[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[mantlecore77]

I say we keep Sonic in the roster. (I mean honestly Sonic vs Mario=yay!)

Yeah I agree with this completely. Why not bring some Sonic universe characters in, too? I'm not gonna name people and get flamed, but you know, it could happen.

 

[ness4life]

I like your idea, sorry about my little "outburst".
Maybe Smash 4 could have a "rivalry" mode, where ... oh wait... this is in event match.
Well, I just hope that Smash 4 does something better in terms of story than SSE. Your idea of personalizing the story mode to each character would be great, and definitely give fanboys everywhere eternal happiness.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

^^ love the story idea.

Like Mario goes through mario stages. And kirby goes through kirby stages. And etc. Nice!!

 

[Black Mantis]

All I know is that no matter what happens they do these 3 things:
1.Keep ROB
2.Throw out Snake
3.Put in Ryu

 

[Chief Mendez]

So you may have more posts than most of the people on this forum, but that doesn't mean you can just stomp all over the other posters.

YES IT DOES, I OWN ALL OF YOU

"I don't want Lloyd in the game." -Mendez

QFT

Stop whining, seriously.

But I don't wanna'!

You made me waste my 300th post. ****.

Success!

And then FINALLY, another 1-P mode would be called "Story"...
Depending on who you have unlocked in the game, more and more stories would unlock. People would have their own little adventures that would reflect their series...

In other words, sort of like expanded Event Matches?

Each character's "Story" level(s) would understandable be only a few stages long, as making modes as long as SSE, or even Melee Adventure Mode for each character would take a ridiculously long time to make.

So building off your example: Link's Story would have a short cutscene showing Ganon capturing Zelda and taking over Hyrule. A fairy shows up and tells Link about it, and he sets off to put an end to Ganon.

Then Stage 1 would be him traversing the Lost Woods to find the Master Sword. Stage 2 would be exploring a generic Temple (i.e. Hyrule Temple, Temple of the Goddess, etc.) to find the Triforce of Courage, and Stage 3 would be climbing Ganon's Tower to save Zelda. He's have a health system, and he'd fight Zelda-specific enemies and bosses at the end of each level.

It'd still be alot of work, though. So much so that this might be the only "Adventure" mode in SSB4. No SSE sequel or anything similar, as making universe-specific levels, enemies, and cutscenes for over 35 characters is a very large undertaking.

 

[AnAardvark]

Well. Off subject, but here's an idea...

What if, instead of making only ONE adventure mode like Subspace Emissionary, there would be multiple quests for different parties?

For example.

There would be "1-P" Classic Mode. "1-P" Adventure Mode, but in this new adventure mode, there are no difficulty settings. It's like a solo-mode game, where it just gets tougher as you go on. Sure noobs and stuff wouldn't be so good, but that's the point: get better. This adventure mode would wrap in the entire SSB universe, as always.

And then FINALLY, another 1-P mode would be called "Story"...
Depending on who you have unlocked in the game, more and more stories would unlock. People would have their own little adventures that would reflect their series...

ex. Link. We all know Link, the good ol' Hero of Hyrule in green. Well, in his story, he basically has to save Hyrule from Ganondorf and everything. It would platform and everything but would wrap in from the LOZ universe and instead of simply having to beat people up and get KO'd if you lose, you would instead have hit points like in the LOZ series.
I know it sounds kinda lame and simple and hard-to-make for Nintendo, but seriously, if every universe had their own side-story adventure, the 1-P mode wouldn't get so boring so quickly for a lot of people.

I think the "Story" idea would be pretty cool, sort of like a more elaborate version of SSBM's Adventure mode, since it had little bits and pieces of everyone's story. And it would be hard to make, but compared to what they did with SSE, this isn't a HUGE problem, it just would be difficult for them to format each story into a game such as SSB.

As for the hit-points suggestion, do you mean like Stamina? Because if not, wouldn't this be like Twilight Princess or something? You just run around as Link, fighting monsters, unlocking more to the story, and have the occasional boss battle?

 

[Agi]

An overlooked part: Masterpieces. If those stay in, you HAVE to be able to have more time on them. Throw in Earthbound and Fire Emblem, DK country, maybe G&W games. Maybe, instead of a time limit, you could have an objective to complete. I was disappointed by how short of time we had to play with the classics...

 

[ness4life]

I dunno, the masterpieces were alright, but it was all just a big commercial for Nintendo...
I'm not saying throw them out, but just give us a longer playthrough. Oh, and 3rd party masterpieces should be included.

 

[AnAardvark]

EarthBound should definitely be in there, TRUE CLASSIC. And yeah, they should just make it like an objective demo instead of time demo, because you barely get to go through the intro on some of the games.

 

[Deleted member]

I want a Fire Emblem (Preferly the original) master piece dam it!

 

[Chief Mendez]

An overlooked part: Masterpieces. If those stay in, you HAVE to be able to have more time on them. Throw in Earthbound and Fire Emblem, DK country, maybe G&W games. Maybe, instead of a time limit, you could have an objective to complete. I was disappointed by how short of time we had to play with the classics...

Personally I really didn't care about the feature, but that's because I already own most of those games in one form or another.

But it obviously doesn't take much effort to build in the feature, and if it helps people who aren't as crazily obsessed experienced with Nintendo's past, then yeah, bring em' on. I don't know about "objectives" in them, as the point of them is to give new players a taste, so they'll go and download the full game.

They should be partial games, instead of timed demos. Like, Ocarina would turn off automatically after you defeat Gohma in the Deku Tree, you actually get to finish a race in F-ZERO, and StarFox would quit out after you got through the Asteroid Belt.

Also, just a note: Earthbound and Fire Emblem were in the Japanese version of Brawl.

 

[SirKibble]

On a different note, it'd be kind of nice if you could replay a certain part of a match. Say you had a five minute match, but something really cool happened in it part-way through. It'd be nice if you could clip it and still save a replay. It would also be nice if you could review certain KOs. Maybe just select them on the results screen and it would show you some of what led up to it, and then the KO. Too many times I've had this conversation:

"Wait, what was the second kill you got on me?"
"Um... I dunno, man. I can't remember..."

Or better yet:

"What? How did the CPU get 5 kills?!"
"Geez, man, I don't know. I swear I killed you all three times..."

 

[Chief Mendez]

On a different note, it'd be kind of nice if you could replay a certain part of a match. Say you had a five minute match, but something really cool happened in it part-way through. It'd be nice if you could clip it and still save a replay. It would also be nice if you could review certain KOs. Maybe just select them on the results screen and it would show you some of what led up to it, and then the KO. Too many times I've had this conversation:

"Wait, what was the second kill you got on me?"
"Um... I dunno, man. I can't remember..."

Or better yet:

"What? How did the CPU get 5 kills?!"
"Geez, man, I don't know. I swear I killed you all three times..."

As is, I think Brawl "records" matches by just repeating all your button inputs. There's no actual video recording involved, it's all technical. So in that manner, "editing" a replay would be kind of difficult.

Unless I'm mistaken, you can edit replays of matches in Halo 3. So really, the only reason Brawl doesn't let you do this is because the Wii has no HDD. But that said, we should expect this ability in SSB4, assuming it's on a "Wii 2" with a decent HDD (at least 20 GB, but hopefully around 100 by that time).

It'd make combo videos way easier to make.

 

[SirKibble]

As is, I think Brawl "records" matches by just repeating all your button inputs. There's no actual video recording involved, it's all technical. So in that manner, "editing" a replay would be kind of difficult.

Unless I'm mistaken, you can edit replays of matches in Halo 3. So really, the only reason Brawl doesn't let you do this is because the Wii has no HDD. But that said, we should expect this ability in SSB4, assuming it's on a "Wii 2" with a decent HDD (at least 20 GB, but hopefully around 100 by that time).

It'd make combo videos way easier to make.

Yeah, it wouldn't work in Brawl, but for SSB4, something like that ought to be easy enough.

 

[AnAardvark]

Personally I really didn't care about the feature, but that's because I already own most of those games in one form or another.

But it obviously doesn't take much effort to build in the feature, and if it helps people who aren't as crazily obsessed experienced with Nintendo's past, then yeah, bring em' on. I don't know about "objectives" in them, as the point of them is to give new players a taste, so they'll go and download the full game.

They should be partial games, instead of timed demos. Like, Ocarina would turn off automatically after you defeat Gohma in the Deku Tree, you actually get to finish a race in F-ZERO, and StarFox would quit out after you got through the Asteroid Belt.

Also, just a note: Earthbound and Fire Emblem were in the Japanese version of Brawl.

Dang, too bad I couldn't get the Japanese version of Brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally I really didn't care about the feature, but that's because I already own most of those games in one form or another.

But it obviously doesn't take much effort to build in the feature, and if it helps people who aren't as crazily obsessed experienced with Nintendo's past, then yeah, bring em' on. I don't know about "objectives" in them, as the point of them is to give new players a taste, so they'll go and download the full game.

They should be partial games, instead of timed demos. Like, Ocarina would turn off automatically after you defeat Gohma in the Deku Tree, you actually get to finish a race in F-ZERO, and StarFox would quit out after you got through the Asteroid Belt.

Also, just a note: Earthbound and Fire Emblem were in the Japanese version of Brawl.

*sigh* its times like this that i wish that i was Japanese

 

[Chief Mendez]

Dang, too bad I couldn't get the Japanese version of Brawl.

Fire Emblem being a Japanese-exclusive makes sense, as it hasn't ever been translated, and it's a bit of a stretch to think Brawl's devs would take the extra time to do so.

But I have absolutely no idea why Earthbound was left out. Seriously. It's bad enough Mother fans over here have been left so far out in the cold...it just seems cruel to take away the one game we do have.

 

[Chris Lionheart]

Dang, too bad I couldn't get the Japanese version of Brawl.

Seconded... I would love to play the first FE.

 

[Deleted member]

Fire Emblem being a Japanese-exclusive makes sense, as it hasn't ever been translated, and it's a bit of a stretch to think Brawl's devs would take the extra time to do so.

But I have absolutely no idea why Earthbound was left out. Seriously. It's bad enough Mother fans over here have been left so far out in the cold...it just seems cruel to take away the one game we do have.

I have a feeling ur trying to offend me for being stupid.

(although ur logic is logical)

 

[Chief Mendez]

I have a feeling ur trying to offend me for being stupid.

Well, are you offended?

Seconded... I would love to play the first FE.

Fire Emblem DS is a remake of the first game, so that's probably the closest we'll get to playing the game.

 

[Chris Lionheart]

Origin

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn

Path of Radiance

The Black Knight serves as a major antagonist in both Fire Emblem games he appears in. Despite being Ike's greatest rival, he is not the final boss of either game, rather appearing as a very late-game boss in both games, each time initiating a duel with Ike.

The Black Knight first appears to order Petrine to return to base, but his role becomes much more serious soon afterwards. In fact, before the next level even starts, The Black Knight gains his role as Ike's mortal enemy when he slays Ike's father right before the young mercenary's eyes and nearly kills Ike as well. The Knight is later revealed to be invunerable to all attacks not from weapons blessed by the goddess, Ashera. The only weapons capable of hurting him due to this are his own sword Alondite, and its twin, Ragnell, which the he gave to Ike in order to witness Ike's full strength.

The Black Knight was defeated by Ike at Fort Pinell, which collasped immediately following the battle, but the ebon-clad man's body was nowhere to be found.

Radiant Dawn

The Black Knight, long thought to be dead, appears out of nowhere to save Micaiah and then liberate Daein from Begnion's oppressive rule. The Knight appears several more times in the game in order to aid Micaiah's forces.

The Black Knight makes his final appearance in the Tower of Ashera, where he holds a final duel against Ike. Ike defeats him and the dark-armored general finally meets his end.

Spoilers

The Black Knight was a student of Ike's father. The true reason behind him murdering Ike's father was that he wanted to surpass his master. Upon learning that Greil cut the tendons in his sword hand, the Black Knight was relieved that his master was not truly so pathetically weak and turned his gaze towards Ike, who was also taught by Greil, to be his path to surpassing his master.

The Black Knight is a servant and friend of Sephiran, a prominent Begnion senator. This is why he stays his hand when Sephiran appears to rescue Ranulf from him.

The source of his incredible attack speed (despite wearing heavy armor) and strength is his part-Laguz blood. It is not known what type of Laguz his ancestor was, but that does not change the fact that he is a branded.

And now for the big one.... The Black Knight's true identity is... Zelgius

Height - Tall
The BK is about a head (his helmet) taller than Ganondorf.

Width - Wide
The BK is about the width of Ganondorf in Brawl.

Weight - Like A Stone
The BK is twice as heavy as Ganondorf!

Walking Speed - Abysmal
Despite being able to attack quickly, the BK can't walk very quickly. In fact, he walks twice as slow as Brawl's Ganondorf. His approach must suck, right?

Dash Speed - Slightly Less Abysmal
Even while dashing, the BK moves at a pathetic speed... only very slightly faster than his walking speed. Geez... how will this guy defeat anyone with a projectile?

First Jump - Abysmal
The BK can only jump half of an average jump.

Second Jump - Abysmal
No better than the first.

Falling Speed - Very Fast
Pk-ow: Smash isn't realistic. Everything falls at the same speed.
Spadefox: Glad to know that feathers and iron fall at the same speed.

Let's just say the BK isn't the feathers in this... he falls about the same speed as Ganondorf.

Traction - Perfect
Due to how slow he moves, it is impossible for the BK to trip except through outside means, such as Diddy's banannas, and turns very easily. This doesn't help his mobility much though.

Dodges - Excellent
The BK has surprisingly amazing reflexes despite all that heavy armor. This gives him some of the game's best dodges.

Crouch - Yes
The BK has a crouch on par with that of Ganondorf and with an even better "teabagging" noise! (Warlord: YES!)

Crawl - No
You try crawling in that armor.

Wall Jump - No
Again.

Wall Cling - No
... Again...

Glide - No
ROFLMFAO!

Standing Pose

The Black Knight stands tall and intimidating- almost motionless. His sword his carried in his right arm, which is at his side.

Idle Pose

The Black Knight randomly taps his sword on the ground or lifts it up to his shoulder and rests it there briefly. He looks bored at the pitiful fight going on.

Walk Pose

The Black Knight walks forward very slowly. He has a very intimidating air about him.

Dash Pose

The Black Knight's sword now drags on the ground behind him as he takes larger steps. He is still very slow and intimidating.

Jump Poses

Same as Ganondorf.

Shield

The Black Knight plants his sword into the ground and a shield of red energy, being exactly the same as a typical bubble shield appears.

Sidestep

The Black Knight veers slightly to the side and makes an effortless parry. Extremely fast dodge.

Roll

The Black Knight vanishes into thin air (warp powder?) and reappears in the direction he rolled. Unlike other uses of warp powder, he takes no damage and the dodge is about identical in effectiveness to Mewtwo's roll.

Airdodge

The Black Knight veers to the side quickly and effortlessly. Very fast dodge.

[/CENTER]

Neutral Special - Warp Powder

When you press the input, the Black Knight pulls out a bag of warp powder. At no charge, only a little dust is in it, only allowing the BK to teleport a short distance (a Battlefield Platform). However, if you charge the move, he will proceed to add more warp powder to the satchel at a rate of about 1/4th of a bag every half second. Every 1/4th of a bag of powder = 1/4th of Final Destination travelled. The charge of this move can be stored. Upon release of the B button (without cancel), the BK will vanish into thin air for a duration of 1/4th of a second, suffering no lag, during which time you can control the direction he warps (with forwards being the default on the ground and upwards being the default in the air.) No ending lag. The BK takes 1...9% damage (+2% per 1/4th bag) due to the powder draining his strength. Does not leave the Black Knight helpless.

This is the main reason why the Black Knight does not epicly fail at getting around the stage, despite his lack of movement. Through use of this move, the BK can approach, escape, set up surprise attacks, etc., but at a cost to him. Most importantly, perhaps, this serves as his main recovery.

{1...9% self damage}

Side Special - Alondite Wave

The BK swings his sword downwards using one hand, releasing a shockwave of pure light. This wave travels slightly faster than Link's boomerang over the distance of 1/4th of Final Destination before dissipating. It goes right through everything, even solid objects, such as characters and obstacles, dealing 7% to anything that is damageable and continuing along it's path. The move can be aimed diagonally as well, in a manner similar to Link's boomerangs. Medium lag on both ends. Note that this projectile is priority neutral, as everything goes right through it without affecting it.

This is the Black Knight's main projectile. It is very useful should the Black Knight need to camp or force an approach.

{7%}

Up Special - Warp Bomb

The Black Knight pulls out a satchel of warp powder and throws it in a manner much like Yoshi's Up Special, having the same lag and throwing distances and arcs. Upon hitting something (character, item, projectile, trap, and any obstacle that isn't a part of the stage), the struck object vanishes for 1/4th of a second. During this time, the Black Knight remains still and you can decide which direction the object is warped (the warped distance is about 2 Battlefield Platforms, as long as there is space to be warped to). The struck object takes 5% damage (if applicable), due to the object draining the user's strength, but this does not refresh recoveries due to the damage not coming from any apparent outside force. Also, if the bag is struck, it will burst, releasing warp powder everywhere within a BF platform's radius and having the warp effect on anything in that reach.

This move functions as a gimping and spacing tool, as well as a secondary projectile and an anti-projectile. It can even counter traps.

{5%}

Down Special - Warp Counter

The BK pulls out a bag of warp powder upon pressing the button input. This is a counter-type move with frames much like those of Ike's counter. If struck during the counter frames of this move, the BK will warp behind the inflicter of the damage (works on both attacks and projectiles) and place his sword by their head, causing them to freeze in terror. This allows the Black Knight to use a free attack on them, as the foe cannot escape until they are attacked by the BK (having super armor against everything but the BK's attack) or until a second has passed. The BK takes the damage, but not the knockback, of the attack that struck him, as well as an additional 7% from the warp powder.

This is the Black Knight's secondary means of approach. This move alone makes the BK an anti-camping god when used properly. It can also be used to help set up finishers. Just don't overdo it, as that 7% self damage per use tends to be painful.

{7% self harm}

A - Slash

The BK slashes diagonally downwards from his right to his left. Deals 3% and flinching with some slight hitstun. Great reach. Good disjointed priority. A bit slow to start up but no ending lag.

Useless by itself, but it comboes into two more hits.

{3%}

A , A - Reverse Slash

The BK reverses his slash from the ending of the first one, slashing diagonally upwards from left to right. Deals 3% and low upwards knockback (kills starting at 300%) with some slight hitstun. Great reach. Good disjointed priority. Low beginning lag with no ending lag.

Unlike the first hit, this attack actually has some speed. Being a followup doesn't help it very much, however. Combo into the third hit if you are confident that the foe will not escape and punish you.

{3%}

A, A, A - Critical

From where the BK left off on the second slash, he holds his sword before his face briefly and then lets out a powerful attack, swinging his sword from behind him (sword touching the floor) to above and in front of him in one wide arc. Deals 8% and good upwards knockback (kills starting at 110%). Has a medium start up and a above average end lag. Great reach. Good disjointed priority.

The finisher to the BK's A combo is actually one of his best finishers should he manage to land it. It also makes his combo finally deal some decent damage, but it can be easy for the foe to escape.

{8%}

Dash Attack - Tear

The BK uses a quick burst of energy to run at an actually normal pace for about half of a BF platform. At the end of this, the BK uses the momentum to stab forwards, dealing 4% and good hitstun. If this attack connects, he will follow up by performing a move comparable to Roy's Up B (only going upwards half the distance), dealing 4%, and finishing the combo by using a downwards falling slash much like the second half of Ike's Aether for another 4% and low horizontal knockback (kills starting at 250%). Interestingly, the last hit can spike if the foe is off the edge (which would require precise placement). This move has low beginning lag, a considerable duration (about 3/4 second) and low ending lag. Great reach. Good disjointed priority. You can affect the area where he uses the final part of the attack somewhat by using the control stick before he uses the falling slash, even allowing you to use the attack backwards, though, oddly, the character(s) that have been comboed by the first two attacks will still be caught in the third hit.

This is a good alternative to the BK's A combo. It deals only 2% less than a full A combo, comboes into other moves more readily, can spike under the right conditions, and is quicker to start up. It is very easy to punish if whiffed, however.

{4%, 4%, 4%}

Side Tilt - Checked-Hand

The BK "checks his hand" as he swings his sword downwards, making for a non-lethal blow. Deals 4% and a weak set knockback (half of a BF platform). Low beginning lag and ending lag. Good reach, comparable to that of the last hit of Ike's A combo. Good disjointed priority. Deals a fair amount of hitstun.

This can be seen as a much more suitable damage racker than his A combo and, like the Dash Attack, comboes readily into other moves. This is a useful lead into the Dash Attack, in fact. The move is also a much more viable followup from the second hit of his A combo than the third hit of his A under most circumstances.

{4%}

Up Tilt - Blade Raise

The BK lifts his blade above his head in a similar manner to Ike's Up Tilt, though more slowly, having medium beginning lag as he does so. He keeps the blade above his head for about 1/3 of a second. The blade creates an extremely high priority defense towards attacks that strike the BK from above, also dealing 6% and a weak set upwards knockback (about 1/3rd of a BF platform) with good hitstun. This move has low ending lag. The attack can be cancelled early if need be. An interesting property of the attack is that you can angle it left and right, making him hold the sword diagonally. While this shrinks the protective hitbox some, it allows you to change the direction of knockback.

The main use of this move is for defense against airborne foes and/or attacks that would strike the BK from above but the move also has a reasonable use as a combo tool. One example of a simple combo from this move would be to angle it in the direction you are facing and cancel the attack as soon as the foe is struck. Follow up with a Side Special aimed upwards (it will go diagonally upwards). If timed right, this combo can do a nice 13% if the foe has not used DI to prevent it. Another option would be to use the BK's up special before hitting them with the Side Special.

{6%}

Down Tilt - Hamstring

The BK performs a quick diagonally downwards slash in the direction he is facing, clearly aiming to cut the foe's leg. This attack has low lag on both ends. Deals a mere 3% (guess that attack didn't have much force to it), but causes the foe to trip. Rather average reach, as only the angle drastically lowers the hitbox of the sword. Good disjointed priority.

Like the BK's other tilts, this move serves as a great combo starter, though this one is also useful as a lead into moves such as the BK's Side Smash, which are slow but powerful. An example of an effective combo starting with the Down Tilt is Down Tilt -> A -> A , A -> Side Tilt -> Dash Attack.

{3%}

Side Smash - Luna

The BK holds Alondite with both hands and swings it upwards sort of like a golf club, forming a blue crescent moon in front of him. This move has 2 hits: 1) The slash itself. Deals 7% and very high hitstun with great reach and good disjointed priority. 2) The crescent deals 5...15% with great upwards knockback (KOs starting at 100%). Great reach. Has the same priority as Lucario's aura. The crescent lingers for about 1/4th of a second after being completed. Note that foes struck by the slash will also be struck by the crescent immediately afterwards, but foes can come into contact with the crescent while it lingers without having to be hit by the slash. This move has fairly high lag on both ends.

This move should be pretty straight-forward. It is a powerful finishing move that provides good frontal defense.

{7% , 5...15%}

Up Smash - Eviscerate

The Black Knight turns to face the camera and unleashes a very powerful downwards slash from above his head to the ground. The force of this slash is truly amazing, dealing a massive 20...29% damage and high upwards knockback (kills starting at 80%). It also creates a spread of shattered rocks similar to those of Charizard's Side Special (in fact, having roughly the same size) that strikes foes in the foreground for 12...21% damage and great upwards knockback (kills starting at 110%). This move has medium beginning lag and very high ending lag (as the BK must unlodge his sword from the ground). The upwards reach of the attack is great (roughly the same as Ike's Up Smash), but the hitbox is unfortunately thin, having no horizontal slash at all, the only width being created by the sword. Good disjointed priority.

The use of this attack is usually as a KO move, though it can be used as a combo ender (a good lead into this attack would be the Up Tilt), though this is situational. If whiffed, the foe will have a perfect opportunity to punish the BK... and this attack is very easy to whiff with that thin hitbox it has.

{20...29%} {12...21%}

Down Smash - "Here, use this blade."

While the Black Knight charges this move, his hand is on a secondary sheathe and he says "Here, use this blade" (blade being said when the charge is complete). Upon release of A, he will throw this secondary sword, which looks like a more generic steel version of Ragnell/Alondite, presumably a third (non-canonical) sister sword to the aforementioned blades. The thrown sword outprioritizes all projectiles and travels 1 BF platform ... 1/2 of Battlefield at a very fast speed and deals 9...18% and medium...good upwards knockback (kills starting at 150...125%) to foes who are struck by it. When the sword comes into contact with the ground (or a platform), it will become stuck just like Link's Dair. The BK or a foe can pull the sword out of the ground and use it as a weapon. This sword will act much like a slow-but powerful version of the energy sword, dealing 3% more than the Energy Sword but having a good bit more ending lag on its attacks. The sword will also increase the weight and reduce the movement speed of its wielder by 25% each due to it's sheer weight. This move has high beginning lag and low ending lag. Only one of these swords can be on the field at one time, the move only throwing out a generic sword that is just like an Energy Sword but shorter in reach when the larger blade is already in existence. The primary sword deals 7% damage when used as a throwing projectile. The secondary swords deal 5% when used as a throwing projectile.

This move may seem useless as a projectile initially, but the fact that it produces a weapon that greatly increases the Black Knight's already massive weight is quite tempting, though not necessary until he gets to high percentages. Until then, this move is best used as a throwing projectile, as the thrown sword deals some pretty nice damage.

{9...18%}

Neutral Aerial - Blink

The Black Knight uses a very small amount of warp powder to disappear briefly (during which time he has invinceability) and then reappear in the exact spot he was before. The lag and disappearance frames of this move are roughly identical to those of Mewtwo's airdodge by default, but by holding A, the Black Knight can remain in his disappearing state for a cost of an additional 1% self damage per second with a maximum of 3 seconds duration. When he reappears, the Black Knight will immediately launch a swift sword slash in one direction, dealing 6% and medium knockback in that direction. To control the direction of the slash, use the control stick during the disappearance frames, with forwards being the default. The attack has great reach, good (disjointed) priority, and deals no hitstun. The BK takes 1% damage from Warp Powder.

The ultimate in defensive aerials. Use this if you need to dodge an attack and immediately punish a foe or just for simple mindgames. The combo potential of this move is low, considering it deals decent knockback and can be predictable when not used to punish foes.

{6%} {1...4% self harm}

Forward Aerial - Shove

The Black Knight performs a shoulder bash a bit like Wario's Forward Smash in animation (except much less cartoonish and more effortless). Struck foes take 10% damage and are meteored downwards in a horizontal arc. This attack has medium beginning lag and high ending lag. Mediocre reach. Medium priority.

A useful move for spiking purposes. Can potentially be used to knock the foe to the ground in preperation for a combo, as the end lag auto-cancels on the ground.

{10%}

Back Aerial - Fatal Strike

The BK turns around, using the momentum to lead into a powerful finishing slash for low beginning lag. While this attack does have the great reach of the BK's sword, it behaves much like the Knee of Justice or Zelda's Fair in that it is really weak unless sweetspotted. The sweetspot of the attack, like that of the Knee of Justice, is pretty bad, only coming out in the first frames of the slash (though reaching all the way down) and only being at the base of the BK's sword. Sweetspotted (evident by flashing red lightning at the point of connection), the slash will deal a massive 15% and great horizontal knockback (kills starting at 85%). Unsweetspotted, the slash deals a mere 3% and a low set knockback. Medium ending lag. Good (disjointed) priority.

This move is a great finisher when sweespotted and a respectable end to a combo. Perhaps one of the best comboes for this purpose is Up Special -> RAR Bair.

{15% sweetspotted, 3% unsweetspotted}

Up Aerial - Spinning Blade

The Black Knight throws Alondite up in the air for low beginning lag. The blessed sword travels upwards about 3 BF platform's distance before falling back down. Normally, the sword just flies/falls straight, dealing 6% damage and decent upwards knockback (kills starting at 145%), but, if attacked, the sword will start spinning just like a flipper for rapid hits of 1% (with the speed of the spinning being based on the power of the attack that hit it). The spinning hits draw foes inside of the sword's hitbox and are very hard to DI out of, seeing as they actually deal some nice hitstun. Should the foe be unable to escape, they will be drawn back to the BK. This move has low ending lag. Duration is about 3/4 of a second.

If the foe can be tricked into attacking the blade, they will be caught in its spinning. This is great for drawing foes closer to the Black Knight (amazing for starting comboes), especially if the foe had high damage already. This can be a great lead into almost any combo, though combines naturally well with the BK's Up Smash.

{6% no spin, rapid hits of 1% spin}

Down Aerial - With An Iron Foot

The Black Knight does a stomp much like that of Ganondorf's Dair (even having the same lag, priority, and hitstun), but using only his right foot. The force of this attack actually has a pretty opposite knockback to that of Ganondorf's. If used on aerial foes, they will suffer good upwards knockback (kills starting at 120%) and take 12%. If used on grounded foes, the foe will be stuck to the ground under the weight of the BK's heavy boot, taking 5% damage and putting them in a grab of sorts. From this point, the BK can hold down A to squeeze said foe under his foot for 2% per second or "throw" them by pressing the control stick left or right, causing the BK to kick them just hard enough to make the foe slide across the floor at a slow speed. The grab version of this attack has almost unnoticeably low ending lag and can be escaped just like a normal grab.

The vs. aerial version of this attack has very low comboing potential but is more powerful as a standalone (and it can be used to score KOs), but the vs. ground version of the attack can actually lead into comboes quite nicely, and is thus the more recommended version of the attack. It leads nicely into many ground attacks, especially the Dash Attack and Side Special.

{12% vs. air; 5% + 2%x vs. ground}

Ledge Attack - Heavy Fist

The BK jumps up from the ledge and unleashes a powerful punch that deals 11% and great forwards knockback (kills starting at 100%). Medium beginning lag and fairly high ending lag. Good reach. Good priority.

What can really be said about a situational move? I suppose that if you manage to land it, it is a suitable killing move, but if whiffed, you can be punished with ease.

{11%}

Tripped Attack - Heavy Blade

The BK gets up slowly and unleashes a mighty 360 degree sword swing, hitting in all directions for 13% and high upwards knockback (kills starting at 70%). Great reach. Good (disjointed) priority. High beginning lag and fairly high ending lag.

What a powerful move this is! Too bad it's so slow. On the few occassions that an outside source of tripping does make the BK trip, he'll sure be feeling it with the high lag of this attack.

{13%}

Rising Attack - Leap

The BK leaps to his feet while using the weight of his mighty arms to swing from the sides upwards, ending in a powerful double elbow. The "sourspot" of the attack deals 8% and decent upwards knockback (kills starting at 135%). The sweetspot of the attack (the ending elbow) deals 12% and great upwards knockback (kills starting at 90%). This move has low beginning lag and medium ending lag. Medium reach. Good priority.

The BK's rising attack is actually fast in contrast to his other situationals but is still a good killing move when sweetspotted.

{8% unsweetspotted, 12% sweetspotted}

Grab - Iron Grip

The Black Knight grabs the foe with his left hand and brings them close to him, seemingly looking like an embrace. This grab has average grab stats.

Grab Attack - Iron Fist

The Black Knight swiftly punches the foe in the gun for 1%. This is a fast pummel, having low lag on both ends.

{1%}

Forward Throw - Iron Knee

The Black Knight slams his knee into the foe, dealing 6% and great forwards knockback (kills starting at 97%). Medium lag on both ends.

The BK's best killing throw when not by the edge.

{6%}

Backward Throw - Iron Gauntlet

The Black Knight tosses the foe backwards with his left arm, following up with a mighty elbow slam with his right arm. Deals 8% and good backwards knockback (kills starting at 110%). Medium lag on both ends.

Ties with the Up Throw for the BK's most well-rounded throw.

{8%}

Up Throw - Iron Foot

The Black Knight unleashes a mighty upwards kick, dealing 7% and good upwards knockback (kills starting at 103%). Medium lag on both ends.

Ties with the Back Throw for the BK's most well-rounded throw.

{7%}

Down Throw - Go Join Gawain

The Black Knight stabs the grabbed foe through their chest, the blade clearly seen protruding through their backsides. The foe takes 10% damage and, after about 1 second, falls off the sword and starts staggering backwards, falling down after 1 second. This throw has high beginning lag and medium ending lag.

While this cannot chain grab, as the foe is invinceable while staggering, this is the best throw the BK has for comboes, as the foe is vunerable to attack after falling down. Interestingly enough, the foe can humorously commit suicide if they fall off the edge.

{10%}

Eclipse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrmuATvklKA

The most overkill move in Fire Emblem history!

The Black Knight walks from where he is all the way to the edge of whatever he is standing on. When he reaches a foe, said foe will be caught in his ultimate attack. The Black Knight will point his sword at the foe tauntingly and then slash the foe 5 times, dealing 10% with each slash. The last slash deals great knockback (kills at 100%) that completely removes the foe's weight. This works by treating Jigglypuff as if she had 0 weight and thus all character's take the same knockback as Jigglypuff.

As a special easter egg, an FE life bar displaying 50 health points for the foe will appear and drain to 50 to 0 when the last hit connects.

{10% + 10% + 10% + 10% + 10%}

Up Taunt - Full Strength

The Black Knight offers the sword from his Down Smash while saying "I'ld like to see you at your full strength."

Side Taunt - Preparational Stance

The Black Knight performs the sword slash + point that he uses to signal the start of his Final Smash (Eclipse).

Down Taunt - A Real Challenge

The Black Knight says "Now, offer me a real challenge" while his cape blows in the wind, as in Ike's taunts.

All Victory Poses - Is That All There Is?

Theme - Against the Black Knight

The Black Knight stands intimidating under the moon light saying "Is that... all there is... no challenge... no resistance?"

Using the taunt directions changes what the foes do during the results screen.

Up - All foes start bowing down to the Black Knight.
Side - The foes all cower in fear.
Down - The foes lie on the ground motionless. Look's like they've joined Gawain in the afterlife.

Loss Pose

A speech bubble appears over the Black Knight's head saying "You've grown stronger... I... commend you," as the BK weakly claps.

Pros

Heaviest character in the game.
Attacks are often quick.
Great reach on most attacks.
Good priority on most attacks.
Good at damage racking and comboing.
No lack of killing moves.
Powerful recovery with warp powder.
Warp Powder allows the Black Knight to approach.
Ultimate anti-camper.
Cannot trip on his own.
Multiple useful projectiles.
Can gimp
Has multiple ways of spiking.

Cons

Large target.
Extremely reliant on Warp Powder. He cannot approach, recover, or fight campers without it.
Warp Powder moves (except Up Special) cause the Black Knight self harm.
Slow movement speed.
Bad jumps.
Fast faller, hurting recovery and air game and making him even more susceptible to comboes.
Bad edge game.
Moves that cause the BK to trip are especially effective against him, given his horribly slow tripped attack.

The Black Knight Lives - Play As

The Black Knight is a very odd case among heavyweight characters- he is exceptional at comboing.

A list of his comboes includes:

A -> A,A -> A,A,A
A -> A,A -> Side Tilt -> Dash Attack = 22%
Down Tilt -> A -> A,A -> Side Tilt -> Dash Attack -> Side Special = 32%
Up Tilt -> Up Special -> Up Smash = 31%
Up Tilt -> Side Special = 13%
Up Tilt -> Up Special -> Side Special = 18%
Down Throw -> Dash Attack = 22%
Down Throw -> Side Special = 17%
Down Throw -> Dash Attack -> Side Special = 29%
Up Aerial -> Up Smash = 20% + 1%x (variable depending on number of hits).
Down Aerial -> Dash Attack = 5% + 12% + 2%x (depending upon duration of Down Aerial "grab").
Up Special -> RAR Bair = 8/18% (unsweetspotted/sweetspotted)

The Black Knight may possess many more comboes than even that list holds. It all depends on the inventiveness and talent of the Black Knight player. One particular instance of combo innovation would be the inclusion of warping to bring the Black Knight to the foe to extend his combo or proper use of the Up Special to position the foe just right for another hit of the combo.

Of course, there is more to our ebon-clad fiend than comboing.

The Black Knight is really really slow and has terrible jumps. This means that approaching would be a living Hell for him, right? Not necessarily. The Black Knight can use his Neutral Special (which is also his primary means of recovery) to warp across the stage or even warp right to a foe who strikes him with projectiles via the use of his Down Special. The use of these tools is limited, however, as the BK takes damage with every use of warp powder. Use these specials only when it is necessary.

The BK has a terrible edge game. His falling speed, bad recovery (without warp powder), and punishable ledge attack mean that aggressive gimping can prove to be a deadly mistake on his part. But fear not... the Black Knight's Up Special isn't just for positioning foes for a combo. It's also a wonderful gimping tool as it moves the foe a considerable distance without refreshing recoveries!

The BK's killing moves are usually very conditional. His Forward Smash is slow to start. His Up Smash is hard to hit and painful if whiffed. His Bair has to sweetspot to kill. All of his spikes/meteors are fairly conditional (though that is to be expected of a spike or meteor). The only unconditional killing moves he actually has are his throws (only one of his throws really comboes well). BK players have a variety of approaches for killing. They can use their reliable throws. Alternatively, they can attempt to land any of their situational KO's, though comboes are the only reliable ways to do so really. Up Special -> RAR Bair is one example of a killing combo when used correctly. Up Aerial or Up Tilt -> Up Smash is another example. Of course, gimping via Up Special shouldn't be ruled out as a way to score early KOs.

The Black Knight's air game is nothing short of bad, considering the fact that his jumps are poor, his falling speed is too fast, and his heavy weight usually prevents him from being knocked high into the air until high percentages anyway. So why even use his aerials? The answer is simple really. His aerials all complement his ground game perfectly.. think of them as an extension of his ground game. His Fair comboes well into moves like the Dash Attack and can be used to spike or space. His Bair is an effective RAR should you learn to land it reliably. His Nair is a great move for punishing foes and for self defense. His Uair is a great form of anti-air and comboes nicely into his Up Smash. His Dair comboes nicely into his ground game when used against grounded foes (especially into Dash Attack and Side Special).

Black Knight players will find themselves truly blessed when they master this character, a heavyweight with a potentially godly approach, recovery, and anti-camp game, great combo potential, and an array of KO options. That Victory Pose of his shall embarass many a foe.

Against the Black Knight - Play Against

Playing against an experienced Black Knight player can be a very difficult task. He is great at comboing up close and can counter campers with ease. So what does this leave you with to fight him?

One important thing to note is that the Black Knight has a terrible air game and a worse edge game. For this reason, an opponent of the Black Knight should attempt to aerial combo and juggle him. He is incredibly susceptible to comboes, epitomising heavy weight, fast falling speed, and large size.

The Black Knight is very susceptible to traps. With a terrible movement speed and bad jumps, his only means of getting past traps is usually to warp, which hurts him anyway.

The Black Knight responds very badly to sources of tripping. Use moves that can cause tripping, especially Diddy's bannanas and the Black Knight will find himself weakened dramatically.

Black KnightVs. Ike - 80/20 Black Knight's Favor

Did you really think you could defeat the Black Knight? You are a fool, son of Gawain. The Black Knight's comboing abilities far, far, exceed those of Ike's. Ike also completely lacks projectiles giving him little choice but close combat, while the Black Knight does hold the distinct advantage of projectiles. The match isn't completely hopeless on Ike's part, however. Ike's counter can be used to stop comboes before they ever happen. Ike also possesses superior movement and air game. If Ike can force the BK into the air, the BK will have a difficult time escaping the punishment.

Black Knight Vs. King Dedede - 0/100 Chain Grab's Favor

It goes without saying that someone epitomising large size, heavy weight, bad movement, and fast falling speed will have an impossible time against Dedede's chain.

Black Knight vs. Metaknight- 50/50

Here we have a surprisingly even matchup. The Black Knight and Metaknight are both very effective in the combo department and can rack damage on each other with ease. The Mach Tornado will give the Black Knight Hell, but the Black Knight is actually not completely helpless, as warping and projectile spam will allow him to combat this intimidating foe. Metaknight has an advantage in the air, but the Black Knight is almost uncontested on the ground.

The Black Knight vs. Diddy Kong - 20/80 Diddy's favor

Diddy is far from reliant on camping to pull a victory and both are competent comboers. Diddy's real advantage comes from his bannanas. The Black Knight will either be pinned due to bad mobility, forced to hurt himself with warp powder, or be falling on his *** due to bannanas if the pesky peels are set up properly. Enjoy one hilarious match, you cheeky ape.

So... here it is... a moveset for my leadership representation and current avatar. The Black Knight may or may not be an amazing moveset by MYM standards. I care not. It is my way of "paving my own way" in this contest. No longer will I bind myself by trivial, excessive, and unrealistic creativity. I'm supposed to be making move sets for Smash..... not an imaginary game where characters are unable to perform basic attacks that everyone should be able to do. Am I saying that I am dooming myself to Sakurai-level genericism? Hell no. I am merely finding a point between these- a great medium that combines practicality with reasonable creativity and uniqueness. Take this as you wish. Spit on this set for its lack of ungodly creativity or praise this set for its practicality... I care not if I win or lose, because, frankly, MYM is no longer my highest priority. It's a fun side-venture and that is all it should be.

I would like to thank Smash Daddy for providing the visual images for this set.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, are you offended?

Depends are u trying to offend me, but wut ever.

 

[ness4life]

Guys, what new masterpieces should be in SSB4? If Captain Rainbow is in the game (or some other original IP), then there would have to be actual wii demos. Maybe masterpieces could just be from classic nintendo games, and not necessarily from a character's games (duck hunt w/ wii remote!)

 

[Bowser King]

Fire Emblem DS is a remake of the first game, so that's probably the closest we'll get to playing the game.

I'm crazy excited for this game. It's one of those few series I know wont go all wiimote-waggling and stylus-spamming

 

[Deleted member]

I'm crazy excited for this game. It's one of those few series I know wont go all wiimote-waggling and stylus-spamming

isn't it already out for Japan and no release confirmed for America/Canada?

(I don't pay attention to release news)

 

[Chief Mendez]

Guys, what new masterpieces should be in SSB4? If Captain Rainbow is in the game (or some other original IP), then there would have to be actual wii demos. Maybe masterpieces could just be from classic nintendo games, and not necessarily from a character's games (duck hunt w/ wii remote!)

I just think there should be a Pokemon game in there. Red Version up until you beat Brock.

Of course, that would mean the VC will eventually have to support Game Boy games...but I think that's a given anyway. Also Megaman 2 (assuming Megaman's in the game) and Sonic 2. Metal Gear (or Ghost Babel, going off the Game Boy thing) as well.

isn't it already out for Japan and no release confirmed for America/Canada?

It comes out next week in Japan. I don't think it has a North American release date yet, though I am fairly sure it's been confirmed for release over here.

 

[Adapt]

How important is it that Luigi is in the roster? (given who I have already taken out)

He's the only one right now who has a clone moveset and I'd like to remove him. But it feels weird not having the green wonder in the game.

Olimar would take his place

PS: I like Jiggs btw... rest is too fun, but there are too many balloons, she has the least fanbase, and there are too many pokemon as well. I would rather have kept her, but she didn't fit

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I dunno, the masterpieces were alright, but it was all just a big commercial for Nintendo...
I'm not saying throw them out, but just give us a longer playthrough. Oh, and 3rd party masterpieces should be included.

Masterpieces are a huge waste of space. If Brawl never had the Masterpieces, we might've had more features or fighters than what we were given.

Seriously, the Masterpieces should be ditched for Smash 4.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Great... now I have to get a DS...

Lol, ya good thing I already have one, tee hee hee!


And I just got Wi-Fi, so add me, and one of my taunts is Tee Hee Hee. I love it!

 

[ducky285]

How important is it that Luigi is in the roster? (given who I have already taken out)

He's the only one right now who has a clone moveset and I'd like to remove him. But it feels weird not having the green wonder in the game.

Olimar would take his place

PS: I like Jiggs btw... rest is too fun, but there are too many balloons, she has the least fanbase, and there are too many pokemon as well. I would rather have kept her, but she didn't fit

Luigi is to Mario like Ken is to Ryu in Street Fighter. Keep him in but make him a little less goofy. Seriously, does he HAVE to slide around like a oily puck on ice all the time?

 

[Twilght Link]

I hope they buff link for once; at least make him high tier for once he deserves it. In sbb he was bottom, ssbm he was the top of the low tier (i think) and he's probably destined for bottom or low tier in brawl. For ssb4 plz let them buff him.....

Anyways what about adding better trophies, replay features for online play, real alternate costumes, better online, better storyline, slightly faster gameplay, a little less floatiness, the best opening cinematic of all the smash games, even better character battle openings, more balance( i know its hard to do but balance= more variety) one or two more 3rd party characters, and etc.

 

[MarthTrinity]

Disregard this, what I get for not reading previous pages @_@

 

[SkylerOcon]

What everybody else said they wanted

Spoiler

10peoplewhoneedtoreadthethread

 

[Twilght Link]

Spoiler

10peoplewhoneedtoreadthethread

......i was just wrapping up what basically has been said up to now; plus when has anyone in this topic said that they wanted link to get buffed in sbb4?

 

[Chief Mendez]

I hope they buff link for once; at least make him high tier for once he deserves it. In sbb he was bottom, ssbm he was the top of the low tier (i think) and he's probably destined for bottom or low tier in brawl. For ssb4 plz let them buff him.....

Well, speaking as a guy who's mained Link since Smash 64, I can say that Brawl Link is the best of the three versions.

If they had left his Spin Attack alone, he'd be perfect, as that's the only thing Melee Link has over Brawl Link. I like being able to charge it, but it's alot more situational on the ground now, and in the air...well, let's not talk about that right now.

But his arrows are faster and go farther, his boomerang messes with people's heads, and his bombs are...well, pretty much the same. Also, his aerials are all useful now, especially his Dair. He got rid of that silly Multi-Stab, and his Usmash and Dsmash are totally amazing now.

I maintain that Link's the best character in the game, but then, I am not very smart. So take that as you will.

All he needs in SSB4 is a recovery that doesn't suck.

 

[Chris Lionheart]

I'm crazy excited for this game. It's one of those few series I know wont go all wiimote-waggling and stylus-spamming

Don't jinx it.... I don't want them to make a game like that.

"And for this next Fire Emblem game you can increase your characters power by swinging the wii-mote in sync with their attack."

 

[Moy]

1. Physics of Melee

2. Every character so far in the Smash series playable

3. Bowser Jr. playable

4. Good online play

That's all I can ask for. For now.

 

[SirKibble]

Luigi is to Mario like Ken is to Ryu in Street Fighter. Keep him in but make him a little less goofy. Seriously, does he HAVE to slide around like a oily puck on ice all the time?

Yes.

10yes.

 

[Ilex]

2. Every character so far in the Smash series playable

Really? I think that characters like Pichu are out and should stay out. Pichu was nothing but a clone of Pikachu that hurt itself every time it attacked, wtf. Once a character was cut, there's obviously a reason and they shouldn't come back. That includes Mewtwo, he's gone, so deal with it (Directed at all Mewtards).

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

For Smash Bros. DS, I hope it isn't just smash 4. I mean... I don't want the next one only on DS... Do people agree?

However, making it connectible with a console Smash game would RULE!!!

Hell even make competition on the two games playable.

I'd even be fine with just taking the best stages and unique, 'good' characters from each game and throwing them together. It'd be all your smash games, on-the-go. That'd be awesome for me!

Hmm in order to improve the smash series, as a whole:

If you have the memory equipped, then do it. What I mean is--why not give us all the past stages? I mean, IF the memory is good enough. WhichI think it is, since it can remember a crap load of custom stages and what not. Hell even the Wiimote has memory, I think it can handl a bunch more stages. But eh?

Online: What I say about this is--add a search/server page. As in, keep the options available, but maybe have a server list full of a bunch of random people who want to play smash. It'd be like "with everyone", but you actually get some control over things.

Please note that I'm not talking about Smash DS specifically for these improvements...

Make the game more balanced? I haven't played at any tournaments so I may not be able to see how some characters are more 'fair'/'balanced' than the rest, so... if you can make it more balanced, even if I don't know what needs balancing... then by all means, do so!

The stage maker needs an upgrade!!! Hell Mario vs. DK 2 has a slightly better stage builder than smashes. :/ At least the controls for stage buiding seem waaay better in Mario vs. DK 2. So change the control scheme slightly, and allow for more options, such as rotating blocks/platforms/spikes/etc. Maybe add another toggable option that allows you to switch between moving objects block-by-block, and more detailed, like half-block, and then maybe small spaces. Also... Why can we not place things directly above certain objects.. I don't see why not? And it makes even less sense not able to put them directly next to the object. Why is that??

More costumes!!! As in--Mario's costume=Dr. Mario. These could be alternates that are unlocked by perhaps completing certain tasks as certain characters. It'd give people another reason to explore/play as other characters, am I right? I know this idea has been presented at least in a mostly similar way by multiple others by now, but I'm stating it as well .

Edit: What's the reason Mewtwo is gone? Besides being replaced for Lucario. I mean he wans't a clone or anything.