[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Spire]

Fine. I myself was actually saving this for a future topic. I have many more analyses for other characters. I am tired of being complacent about a lot of the nonsense that is going on this site since my absence.

Also, I am glad you enjoyed my entrance. I hope everyone enjoys my presence in this topic for now on. I have a lot of in-depth insight, that is second to none.

Props for the Wolf and Phoenix Wright quotes. How's that project of yours coming along?

 

[ChronoBound]

Props for the Wolf and Phoenix Wright quotes. How's that project of yours coming along?

A delayed project has the potential to be good, a bad topic/game stays bad forever./Miyamoto

It looks like I will delay posting it until late August. I want to make sure its perfect whenever I decide posting it. I am thinking about accepting more people to help me with the endeavor, and I am going to be viewing a lot of user's post history to see if they would get along with the ideas/roster I have planned as well as being insightful and intelligent. Nobody send me PMs asking about the project, instead I will PM you.

 

[ness4life]

So, Chronobound, what are your thoughts on a DS version of Smash? It has been one of the hot topics on this thread, and seeing as your opinion seems to be held in great regard, I was curious as to your view on the matter.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Fine (not that I ever played sunshine anyways)...I'll just say "Look how big Ridley was in melee' intro!!!".

He looked very dumb in that. He'd looker stupider in the actual game because that scene was really fast so you don't a good look at it.

Sakurai put Ridley as a boss because he knew he's to big. People need to stop kidding themselves, he won't be in Smash 4.

Also, a DS Smash Bros. would be a terrible game.

 

[ChronoBound]

So, Chronobound, what are your thoughts on a DS version of Smash? It has been one of the hot topics on this thread, and seeing as your opinion seems to be held in great regard, I was curious as to your view on the matter.

In 2005 (or 2004) I made very detailed plans for a Smash Bros. DS. I no longer have the document for Smash DS in my computer, however, I do have a physical copy of it. Perhaps in the future I will retype that document and share the ideas I had with the people in this topic.

Edit: I just looked at the physical copy. There are three typed pages of ideas for Smash DS.

 

[ness4life]

@ HippoChinFat: Why would it be so terrible? Just stating that it would be awful doesn't really convince anyone of your views. Is it that the screen would be too small, or the button layout, or the graphics? I would love any version of Smash, even on an N-Gage!... ok, maybe not the N-Gage, but you get my point.

 

[FAILchion-]

So, Chronobound, what are your thoughts on a DS version of Smash? It has been one of the hot topics on this thread, and seeing as your opinion seems to be held in great regard, I was curious as to your view on the matter.

I know I'm not Chrono, but mind if I give my opinion on it as well? =x Smash DS, in my eyes, would basically be an enhanced Smash 64, yet a smaller Melee. I'm not sure if they'd use sprites or an N64 interface. I'd guess that there would be around 20-25 characters, and some franchises would get entirely new or more rep, and some characters would be out from Brawl. I'd definitely look forward to it, if it were being made. =)

 

[Agi]

I would love any version of Smash, even on an N-Gage!... ok, maybe not the N-Gage, but you get my point.

Oh, no. I don't know about the rest of you, but I just saw cellphone and Ipod Smash... the end of the world as we know it...

 

[ness4life]

Oh, no. I don't know about the rest of you, but I just saw cellphone and Ipod Smash... the end of the world as we know it...

Playing smash with a touch wheel? That sounds like a big boatload of AWESOME!!!11

Seriously? No, Nintendo would never hoar out one of their major series like that... I hope.

Personally, I would hope that a Smash DS would stay as a 3-D model-based game, not sprite-based. Smash may actually get decent online... what a thought!

A smash DS would only have 15-20 characters, or less. I think that a smart development team would know to keep things small, and not try to be better than a console version.

 

[Agi]

Somewhat off topic...

Ness4life: I couldn't help but notice your siggy,(Where did the name Super Smash Brothers come from, in case you've changed it... and you did, in the time it took me to write this comment... O_o) and because you appear to be such an avid Earthbound player, I would think that you would know where the Smash part comes from!

(Ness attacks! SMAAAAAAASH! Heavily Armed Pokey took 243 damage!)

...just a theory.

 

[ChronoBound]

Playing smash with a touch wheel? That sounds like a big boatload of AWESOME!!!11

Seriously? No, Nintendo would never hoar out one of their major series like that... I hope.

Personally, I would hope that a Smash DS would stay as a 3-D model-based game, not sprite-based. Smash may actually get decent online... what a thought!

A smash DS would only have 15-20 characters, or less. I think that a smart development team would know to keep things small, and not try to be better than a console version.

I concur about the range of characters being 15-20 for a Smash DS. Smash 64 was originally intended to have 15 characters (Sakurai mentioned on Japanese Smash 64 site that he planned to add Bowser, Mewtwo, and King Dedede to the game but they couldn't due to limited time and budget).

 

[ness4life]

Somewhat off topic...

Ness4life: I couldn't help but notice your siggy,(Where did the name Super Smash Brothers come from, in case you've changed it... and you did, in the time it took me to write this comment... O_o) and because you appear to be such an avid Earthbound player, I would think that you would know where the Smash part comes from!

(Ness attacks! SMAAAAAAASH! Heavily Armed Pokey took 243 damage!)

...just a theory.

My name comes from the fact that I mained Ness in Melee and N64 smash. I have never played Earthbound, though I intend to change that if it ever gets re-released in some form or another. In hindsight, my name was a very poor choice, since my main has changed (it's Pit now, but Ness is still a secondary).

I concur about the range of characters being 15-20 for a Smash DS. Smash 64 was originally intended to have 15 characters (Sakurai mentioned on Japanese Smash 64 site that he planned to add Bowser, Mewtwo, and King Dedede to the game but they couldn't due to limited time and budget).

Yes, but would the game just contain three other PC's than the original 12? Personally, I would hope to see Jigglypuff scrapped in favor of a more recent pokemon (Deoxys comes to mind).

 

[Ilex]

It heard that it was Meowth, Pit, and Dedede who were supposed to be in 64 o.o

 

[ChronoBound]

It heard that it was Meowth, Pit, and Dedede who were supposed to be in 64 o.o

No, it wasn't Meowth and Pit. It was Mewtwo and Bowser. You are right about Dedede though.

Meowth was a pokeball Pokemon in Smash 64 though.

 

[ness4life]

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_cut_characters_in_the_Super_Smash_Bros._series

Here's what smash wiki has to say...

 

[okiyama]

I wanna see smash wiki's source there...

after all smash wiki is a wiki anyone could mess with it.

That sonic in SSBM thing is total BS there reasoning is "Sonic, along with Tails, were thought to be unlockable in Super Smash Bros. Melee by defeating 20 Fighting Wire Frames in Cruel Melee. This turned out to be an April Fools' Joke by EGM." -Sonic article

 

[Super Smash Dude]

Sakurai kinda hinted that Brawl would be THE LAST game in the Smash series. I believe that's why he wanted to work so hard on it and stuff so much into it, like all the music, stickers, trophies, and other collectables about things from many other games.

But if Brawl isn't the last game, I hope that the next game will have more third-party characters and even more characters in general, though I prefer that they put more characters from games that haven't had much attention recently, like Pit from Kid Icarus.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Do people actually think Ridley's too big?

I for one don't think he's too big. In fact, it's completely possible to make Ridley be around Samus's height. Want him to be big, just grab a Super Mushroom and bingo.

After all, Bowser was resized to be as tall as Donkey Kong, so it's completely doable for Ridley too.

How could they possibly make Ridley without him being a Charizard clone? He'd pretty much have the same moveset but would be slower than Charizard since he's hunched over and would match Pit in annoying sounds.

I doubt that Ridley would actually be a Charizard clone for some decent reasons.

*Most of Ridley's special moves would be different form Charizard's; they would probably be based off what he did in Brawl. This applies even to Meta Ridley's fireball attacks.

*Also, Ridley is quite skinny, while Charizard is rather bulky. If anything, Ridley would be a medium-light weight fighter.

*Regarding ground speed, Ridley would walk as fast as Ike (which is pretty slow). However, his dash speed would be quite fast; being faster than Diddy Kong, but slower than Meta Knight.

Overall, Ridley can easily NOT be a clone of anyone.

 

[ness4life]

Believe me, Brawl isn't the last smash. That would be like someone saying "OK, that's it. We're not making any more Mario games." Smash is a cash cow, and is the best marketing for the other Nintendo games out there. If Sakurai doesn't want to make more Smash games, Nintendo will get someone else. Guaranteed.

 

[FAILchion-]

Believe me, Brawl isn't the last smash. That would be like someone saying "OK, that's it. We're not making any more Mario games." Smash is a cash cow, and is the best marketing for the other Nintendo games out there. If Sakurai doesn't want to make more Smash games, Nintendo will get someone else. Guaranteed.

Sakurai won't leave us after Brawl. He said that if Nintendo plans on making Smash DS (or any other Smash), he said he'd be happy to work on it once again.

 

[ness4life]

Sweet. Out of curiousity, where did you find that?

 

[FAILchion-]

Sweet. Out of curiousity, where did you find that?

The Smash DS thread. XD Most specifically, in an interview with Sakurai. So I'm glad he'll stick around. But if tripping is back in Smash DS, I'll literally blow up Japan. >.>

 

[Bowser King]

How could they possibly make Ridley without him being a Charizard clone? He'd pretty much have the same moveset but would be slower than Charizard since he's hunched over and would match Pit in annoying sounds.

As for F-Zero, I heard someone say this and I'll repeat what they said. The characters aren't interesting or important to F-Zero, their cars are the only significant part of their character. Unlike Star fox whose characters are interesting and have actual ground missions, F-Zero characters really just don't matter whether they existed or not because it's just a racing game. I used to be pro-Black Shadow but I'm not anymore.

Ridley would not be a clone of charizard. There are a lot of differences between the 2. They have resemblances but they would be different. Ridley would have more jumps but less power. Ridley seems lighter (due to being skinny and note that I'm saying this if he was resized to bowers height) so he would fly faster (like mewtwo in melee) but would have quicker hits. His smash attacks wouldn't revolve around his tail as much. Those are just some differences between the 2. Even there specials would be a lot different. Rock smashing Ridley?

 

[ness4life]

Ridley would not be a clone of charizard. There are a lot of differences between the 2. They have resemblances but they would be different. Ridley would have more jumps but less power. Ridley seems lighter (due to being skinny and note that I'm saying this if he was resized to bowers height) so he would fly faster (like mewtwo in melee) but would have quicker hits. His smash attacks wouldn't revolve around his tail as much. Those are just some differences between the 2. Even there specials would be a lot different. Rock smashing Ridley?

We're using the R-word again!

lol oh well. Ridley will get in as a PC, developers have tackled bigger challenges than getting a space pterodactyl in to a fighting game. For all of you doubters and haters out there: Suck It. So it didn't happen in Brawl, but Nintendo saw the fan reaction to Ridley's nonplayability, and will definitely remedy that in the next smash.

 

[Bowser King]

We're using the R-word again!

lol oh well. Ridley will get in as a PC, developers have tackled bigger challenges than getting a space pterodactyl in to a fighting game. For all of you doubters and haters out there: Suck It. So it didn't happen in Brawl, but Nintendo saw the fan reaction to Ridley's nonplayability, and will definitely remedy that in the next smash.

Exactly. Nintendo has done bigger things then scale down a character. Nintendo knows people want Ridley in and they were upset with what happened in brawl. You can easily tell by how Nintendo added Ridley twice but only 1 other character not from the smash franchise (and that was from Mario, Nintendo's biggest franchise). Unless they want to upset more people adding Ridley (the most wanted Nintendo character) would a smart choice.

 

[Big-Cat]

I was wondering what your thoughts are on adding music from one series into a stage for another series. For example, a mario song on a Metroid stage assuming that it fits like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sz3RpSB4gw

 

[ness4life]

I think we should have full customization in Smash: any music on any stage. We should be able to import our own music from an SD card like in Excite Truck. That would be awesome.

 

[SirKibble]

You know, I don't like the idea of Ridley in Smash, but I'm beginning to hope he gets in, just so we can stop having to hear everyone whine about him.

I think we should have full customization in Smash: any music on any stage. We should be able to import our own music from an SD card like in Excite Truck. That would be awesome.

That truly would be awesome. A lot of awesome songs were left out (although you gotta give them props for the plethora of awesome tunes that got in).

 

[Chief Mendez]

I think we should have full customization in Smash: any music on any stage. We should be able to import our own music from an SD card like in Excite Truck. That would be awesome.

In Excite Truck, that was an awesome feature. But...there are enough terrible Linkin Park AMVs on YouTube. I don't want that experience replicated in Smash Bros.

Plus, what would be the point of unlocking music, when you can put anything you want in it instead?

Anyways, Waluigi for the console SSB4, Yes or No? Is there even a possible moveset for him? Doesn't Toad deserve a spot more? Opinions?

I don't like Waluigi. It would really help his case if he showed up in Wario Land: Shake It, or something...really, anything besides Mario Sports games.

Also I'm anti-Toad, because

Spoiler

he's already in the game, and

he's a minor, supporting character, who's never had any significant role in a game. Heck, there's never even been a Toad sidekick in any Paper Mario game--the same series that brought back Mowser.

And if nintendo's next console actually decides to COMPETE with Sony and Microsoft, one could expect Downloadable Characters, a crapload to begin with, and just about endless possibilities. That is, IF nintendo doesn't completely let down the core gamer (which wouldn't surprise me).

I think we should avoid this sort of talk in the future. There are tons of threads concerning the Casual Argument you can visit elsewhere, and I'd like to keep this thread as civil as possible.

And for all of you Ridley doubters, Ridley could just hover a few inches off the ground (Mewtwo-style), or just be a ground character. He CAN walk, he just prefers not to. Ridley is way too important to the entire Metroid universe not to be a playable character. Sure, the bounty hunters would be cool, but Rundas seems to be the only one with a semi-unique moveset (and even he borrows from the IC's). Dark Samus would be more of a stretch than Ridley (it's a freakin' flying shapeshifting phazon entity!)

I am pro-Ridley. The arguments against him are just supposition.

Anyway, on the topic of Hunters: the most likely one is probably Sylux. The three Hunters featured in Prime are all dead, and besides which, none were very interesting or original.

But Sylux has things coming to him, apparently.

------------

Also, I'm glad somebody brought up the idea of Smash DS being a Smash 64 port. I'd totally buy the game, assuming they added a few characters and stages, and a WiFi mode. Also, polygons are always the way to go in Smash.

And one final note: Sonic and Snake will still be in. They're totally original movesets that couldn't be pulled off with another character (as was the case with Mewtwo and Lucario). Plus, if you think the backlash from axing Mewtwo was at all a little annoying, just imagine the fanboy outrage that would go down if Sonic were cut.

I've said it before, but Megaman's only such a supported character now because Sonic's already in. Don't anyone forget that.

 

[ness4life]

In Excite Truck, that was an awesome feature. But...there are enough terrible Linkin Park AMVs on YouTube. I don't want that experience replicated in Smash Bros.

Plus, what would be the point of unlocking music, when you can put anything you want in it instead?

I don't like Waluigi. It would really help his case if he showed up in Wario Land: Shake It, or something...really, anything besides Mario Sports games.

Also I'm anti-Toad, because

Spoiler

he's already in the game, and

he's a minor, supporting character, who's never had any significant role in a game. Heck, there's never even been a Toad sidekick in any Paper Mario game--the same series that brought back Mowser.

I think we should avoid this sort of talk in the future. There are tons of threads concerning the Casual Argument you can visit elsewhere, and I'd like to keep this thread as civil as possible.

I am pro-Ridley. The arguments against him are just supposition.

Anyway, on the topic of Hunters: the most likely one is probably Sylux. The three Hunters featured in Prime are all dead, and besides which, none were very interesting or original.

But Sylux has things coming to him, apparently.

------------

Also, I'm glad somebody brought up the idea of Smash DS being a Smash 64 port. I'd totally buy the game, assuming they added a few characters and stages, and a WiFi mode. Also, polygons are always the way to go in Smash.

And one final note: Sonic and Snake will still be in. They're totally original movesets that couldn't be pulled off with another character (as was the case with Mewtwo and Lucario). Plus, if you think the backlash from axing Mewtwo was at all a little annoying, just imagine the fanboy outrage that would go down if Sonic were cut.

I've said it before, but Megaman's only such a supported character now because Sonic's already in. Don't anyone forget that.

good points on all counts. I still think that Snake may be in the hot seat, but if other MGS games get made with him (like a prequel, I know he won't be the main char in mgs5) for Wii or DS, then he would have a reason to be back in. don't get me wrong, i love snake's smash moveset, and am all for him coming back, but it may not happen.

here's a topic no one has touched on in a while: what items do you want in ssb4? some were cut from melee, which made me sad, and they missed out on giving us great items like a gliding item. any thoughts?

 

[OmegaXXII]

good points on all counts. I still think that Snake may be in the hot seat, but if other MGS games get made with him (like a prequel, I know he won't be the main char in mgs5) for Wii or DS, then he would have a reason to be back in. don't get me wrong, i love snake's smash moveset, and am all for him coming back, but it may not happen.

it would be so sad it they were to remove Snake from the MGS series because he PWNS in every way, plus the MGS series wouldn't be the same without him, so no, I hope he still shows up in the next Smash

btw, what this Smash DS you guys are talking about?, because I'm lost

 

[ness4life]

This thread has pretty much become a "Smash DS or Smash 4, whichever comes first" discussion thread. Since, Smash 4 could technically be a DS title, I guess.

 

[ChronoBound]

good points on all counts. I still think that Snake may be in the hot seat, but if other MGS games get made with him (like a prequel, I know he won't be the main char in mgs5) for Wii or DS, then he would have a reason to be back in. don't get me wrong, i love snake's smash moveset, and am all for him coming back, but it may not happen.

here's a topic no one has touched on in a while: what items do you want in ssb4? some were cut from melee, which made me sad, and they missed out on giving us great items like a gliding item. any thoughts?

Kojima said that MGS4 is Snake's last game, and that if he made future Metal Gear games they would star a new protagonist.

Also, I wrote a five page essay on how Snake could be replaced in Smash Bros. without losing his moveset, codecs (the replacement is similar to them), and Konami representation.

 

[Chief Mendez]

here's a topic no one has touched on in a while: what items do you want in ssb4? some were cut from melee, which made me sad, and they missed out on giving us great items like a gliding item. any thoughts?

I just want more "gear" items. Aside from the Spin Attack and Franklin Badge, it's a totally unrepresented category.

Examples:

Winged Cap (Mario 64): Character wears it on their head on pick-up, and allows for the use of the gliding mechanic, like Pit/Meta/Charizard.

Golden Gauntlets (Ocarina of Time): Lasts longer than other gear items. Confers no advantages in regular combat, but allows for much quicker picking up and throwing of heavy items and characters (whether heavy or not). Objects and fighters thrown with these on go farther as well.

Angel Feather (Kid Icarus): For a limited time after pick-up, if the wearer falls off-stage (keyword: "falls". If the wearer is knocked off the stage and is helpless, they'll still get KO'd), the Feather boosts them back upwards, though they still have to move themselves over towards the stage.

Kojima said that MGS4 is Snake's last game, and that if he made future Metal Gear games they would star a new protagonist.

Well, they could still star "Snake" if Konami ever goes back to that huge gap between the 1960s and 2000, like they already have with Portable Ops. It wouldn't be Solid Snake, it'd be

Spoiler

John

Naked Snake.

But Snake nonetheless. Anyway, technicality. Moving on...

Also, I wrote a five page essay on how Snake could be replaced in Smash Bros. without losing his moveset, codecs (the replacement is similar to them), and Konami representation.

Well, throw out some linkage, man! Don't just tease us like that...

 

[OmegaXXII]

Kojima said that MGS4 is Snake's last game, and that if he made future Metal Gear games they would star a new protagonist.

Also, I wrote a five page essay on how Snake could be replaced in Smash Bros. without losing his moveset, codecs (the replacement is similar to them), and Konami representation.

hmm.. well looking at it that way, then I guess this "new" replacement wouldn't be so bad, but one thing is for sure he has to be just as cool and good looking as Snake, because I would die if another MGS came out and isn't as cool as Snake.

 

[ness4life]

Kojima said that MGS4 is Snake's last game, and that if he made future Metal Gear games they would star a new protagonist.

Also, I wrote a five page essay on how Snake could be replaced in Smash Bros. without losing his moveset, codecs (the replacement is similar to them), and Konami representation.

Keyword there: Kojima said that if he made future MG games they wouldn't star Snake. idk, Konami might not want to give up on such an iconic character, I'm not familiar with the inner workings of Konami. Where do you find the time to write so many essays? I'm jealous.

I just want more "gear" items. Aside from the Spin Attack and Franklin Badge, it's a totally unrepresented category.

Examples:

Winged Cap (Mario 64): Character wears it on their head on pick-up, and allows for the use of the gliding mechanic, like Pit/Meta/Charizard.

Golden Gauntlets (Ocarina of Time): Lasts longer than other gear items. Confers no advantages in regular combat, but allows for much quicker picking up and throwing of heavy items and characters (whether heavy or not). Objects and fighters thrown with these on go farther as well.

Angel Feather (Kid Icarus): For a limited time after pick-up, if the wearer falls off-stage (keyword: "falls". If the wearer is knocked off the stage and is helpless, they'll still get KO'd), the Feather boosts them back upwards, though they still have to move themselves over towards the stage.

All of these are awesome ideas. I thought of an idea for a new iteam:

Blue Winged Shell -From Mario Kart

It works like this: a player throws the shell in the direction of a character, and it flies toward him and starts to home in on them. The shell (flying a few "feet" off the ground) would fly at about the speed of Kirby running (slow enough so that the player would have time to have a chance). Here's where it gets interesting: if the targeted player passes over another player, the shell switches to targeting them (yes, a gooey bomb copy, but with a twist). The shell would be a little more powerful than a gooey bomb, but not smart bomb level. If the targeted player "aims" the shell following them into another item or a player, the shell would explode, too.

So there you have it, my take on the Blue Winged Shell

 

[Chief Mendez]

Blue Winged Shell -From Mario Kart

It works like this: a player throws the shell in the direction of a character, and it flies toward him and starts to home in on them. The shell (flying a few "feet" off the ground) would fly at about the speed of Kirby running (slow enough so that the player would have time to have a chance). Here's where it gets interesting: if the targeted player passes over another player, the shell switches to targeting them (yes, a gooey bomb copy, but with a twist). The shell would be a little more powerful than a gooey bomb, but not smart bomb level. If the targeted player "aims" the shell following them into another item or a player, the shell would explode, too.

Alternatively, any player throws it out, at which point it just flies off-screen, into the background.

After a minute has passed, it homes in on whoever's in first place (who has the most stock/points), and hits them for Motion Sensor Bomb-esque damage. There's a really big blast radius (like, a bit bigger than the full range of a Smart Bomb), and you can see it drawing closer from the background, so if you know you're going to get hit, (just like in Mario Kart) you can focus your efforts on being really close to other players.

 

[Digimonkey]

Blue Cap (from Super Mario 64):
Makes projectiles go straight through you.

Deku Leaf (from Zelda games):
Makes you glide after a jump (like the red cap idea above).

1up (from Kirby Crystal Shards 64):
Gives you an extra life (don't forget you can decide whether or not to have these items in your match).

 

[ChronoBound]

hmm.. well looking at it that way, then I guess this "new" replacement wouldn't be so bad, but one thing is for sure he has to be just as cool and good looking as Snake, because I would die if another MGS came out and isn't as cool as Snake.

The moveset replacement for Snake is not a Metal Gear character...

 

[Agi]

1up (from Kirby Crystal Shards 64):
Gives you an extra life (don't forget you can decide whether or not to have these items in your match).

I don't think that we'll ever see a 1up in the match... think of the effect on the Big Picture, even on the casual scene...

EDIT: Plus, how would it work on time matches?