[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Fatmanonice]

From the sounds of it, you only have a beef with ChocoSlime because you're not familiar with the moves they have/could borrow from their own games.

Or maybe because you've got your heart set on someone else, whatever.

If this is about Geno, I already said that he wouldn't do a good job of representing Square Enix as a whole which seems to be the backbone of why Chocobo/Slime would even be considered. Honestly, look at how Crono is, for example. You can get a pretty good idea of what his abilities are simply from watching any of the intro videos from the original or the Chrono Trigger/Final Fantasy IV remakes on the PS1. In this example, knowing what Chocobo and Slime can do is not only not immediately apparent and it becomes even more odd and complicated by the fact that you essentially have two characters from different franchises teamed up and working together as a single force despite the fact that they have never done this before. In this sense, you've basically given the developers yet another obstacle to overcome for a third party character and, as I said earlier, history has shown that the developers rarely go completely out of their way to creatively construct a character.

Also, what did I say about holding a grudge? Our last arguement was almost two weeks ago, let it go...

Add in: Also, WTF at the people who believe that Travis Touchdown would get in before Megaman. SUDA 51 may have expressed interest but they're still owned by Capcom and Inafune (not only Megaman's creator but the current President of Capcom) expressed interest almost a year and a half before they did. Needless to say, I think his opinion takes priority by a longshot.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

@BadAxel97: I haven't found a slime render yet, so you can give a crack at it.

If this is about Geno, I already said that he wouldn't do a good job of representing Square Enix as a whole which seems to be the backbone of why Chocobo/Slime would even be considered.

You forgot the melee polls and both being very relevant reoccuring and important characters of the very few in there perspective series since there's only one protaginist that truly fits for representing it, and I already touched that one enough.

Also I like geno too as you remember; Infact him, Sora, Chrono, The Chocobo/Black Mage/Slime, and so on is the REASON I keep fighting this uphill battle on having a Square Enix rep in smash bros. *Keeps hoping and working on it and all*

Honestly, look at how Crono is, for example. You can get a pretty good idea of what his abilities are simply from watching any of the intro videos from the original or the Chrono Trigger/Final Fantasy IV remakes on the PS1. In this example, knowing what Chocobo and Slime can do is not only not immediately apparent and it becomes even more odd and complicated by the fact that you essentially have two characters from different franchises teamed up and working together as a single force despite the fact that they have never done this before. In this sense, you've basically given the developers yet another obstacle to overcome for a third party character and, as I said earlier, history has shown that the developers rarely go completely out of their way to creatively construct a character.

They don't really go out of there way: But look at FF, already tons of moves from each one with sometimes a few different each game, That's without looking at there character. - They may not have insta-movesets but the developers do NOT Have to go out of there way as much as you're making it seem like.

I agree on the part of never teaming up, thus It isn't the most "True" Thing to there perspective games, but It still works considering Chocobo carries people around and doesn't usually move on it's own.

Add in: Also, WTF at the people who believe that Travis Touchdown would get in before Megaman. SUDA 51 may have expressed interest but they're still owned by Capcom and Inafune (not only Megaman's creator but the current President of Capcom) expressed interest almost a year and a half before they did. Needless to say, I think his opinion takes priority by a longshot.

We don't think TT Will get over Megaman; Some believe he'll also possibly find a way in (yo sup @ interest) I still have the belief that a second new third-party character wouldn't hurt the roster or be filler or anything as long as It isn't ridiculous.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@TreKoops
You asked earlier who is worhty of a spot. I will speak on my opinion and Let Toise give his.

I personally feel appopriate antagonists, Like K. Rool, should always get in (cases like Fire emblem and Pikmin don't follow this rule), also any subsidary, but still important, protagonists (Dixe is to Diddy as Falco is to Fox). Then comes special cases in which a chracter presents himself as worthy of a spot regardless of his indivudal roles, within reason (Like Krystal)

 

[Fatmanonice]

Just for the sake of asking, what do you guys think of a Moggle representing Square Enix if it were "needed." They pretty much have a presence in a large majority of the Final Fantasy games including the spinoffs and even games like Kingdom Hearts and Mario Hoops 3 on 3. The more I think of it, the more I think we're trying to "force" Square Enix to have a rep simply because of its strong standing when, as we can probably all agree on, there really isn't anybody who does a good job at representing the company whole. A lot of great characters, to be sure, but no body really stands out as THE Square Enix character of choice. *gets ready to punch the first person to say Cloud*

Regarding the Melee poll, you also have to keep in mind that people like James Bond were popular picks too so not everything suggested was entirely practical. If anything, whatever the end results of the Brawl poll were will be much more relevant for SSB4 seeing how most of the top picks in the Melee poll finally became playable in Brawl.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

@TreKoops
You asked earlier who is worhty of a spot. I will speak on my opinion and Let Toise give his.

I personally feel appopriate antagonists, Like K. Rool, should always get in (cases like Fire emblem and Pikmin don't follow this rule), also any subsidary, but still important, protagonists (Dixe is to Diddy as Falco is to Fox). Then comes special cases in which a chracter presents himself as worthy of a spot regardless of his indivudal roles, within reason (Like Krystal)

I'm not saying that; I'm saying at this point we don't have many characters in nintendo's roster that could TRUELY Generate hype or please a lot of people - I was being a bit harsh there on what nintendo has left, but the point on third-parties still stand.

Just for the sake of asking, what do you guys think of a Moggle representing Square Enix if it were "needed." They pretty much have a presence in a large majority of the Final Fantasy games including the spinoffs and even games like Kingdom Hearts and Mario Hoops 3 on 3. The more I think of it, the more I think we're trying to "force" Square Enix to have a rep simply because of its strong standing when, as we can probably all agree on, there really isn't anybody who does a good job at representing the company whole. A lot of great characters, to be sure, but no body really stands out as THE Square Enix character of choice. *gets ready to punch the first person to say Cloud*

It's hard to find one; But a reoccuring character (Black Mage? Chocobo?) From Final Fantasy is at least pretty reasonable. I believe the moogle could be pretty cool as well, and you have a point about those extra cameo's. It wouldn't be one of my more favored choices of reoccuring characters but It'd still work.

Oh, and the moogle did help carry things in FF:CC

Regarding the Melee poll, you also have to keep in mind that people like James Bond were popular picks too so not everything suggested was entirely practical. If anything, whatever the end results of the Brawl poll were will be much more relevant for SSB4 seeing how most of the top picks in the Melee poll finally became playable in Brawl.

True; I was more meaning on the latter (The reoccuring etc) but Square has still managed to stay popular on the want for a rep...sup @ geno.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Is hype all that matters to making a game successful? I can understand that puting certain characters in can get people excited, but having a successful game series and a fourth enstallment would create enough hype. I think your overestimating the impact a third party character can have on selling a game.

 

[Big-Cat]

Travis' next game will be the last on a Nintendo platform Suda51 has said. All well and good he wants Travis in Smash Bros but... he's a nutcase. He says a lot of things.

Actually, this was a mistranslation. What he actually said was that it would be the last Wii one because he said that he thinks he's done all he can do on that console. However, he would want to continue the series on a Nintendo platform. Also, this would be Travis' last game, and for those of you who cling to the recent card, this doesn't bode well for him.

Add in: Also, WTF at the people who believe that Travis Touchdown would get in before Megaman. SUDA 51 may have expressed interest but they're still owned by Capcom and Inafune (not only Megaman's creator but the current President of Capcom) expressed interest almost a year and a half before they did. Needless to say, I think his opinion takes priority by a longshot.

Look up your information before making such a statement, but I can see why you think so. Suda 51 is an independent developer. He has no ties to Capcom. In fact, NMH was never published by Capcom in any region.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

You don't need the space...I think I'm going to get this account to member temporarily to rename this to "Thirdkoopa"

I just need a good abbreviation to use for when I respond without quote boxes. I tried some nicknames but I think you didn't get them so it was kinda lame. Kinda digging TreKoops, actually.

Anyways; Yeah, you can, but point is they won't be able to generate as much hype as another third-party. Now who was on the box again asides from mainly protaginists, Toise?

Who/What generated the most hype?

"OH MY GOD SONIC AND SNAKE ARE IN BRAWL"


The sake of sales and representing more outside of nintendo isn't enough? 3rd Parties are a different case, mainly on: Fan Request and Begging Sakurai. (At least from what we know)

Does square/another third-party have Fan Request? Yes.
Have they begged Sakurai? No, but fans have. (Tho, we've had Megaman and Travis Touchdown's developers interested, and that's just in the time-span of less than 2 years)

Funny how they were on the back of the box. Hey look, I see Wario, Pit, MK, and PT on the front.

"3rd parties" as a category or concept does not excite people. It's the characters themselves that do that. People aren't asking for "3rd party reps," they want Sonic, Snake, Mega Man, whoever. The forbidden fruit angle doesn't suddenly make one character inherently better than another. It'd be like saying Bomberman is better than Ridley just because Nintendo owns the latter. I wonder how many of you would agree with that?

Anyway, the whole point is that we don't NEED more 3rd parties. Are they nice? Yeah. Are they better than certain Nintendo characters? They can be. Are they required? No, not at all. The game is about Nintendo characters, turns out it's alright to keep the focus on them.

If this is about Geno, I already said that he wouldn't do a good job of representing Square Enix as a whole which seems to be the backbone of why Chocobo/Slime would even be considered. Honestly, look at how Crono is, for example. You can get a pretty good idea of what his abilities are simply from watching any of the intro videos from the original or the Chrono Trigger/Final Fantasy IV remakes on the PS1. In this example, knowing what Chocobo and Slime can do is not only not immediately apparent and it becomes even more odd and complicated by the fact that you essentially have two characters from different franchises teamed up and working together as a single force despite the fact that they have never done this before. In this sense, you've basically given the developers yet another obstacle to overcome for a third party character and, as I said earlier, history has shown that the developers rarely go completely out of their way to creatively construct a character.

No, it's not about Geno. That line is about how everyone else who hasn't liked the ChocoSlime idea so far has brought up their favorite SE character and said "this guy is WAY more likely!" As if something makes their guy so special.

But the real question is why you're accusing Chocobo or Slime of having "not immediately apparent" moves. I guess nobody would expect a bird to peck and kick or a blob to smack and tackle, right? Plus the whole magic thing they've both always had (which isn't any more obvious through Crono or any other SE character except those wearing classical wizardly designs). All I can tell is that you're not very familiar with either character's abilities.

Even worse is the notion that SE wouldn't want to take its two mascots and team them up (like that never happened before) for a very, VERY high profile game. They're both very flexible characters, it's not much of a challenge to get them to work together. What makes you think they can't figure out something so simple as this?

Also, what did I say about holding a grudge? Our last arguement was almost two weeks ago, let it go...

Will you cut it out with this grudge crap? Do you take every post directed at you personally or something? Seriously, it's an argument. You can have those with people. They're perfectly normal.

 

[Fatmanonice]

@ Kuma:

Alright, I mixed up NMH with Killer 7; so sue me...

@ Toise:

Square Enix probably wouldn't be involved in developing the character. Sakurai said that he developed all the moves and animations for each character himself, including the third party characters and its pretty apparent that he doesn't go all too out of his way when it comes to research. Also, I wouldn't call putting two character non-identical characters together "easy" in any situation. With Slime and Chocobo, it seems people are more interested in what the character represents then praticality or whether or not the character would even be worth the effort.

It's like if Geno were used to represent the Mario RPGs. More likely than not, people really don't care if the Mario RPGs get repped; people just want him because they believe he would be a fun character to play as and people usually have about the same ideas when they develop movesets for him. In a sense, would people generally care if Slime/chocobo was added? Would the amount of effort used to make the character interesting be worth the questionable payout among fans? With first party characters, it doesn't really matter because there really isn't a huge investment on Nintendo's part plus they have pretty much everyone that they and each of their second parties have made at their disposal. Obviously, with third party characters, it is pretty much limited to a few characters with maybe one or two people being practical choices especially when you consider liscensing too.

Add in: How in God's name did Chocobo/Slime even became a "serious" topic. This is something I'd like to call speculation gone wild because this idea is freakishly unlikely as, already said, Square Enix doesn't have an obvious choice and the number of third party characters will no doubt be limited once again. To be completely honest, I think Snake would have remained the only third party character in Brawl if it weren't for the freakishly high demand for Sonic around the world. Sakurai doesn't seem to care all too much about third party characters aside from throwing fans a bone.

I don't know, speculating on anyone aside from Megaman at this point is kind of a fool's game because no one else really stacks up in terms of appeal or even interest from the third party developers. As people have mentioned, Travis is basically in a distant second because Suda 51 has expressed interest but, still, the demand really isn't there and, despite being a great game, NMH does really have the weight that Sonic and Metal Gear have. Again, it kind of becomes a matter if the idea is realistic given what we know at this time.

Another add in: Basically what I'm trying to say is that we need to stop treating third party characters like first party characters. Two entirelly different camps with the third party one being considerably smaller with tighter "regulations." Sakurai can add first and second party characters for the dumbest of reasons; he doesn't have that liberty with third party and even then his interest in third party characters is minimal at best.

 

[SmashChu]

@n88: Nice poll. It's a good idea. I would recommend going to other boards and blogs to promote it. Try GoNintnendo or NeoGAF. If you do though, remember to spruce it up a bit. Try adding more to the site, like an intro, adding a few more faces (perhaps ones that came from "others") or maybe a page show who those characters are. The more diverse your sample, the closer it will be to the population.

You don't need the space...I think I'm going to get this account to member temporarily to rename this to "Thirdkoopa"

Anyways; Yeah, you can, but point is they won't be able to generate as much hype as another third-party. Now who was on the box again asides from mainly protaginists, Toise?

Who/What generated the most hype?

"OH MY GOD SONIC AND SNAKE ARE IN BRAWL"

Two thing to kep in mind:
First, hype doesn't create long term sales, but short term sales. Games that are really hyped have a short life span. Making a good game is what is going to create long term sellers. Adding bland or uninteresting third party characters would be counter productive.

Second is the law of diminishing marginal utility. Basically, the more times you do this, the les it will work each time. Sonic and Snake worked at first, but Megaman in SSB4 will give less utility then Snake and Sonic did in Brawl.

Anyway, the whole point is that we don't NEED more 3rd parties. Are they nice? Yeah. Are they better than certain Nintendo characters? They can be. Are they required? No, not at all. The game is about Nintendo characters, turns out it's alright to keep the focus on them.

This is very importaint. One problem with adding too many third party characters is that you run the risk of it feeling soulless.

Smash is a celebration of Nintendo's history. So, naturally, the focus is on Nintendo. Adding too many third party characters shifts the focus away from what the game's intended purpose was, making it feel cluttered and soulless (as in, not having the same feeling). Keeping it Nintendo focus is good overall as it is what Smash stands for. Basically, you wouldn't want to have a Smash game where you fight on top of a PS3 would you?

On Snake: The one thing I wonder about him is can they even use him next time. They pretty much exhausted his Nintendo games. They'd have to either have another stage from Twin Sankes, use one of the NES games (which weren't very memorable) or use a Non-Nintendo game. Not sure what else they can do with him.

 

[Big-Cat]

Two thing to kep in mind:
First, hype doesn't create long term sales, but short term sales. Games that are really hyped have a short life span. Making a good game is what is going to create long term sellers. Adding bland or uninteresting third party characters would be counter productive.

Second is the law of diminishing marginal utility. Basically, the more times you do this, the les it will work each time. Sonic and Snake worked at first, but Megaman in SSB4 will give less utility then Snake and Sonic did in Brawl.

Great, the sales card again. The third party thing may not have as great appeal as it did for Brawl, but the amount of backlash from taking them out would be tremendous as to likely affect sales negatively.

This is very importaint. One problem with adding too many third party characters is that you run the risk of it feeling soulless.

Smash is a celebration of Nintendo's history. So, naturally, the focus is on Nintendo. Adding too many third party characters shifts the focus away from what the game's intended purpose was, making it feel cluttered and soulless (as in, not having the same feeling). Keeping it Nintendo focus is good overall as it is what Smash stands for. Basically, you wouldn't want to have a Smash game where you fight on top of a PS3 would you?

Chances are that Nintendo wouldn't let this happen anyway. It'd get to a point where they're profit shares are getting smaller and smaller.

 

[Fatmanonice]

If Brawl taught us anything, the number of third party characters will never grow expotentially and third parties will more than likely always be a small fraction of the roster. For Brawl, they made up about five percent.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Are there any other companies outside capcom, Konami, and Sega. Are Suda 51 and Square-Enix companies people see playable characters coming from?

 

[n88]

@Shino

Hopefully. (Yeah, owned by Namco, whatever. Still counts)

@SmashChu

I was trying to keep it short and sweet, but yeah, expanding it a bit might be beneficial. Prolly won't happen today, though. It's the last day of MYM, and I've got some typing to do.

 

[SmashChu]

Great, the sales card again. The third party thing may not have as great appeal as it did for Brawl, but the amount of backlash from taking them out would be tremendous as to likely affect sales negatively.

Well, the topic was one sales (hype garnering more sales)

People will still be upset, because people get upset over everything (people were probably sad that Pichu is gone). The thing is that they are not Nintendo characters, and thus, not needed. Plus, you'd have to still ensure the rights to the characters and their content. Plus, Snake has very little left that can be usable. It's a lot more then Mewtwo or Roy's situation which can be easily solved. Snake and Sonic have a lot more too them.

Also remember that, while some people like these characters, quite a few fans don't. Some think it should be Nintendo only (there was still some outcry against it when Snake was announced) and more think Snake should go (he doesn't fit in well and has nothing to do with Nintendo).

Chances are that Nintendo wouldn't let this happen anyway. It'd get to a point where they're profit shares are getting smaller and smaller.

Agreed

@SmashChu

I was trying to keep it short and sweet, but yeah, expanding it a bit might be beneficial. Prolly won't happen today, though. It's the last day of MYM, and I've got some typing to do.

Well, my point was that if you wanted to show it off to other places on the internet, that you'd have to spruce it up. At least an into would be good.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Sorry to ask again, but It was left unanswered.

How do people see Roy being re-included: clone still, Semi-Clone (what changes), or Completely new (and if so, how so)

 

[SmashChu]

Sorry to ask again, but It was left unanswered.

How do people see Roy being re-included: clone still, Semi-Clone (what changes), or Completely new (and if so, how so)

Probably like Falco and Ganondorf: with Marth based moveset with a few different moves here and there.

 

[Big-Cat]

People will still be upset, because people get upset over everything (people were probably sad that Pichu is gone). The thing is that they are not Nintendo characters, and thus, not needed. Plus, you'd have to still ensure the rights to the characters and their content. Plus, Snake has very little left that can be usable. It's a lot more then Mewtwo or Roy's situation which can be easily solved. Snake and Sonic have a lot more too them.

I don't know where you're coming from saying Snake is lacking in content to be usable. Do retro characters not count? Besides, Snake has entire series to derive material from.

Also remember that, while some people like these characters, quite a few fans don't. Some think it should be Nintendo only (there was still some outcry against it when Snake was announced) and more think Snake should go (he doesn't fit in well and has nothing to do with Nintendo).

Snake doesn't fit in well? That's a laugh. No one fits in Smash. The entire roster is made up of misfits.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Hero Dude asked for a Kamek moveset. Here are B moves. I cannot do A moves.

Character: Kamek
Series: Super Mario Series

Kamek stands like he does in many of the Mario games. He also walks like in those games also. When it comes to jumping and running, Kamek is to cool to do that on his own and he will summon his broom stick to help. He will ride the broomstick at full running speed and for his jump; he will always ride his broom stick. (His normal jump is riding a vertical broomstick up into the air, holding onto it like he is holding a rope. His second jump is to sit on the broomstick and ride it in a loop like motion.)

B Moves:
Up B: Short Range Teleportation
Kamek will throw his arms into the air, holding out his scepter. He will disappear and appear right above where he was standing. (Mewtwo’s teleport really.) You can also control where Kamek will re-appear.

Down B: Magical Blast
The player can push down B to make Kamek pull out his scepter and throw a magical blast in front of him. This blast works like all other blast attacks in Smash. Interestingly, if B is held, Kamek will stall throwing the magical attack.

What Kamek does is he will summon his scepter in front of him. He will pull it back holding it at his shoulder and then swing it forward, causing the magical blast to fly out of the front. The scepter can cause damage (7%) on its own and the magical attack can also compound the damage done by the scepter. If it is just the magical attack, it can do up to 7% damage on its own.

If B is held, Kamek will hold the scepter at his shoulder. The magic will build, making the magical attack glow on the edge of the scepter. If anyone runs into it, they will take stun damage (1%). It starts out small, being only the size of the scepter end. When held for 5 seconds, the magical blast will grow to encompass Kamek himself. The damage does not increase with the larger blast (it stays 1% while being held and 7% for the throwing attack). The downside to holding this attack is that the larger blast has a shorter range (going only half the distance the normal blast would go).

This attack is good for offense, stalling enemies and setting them up for another attack. It is also good for defense when charged because it has a stun-damaging effect.

Forward B: Broomstick fly
Not only does Kamek fly around on his broomstick most of the time (in his moveset and in game), he also can use it for great recovery. Press forward B and Kamek will shoot forward a little on his Broomstick. It has a ramming function at the first part of the attack (when wind is around him.) After the wind disappears, he does no damage with the attack. B can also be held for this move. Holding it will give Kamek the ability to fly for a small time in all directions on his broomstick. (Think ROB hover in a way.) It is a 360 movement, so pushing up on the Joystick will make Kamek fly upwards. Pushing down will make him fly down (like Super sonic controls).

The flying part of this move only lasts 5 seconds, so use it wisely. It gives Kamek great recover abilities.

A small thing about this B move is that the characters speed compounds the move. If the attack is performed while standing still, the damage will be 8%. If the attack is performed while Kamek is running, not only will he fly faster then he would standing still, he will also do more damage (14% damage).

Neutral B: Sentry
Kamek will make a copy of himself (can only make one at a time and can only have one on screen at a time.) This copy will man the spot Kamek chose for him and will fire a magic blast at the closest enemy. They are good for avoiding damage and for setting up traps. Running into the Kamek clone does no damage to the enemy and a simple strike will get rid of them.

If Kamek summons another Clone while one is on screen, the old one will disappear and the new one will appear in the new location chosen.

There is a small random component to this skill. Kamek can summon three different colored clones. (each with the same chance of appearing as the other.)

Red Kamek – Shoots fire blast that is linear – 10% damage each hit.
Blue Kamek – Shoots a smaller blast that has homing feature – 5% damage
Green Kamek – Fires a semi-homing blast that can fly through characters and objects (continues going.) – 7% damage.

Final Smash – Robo Kamek
Kamek loves building machines. For his FS, Kamek will pull out a controller and summon a giant Robot Kamek (steam punk in a way.) This Kamek will fly down onto the stage and start flying around just above the stage (think two ganondorfs high above the action). He will then fire out lightning, magic blasts and blitz the stage. Hitting Robo-Kamek will make the foe gain damage (5% damage), getting hit by the lightning can be near fatal (10% chance of instant kill. Other times is 15% damage) and the magic blasts cause 15% damage. Robo-Kamek will also summon a defense shield for Kamek, so enemies cannot hurt Kamek at that time. This attack lasts as long as it should to be balanced.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Sorry to ask again, but It was left unanswered.

How do people see Roy being re-included: clone still, Semi-Clone (what changes), or Completely new (and if so, how so)

Semi-clone but, at this point, I seriously doubt he's coming back. Essentially, he'd get the same treatment that Luigi and Falco got: enough differences to not no longer make him a true clone but the similarities that he'd have with Marth would still be obvious.

 

[DekuBoy]

Well, if the 'all star Fire Emblem' game is made it might boost his popularity again. But it also means another character might become MORE popular. But I would like semi-clone at least.

 

[Big-Cat]

I know the whole top things asked a lot, but I want to know what you guys WANT not so much think what is likely. We've been growing off of likelihood that can't be proven, stretched truths, sales, popularity in Japan that may be a lie, and looking for clues in something that may just be a coincidence. Just list your most wanted characters under these conditions:

1. Has appeared on a Nintendo system before.
2. Cannot be a character who originated in another medium.

Here are my top ten in no particular order.

1. Krystal
2. Toad
3. Ridley
4. Mewtwo
5. Megaman
6. Kumatora
7. Tom Nook
8. K. Rool
9. Capt. Syrup
10. Lip

 

[libertyernie]

I'd like to restate my desire to see Pulseman in the game. His rights are owned directly by Game Freak if I'm not mistaken, and it certainly wouldn't be hard to get their permission. Also, a lot of his moves can be taken straight from his own game, a Sega Megadrive import available on the VC.

 

[Pieman0920]

I don't think Kamek builds machines....I mean he's a wizard after all. His main theme in his games is buffing up grunt enemies into giant boss forms, so having a giant goomba would make sense. Also I'd much rather have Kamek riding his broom as his up special instead of a generic teleportation. (Though I am aware of the fact that Kamek has teleported before)

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

I don't think that Pulseman has appeared on a Nintendo console.

So here are ten characters from me in no particular order.

Ryota Hayami (Wave Race)
Ridley (Metroid)
Geno (Super Mario RPG)
Little Mac (Punch-Out!!)
Isaac / Golden Sun rep (Golden Sun)
Tom Nook (Animal Crossing)
Dr. Lobe (Big Brain Academy)
Balloon Fighter (Balloon Fight)
K. Rool (Donkey Kong)
All returning characters (I know it's cheating putting this on as one entry, but still)

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Fun with quotes time...Oh boy...

I just need a good abbreviation to use for when I respond without quote boxes. I tried some nicknames but I think you didn't get them so it was kinda lame. Kinda digging TreKoops, actually.

Oh, sure. Usually most people use TK But that works too.

Funny how they were on the back of the box. Hey look, I see Wario, Pit, MK, and PT on the front.

Hey look, PT's a protaginist, MK's thrown in there on the box, and Wario is an important character. 11 of 21 starting characters shown, yet sonic and snake have the hype on the back of the box going "YEAH, WE HAVE CHARACTERS THAT HAVE APPEARED ON A NINTENDO CONSOLE BUT AREN'T OURS"

"3rd parties" as a category or concept does not excite people. It's the characters themselves that do that. People aren't asking for "3rd party reps," they want Sonic, Snake, Mega Man, whoever. The forbidden fruit angle doesn't suddenly make one character inherently better than another. It'd be like saying Bomberman is better than Ridley just because Nintendo owns the latter. I wonder how many of you would agree with that?

On the other hand: Ridley only appeals a certain portion of people. While say, Black Mage (Random example here) would appeal only a certain ammount; It appeals outside to all those SE Fans, namely final fantasy.

Anyway, the whole point is that we don't NEED more 3rd parties. Are they nice? Yeah. Are they better than certain Nintendo characters? They can be. Are they required? No, not at all. The game is about Nintendo characters, turns out it's alright to keep the focus on them.

Smash 4 would still be about Nintendo characters. It's not like we're adding in characters who have never been on a nintendo console; They're just characters who have shown love on other consoles and aren't completely owned by nintendo (Some of them, others haven't, ie travis touchdown) - It's not like we're asking for complete filler here. Some have still had affect on nintendo's history.

I don't see how that's really "Shifting away from the focus" - It's no more than brawl added. I mean, I can see MM Being the only one added, but It's certainly very possible for us to get a second rep. As said, we're in a less than 2 year timespan and 2 have already shown interest. With my recent vocal actions of Square Enix who knows where that can go?

Square Enix probably wouldn't be involved in developing the character. Sakurai said that he developed all the moves and animations for each character himself, including the third party characters and its pretty apparent that he doesn't go all too out of his way when it comes to research. Also, I wouldn't call putting two character non-identical characters together "easy" in any situation. With Slime and Chocobo, it seems people are more interested in what the character represents then praticality or whether or not the character would even be worth the effort.

I'm not; It's magic in a character, It's a slime riding on a chocobo (Slime could have seperate HP Or something, chocobo would be a fast character but have to be careful about speed, etc) with tons of great magic spells from SE Games and more - Why wouldn't it be worth it? I see a lot on Choco/Slime as a character. Maybe not as much as other characters from Square's library but It still has a lot unique - I can happily make movesets If you wish.

It's like if Geno were used to represent the Mario RPGs. More likely than not, people really don't care if the Mario RPGs get repped; people just want him because they believe he would be a fun character to play as and people usually have about the same ideas when they develop movesets for him. In a sense, would people generally care if Slime/chocobo was added? Would the amount of effort used to make the character interesting be worth the questionable payout among fans? With first party characters, it doesn't really matter because there really isn't a huge investment on Nintendo's part plus they have pretty much everyone that they and each of their second parties have made at their disposal. Obviously, with third party characters, it is pretty much limited to a few characters with maybe one or two people being practical choices especially when you consider liscensing too.

tl;dr: There hasn't been a moveset made and I think people only see this for what It's representing.

brb making moveset for your interest: (I need more DQ Influence in this)
Bv - Haste - This will make you faster than usual, but It takes time to use after you've used it once, and it has it's disadvantages by making you quite weaker. However as your speed goes back to regular, your speed goes back to normal as well.
B - Cure - You can cure yourself or a partner, however It takes a while to do and you can only do it once you've gained a good deal of damage. Sometimes this can fail too in a bad result.
B> - Thunder/Fire/Ice - One random one will come out, each having a disadvantage and advantage as opposed to the other, unsure on how you activate it to a different one but yeah.
B^ - The Chocobo spreads It's wings and fly, slime turns into a balloon.

FS - Ultima - Ultima covers on all 3 characters, and truthfully, there's no escape. All you can do is run to make the damage less!

"Unique Factor" - The Chocobo and Slime will be very similar to Ice Climbers, however Slime still has some control with the Chocobo unlike Nana being rather free willed, as he'll stay on Choc, thus It's rather hard to get him off. However; Slime has his own HP Bar (Undecided health) That works like Stanima that you CAN See. Of course, If an enemy kills that It'll recharge, it however takes time to. Certain characters will make it go down faster but they can't make it there regular damage. If Lucas PK Thunders him, It won't do 40 whatever, it will do 10-20ish on the slime itself.

Add in: How in God's name did Chocobo/Slime even became a "serious" topic.

I'm awesome. [/anit-modesty]

This is something I'd like to call speculation gone wild because this idea is freakishly unlikely as, already said, Square Enix doesn't have an obvious choice and the number of third party characters will no doubt be limited once again. To be completely honest, I think Snake would have remained the only third party character in Brawl if it weren't for the freakishly high demand for Sonic around the world. Sakurai doesn't seem to care all too much about third party characters aside from throwing fans a bone.

I don't know, speculating on anyone aside from Megaman at this point is kind of a fool's game because no one else really stacks up in terms of appeal or even interest from the third party developers. As people have mentioned, Travis is basically in a distant second because Suda 51 has expressed interest but, still, the demand really isn't there and, despite being a great game, NMH does really have the weight that Sonic and Metal Gear have. Again, it kind of becomes a matter if the idea is realistic given what we know at this time.

It's why we don't speculate; Don't think, just act. - Wolf.

Now then where was I? It doesn't have an obvious third-party choice; But IF This idea manages to flow around and we catch there attention mainly with it, Square Enix has a possibility of going
"Hmm...People want a character from our company in a Smash Bros game, we have DQ and FF, our two main franchises"
"That Chocobo and Slime idea seems to work well! I really like it; Let's contact them as soon as possible"

But as said; I'm not keeping hope attached for a SE Rep just yet (Well, not big hope) But this is the point where being vocal may really help. Heck; I'm not even totally sure on two third parties added, but on the other hand, I don't see a reason not to (Once it gets to three new ones, unless they're not completely random companies then eh...)

Of course however; Opinion's can change. He may see the success of Snake & Sonic and pull out the card again, or how they were viewed as. I'm not saying It's likely to happen but you never know.

Two thing to kep in mind:
First, hype doesn't create long term sales, but short term sales. Games that are really hyped have a short life span. Making a good game is what is going to create long term sellers. Adding bland or uninteresting third party characters would be counter productive.

And Choco/Slime falls under uninteresting? I never said to bring in six billion; I said that bringing in someone else iconic like MM for sure wouldn't hurt.

And adding third-parties won't keep them. Short-term hype gets them reeled in, the content is what gets them to stay. Overall, sales.

Second is the law of diminishing marginal utility. Basically, the more times you do this, the les it will work each time. Sonic and Snake worked at first, but Megaman in SSB4 will give less utility then Snake and Sonic did in Brawl.

Of course I'm not really expecting two to give as much utility as sonic (unless we get a gigantic bill of request spam), but it still gives more utility than say, adding in no third-party or megaman on his own.

Smash is a celebration of Nintendo's history. So, naturally, the focus is on Nintendo. Adding too many third party characters shifts the focus away from what the game's intended purpose was, making it feel cluttered and soulless (as in, not having the same feeling). Keeping it Nintendo focus is good overall as it is what Smash stands for. Basically, you wouldn't want to have a Smash game where you fight on top of a PS3 would you?

They're not completely non-nintendo: They've been on a nintendo console before. It'll still have the same feeling with adding in two TP's. It's not like we're adding in master chief just for looking cool.

If Brawl taught us anything, the number of third party characters will never grow expotentially and third parties will more than likely always be a small fraction of the roster. For Brawl, they made up about five percent.

I'm not really expecting more than two as said. I'm iffy on two but at this point, It's for sure possible.

I know the whole top things asked a lot, but I want to know what you guys WANT not so much think what is likely. We've been growing off of likelihood that can't be proven, stretched truths, sales, popularity in Japan that may be a lie, and looking for clues in something that may just be a coincidence. Just list your most wanted characters under these conditions:

1. Has appeared on a Nintendo system before.
2. Cannot be a character who originated in another medium.

Here are my top ten in no particular order.

1. Krystal
2. Toad
3. Ridley
4. Mewtwo
5. Megaman
6. Kumatora
7. Tom Nook
8. K. Rool
9. Capt. Syrup
10. Lip

Overall...
1.Claus/The MM
2.ChocoSlime/Square Enix Rep (I don't care who as long as It's important and from a game I've enjoyed a lot from them; ie geno/chrono/etc.
3.Isaac
4.Sukapon

*Insert Jr, Goroh, Ridley, Krystal, K.Rool, and...Wow, I've forgotten my own original top 10 already *

 

[Arcadenik]

That's a pretty good list, Kuma. We both want Toad. He's the only one on your list I really want the most. Here's mine, in no particular order.

1. Toad (he's great in SMB2 and I'm happy Toads are playable in NSMBWii)
2. Dixie Kong (I loved her in DKC2 and DKC3)
3. Meowth (my favorite Pokemon)
4. Tingle (he's my favorite Zelda character after the Triforce trio)
5. Duck Hunt Dog (I loved Duck Hunt on the NES)
6. Little Mac (Punch-Out are great NES and Wii games)
7. Starfy (his game is actually good and he would be interesting)
8. Gold with Chikorita, Quilava, and Feraligatr (Gold was my first Pokemon game)
9. Mega Man (I liked Mega Man X but I think the classic version deserves it more)
10. Simon Belmont (I loved the classic Castlevania games on the NES and SNES)

 

[Big-Cat]

That's a pretty good list, Kuma. We both want Toad. He's the only one on your list I really want the most. Here's mine, in no particular order.

1. Toad (he's great in SMB2 and I'm happy Toads are playable in NSMBWii)
2. Dixie Kong (I loved her in DKC2 and DKC3)
3. Meowth (my favorite Pokemon)
4. Tingle (he's my favorite Zelda character after the Triforce trio)
5. Duck Hunt Dog (I loved Duck Hunt on the NES)
6. Little Mac (Punch-Out are great NES and Wii games)
7. Starfy (his game is actually good and he would be interesting)
8. Gold with Chikorita, Quilava, and Feraligatr (Gold was my first Pokemon game)
9. Mega Man (I liked Mega Man X but I think the classic version deserves it more)
10. Simon Belmont (I loved the classic Castlevania games on the NES and SNES)

I believe it was you who got me wanting Toad.

 

[SmashChu]

And Choco/Slime falls under uninteresting? I never said to bring in six billion; I said that bringing in someone else iconic like MM for sure wouldn't hurt.

Honestly, this character idea makes no sence. I don't think people will be happy to see this character, but more confused. It's also odd as you're taking characters from different series. Is this about Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest. Also, how does it fight? What moves could it use? Why is a Slime riding a Chocobo in the first place? I don't think fans will like it.

Of course, my post was never directed at Chocobo/Slime. It was at adding third party characters.

And adding third-parties won't keep them. Short-term hype gets them reeled in, the content is what gets them to stay. Overall, sales.

A game like Smash doesn't need hype. A few people will buy it, they will show it to others, they'll like it, and they'll buy it. No one needs to be hyped. It just needs to get out there. Games like Wii Fit have 0 hype and sold amazingly.

Of course I'm not really expecting two to give as much utility as sonic (unless we get a gigantic bill of request spam), but it still gives more utility than say, adding in no third-party or megaman on his own.

You don't understand it.

Basically, marginal utility is additional satisfaction one gets from consuming another good. Total utility goes up as long as marginal utility is positive; however, marginal utility is negative each time. Basically, let's say I'm eating ice cream. The fist one gives me 10 utility. Well, the second one may only give me 8. The total utility is 18 but the marginal utility is 8 (the change in utility). Of course, when I get sick is when utility will drop.

Adding more third party characters will yield less excitement every time. Megaman will yield less excitement then Sonic. Third party character will only yeild less excitement, so there is no point to adding them for excitement. Adding Megaman makes sense because people want him, but others will not yeild the appropriate results. Also, there are issues with rights as well.

They're not completely non-nintendo: They've been on a nintendo console before. It'll still have the same feeling with adding in two TP's. It's not like we're adding in master chief just for looking cool.

Uggg, adding two Pokemon Trainers is the worst idea I've heard and it saddens me when ever it comes up. it just sucks.

The problem is a LOT of fans get the idea that they are not Nintendo characters. heck, Snake has nothing to go with Nintendo (which is why there were still quite a few people who didn't like the idea). It's obvious that fans will see it as becoming too much. Megaman is one people want because he is synonymous with Nintendo (like Sonic was). Others have a less relationship with Nintendo. Adding anyone outside of Megaman will not work well.

I'm not really expecting more than two as said. I'm iffy on two but at this point, It's for sure possible.

I'm not expecting more then Megaman. I've said why before.

 

[JBRPG]

You should read this!

Would you like to know what I think about when visiting this?

I thought up of a game mechanic system where the physics of many characters are improved based on physical status and abilities along with a more responsive and speedier combat system for Smash Bros players, Melee veterans, and competition purists to enjoy, but how about adding a power gague system that you would lose your damage power if you use the same moves or do nothing (slower draining than repeating the same move) whereas making a style of combat moves and knockouts (less than combat style) can earn you damage power and I want the percentage range to be small to keep the game balanced based on characters' power and strength.

Strong (-20%-15%)
Medium (-15%-25%)
Weak (-5%-30%)

Works like this:
Status of Power Levels <( (-1) - (0) -(1) - (2) -(3) )>
AT (-1) (100% OF DEDUCTION IN THE STATISTIC PERCENTAGE)
AT (0) YOUR DAMAGE POWER REMAINS NEUTRAL
FOR EVERY LEVEL GAIN, YOUR DAMAGE POWER INCREASES BY 33 1/3 % OF THE STATISTIC PERCENTAGE CONSECUTIVELY UNTIL AT LEVEL 3 (100% OF THE STATISTIC PERCENTAGE IN INCREASED POWERS)

Tips and reminders (if selected for next installment):
If you are sent out of the playing field in any level, the player's level on the meter is reverted to 0
Use the Special+Attack buttons to activate you Power Move (Higher level will cause greater, but shorter time span of damage attacks) but it reverts back to level 0.

That will be my implement for the next Super Smash Bros.

(P.S. The damage meter will be at the maximum from 999% to 9999% along with the damage ratio change to balance the use of combat styles to gain damage power and to knock your opponent out of the field.)

 

[Big-Cat]

JBRPG, the problem with this system of yours, from what I can understand, is that it gives too much of an advantage to players already winning. There's not much of a chance to make a comeback under this system of yours.

Since you want to discuss gameplay aspects, how about joining my Gameplay Discussion group? Just click on the first link in my sig and it'll take you there.

 

[JBRPG]

JBRPG, the problem with this system of yours, from what I can understand, is that it gives too much of an advantage to players already winning. There's not much of a chance to make a comeback under this system of yours.

Since you want to discuss gameplay aspects, how about joining my Gameplay Discussion group? Just click on the first link in my sig and it'll take you there.

I feel sorry about it, and I will like to join!

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Top 10 Wishlists?

Issac (Golden Sun, Awesome game, Awesome Character)

Black Knight (Fire Emblem, Great Antagonist, Unique aspect most FE characters lack)

Balloon Fighter (Balloon Fight, Awesome Retro, Would be really fun)

Young Link/ Toon Link being more like Young Link (I just really like the way Young Link Plays in Melee)

Mach Rider (Crazy potential for Uniqueness, another good retro character)

Roy (I like the heavier take on Marth)

Kaptain K. Rool (The coolest of K. Rool's various personalities, sick nasty antagonist)

Volke (I love the Assassin class, and Volke is just a beast)

Toon Ganon (To satisfy current Ganon-Haters, as well as give Toon Link an antagonist)

3rd party (Ubisoft is 3rd party right?): Altair (Assassin's Creed: Like I said, I dig assassins and he is the sickest Assassin in long time)

 

[.WC.]

And Choco/Slime falls under uninteresting? I never said to bring in six billion; I said that bringing in someone else iconic like MM for sure wouldn't hurt.

Assist trophy at best, imo.

 

[JBRPG]

Even though I have lots of Ideas for the SSB4 in features, it is often invaded by topics that talk about how characters work out and 3rd party welcoming debates. Please click on The features for SSB4 or Game Mechanics for SSB4 in my signature! Anyone can join. I will occasionally debate with others in this topic, so I encourage you to join!

 

[Mowrt620]

A Top fourteen, actually, style thing for me.....
no real specific order....,
1. Pac Man
2. Geno
3. Duck hunt dog
4. ridley
5. animal crosser
6. geno
7. sora (can't you tell by my sig and avatar? lol)
8. bowser jr.
9. isaac
10. dig dug
11. balloon fighter
12. king k. rool
13. megaman
14. bomberman

 

[DekuBoy]

Gimme, gimme, Tom Nook. Him, Little Mac, Ridley and K.Rool.

 

[Mowrt620]

Gimme, gimme, Tom Nook. Him, Little Mac, Ridley and K.Rool.

This is for everyone, Tom Nook is just a store owner, he doesn't do anything. Howabout Animal Crosser, he's the one who uses shovels, axes and such. And no Mr. Resetti, he can stay an assist trophy, cuz thats what he does best...

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

This is for everyone, Tom Nook is just a store owner, he doesn't do anything. Howabout Animal Crosser, he's the one who uses shovels, axes and such. And no Mr. Resetti, he can stay an assist trophy, cuz thats what he does best...

So then let's replace Ness with Paula.

Tom Nook has a definite personality and is a recognizable face of Animal Crossing, generic people can stay in the background.

 

[SmashChu]

So then let's replace Ness with Paula.

Tom Nook has a definite personality and is a recognizable face of Animal Crossing, generic people can stay in the background.

Animal Crosser is the star of the show. Tom Nook is a aside character. Note how the anime buts the crosser as the lead character, not Tom Nook.