[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Jerome]

Having a Bowsers Castle stage would be great and having the stage tilt back and forth would be cool too! I also thinking if an underwater stage would work.....mabey the characters would fight in a big air bubble....and it is possible to be knocked out of the bubble but you can't leave the bubble won your own.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

We should end this debate. It's going to go on for circles like the character discussions.

Shino, are you ready to post your flamebait post?

Yea sure...

My concpet is regarding...Clones. Yes Clones.

In melee I used all of the clone characters (Doc, Roy, Falco, Yink, and Ganon) over their home character (I never touch Pika or Pichu) and I find that the subtle differences bring the perfect spice to the game. everyone wants to see uber-unique and amazing new characters added to the next game, but why not just step back, throw more clones (multiple clones can be pyt in over one unique character) and enjoy a slightly less unqie roster.

People have brought up the pallette switch option, but as far as I am concerned, this would do no more that simply give them new skin, it would do nothing for their core gameplay. The allure of clones, for me at least, is that they provide an alternate way to play as popular character choices.

In Brawl we have Toon Link as basically a full on clone, Lucas, Falco, and Ganon (yea I'll put down my personal opinion here and group him here) as semi-clones. Noone seemed to upset about them...so here are my questions.

Should SSb4 have no clones? Full on clones (melee style)? or more semi-clones?

I vote real clones.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

^ That is what I was thinking about when I said I wanted to bring back all characters, including Young Link, Pichu, Dr. Mario, and Roy. They would just be unlockable in some frivolous way, and if there is something like SSE, they wouldn't have a major appearance, similar to unlocking Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf in it. They would just be there as they were on the side, but with a focus on the new unique characters.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yea sure...

My concpet is regarding...Clones. Yes Clones.

In melee I used all of the clone characters (Doc, Roy, Falco, Yink, and Ganon) over their home character (I never touch Pika or Pichu) and I find that the subtle differences bring the perfect spice to the game. everyone wants to see uber-unique and amazing new characters added to the next game, but why not just step back, throw more clones (multiple clones can be pyt in over one unique character) and enjoy a slightly less unqie roster.

People have brought up the pallette switch option, but as far as I am concerned, this would do no more that simply give them new skin, it would do nothing for their core gameplay. The allure of clones, for me at least, is that they provide an alternate way to play as popular character choices.

In Brawl we have Toon Link as basically a full on clone, Lucas, Falco, and Ganon (yea I'll put down my personal opinion here and group him here) as semi-clones. Noone seemed to upset about them...so here are my questions.

Should SSb4 have no clones? Full on clones (melee style)? or more semi-clones?

I vote real clones.

Toon Link is not a full on clone. He is way different from Link. I know that because I main Toon Link. His sword spin works differently from Link's because his version hits the opponent multiple times when he is on the ground doing this move while Link's version knocks the opponent away when he does this move on the ground. Toon Link's boomerang is easier to control and has better knockback than Link's Gale Boomerang and it doesn't even have the wind power like Link's. Toon Link's down+A move in the air is way different from Link's version because it makes him fall to the ground faster. Toon Link's version is based on the down thrust from The Minish Cap while Link's version is based on the down thrust from Zelda II. Toon Link is a semi clone like everyone else.

Full on clones (Melee style) offer little variety to the player because they barely play any different from the original characters. If we are going to have more clones (for the sake of increasing the roster number), I would like semi clones (Brawl style). The new original characters should be added in the game first before we resort to adding more clones.

Potential clones for SSB4
- Dr. Mario (Mario)
- Daisy (Peach)
- Rosalina (Peach, it is possible)
- Bowser Jr. (Bowser, it is possible)
- Donkey Kong Jr. (Donkey Kong)
- Young Link (Link)
- Toon Zelda / Toon Sheik (Zelda / Sheik, though Toon Sheik could have been a name placeholder for Tetra)
- Young Zelda / Young Sheik (Zelda / Sheik, if Sakurai wanted to make up Toon Sheik, he could make up Young Sheik, too)
- Dark Samus (Samus)
- Louie (Olimar)
- Slippy Toad (Fox)
- Leon Powalski (Fox)
- Krystal (Fox, it is possible)
- Black Shadow (Captain Falcon)
- Blood Falcon (Captain Falcon)
- Jody Summer (Captain Falcon)
- Pichu (Pikachu)
- Raichu (Pikachu)
- Plusle & Minun (Pikachu)
- Pachirisu (Pikachu)
- Roy (Marth)
- Ninten (Ness)
- Claus (Ness, I am not talking about Masked Man here)

 

[SmashChu]

SmashChu, please don't generalize. Most of the people here at SWF are fine with people playing however they want, competitive or not competitive.

(This is my first and last comment regarding the issue, unless I find something else in a reply to this I wanna jump on )

Yes, not EVERYONE is like this. That is why it is generalized. However, most of them were earned, not just attributed. The truth is the Smash community is the laughing stock of the competitive world by other communities and other Smash fans. The only ones who like competitive Smash are competitive Smash players. Brawl+ doesn't help as everyone sees it as them trying to make Melee 2.0 (there wouldn't have been a problem if Balance Brawl came first or if Brawl+ never existed).

 

[Pieman0920]

Have not posted here in a bit....

Jody Summer wouldn't work as a clone of Captain Falcon. If she could be a clone of anyone, it would be ZSS. (heck, she had a laser....ribbon or something in her special GX video)

Also, technically certain newcomers like Little Mac or Isaac (if you're going to go with him as the GS character who gets in) could have clones in the form of other boxers or Felix/New GS dude, respectively.

 

[libertyernie]

Pulseman could feasibly share Pikachu's B-moves. The Final Smash is already there.

 

[Arcadenik]

Have not posted here in a bit....

Jody Summer wouldn't work as a clone of Captain Falcon. If she could be a clone of anyone, it would be ZSS. (heck, she had a laser....ribbon or something in her special GX video)

Also, technically certain newcomers like Little Mac or Isaac (if you're going to go with him as the GS character who gets in) could have clones in the form of other boxers or Felix/New GS dude, respectively.

Just because Jody has a gun doesn't mean she would use it. Captain Falcon has a gun but he doesn't use it. So I wouldn't be surprised if Jody ended up a clone of Captain Falcon.

 

[Pieman0920]

Just because Jody has a gun doesn't mean she would use it. Captain Falcon has a gun but he doesn't use it. So I wouldn't be surprised if Jody ended up a clone of Captain Falcon.

I'm actually not aware of Jody having a gun in the games. She may have used one in the anime, but that's not really the point.

In any case, it just doesn't make sense to go with Falcon for her than ZSS. Jody may not have a gun to my recolection, but she could easily have a stun gun like Samus, and she has already shown a laser rope-ish thing that could work like ZSS's laser whip. Her body type also matches up with ZSS perfectly, and it wouldn't be that far out of the question for her to be using ZSS's attacks, though the Final Smash would have to be redone. In contrast, it would look completely akward for Jody to be using Falcon's knee, or winding up a Falcon Punch.

 

[Hero Dude]

Why are we arguing about Jody Summer?

She isn't likely at all. Arcadenik, don't attack me I know what you are pointing out.
But Jody isn't worth wasting a discussion on.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, I could see Jody using similar A moves like Zero Suit Samus. But her specials are probably going to be based on Captain Falcon's specials. This is Sakurai we are talking about. I don't think he cares if it would look weird for Jody to scream "Falcon Punch!" LOL

I doubt she would be playable in SSB4 anyway. She is not as important as Samurai Goroh and there is a small chance Samurai Goroh would become playable in SSB4. F-Zero doesn't seem too popular compared to other lesser franchises like Metroid, Star Fox, and Fire Emblem. There is a reason those franchises each got a new character in Brawl and F-Zero didn't.

If we are going to get another Captain Falcon clone, I would like it to be Captain Rainbow. He is a tokusatsu-style superhero like Captain Falcon. He would be an interesting mix of Captain Falcon and Ness (he uses yo-yos, too).

 

[Big-Cat]

Yea sure...

My concpet is regarding...Clones. Yes Clones.

In melee I used all of the clone characters (Doc, Roy, Falco, Yink, and Ganon) over their home character (I never touch Pika or Pichu) and I find that the subtle differences bring the perfect spice to the game. everyone wants to see uber-unique and amazing new characters added to the next game, but why not just step back, throw more clones (multiple clones can be pyt in over one unique character) and enjoy a slightly less unqie roster.

People have brought up the pallette switch option, but as far as I am concerned, this would do no more that simply give them new skin, it would do nothing for their core gameplay. The allure of clones, for me at least, is that they provide an alternate way to play as popular character choices.

In Brawl we have Toon Link as basically a full on clone, Lucas, Falco, and Ganon (yea I'll put down my personal opinion here and group him here) as semi-clones. Noone seemed to upset about them...so here are my questions.

Should SSb4 have no clones? Full on clones (melee style)? or more semi-clones?

I vote real clones.

I see what you're saying. You're saying that the clones have allowed us to have alternate styles of the same character. I'm actually satisfied by this.

However, I would much prefer semi-clones. I feel that semi-clones would allow the developers to use a similar moveset to someone else and use it in an entirely different way in an easier fashion. For example, I have Kumatora who would be a semi-clone of Lucas. Changing a couple of Lucas' moves and giving her PK Ground would have her play very differently from Lucas if done right. Heck, just changing one of the specials can make a gigantic difference.

Semi-clones or not, no one should have the same Final Smash. What they did with PK Starstorm and the RANDOMASUTA!!!! was just asinine.

 

[Jerome]

I'd rather see Ninten in the next Smash. I don't want Claus or Kumatora in because we already have a Mother 3 character. I know Ninten looks like Ness but can't Nintendo change Ninten's design all together?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

The thing is: We don't need clones. In melee the reason we had clones was to bulk up the roster in rush of the game. In brawl If you take per say Bowser Jr and make him a clone then fans are going to continue whining at sakurai and the sorts...Look at a friend I'd like to call "Landmaster" - And then If you say DO Declone him, you still have people whining over similar physics and people who mained him complaining...Basically in a nutshell anything sakurai does with them and game after will get complaints.

So honestly; I don't really see any reason (ASIDES From Downloadable Content possibility) Really keep the roster to the next characters in line for each series. I personally think similarish costumes are the way to go, Like what Kid Claus and Overalls Wario got.

As for semi-clones/Similar to Lucas and Luigi: If need be (Hi roy sup) then do it.

Also:

I'd rather see Ninten in the next Smash. I don't want Claus in because we already have a Mother 3 character. I know Ninten looks like Ness but can't Nintendo change Ninten's design all together?

"I don't want Mewtwo; too much first gen. Plusle & Minun for brawlz!"
All seriousness put to side:

It's not that ninten looks like ness; It's that Ninten and Ness have absolutely nothing in attacks sparring them apart from each other unlike Lucas and Ness in there prespective games, and simply If you change him a lot It just would be awkward and shoe-whoring in a character who's similar to another to represent another game which has really nothing asides from "It hasn't been repped!" To place it over M2 and M3. - Really, He's alternative costume material at best like what Overall's Wario is. - If we're to shoewhore in anything to represent "Different Games" In my honest opinion then, Pokemon could use it more (In before first generation fanboys )

Truth be told however: Chances are we won't see any new Mother rep in Smash 4, simply because there's third-parties (MM, TT, etc), New Series (Isaac, Captain Rainbow, etc), Retro's (Mac, Sukapon), And series that are rather underrepresented along with ones that simply have more games/more sales/etc (DK, Metroid, F-Zero) Are needed far more than adding a third rep to the mother series.

I doubt she would be playable in SSB4 anyway. She is not as important as Samurai Goroh and there is a small chance Samurai Goroh would become playable in SSB4. F-Zero doesn't seem too popular compared to other lesser franchises like Metroid, Star Fox, and Fire Emblem. There is a reason those franchises each got a new character in Brawl and F-Zero didn't.

Uh, metroid just got samus with her suit off.

But anyways; F-Zero actually sold a lot...About 8m in copies altogether; Managed to outsell the FE Series. It simply does deserve a second rep with Falcon, but does it deserve anymore than that? No, not really.

 

[Arcadenik]

Mother does not need three characters. Ness represents Mother 2 because he is the main protagonist of that game. Ness looks exactly like Ninten, the main protagonist of Mother, that he could pass off as Ninten and represent Mother in Ninten's place. Lucas represents Mother 3 because he is the main protagonist of that game. Also, Mother is now a dead franchise. Itoi, the creator of the franchise, already stated that Mother 3 is the final game of the series. This franchise also have three games and it would be overrepped if it had 3 characters.

Also, if this franchise gets a third character, why should it be a character from Mother 3 (or even Mother 2)? If Kumatora or Masked Man or whoever is from Mother 3 is added, it is like saying Mother 3 is more important than Mother 2. If Jeff or Paula or whoever is from Mother 2 is added, it is like saying Mother 2 is more important than Mother 3. If this franchise is to get fair representation, Ninten has to be added so to balance the franchise - but that is not necessary because Ness already looks exactly like Ninten that he could pass off as Ninten. That's why Mother is complete just like Kirby.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

But anyways; F-Zero actually sold a lot...About 8m in copies altogether; Managed to outsell the FE Series. It simply does deserve a second rep with Falcon, but does it deserve anymore than that? No, not really.

I like how F-Zero isn't worthy of more than two characters, but Star Fox, Fire Emblem, and Mother are worth three or four each.

 

[Jerome]

Mother does not need three characters. Ness represents Mother 2 because he is the main protagonist of that game. Ness looks exactly like Ninten, the main protagonist of Mother, that he could pass off as Ninten and represent Mother in Ninten's place. Lucas represents Mother 3 because he is the main protagonist of that game. Also, Mother is now a dead franchise. Itoi, the creator of the franchise, already stated that Mother 3 is the final game of the series. This franchise also have three games and it would be overrepped if it had 3 characters.

Also, if this franchise gets a third character, why should it be a character from Mother 3 (or even Mother 2)? If Kumatora or Masked Man or whoever is from Mother 3 is added, it is like saying Mother 3 is more important than Mother 2. If Jeff or Paula or whoever is from Mother 2 is added, it is like saying Mother 2 is more important than Mother 3. If this franchise is to get fair representation, Ninten has to be added so to balance the franchise - but that is not necessary because Ness already looks exactly like Ninten that he could pass off as Ninten. That's why Mother is complete just like Kirby.

Nintendo just needs to change Ninten's design. Besides Young Link looks like Link but Young Link was in Melee anyways. Does it really matter if Ninten looks like Ness? I'm sure if Ninten is in the next one and they did not change his design, very few people would get them mixed up.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Great, the mother discussion again Edit for Toise:

I like how F-Zero isn't worthy of more than two characters, but Star Fox, Fire Emblem, and Mother are worth three or four each.

Oh, forgot about black shadow for a second.

If any series is to get 2+ Reps, chances are It'll be F-Zero, but I just can't quite see him happening due to the little attention Sakurai have given, but only time shall tell. (Hey, how about we just give Black Shadow ganon's moveset and give ganon a sword so people will shut up? I may have found the solution )

Mother does not need three characters. Ness represents Mother 2 because he is the main protagonist of that game. Ness looks exactly like Ninten, the main protagonist of Mother, that he could pass off as Ninten and represent Mother in Ninten's place. Lucas represents Mother 3 because he is the main protagonist of that game. Also, Mother is now a dead franchise. Itoi, the creator of the franchise, already stated that Mother 3 is the final game of the series. This franchise also have three games

As noted: I honestly agree. As probably at least one of Claus's most major supporters, I really do think Mother does not deserve 3 reps At least in Smash 4 (Note that) but I do have some things I'd like to point out

and it would be overrepped if it had 3 characters.

Toise worded this well but I'll do a re-run: Overrepped is having more than the series important characters. No, Ness and Lucas aren't the only important characters to it. It comes down to fanbases; Sakurai still has franchises that deserve more (Or just in general) pleasing and additions (Hello F-Zero) And New/Retro/Third-Party stuff.

Also, if this franchise gets a third character, why should it be a character from Mother 3 (or even Mother 2)? If Kumatora or Masked Man or whoever is from Mother 3 is added, it is like saying Mother 3 is more important than Mother 2. If Jeff or Paula or whoever is from Mother 2 is added, it is like saying Mother 2 is more important than Mother 3.

I'll put it easily: Because Masked Man is the last important character to the series that has yet to be in smash (THAT WOULD WORK, Well asides from porky but that one's debateable and up in the air due to the whole boss/AT Thing) - Kumatora/Jeff/Paula/Etc are pretty much just partners with little to no dialogue as ness already has most of there moves anyways.

If this franchise is to get fair representation, Ninten has to be added so to balance the franchise - but that is not necessary because Ness already looks exactly like Ninten that he could pass off as Ninten.

The point is It doesn't need fair representation: Ninten is simply very similar to ness unlike Lucas and not just in attacks. Really, his A Moves will be...Uh...Also smashing? He's alternative costume material still, as he does deserve that (And giygas needs an appearence in smash in at least some way =l)

That's why Mother is complete just like Kirby.

No; It's not. It's stalled off from completion for probably at least one game due to not being as important as most franchises represented in smash (Nonetheless, in general)

Nintendo just needs to change Ninten's design. Besides Young Link looks like Link but Young Link was in Melee anyways. Does it really matter if Ninten looks like Ness? I'm sure if Ninten is in the next one and they did not change his design, very few people would get them mixed up.

Melee was rushed with clones, just as an FYI. But anyways; I'm pretty sure Sakurai has stated something about characters with a similar build-up before. The point is that unless It's a clone or Alt costume, the only reason to add ninten would be "Repping Mother 1"

 

[Pieman0920]

Well, I could see Jody using similar A moves like Zero Suit Samus. But her specials are probably going to be based on Captain Falcon's specials. This is Sakurai we are talking about. I don't think he cares if it would look weird for Jody to scream "Falcon Punch!" LOL

That just seems to be you thinking that it would look funny though. No F-Zero character has any real established attacks (the real reason I think that F-Zero is only viewed to get about 2 reps top, while other series like SF, FE, and EB get more than that) but giving Jody Falcon's specials makes very little sense, especially when she is fully capable of having ZSS's specials, mostly because she's actually used similar things. Honestly, if you think Sakurai has that much disregard for specials, then why not say that K.Rool would get in as a DK clone?

I doubt she would be playable in SSB4 anyway. She is not as important as Samurai Goroh and there is a small chance Samurai Goroh would become playable in SSB4. F-Zero doesn't seem too popular compared to other lesser franchises like Metroid, Star Fox, and Fire Emblem. There is a reason those franchises each got a new character in Brawl and F-Zero didn't.

I'll agree that I don't see Jody getting in at all either, but rather my argument is that if she did get in, and if she was a clone, that there would be a better pick than Falcon. And as I said above, F-Zero has fewer people asking for characters from it, due to the fact that the characters really are not fighters.

If we are going to get another Captain Falcon clone, I would like it to be Captain Rainbow. He is a tokusatsu-style superhero like Captain Falcon. He would be an interesting mix of Captain Falcon and Ness (he uses yo-yos, too).

We don't need another Falcon clone, and if Captain Rainbow was in, I'm sure he could have his own original moveset, due partly to the fact that he does have established abilities that don't really match up to Falcon.

 

[BBQTV]

It was a poll about adding Mortal Kombat characters into the game.

no

Elaborate.

well because everyone attacking eacth other

 

[Arcadenik]

Jerome, there is a huge difference between a boy and a man like Young Link and Link. Even Pichu and Pikachu looked different from each other. There are no differences between look-alikes like Ninten and Ness.

Thirdkoopa, the Mother franchise is complete. It has all three main protagonists in. Ninten is represented through Ness so Ness represents both Mother and Mother 2 while Lucas represents Mother 3.

Toise, Fire Emblem and Mother are fine as is because both of them have only the main protagonists (no supporting characters) as playable characters. Even Metroid got Zero Suit Samus who is really the main protagonist without the Power Suit. But I don't think Star Fox even needed Falco and Wolf in the first place. They were originally added as last-minute filler clones anyway. Captain Falcon is the main protagonist of F-Zero which is fine but everyone else are the supporting cast. Your sarcastic post sounded like you wanted more F-Zero characters because you are jealous that the other franchises have more characters than F-Zero.

 

[Hero Dude]

We don't need another Falcon clone, and if Captain Rainbow was in, I'm sure he could have his own original moveset, due partly to the fact that he does have established abilities that don't really match up to Falcon.

He has plenty of moveset material. His down B could turn him into nick.
But Rainbow has, along with his yo-yo, rainbow beams, and attacks based on his actions on Mimin island.
As for Nick, he golfs, plays volleyand does many other things that could inspire moves.

Cough*Trying to change subject*Cough
Cough*Don't talk about Mother*Cough
Cough*Extremely contreversial*Cough

I think I got that out of my system.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Thirdkoopa, the Mother franchise is complete. It has all three main protagonists in. Ninten is represented through Ness so Ness represents both Mother and Mother 2 while Lucas represents Mother 3.

That logic is saying: Pika and PT Rep Generation 1 and Lucario reps the most recent game. No need for Jiggs/Mewtwo/Etc.

The thing is; Claus is an important character still that has priority into the series (Well, I'd say Giygas is personally far more important in M1/2 But he has no shot in hell...However Mt.Itoi/Giygas's Lair should be a stage as Gamenerd suggested) - Mother is by any means not in kirby's state. Kirby series have every character viable to it (Takes priority too, ie: nothing about marx takes priority over daroach, same with jeff/paula/kuma/etc)? Yes. Mother? Nope; I still see important characters.

However; It is at least close on completition. If I'd put it anywhere I'd put it close to the Mario/LoZ Series on rather fishy.

 

[Arcadenik]

Pokemon =/= Mother.

One Pokemon game could easily make more money than Mother, Earthbound, Mother 1+2, and Mother 3 put together. That's how successful and popular Pokemon is. That's why Pokemon can get away with adding extra characters like Mewtwo, Lucario, and Jigglypuff and Mother can't.

If you want to add more important characters from the Mother series to complete the franchise, why does it have to be Masked Man? There are many other important characters who are just as good as Masked Man like Flint, Paula, Porky, etc. Mother is complete, you just want Masked Man. It is like wanting Daroach or Marx for SSB4 when Kirby is complete.

Hero Dude, Nick doesn't fight. That's why he has to transform into Captain Rainbow. I think it would be for the best if Captain Rainbow's entrance had Nick transforming into Captain Rainbow before the match starts.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Pokemon =/= Mother.

One Pokemon game could easily make more money than Mother, Earthbound, Mother 1+2, and Mother 3 put together. That's how successful and popular Pokemon is. That's why Pokemon can get away with adding extra characters like Mewtwo, Lucario, and Jigglypuff and Mother can't.

But If you've looked, characters don't really get added mainly based on sales (Completed faster? Yes) People wouldn't die If claus got included, It's just like how SF Got 3 reps on a 35 character roster - But as said the series is rather small, so does it really need to be justified yet? No, probably not at least until Smash 5

Flint

...Is only there at the beginning of the game and really doesn't have much to the plotline.

Paula

...Is a generic partner like how most pokemon aren't really that relevant.

Porky

Debateable.

Mother is complete, you just want Masked
Man. It is like wanting Daroach or Marx for SSB4 when Kirby is complete.

Mother isn't complete, doesn't have all It's important characters (Well, protaginists? Yes, It has that) - But chances are It won't even get a third rep in smash 4 even IF The future turns out different, and this is rather the Smash 4 thread, so there's not much else where this discussion can go. Honestly; as stated I'm fully fine with that as long as the Kid Claus alternative costume appears back on lucas.

 

[Arcadenik]

As I have stated before and many times before, the only reason we got Falco and Wolf in the first place was not because they were so important to the franchise that they needed to be in the game ASAP! No, it was because both of them were added as last-minute filler clones. I feel I need to make something clear here.

Falco was a last-minute filler clone in Melee... but he was not a last-minute filler clone in Brawl as he was planned to be added in Brawl from the beginning. But Wolf definitely was a last-minute filler clone in Brawl.

So for SSB4, it would probably be fine if Star Fox had all three back and not add more characters (ie. Krystal) since the roster would be bigger and the Star Fox franchise would probably get at least one new game before SSB4 (meaning it would still remain small compared to other franchises) but at least it would not appear to be overrepped by then.

 

[Scufo]

I am a huge Mother fan. Like really huge. Like "Mother is the greatest franchise ever" huge.

And even I think its Smash representation is complete.

Not only is Mother a relatively small franchise to begin with, but Ness and Lucas are really the only ones that lend themselves as reps.

Having the Masked Man on the roster also completely conflicts with his tragic role in Mother 3.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

I am a huge Mother fan. Like really huge. Like "Mother is the greatest franchise ever" huge.

Well, good then.

And even I think its Smash representation is complete.

Not only is Mother a relatively small franchise to begin with, but Ness and Lucas are really the only ones that lend themselves as reps.

Mother is popular in Japan, where Sakurai mostly looks too when he is deciding roster choices. Masked Man is one of the most popular Mother characters, as well as being an important character in Mother 3.

Having the Masked Man on the roster also completely conflicts with his tragic role in Mother 3.

Please explain.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

As I have stated before and many times before, the only reason we got Falco and Wolf in the first place was not because they were so important to the franchise that they needed to be in the game ASAP! No, it was because both of them were added as last-minute filler clones. I feel I need to make something clear here.

Falco was a last-minute filler clone in Melee... but he was not a last-minute filler clone in Brawl as he was planned to be added in Brawl from the beginning. But Wolf definitely was a last-minute filler clone in Brawl.

So for SSB4, it would probably be fine if Star Fox had all three back and not add more characters (ie. Krystal) since the roster would be bigger and the Star Fox franchise would probably get at least one new game before SSB4 (meaning it would still remain small compared to other franchises) but at least it would not appear to be overrepped by then.

Wolf wasn't "A last minute filler clone" Because truthfully: He isn't filler (His moveset is pretty unique asides from debateable B Moves from the other two SF Members; cool guy) - Really, Over representation is when you have characters a series REALLY Doesn't need.

Oh, and the entire roster was made in 2005.

To save myself some time, I'll link to toise's post which explains "Overpopulation" Rather clear: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8651121&postcount=27033

And If Falco was a last minute clone then why wasn't he booted unlike Doc, Pichu, and Roy?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Toise, Fire Emblem and Mother are fine as is because both of them have only the main protagonists (no supporting characters) as playable characters. Even Metroid got Zero Suit Samus who is really the main protagonist without the Power Suit. But I don't think Star Fox even needed Falco and Wolf in the first place. They were originally added as last-minute filler clones anyway. Captain Falcon is the main protagonist of F-Zero which is fine but everyone else are the supporting cast. Your sarcastic post sounded like you wanted more F-Zero characters because you are jealous that the other franchises have more characters than F-Zero.

So for SSB4, it would probably be fine if Star Fox had all three back and not add more characters (ie. Krystal) since the roster would be bigger and the Star Fox franchise would probably get at least one new game before SSB4 (meaning it would still remain small compared to other franchises) but at least it would not appear to be overrepped by then.

First things first: while Falco was a last-second addition, Wolf was not. "Last-second" means late in development, not sometime with well over a year remaining. Sakurai had more than enough time to go with anyone else just as easily.

Second, the fact that he has no qualms with adding major supporting characters (rather than only main protagonists) to a series that hasn't done anything special shows that he's not the minimalist you make him out to be. Which is good, because really, main characters only? Who in their right mind would make the rules for entry so arbitrary?

Last thing I want to point out (and this is something all of you miss) is that Sakurai really doesn't care about the status of the series themselves, only the characters. I don't know how many times I have to point that out. Look at how each series was doing during each Smash game, then compare the number of characters they got. Almost none of them add up.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sakurai never considered adding anyone from Mother 3 except for Lucas. He had always wanted to add Lucas since the first Smash. He wanted to add Lucas in Melee but couldn't do that because Mother 3 was cancelled for the Nintendo 64 at that time so he decided to keep Ness in Melee. After Mother 3 finally came out on the Game Boy Advance, Sakurai was more than happy to finally add Lucas in Brawl. And now the Mother franchise is complete.

 

[Hero Dude]

Hey, what are all of your oppinions on the Duck Hunt dog?

I think he would be the best WTF character added so far, if he made it in.
Likely more of an AT, taking mac's place.

 

[Arcadenik]

You all know what I think of Duck Hunt Dog. I think he would be hilarious as an unlockable WTF retro fighter like Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B. were in Melee and Brawl. But why do you ask? Almost everyone here are against the idea of the Duck Hunt Dog becoming playable in Smash.

 

[Hero Dude]

I ask becouse I fell like he would be a great addition. Took my NES out of my closet like an hour ago.
It seems that he is a very memorable figure, but........not for a good reason.
My father tried to play, and spent more time trying to shoot the dog than the ducks.

May I ask WHY they are against it?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Duck hunt dog, yay less "wait important characters wait not wait yes"

Anyhow; I personally think that the WTF Character should go to Sukapon. Duck Hunt dog could work, and he's had a pretty important influence on nintendo. I at least think It's reasonable to give Duck Hunt a stage. Scratch that, It needs a stage. So much stage potential in at least that.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

May I ask WHY they are against it?

He's one of the most hated characters in video gaming.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

The Dog is one of the most hated characters in gaming, so no, he shouldn't be playable. AT would be kinda funny though if they throw in the ducks too (kill ducks for some kind of bonus, fail and... yeah).

I don't know why people think we need a WTF character, assuming the definition of WTF is simply "really obscure character" and that's it. G&W and ROB would be better classified as "obscure character that in retrospect was totally a good idea;" they've got way more than initial shock value going for them.

 

[DekuBoy]

Ignore this post please. Accident.

 

[DekuBoy]

Wolf wasn't "A last minute filler clone" Because truthfully: He isn't filler (His moveset is pretty unique asides from debateable B Moves from the other two SF Members; cool guy) - Really, Over representation is when you have characters a series REALLY Doesn't need.

Oh, and the entire roster was made in 2005.

To save myself some time, I'll link to toise's post which explains "Overpopulation" Rather clear: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8651121&postcount=27033

And If Falco was a last minute clone then why wasn't he booted unlike Doc, Pichu, and Roy?

Difference is, Falco is an important character to his series and was supported for Melee. The other 3 though, were not very popular at the time.( Heck, Roy didn't even exist in a Fire Emblem game at the time.)

 

[Arcadenik]

*remembers Tingle* Oh great. You just opened the can of worms again, Toise. Just because a hated character gets add in Smash doesn't mean people won't buy the game.