as long as it's done right. Don't be too conservative about it. Keep an open mind.

One more thing, I'm sure there are people who believe Smash needs fixing. If not fixing, then it needs something new.
 

Czerndog

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I agree with your intentions, even though i may not agree with your opinions, but I think you REEEEEALY need to look at brawl plus, if not play it.
 

Blue-Lightning

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The idea on the Super Smash concept is a very simple one. The idea is to implement a system where players earn a slightly more powerful special move for good play (taunting, not spamming attacks, using smashes wisely). Here are some ideas for Super Smashes that would work very well:

Sonic - Rising Dash
Sonic dashes forward and up. If any players are hit by this dash, they are pulled into a cinematic where Sonic dashes higher and higher from side of the screen to side of the screen, hitting them each time (think Vega's Ultra Combo in SFIV). Total damage - 30%, strong vertical knockback.

Luigi - Lights Out
All lighting on the stage is removed except for a light eminating from a torch Luigi has pulled out. Other players are only displayed by their eyes in the dark. Several smaller boos appear on the stage and slowly track the other players, doing 15% damage to them if they touch. Luigi attacks with his torch as a weapon (which cannot be thrown) which does damage similar to a light saber. Duration - 12 seconds.

Bowser - Dungeon Fire
The background turns to black and small fireballs begin flying up from below the stage, reminiscent of dungeon levels in Super Mario Bros. games. If a player is hit by these fireballs, they do 5% damage. Bowser cannot be damaged by the fireballs. Duration - 15 seconds.

Now the strategy becomes that a player can use their Super Smash or they can attempt to hang on and go for powerfu move with a final smash. I personally think Final Smashes would need to be toned down a bit for some so that it's not an instant KO. An example would be Super Sonic... lower the damage done to 10% per hit and you've got a Final Smash that is rewarding to the person who manages to get it, but is not a game winner. And if a Super Smash is seen maybe once or twice in every 3 minute game, and a Final Smash is seen maybe once every couple of 3 minute games, then you've got a system that is rewarding but doesn't remove the basic smash mechanics.
 

n88

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@Kuma

Adding more features=More complicated game. It won't necessarily be riciculously complex and incomprehensible, but you can't expand the mechanics without making the game more complex. It goes against the definition of complexity.
 

Big-Cat

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@Kuma

Adding more features=More complicated game. It won't necessarily be riciculously complex and incomprehensible, but you can't expand the mechanics without making the game more complex. It goes against the definition of complexity.
By that logic, we should have games like in the NES days. Adding stuff does not mean the game would necessarily become so complex that only hard core gamers would understand. All you would be doing is just increasing the number of tools available to you.
 
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@Kuma

Adding more features=More complicated game. It won't necessarily be ridiculously complex and incomprehensible, but you can't expand the mechanics without making the game more complex. It goes against the definition of complexity.
Brawl is littered with feature (albeit most are essentially useless) but the game is mind-numbingly simple, still.

It's not the quantity of the features that makes it complex, it's the cumulative complexity of the individual features themselves.
 

n88

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@Kuma

You're misunderstanding. Where in my post did I say that complexity was a bad thing? I'm not necessarily opposing the game becoming more complex, just disputing your usage of the word. I'm a nitpicker like that.

@Shino

I meant features directly relating to gameplay. And the quantity of features is directly related to cumulative complexity, is it not?
 

Big-Cat

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@Kuma

You're misunderstanding. Where in my post did I say that complexity was a bad thing? I'm not necessarily opposing the game becoming more complex, just disputing your usage of the word. I'm a nitpicker like that.

@Shino

I meant features directly relating to gameplay. And the quantity of features is directly related to cumulative complexity, is it not?
Sorry, I misinterpreted what you said.

Would you say stuff like an expanded tether system (meaning not all characters use them), personal smash balls, characters with select high jumps (namely ones like Bowser), and air dashes added in be too much? Maybe reversals, tech throws (to counter throws), and a universal get off of me move?

At most you have seven new things. Only five of them are universal and are individually simple, but two of them just require getting the timing right. Aside from the air dash, all these have been discussed in the gameplay group.
 

Mushinronsha

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I've been reading this thread every so often, and I've heard more than a few people put Mewtwo on their SSB4 wishlists, but I gotta say I'd love to see Mew also/instead. I see Mew as a faster version of Mewtwo.
 

Big-Cat

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Mew's an interesting(I sure use this word a lot, don't I?) idea, but, yeah, I think Mew is more suitable as a Pokeball Pokemon considering that it's a nearly impossible to gain Pokemon.
 

But-itzah-me!

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Alot of the things that I want to be seen through have already been said, including:

-MUCH better stage builder

-more user friendly/ effective online play. As of now, the online play is garbage. I have stopped playing online because it is more frustrating to play and win than to try to find a good captain falcon player.

-no more CLONES!!! They will be the end of us all. I still don't know why Ganon and C. Falcon have the same moveset x.x ... it makes little to no sense AT ALL.

-Keep the game focus on the characters, NOT THE ITEMS. Smashballs juiced up on steriods that do infinate damage and are infinately effective would be cool, don't get me wrong, but make sure the focus of the game stays on the CHARACTERS AND THEIR MOVESETS. No more Metaknights, PLEASE!!!!!


Having said that, I would like to see a few of the following characters, who should have been included in Brawl if not sooner, in SSB4

-Krystal
-Dixie Kong
-MEGAMAN
-Waluigi
-Knuckles and/or Miles "Tails" Powers!!! (Anyone besides AMY, for the love of GOD!)
-Veiutiful Joe
-Possible Ash/Gary rivalry, each with the existing 3 pokemon setup?

I am looking forward to moving on from Brawl, as well as moving on from the elitists of melee. Go talk and argue at someone else about how much more techy melee is for chrissake, I don't care anymore!! Argh! >.<
 
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Alot of the things that I want to be seen through have already been said, including:

-MUCH better stage builder -Agreed

-more user friendly/ effective online play. As of now, the online play is garbage. I have stopped playing online because it is more frustrating to play and win than to try to find a good captain falcon player. Double Agreed

-no more CLONES!!! They will be the end of us all. I still don't know why Ganon and C. Falcon have the same moveset x.x ... it makes little to no sense AT ALL. I dig clones, but I'll leav it at that and won't bash you for it

-Keep the game focus on the characters, NOT THE ITEMS. Smashballs juiced up on steriods that do infinate damage and are infinately effective would be cool, don't get me wrong, but make sure the focus of the game stays on the CHARACTERS AND THEIR MOVESETS. No more Metaknights, PLEASE!!!!! I think I ageee with what you are saying, but Metaknight does not rely on items to ****, it's the inbalance of the game


Having said that, I would like to see a few of the following characters, who should have been included in Brawl if not sooner, in SSB4

-Krystal No, I hate her. (I'm biased)
-Dixie Kong Yes please, though K. Rool too
-MEGAMAN Meh, sure why not
-Waluigi Haha let's do it
-Knuckles and/or Miles "Tails" Powers!!! (Anyone besides AMY, for the love of GOD!) Or not, no one should be added from 3rd pary universe
-Veiutiful Joe Definitely would be cool, but Megaman would get in first
-Possible Ash/Gary rivalry, each with the existing 3 pokemon setup? YES, finally another supporter...though you probably shouldnt call them Gary and Ash

I am looking forward to moving on from Brawl, as well as moving on from the elitists of melee. Go talk and argue at someone else about how much more techy melee is for chrissake, I don't care anymore!! Argh! >.<
Well if you don't like brawl, or melee, I don't know what you expect out of the next game, it's probably gonna be like one or the other (unfortunatly probably more like brawl)
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Haha?

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Character Creator.
Every Character From 64,Melee and Brawl Including new ones.
When playing online with randoms not having CPU's joining the fight.
Improved Stage Creator (Also able to test with any character instead of just Mario, No Running Out Of Parts).
Uniqe Outfits, Kinda Like Warios But For Everyone, Even More Characters Like Sheik/Zelda (Link/Fierce Deity, C.Falcon/Blood Falcon)
The Ability To Download/Upload Music For Stages.
Team Final Smash's (For Instance, If Marth Got A Smash Ball And Ike Was On His Team They Could Genk On One Of The Opponents And Stuff Like That)
A LOT More Stages, All Of The Past Stages.
Unlimited Replay Time.

Nuff Said........
 

professor mgw

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Prof3ssorMGW
Not sure what firece diety is.

I hope ssb4 discussion will actually be LOOKED at when they decide 2 make another 1.......
 
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