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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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ness4life

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Well put, Spire.

And if nintendo's next console actually decides to COMPETE with Sony and Microsoft, one could expect Downloadable Characters, a crapload to begin with, and just about endless possibilities. That is, IF nintendo doesn't completely let down the core gamer (which wouldn't surprise me).
 

AnAardvark

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OK, poorly phrased. A more PC way of saying what I meant: "I would like a DS smash, kind sir."
Last time I argue with someone who has 8x my posts...

Anyways, Waluigi for the console SSB4, Yes or No? Is there even a possible moveset for him? Doesn't Toad deserve a spot more? Opinions?
I don't think they'd allow Toad to be an individual character, since they'd probably have to think of a new Neutral-B for Peach and there would be some other complications. And Waluigi might replace Wario, or be a clone, since Mario and Luigi are probably going to be in SSB4, but don't get me wrong, I'd enjoy having Waluigi. :laugh:
 

ness4life

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I don't think there's really any chance of Waluigi replacing Wario, since he has his own games. If Waluigi did come in, I'd hope that he wouldn't be a clone, but what other moveset could you do? Build an entire moveset around "Footstomp"? That would be incredibly awesome, but unless he gets a better role in the Mario games, he probably won't make it in.
Same goes for Daisy, but who even wants her in?
 

Del Money

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Don't say "Look how big Bowser was in sunshine!!!"
Fine (not that I ever played sunshine anyways)...I'll just say "Look how big Ridley was in melee' intro!!!".

That is, IF nintendo doesn't completely let down the core gamer (which wouldn't surprise me).
Yeah it sucks, but you gotta remember hardcore gamers are in the minority. That being said, it's still no excuse for a company to half-ass their console like they did with the Wii. If the Wii matched the power potential of the other consoles it would have more 3rd party support and probably better online service.
 

Ilex

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Walugi wishes he could compete for SSB4 on the same level as Toad. Toad has been around since the dawn of Super Mario Bros, has been in every spinoff title and was even a playable character in Super Mario Bros 2. What has Waluigi done? He was made because Wario needed a tennis partner. Yeah.
Toad has been in every Mario game to date and he shouldn't be left out of Smash. You may say that he isn't a fighter, but neither is Peach, CF, or Zelda. Oh, and screw Peach's neutral B. They have tons of SPP techniques to choose from to replace it. If there's a new Mario character, it's gonna be Toad.
 

C.Olimar788

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Waluigi? Hah. Waluigi has less importance than Daisy, and that's saying a lot. Toad has both had his own game and has numerous importance in the mainstream Mario series.

And since I doubt Toad will ever become playable and get out of his restraint as Peach's B move, Waluigi will never ever be anything more than an Assist Trophy and Luigi's alternate color. And Daisy won't either. Ever.
 

Agi

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Personally, I can see Toad as being playable.

(For some reason, I keep on seeing Toad with Wario's Bair everytime I think about it... actually, I can see a lot of his non spec's being similar to Wario and Squirtle. Maybe I'm just weird that way.)
 

SirKibble

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Anyways, Waluigi for the console SSB4, Yes or No? Is there even a possible moveset for him? Doesn't Toad deserve a spot more? Opinions?
If you ask me:

Waluigi < Toad < Bowser Jr.

Toad's a better choice than Waluigi, who really has no significance to the Mario series, but Bowser Jr. is an even better choice, in my opinion, as I think he has more potential as a Smash character. He stands out a little more, I think.
 

Agi

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Challenger Approaching

Probably has been mentioned on this thread, but...

Waluigi < Toad < GENO < Bowser Jr.

(Hides from flamers who don't appreciate Geno, or who took the time to read all 190 pages..)

---64'th post! I am one with the N64---
 

oceanic--ice

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I don't get how you think a DS game would bridge the gap between games....or how a spinoff is even necessary. Besides, hand-held gaming as a whole has been declining ever since Nintendo kept releasing new models the GBA. As of now, the only people I see with handheld consoles are like 12 and younger.
I Completely agree...the only reason i have DS is for diamond/pearl cause they are the only way to keep up with 4th generation (Battle Revolution sucks, no story mode and if u dont have D/P its actually plain random battle, which is just one of the many features of pokemon colosseum and XD, plus thats its wi-fi-able) besides it wasnt even released when D/P came out so couldnt have anything but that...the only other game i have on DS is Top Spin 2 (tennis) and its actually my bro's

EDIT: i posted quite a few names on page 188 but the best one was written on page 189 and its SSBD (Duel), so its the next nintendo option...if they do make a DS game thats the suitable name and they could give a new one for SSB4 (perhaps from the ones i posted) if not u can now call SSB4 SSBD
 

Ilex

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agidius said:
Probably has been mentioned on this thread, but...

Waluigi < Toad < GENO < Bowser Jr.

(Hides from flamers who don't appreciate Geno, or who took the time to read all 190 pages..)

---64'th post! I am one with the N64---
No it's more like:

Toad>Bowser Jr.>Waluigi>The Burger King>Geno
 

Del Money

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I dunno guys...as ****ing stupid as Waluigi is, he was recognized as at least an AT...it wouldn't be too far off to see him playable no matter how insignificant and pathetic he is.
 

SirKibble

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Good point, if there's going to be another Mario rep, Bowser Jr gets my vote (followed by a Baby Mario Bros Tag Team).
If we count the Baby Mario Bros. as a Mario rep, they'd get my vote. I think they'd probably count more as another Yoshi rep, though, since those are the games they really appear in.
 

FAILchion-

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The Final Countdown is now playing in your head.
I have a feeling Mario's gonna get tons of possible new reps. Bowser Jr., Waluigi, Daisy, Geno/Mallow, King Boo, Rosalina, etc. (These are all just guesses and assumptions.) But if any series needs more rep, it should be Donkey Kong, Metroid, and F-Zero, imo. For Donkey Kong, Dixie Kong and King K. Rool are staples. I definitely think they're gonna get in Smash 4. If we're lucky, we can also get Funky Kong, as well as another. I've heard Lanky Kong, Chunky Kong, Kiddy Kong, and even Cranky Kong. Metroid has tons of potential characters. I'm pro-Ridley, but I'm still confused as to how he'll work, since he's an airborne character, and he's huge (I know he can be scaled down, but to what limit?). And then there's the bounty hunter bunch. I haven't played Metroid much, so I can't say which ones are most important, but I commonly hear Sylux and Rundas. F-Zero has 3 who come to my mind: Black Shadow (I want him the most), Samurai Goroh, and DeathBorn. Black Shadow could very easily work like Ganondorf (truthfully, I want Sakurai to give Ganondorf's moveset to Black Shadow and give Ganondorf an entirely new moveset). I've heard Blood Falcon's getting some support, but he's already a costume. I really don't mind if he gets in, but what worries me is if he's gonna be a clone.
 

Agi

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But if any series needs more rep, it should be Donkey Kong, Metroid, and F-Zero, imo. For Donkey Kong, Dixie Kong and King K. Rool are staples. I definitely think they're gonna get in Smash 4. If we're lucky, we can also get Funky Kong, as well as another. I've heard Lanky Kong, Chunky Kong, Kiddy Kong, and even Cranky Kong. .
As long as Candy Kong doesn't get in...
Creeeeppyyy...
 

ness4life

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If we count the Baby Mario Bros. as a Mario rep, they'd get my vote. I think they'd probably count more as another Yoshi rep, though, since those are the games they really appear in.
I was thinking Partners in Time, but they'd work either way.

And for all of you Ridley doubters, Ridley could just hover a few inches off the ground (Mewtwo-style), or just be a ground character. He CAN walk, he just prefers not to. Ridley is way too important to the entire Metroid universe not to be a playable character. Sure, the bounty hunters would be cool, but Rundas seems to be the only one with a semi-unique moveset (and even he borrows from the IC's). Dark Samus would be more of a stretch than Ridley (it's a freakin' flying shapeshifting phazon entity!)

As for DK, K.Rool and Funky Kong. That's all that matters. Dixie would be fine, as long as she wasn't a clone. I'd prefer her as an alt costume to diddy. I just want Funky in the game in some fashion (a Donkey Kong alt would be awesome).
 

Ilex

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I have a feeling Mario's gonna get tons of possible new reps. Bowser Jr., Waluigi, Daisy, Geno/Mallow, King Boo, Rosalina, etc. (These are all just guesses and assumptions.) But if any series needs more rep, it should be Donkey Kong, Metroid, and F-Zero, imo. For Donkey Kong, Dixie Kong and King K. Rool are staples. I definitely think they're gonna get in Smash 4. If we're lucky, we can also get Funky Kong, as well as another. I've heard Lanky Kong, Chunky Kong, Kiddy Kong, and even Cranky Kong. Metroid has tons of potential characters. I'm pro-Ridley, but I'm still confused as to how he'll work, since he's an airborne character, and he's huge (I know he can be scaled down, but to what limit?). And then there's the bounty hunter bunch. I haven't played Metroid much, so I can't say which ones are most important, but I commonly hear Sylux and Rundas. F-Zero has 3 who come to my mind: Black Shadow (I want him the most), Samurai Goroh, and DeathBorn. Black Shadow could very easily work like Ganondorf (truthfully, I want Sakurai to give Ganondorf's moveset to Black Shadow and give Ganondorf an entirely new moveset). I've heard Blood Falcon's getting some support, but he's already a costume. I really don't mind if he gets in, but what worries me is if he's gonna be a clone.
How could they possibly make Ridley without him being a Charizard clone? He'd pretty much have the same moveset but would be slower than Charizard since he's hunched over and would match Pit in annoying sounds.

As for F-Zero, I heard someone say this and I'll repeat what they said. The characters aren't interesting or important to F-Zero, their cars are the only significant part of their character. Unlike Star fox whose characters are interesting and have actual ground missions, F-Zero characters really just don't matter whether they existed or not because it's just a racing game. I used to be pro-Black Shadow but I'm not anymore.
 

FAILchion-

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The Final Countdown is now playing in your head.
How could they possibly make Ridley without him being a Charizard clone? He'd pretty much have the same moveset but would be slower than Charizard since he's hunched over and would match Pit in annoying sounds.

As for F-Zero, I heard someone say this and I'll repeat what they said. The characters aren't interesting or important to F-Zero, their cars are the only significant part of their character. Unlike Star fox whose characters are interesting and have actual ground missions, F-Zero characters really just don't matter whether they existed or not because it's just a racing game. I used to be pro-Black Shadow but I'm not anymore.
Again, I don't play much Metroid, so I can't say what's in store for Ridley in Smash 4.

As for that, whenever I saw descriptions on Capt. Falcon, it says that after a race, he goes bounty hunting. I've kinda been hoping they'd make one, but I guess it would ruin the F-Zero franchise. But I'm still surprised with what Sakurai has managed to do with Capt. Falcon since '99.
 

Spire

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I do not support Bowser Jr at all. I've never liked the guy, and despite his relevance as Bowser's partner-in-crime, I would gladly settle for a different Mario villain - which we need more than another supporting character.

I'm thinking King Boo or Petey Piranha. I would love either, and you all know that both would sport ENTIRELY unique movesets. Behind them, Toad gets my vote.

Now, for Zelda. We have the Triforce: Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, and we also have the induction of Toon Link. IF Toon Link returns in the next Smash Bros, then we need another "Toon" rep, preferably Vaati. Toon Zelda and Toon Ganondorf are entirely unnecessary. When such a vast amount of people have complained about Toon Link being a clone of Link, why would they want ANOTHER clone? Honestly, I'm not a fan of Vaati, but he's a recurring villain of the Toon games and if he returns in a bigger title, I see him with a chance of getting a roster spot.

As for DK, we obviously need K. Rool. No others. As for Metroid, Ridley is out of the question. If you honestly think just because Ridley "appeared" to be sized down in the Melee intro, yet did not appear anywhere else in the game, that that blip of a cameo gives him the right to appear as a smasher, then you're incredibly delirious. Firstly, he really has nothing to do with Melee other than being a trophy. Secondly, Ridley's size must be accounted only by his appearance in the actual Metroid games - all of which he has been noticeably larger than Samus, and I'm not talking a foot or two. Thirdly, take a look at these screens:



Looks about the same size as Samus, right? Wrong. Check this out:



Look at Samus at the top of the screen. She is closer to the camera than he is, so obviously in the first two screens, the perspective does not do his size justice in that it misleads our perception of his size. He is huge in this scene, but it just did not seem that way.

So, please cut the Ridley support. He's an awesome character, don't get me wrong, but dumbing him down just for the sake of being a smasher? I'd rather not drain him of his epicness. It's bad enough to see him able to be taken down in SSE by the likes of Jigglypuff...
 

SirKibble

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I was thinking Partners in Time, but they'd work either way.
Ah, good point with that one.


What do you guys think about additional characters from third-parties? I mean, are we game for the addition of someone like Tails? Or should Sonic alone represent the Sonic the Hedgehog games? And if we were to add another rep, who should it be and why?

As far as Sonic goes, I think the best choices have got to be Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow.

I don't know my MGS, can't give any suggestions there.

And since Megaman's highly requested for SSB4, I think his second slot would be best filled by Zero, Protoman, or Bass.
 

ness4life

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Would you hate it if he made the game? Are you asking for less characters? I'd be happy with ANY character in Smash, just because that's another option to choose from. In fact, I'd be fine with just about anyone (especially Ridley).

EDIT SO NOT TO DOUBLE POST: I don't think (even though I really want) that smash will have any more than 1 3rd party character from each additional franchise. Nintendo wants to keep smash a nintendo game, despite what fans say.
 

Spire

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Ah, good point with that one.


What do you guys think about additional characters from third-parties? I mean, are we game for the addition of someone like Tails? Or should Sonic alone represent the Sonic the Hedgehog games? And if we were to add another rep, who should it be and why?

As far as Sonic goes, I think the best choices have got to be Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow.

I don't know my MGS, can't give any suggestions there.

And since Megaman's highly requested for SSB4, I think his second slot would be best filled by Zero, Protoman, or Bass.
Why add more reps from a 3rd party series? Guest characters are lucky if they stay. Link, Spawn, and (name doesn't come to mind) were cut after Soul Calibur 2; and odds are, Vader, Yoda, and Starkiller will be cut after SC4.

If we get any new 3rd party reps, it'll be Megaman or Bomberman. I personally dislike Megaman, so I'd take Bomberman and Black Mage, but that's not going to happen.
 

ness4life

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I agree with you, they'll just add other franchises, not new characters to each franchise. Maybe (just maybe), Sonic will stay, but with Snake's games over and done with, he may be out come time the next smash rolls along.

New franchises that I would love to see are:
Megaman -representing himself
bomberman -" "
Final Fantasy - Black Mage
Street Fighter -Ken/Ryu (Alts)
 

SirKibble

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Why add more reps from a 3rd party series? Guest characters are lucky if they stay. Link, Spawn, and (name doesn't come to mind) were cut after Soul Calibur 2; and odds are, Vader, Yoda, and Starkiller will be cut after SC4.

If we get any new 3rd party reps, it'll be Megaman or Bomberman. I personally dislike Megaman, so I'd take Bomberman and Black Mage, but that's not going to happen.
I don't know, I have a feeling we're going to keep Sonic and Snake. Maybe just me, but I don't think they'll get cut. Although I am also earnestly hoping for the addition of both Megaman and Bomberman.
 

ness4life

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Well, let's face it: obscure fire emblem characters aren't making it into the game.
Sorry, I was just going over the Make You Move thread, and am crying at how beautiful these movesets are for characters who don't stand a chance of being in the game.
*Sniff* "Hector, Jaffar, Ephraim, the world barely knew you."
 

SirKibble

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Well, let's face it: obscure fire emblem characters aren't making it into the game.
Sorry, I was just going over the Make You Move thread, and am crying at how beautiful these movesets are for characters who don't stand a chance of being in the game.
*Sniff* "Hector, Jaffar, Ephraim, the world barely knew you."
That thread is awesome and awful at the same time. There are so many well-done movesets in there, and 99% of those characters will never see the light of Smash.
 

ness4life

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Yup. Sometimes you wish that Sakurai would take a look at these forums once in a while and actually see the opinions of people who really care about this game.

OK, here's the plan: we fly to Japan, kidnap Sakurai, and replace him with a robot that does the forum's bidding!

Foolproof, right?
 

FAILchion-

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The Final Countdown is now playing in your head.
Ah, good point with that one.


What do you guys think about additional characters from third-parties? I mean, are we game for the addition of someone like Tails? Or should Sonic alone represent the Sonic the Hedgehog games? And if we were to add another rep, who should it be and why?

As far as Sonic goes, I think the best choices have got to be Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow.

I don't know my MGS, can't give any suggestions there.

And since Megaman's highly requested for SSB4, I think his second slot would be best filled by Zero, Protoman, or Bass.
If any other third-party characters get in, MegaMan is #1 on that list, followed by BomberMan. I'm all for Viewtiful Joe, but if I'm not mistaken, he's Capcom. Since MegaMan is the icon of Capcom (correct me if I'm wrong), he obviously gets in before he does. And about more Metal Gear and Sonic reps, I don't think so. I don't care much if they get more reps, but they're third-party, so it greatly weakens that chance. But if they were to get more reps, then I guess Raiden and Grey Fox would get in for Metal Gear, and Tails and Knuckles would get in for Sonic. If MegaMan appears in the next game, I assume Zero and Bass will be with him. And if Sonic appears in Smash 4, I want a new moveset. His moveset is just basically copied off by others, bit by bit. He only has like 2-3 unique moves. I know he has more moves in Sonic Battle, I wonder why they didn't take at least some of his moveset from there (I know that Sonic was confirmed late).

@Spire: All very good points. Well-said.
 

ChronoBound

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So, please cut the Ridley support. He's an awesome character, don't get me wrong, but dumbing him down just for the sake of being a smasher? I'd rather not drain him of his epicness. It's bad enough to see him able to be taken down in SSE by the likes of Jigglypuff...

Sorry, but can can't let you do that Spire./Wolf

Ridley can definitely be in Smash Bros.

Here is my argument as to why he deserves a spot in Smash Bros. 4:

Ridley:

Ridley was perhaps the most wanted character among Western Smash Bros. fans, only second to Sonic himself. Ridley is a re-occurring boss in the Metroid series, and is Samus’s arch-nemesis as well as the leader of the Space Pirates, whom are the main antagonists of the Metroid series. Ridley is extremely popular and is probably the most popular and well-known Metroid character outside of Samus herself.

Ridley was popularly requested for Melee, however, since the Metroid series was still dead during Melee’s development, he never really stood much of a chance of getting in (although his appearance in the Melee intro made many people believe that he would be playable, myself included). After Melee’s release, the Metroid series would see a massive resurrection. Seven Metroid games were released since Melee’s release to Brawl’s release. In contrast, only three games of the Metroid series had been released prior to Melee.

With a massive revival in the amount of Metroid games, a massive influx of fans to the series also occurred. Many of these new fans loved Ridley just as much as the old fans did, and thus Ridley’s fanbase quintupled. Many people felt confident that Ridley would be a shoe-in for Smash Bros. 3. There was no other Metroid character remotely even in the same league as Ridley in terms of popularity or importance, with the only one even being worthwhile being Dark Samus.

However, it turned out that Sakurai had other plans for everyone’s favorite space dragon and Metroid representation as a whole. Sakurai did what he does best and picks a character noone saw coming. Sakurai decided for Metroid’s second representative to be another Samus, a sexified Samus, Zero Suit Samus. Many Metroid fans such as myself were outraged that Samus had been turned into such a sex object, and even more so that he chose her over someone much more worthy such as Ridley or even Dark Samus.

However, there were some encouraging words on Sakurai’s explanation as to why he chose Zero Suit Samus. One was the infamous “I felt there were not enough female characters in Smash” (in which everyone misinterpreted as him going to put a ton of female newcomers in the game), and that Metroid had become one of Nintendo’s biggest series and he felt adding more characters for it would be the only way to do it justice (again, everyone mistinterpreted this as him saying he wanted to put in more Metroid characters after ZSS). Many people were convinced now that Ridley was a shoe-in for a playable spot.

However, Sakurai had different plans apparently. When the Ridley music update on the Dojo came up, the words “Boss Fight” were also associated with it. This made many people believe that Ridley would become a boss, and the movement that said “Ridley iz 2 big” grew massively. However, many people, including myself still retained hope that Sakurai had enough sense to resize Ridley like he did with many other characters in the Smash series, and make Ridley a playable character and thus give the Metroid series proper representation.

However, with the announcement that there would be boss fights for the game’s Adventure Mode, more people started to believe Ridley was a boss. The fight to change minds became drastic, and many Ridley fans became desperate (may I remind you what happened to R.I.D.L.E.Y. on SmashBoards). I myself wrote up a massive analysis for my ULTIMATE Analysis topic on why a playable Ridley could work and why he deserved a spot on the roster. However, it seemed as though Sakurai put his Adventure Mode ahead of playable characters. Ridley was a boss fight, and people would later fight him again as Meta Ridley. Many of the nay-sayers, rubbed this in, and us Ridley fans just had to suck it in and sighed that we now had to wait another half-decade for possibly the next Smash game in order to possibly play as Ridley.


Ridley's exclusion was one of the biggest mistakes regarding the roster, and hopefully he will be one of debut newcomers for whenever Smash 4 is announced. Ridley has a lot of moveset potential from his wicked tail, to his flaming breath, to his savage dragony fury. Ridley has many attacks from the seven Metroid games he has been in, leaving much to draw from in a moveset.

Also, let me get out why Ridley got in over Dark Samus in my roster. Ridley is the most important character in the Metroid series next to Samus. It was Ridley’’s attack that orphaned Samus, it was Ridley’’s command that the Space Pirates landed on Zebes, it was the discovery of Ridley’’s still being alive that made Samus land on Tallon IV, and it was Ridley that started the events in Super Metroid. Ridley and Samus have a long, bitter history, much like Mario and Bowser or Link and Ganondorf. Ridley is very popular and will likely show up in future Metroid games. Dark Samus is done. She likely won’t be appearing in any more Metroid games, and does not have anywhere near the amount of popularity as Ridley.

Many characters throughout the history of Smash have been resized. Bowser, Ganondorf, Pikachu, Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, all had their sizes adjusted to fit in with the other Smash fighters. Heck, take Olimar for example, he is only the size of a quarter, yet he was resized so that he was not a tiny being, despite one of the main tenets to the Pikmin series is being a tiny being in our “normal” sized world. However, no one has said that Olimar was ruined due to being resized. Ridley himself also barely needs to be resized if we are going by his Super Metroid incarnation. In Super Metroid, Ridley is only 1.5 times the size of Samus. Ridley can easily be resized to be the size of Ganondorf (who is the tallest character in the game), while in his Super Metroid positon (where he is hunched over).

The main tenet to Ridley's ferocity and the aura behind him is that Ridley’s tendency to show up when one has forgotten about him and the cruel nature of his attacks, not his size (if there is one Metroid boss that is famous for his size, it would be Kraid). Ridley is iconic for being a boss that shows up when one least expects him and for being an awesome boss fight in most of games he has been in. Really, I don’t think resizing Ridley would had any bearing on his ferocity. Look at Ganondorf and Mewtwo, they are both god-like beings in their respective series, yet they were placed into Smash as playable characters and few people complained about them being playable limited the sense of respect people had for them (however, there are/were people who complained about how terrible Mewtwo was in Melee, and how bad Ganondorf is in Brawl).

Ridley can retain much of his brutality through the right type of moveset. Ridley is a dragon with sharp claws, a pointed tail, and a mouth full of knife-like teeth. Obviously, there is a lot that can be derived from for a possible moveset for Ridley. Ridley also has the ability shoot fireballs out of his mouth, as well as create gusts by flapping his wings (or at least that was a new ability given to him in Brawl). Ridley’s anatomy and brutality has a lot of potential to bring a very unique moveset to the Smash Bros. roster.

Overall, I see no reason why not to add Ridley to Smash 4 other than the obligatory “LOL heez 2 bigg!!!!11". Ridley is all the Metroid series needs to adequately represent it in the series of Smash, and it was a big mistake to leave a character as important as Ridley was in such an important series out of the playable character roster. I think Sakurai or whoever directs Smash 4 should draw from some other bosses in the Metroid series for the boss fights for the Smash 4 Adventure Mode, and make Ridley playable. Ridley is looking to be the most requested character for Smash 4so to leave Ridley out of my roster, would be overly foolish and just plain dumb.

There are more pro-Ridley arguments I know of...

Anyway with that, I make my dramatic debut in this thread.
 

Ilex

Smash Ace
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Messages
572
Location
Okotoks, Alberta, Canada
ChronoBound said:
Bowser, Ganondorf, Pikachu, Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, all had their sizes adjusted to fit in with the other Smash fighters. Heck, take Olimar for example, he is only the size of a quarter, yet he was resized so that he was not a tiny being, despite one of the main tenets to the Pikmin series is being a tiny being in our “normal” sized world. However, no one has said that Olimar was ruined due to being resized.
That's because from the players perspective, all these characters seem normally sized. Olimar may be the size of a quarter and Kirby may be 8 inches tall but when we're playing their games we don't realize that because it's set to scale. In Metroid however, Ridley is huge even for the player's perspective and that's why he wouldn't work.

If you're mad that Ridley never made it in go play as Charizard since they're practically the same thing.
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
That's because from the players perspective, all these characters seem normally sized. Olimar may be the size of a quarter and Kirby may be 8 inches tall but when we're playing their games we don't realize that because it's set to scale. In Metroid however, Ridley is huge even for the player's perspective and that's why he wouldn't work.

If you're mad that Ridley never made it in go play as Charizard since they're practically the same thing.
Hold it/Phoenix Wright.

I'm not through yet.

One of my project partners (Drag0nBlade), has the following arguments negating that point:

Argument 1: “Ridley is to large and would not fit in the game” also known as “Ridley is to big”

Despite what is claimed in this argument, Ridley is not to big. Common examples are Ridley from the original metroid games as well as the official canon comic. Even if we limit him to his 3D appearances, many other characters have had their sizes changed within the Smash Series. Olimar, Pikachu, Kirby, Dedede, Meta-knight have all been enlarged to fit into the game. Bowser, who generally is known for his size in the main mario line, was chosen to have one of his smaller forms from the spin-off games. Smash is not afraid to mess with peoples sizes.

Ridley from Metroid.
http://www.emulationgalaxy.co.yu/images/edit/metroid/metroid_1.gif

Comic images Posted by Nyc48
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/nyc48/ridleysize.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/nyc48/ridleysize2.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/nyc48/zzsmkup.jpg
http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/mzm/manga/2.08/MetroidManga2-07.jpg


Argument 2: “Relative size is what matters. Samus is in and because of this, Ridley's size is already established as being huge.”

This argument is trying to say that all characters relative sizes are kept intact in the smash series. An example of this is the Mario characters. Bowser is the largest, followed by Peach, Luigi and Mario being the shortest. This is always kept constant. Since Samus is already six feet and Ridley is huge compared to her, he cannot be shrunk down. This is the argument that is usually proposed. Not only is this argument disprove by the fact that they are fake characters, it can also be disproved with Pikachu and Mewtwo from Melee. Pikachu's Canon height is 1'04'' while Mewtwo's Canon height is 6'07''. If you look at the 3D games, you can see that this is their heights. Now look at melee. This is clearly not the case. Mewtwo is smaller and Pikachu is definitely taller. Thus the Relative size argument is disproven.

Combat vid comparing Mewtwo and Pikachu's height in Melee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si4hUNySZV8


Argument 3: “Ridley would look stupid small.”

This, no matter how anyone looks at it, is an opinion at its core. Many people believe he looks fine smaller, while some believe he looks silly. This is up to personal preference and is not a good enough reason to exclude him from being playable in future games.

Argument 4: “His proportions are to irregular and would not work shrunken down.”

This argument mainly consists of using Ridley's skinniness and length as means of excluding him from being playable. Most people point to his neck and Many fans have also tried to make him smaller in an effort to have a visual reference for people to see that he would work and that his proportions are not skewed. Examples of this are listed below.

LinkIII_IsBack posted the following.
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4043/ridleyandsamus1cg4.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8972/ridleyandsamus2xt1.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4956/ridleyandsamus3fe1.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8645/playaberidleyls8.png
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7395/playableridley2qb1.png
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/263/playableridley3xv8.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6995/playableridley4ps2.jpg

Argument 5: “Smaller ridley in metroid does not count because of system limitations.”

This argument also includes the “Metroid was overridden by Zero mission” Argument. What this argument is trying to do is say that because Metroid was released on the nintendo, Ridley was only small because of system limitations. Because of the release of Zero mission, this fact is drilled even more. The thing to remember is that the system limitations also apply to other games, mainly pokemon. One cannot count the Handheld pokemon games and act like those sizes matter and then discredit the original Metroid. Both have smaller sprites and characters from their original heights because of system limitations. It is best to just use Canon sizes, or at least the 3D canon game models. Pokemon and Metroid have been put into 3D. As it can be seen, the pokemon models have incorrect sizes in melee. Because of this, it is shown that Smash messes with the sizes and ridley cannot be excluded because some consider his smaller form negligent because of system limitations.


Argument 6: “They have to use the newest version of characters. (IE Legend of Zelda example.) Because of this, Meta-ridley would be the one to make it playable, and because of his wingspan and out of proportion limbs, be would not be able to be resized.

There are two problems with this claim. One is that Ridley's limbs and wings are very skinny. While Meta-Ridley does have huge wings, it is safe to note that Mewtwo's Dimensions were also skewed in Melee. He appears fatter than he should be. The other point is using the most current character model. This is false by looking at Samus. Samus is based on her Super Metroid look, not the prime series. Other examples is updating the looks for Retro characters, Sheiks new design that was submitted, and even toon link (who is not cell shaded) Since this is true, they can use normal Ridley if they wanted to.

Here is a list of characters, with pictures that show they did not use the newest models from the games.
---
Wolf from Command
http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/810/810757/05_WolfToonForm_1186378498.jpg

Wolf from Assault
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4417/wolfev8.jpg

Wolf from brawl
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/hidden12/hidden12.jpg

Looks like they used more influence from the Assault version than the command version.
---

Last SF game was command.
Falco looked like this
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/thumb/5/5a/FalcoCommand.jpg/200px-FalcoCommand.jpg

In brawl, he looks like this
http://www.wikicheats.com/images/0/09/Smash_Bros_Brawl_Falco.jpg
-------------------
MGS's last game (keeping that the designs were finalized before 2006) was Metal Gear Acid 2
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cc/SnakeMGA2.PNG/175px-SnakeMGA2.PNG

If you want to argue Nintendo Only
http://www.gameguru.in/images/metal-gear-solid-twin-snakes-1.jpg

His look in brawl
http://ssbb.teamhijack.com/images/characters/snakeprofile.jpg
-------------------

Here are three examples of where Sakurai did not use the newest models and took creative liberties with the characters designs. If it can happen with them, it can happen with ridley.


Argument 7: “He is an unimportant character and does not deserve a place in smash”

This argument mainly shows peoples little knowledge about the Metroid Series. It is stated in the offical Canon Manga that Ridley Killed Samus' Parents when she was a child. He practically started the Metroid Series. It has also been said that He is the leader of the space pirates. The last thing to note is that he is the most reoccurring boss in the series. I recommend reading this wiki page on the subject. Don't like Wiki? Your loss.

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Ridley

Argument 8: “Diamond/Peral have many official canon sizes for Barboach. This means Pikachu can grow from 1ft 4in. To over 3ft. Thus showing that using pokemon to discredit relative size is invalid.”

This argument is attacking one of the pro-ridley groups points than Ridley himself. Try and disprove one of your claims, and then he is an invalid character again. The reason why this does not work is because one of the main points is that mewtwo is also shrunk down in size. There is only one mewtwo canonically and his height is supposed to be constant. Since he was shrunk down in size, the argument still has a leg to stand on. One could try and argue biology and on how reproduction and size is generated in real animals, but Pokemon is a game and thus fake. The way they mate, the fact that they only take physical traits from only one parent as well as other things makes it silly to argue logical biology. It appears to be silly to some that to justify the absence of ridley having a chance, an anti-ridley person has to say that the Pikachu in SSE is a special Pikachu that was bread so his size was good enough to fight in brawl. Feels silly. Best to say that the programmers need a larger pikachu to use and just grew his size. People need to remember that this is a game.

Note 1:
One thing many need to remember is that the smash bros series in not canon to the original series. Proof of this is the many moveset errors (Ganondorf, Ness) and Final smash liberties (Luigi's Negative zone, Game and Watch Octopus). So keeping strict to canon is not really happening. Some say that because this is a fighting game, and for most, this series is their first fighting appearance, they have no canon movesets. This is silly because the characters movesets were pulled from their respective games. Here is a bunch of links to prove it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTfk3-I4UJg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP7DqAC7Ne0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOMXw8MmO9o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIyjilTlSv4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be1W2n0vW1I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bva1g00xdcg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_to3eKGJISg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNfGTx-q5Os
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQwIY8AISZc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noNXp44bmOs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJe6IoiD9Ys

Note 2:
Sakurai did shrink Ridley in the SSE boss fight. Look at the Meta-ridley fight in SSE and than compare it to the normal meta-ridley fight from Metroid prime. They have different sizes.

Meta-ridley from MP.
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=metaridleyofficalwebsitsh7.jpg

Meta-Ridlet from Brawl
http://www.wikicheats.com/images/0/0d/Smash_Bros_Brawl_Meta_Ridley_2.jpg
 

ness4life

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
376
Location
In the apartment next to Sakurai. Friday is Pizza
Wow, Chronobound, very flashy entrance. Although I completely support Ridley as a PC, I think that for the survival of the integrity of this thread, we should stay away from such hot-button issues like Ridley, or Geno. We don't want this thread to turn into a stupid flame-fest populated by the former members of R.I.D.L.E.Y and the Ridley haters.

So please-and I'm saying this to everyone- don't mention the R-word. For the thread.
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
Wow, Chronobound, very flashy entrance. Although I completely support Ridley as a PC, I think that for the survival of the integrity of this thread, we should stay away from such hot-button issues like Ridley, or Geno. We don't want this thread to turn into a stupid flame-fest populated by the former members of R.I.D.L.E.Y and the Ridley haters.

So please-and I'm saying this to everyone- don't mention the R-word. For the thread.
Fine. I myself was actually saving this for a future topic. I have many more analyses for other characters. I am tired of being complacent about a lot of the nonsense that is going on this site since my absence.

Also, I am glad you enjoyed my entrance. I hope everyone enjoys my presence in this topic for now on. I have a lot of in-depth insight, that is second to none.
 

ness4life

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
376
Location
In the apartment next to Sakurai. Friday is Pizza
No, thank you for contributing, and you are preaching to the choir here. I'd love any character to be in smash (minus candy kong *shudders*), I mean you have really well-put arguments, and good arguments tend to attract idiots who think that saying the same thing over and over again is a good method of debate. So please, go on, and just ignore the anti-ridley morons (wow, that's a lot of irony in this post).
 
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