[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

this was ment for the previous page zam

The only thing I said pertaining to Street Fighter was that Smash should do an expansion disc like SSF4 as opposed to DLC.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Technically Kuma, You've said that we should have stuff from "other" fighting games or stuff in Smash. I'm not trying to offend you, just justifying BBQTV.

 

[Big-Cat]

Technically Kuma, You've said that we should have stuff from "other" fighting games or stuff in Smash. I'm not trying to offend you, just justifying BBQTV.

No offense taken. To be honest, I don't see anything wrong with having material similar to other games. We can't be isolationist about this. We need to be open to ideas from other games. For example, I want to be able to cancel from normal attacks into special attacks.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I'd rather keep Smash it's unique self. It still would be I know but we shouldn't start borrowing anything non-character from other games until later imo

 

[Big-Cat]

When is "later" to you?

 

[BBQTV]

Technically Kuma, You've said that we should have stuff from "other" fighting games or stuff in Smash. I'm not trying to offend you, just justifying BBQTV.

thanks zam i thought brawl was fine zam what could they possibley do new sept better online bigger roster more trophies more extra stuff basically a lot of stuff zam a update thing wouldn't be so bad sept i and many wouldn't want to pay for it zam does anyone think we should have a small update [free of charge of course] cuz the next smash is probably around the year 99999999999 well maybe not that long but you get the idea zam

 

[ScoobyCafe]

I'd rather keep Smash it's unique self. It still would be I know but we shouldn't start borrowing anything non-character from other games until later imo

Smash Bros. is unique in the sense of it's unorthodox approach to the fighting game genre. Smash will still be Smash if we were able to 'cancel normal attacks into special attacks' or whatever. You know this, though.

Another thing that irks me about your post is that 'until later' part. Be honest, you don't want this type of change, and it's this type of conservatism that I don't necessarily like. No offense, but you're like a Republican--instead of being open-minded, you confine yourself in a shell, ignoring the realm of possibilities and changes. You're content with what you have, even if the gaming world continues to change around you, introducing new things and etc.

It's funny, because when I tell people why I don't play Brawl yet play Melee, they usually tell me I'm not willing or unable to adapt to change. Well, in essence, isn't that what you're doing? Being unwilling, using delay tactics to make it seem as if your not opposed to said change?

Again, no disrespect. I may sound kinda angry in this post. but I'm not.

 

[Big-Cat]

thanks zam i thought brawl was fine zam what could they possibley do new sept better online bigger roster more trophies more extra stuff basically a lot of stuff zam a update thing wouldn't be so bad sept i and many wouldn't want to pay for it zam does anyone think we should have a small update [free of charge of course] cuz the next smash is probably around the year 99999999999 well maybe not that long but you get the idea zam

No offense, but you sound like an Animal Crossing character with you constantly using "zam."

You want to know what they could do?

1. Better balancing
2. Adding hitstun
3. A tag-team mode
4. Deep gameplay mechanics that don't derive from glitch exploitation
5. A whole lot of other things.

You can't just apply "bigger, better" to the existing stuff and call it a sequel.

And if you don't want to pay for an update, then you can just play vanilla Smash.

@Scooby
I wouldn't use the term "Republican" to describe this. "Extreme conservatism" would be a better choice. Not all Republicans are against change. Some just don't want radical change.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Smash Bros. is unique in the sense of it's unorthodox approach to the fighting game genre. Smash will still be Smash if we were able to 'cancel normal attacks into special attacks' or whatever. You know this, though.

Another thing that irks me about your post is that 'until later' part. Be honest, you don't want this type of change, and it's this type of conservatism that I don't necessarily like. No offense, but you're like a Republican--instead of being open-minded, you confine yourself in a shell, ignoring the realm of possibilities and changes. You're content with what you have, even if the gaming world continues to change around you, introducing new things and etc.

It's funny, because when I tell people why I don't play Brawl yet play Melee, they usually tell me I'm not willing or unable to adapt to change. Well, in essence, isn't that what you're doing? Being unwilling, using delay tactics to make it seem as if your not opposed to said change?

Again, no disrespect. I may sound kinda angry in this post. but I'm not.

I'd love some change to Smash but taking mechanics a or whatever from other fighting games isn't exactly change, rather migrating. I've heard people say that Sakurai said that he didn't want to make another Smash just to add new characters. So there will be change no matter what besides Characters/Stages.

I want to ask a question,

How many of you would be joyed or thrilled or happy in some way if there was another Smash with new characters/stages/and other things but not every thing you wanted?

Now how many of you would be even happier if at least one of your favorite characters got in?

 

[ScoobyCafe]

I'd love some change to Smash but taking mechanics a or whatever from other fighting games isn't exactly change, rather migrating. I've heard people say that Sakurai said that he didn't want to make another Smash just to add new characters. So there will be change no matter what besides Characters/Stages.

Smash does that constantly, though. Perhaps not implementing whatever mechanic as it is in other games, but, for lack of better word, smash-ifying said mechanic. For example: Final Smashes are basically supers from other games. Percentage is basically a health bar from other games. etc.

Again, Smash is only unique in the sense that it's approach to fighting games is unorthodox. Is it change? Of course, in the sense that it's something new to Smash and would possibly have an impact on how the game is played.

I want to ask a question,

How many of you would be joyed or thrilled or happy in some way if there was another Smash with new characters/stages/and other things but not every thing you wanted?

Now how many of you would be even happier if at least one of your favorite characters got in?

If it's only new stages, new characters, new events, etc. and nothing new introduced to the gameplay, then I'll be upset, because to me, gameplay trumps all of that.

I don't want Brawl 2.0 or Melee 2.0--see how Melee clearly is a step-up from SSB? That's what I want, a bigger, better step-up. I want something better than Melee. Brawl didn't give me that, so I hope Sakurai or whoever takes Smash back to it's roots and build from the ground up, delivering something legitimately outstanding.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

If it's only new stages, new characters, new events, etc. and nothing new introduced to the gameplay, then I'll be upset, because to me, gameplay trumps all of that.

I don't want Brawl 2.0 or Melee 2.0--see how Melee clearly is a step-up from SSB? That's what I want, a bigger, better step-up. I want something better than Melee. Brawl didn't give me that, so I hope Sakurai or whoever takes Smash back to it's roots and build from the ground up, delivering something legitimately outstanding.

I didn't mean just that, I mean just not every thing you want. I wasn't picky about Brawl just because it wasn't perfect. I honestly didn't care til it came out. What just got me excited was the "new" feeling of it. Look at how much of a change it was from Melee to Brawl, I looked and saw all those new characters and new looks and was just like "yay! this is awesome!" Honestly if they put in some completely random character for EB/Mother I'd be fine with it because it would be new and feel new. Even if s/he was cloned off of Ness or Lucas, I wouldn't care. Now there are things I want but the thing I want most is SSB4 itself no matter how bad (exaggeration).

Would you be excited for SSB4 partly because it's there and "new"?

 

[BBQTV]

No offense, but you sound like an Animal Crossing character with you constantly using "zam."

You want to know what they could do?

1. Better balancing
2. Adding hitstun
3. A tag-team mode
4. Deep gameplay mechanics that don't derive from glitch exploitation
5. A whole lot of other things.

You can't just apply "bigger, better" to the existing stuff and call it a sequel.

And if you don't want to pay for an update, then you can just play vanilla Smash.

@Scooby
I wouldn't use the term "Republican" to describe this. "Extreme conservatism" would be a better choice. Not all Republicans are against change. Some just don't want radical change.

i've never played animal crossing so i wouldn't know zam their kinda is a tag team thing and whats vanilla smash zam

 

[DekuBoy]

I think we should all spam Nintendo with eMails about an expansion to Brawl, and maybe if enough people would be willing to pay for it they would do it. ....................Nah probably not.

I wish they kept the game in development for another year. Then we could've gotten the Forbidden 7 amongst other things...

 

[Neo Exdeath]

i've never played animal crossing so i wouldn't know zam their kinda is a tag team thing and whats vanilla smash zam

Vanilla Smash is Brawl without hacks. Also, why do you keep on saying "zam"? It's getting annoying.

 

[BBQTV]

Vanilla Smash is Brawl without hacks. Also, why do you keep on saying "zam"? It's getting annoying.

oh hi neo so regular brawl is vanilla smash why they'd call it that [for neo and only this thread i'll stop saying]

 

[ScoobyCafe]

I didn't mean just that, I mean just not every thing you want. I wasn't picky about Brawl just because it wasn't perfect. I honestly didn't care til it came out. What just got me excited was the "new" feeling of it. Look at how much of a change it was from Melee to Brawl, I looked and saw all those new characters and new looks and was just like "yay! this is awesome!" Honestly if they put in some completely random character for EB/Mother I'd be fine with it because it would be new and feel new. Even if s/he was cloned off of Ness or Lucas, I wouldn't care. Now there are things I want but the thing I want most is SSB4 itself no matter how bad (exaggeration).

Honestly, though I may argue here about w/e, I truly don't care all too much who joins SSB4. I know better not to expect a perfect game. The only thing I desperately want is a quality game. You could add as much glitz and glamor you want, but never forget that it's always quality > quantity. I couldn't say what you said in that last bit there, even if it's an exaggeration.

It reminds me of the Sonic fans who'd buy crappy games just because of Sonic, love it, thus developers continue to make crappy games, and fans continue to buy them. If this happens to Smash... oh boy, this picture sums up how I would feel.

Would you be excited for SSB4 partly because it's there and "new"?

Sure, I'd be somewhat excited, but that doesn't mean I'll buy the game day 1.

After Brawl, there will be no more day 1 purchases as far as Smash is concerned.

 

[BBQTV]

are you calling brawl crap? thats a big no no

 

[ScoobyCafe]

are you calling brawl crap? thats a big no no

Relative.

I probably would've enjoyed the game more if it was indeed the step-up I was hoping for. Still, if you enjoy the game, by all means enjoy it.

 

[BBQTV]

Relative.

I probably would've enjoyed the game more if it was indeed the step-up I was hoping for. Still, if you enjoy the game, by all means enjoy it.

more characters,more modes,they have a story [even though the gameplay is baiscly kirby super star] the actual fighting is different. but you dont have to like it

 

[Neo Exdeath]

oh hi neo so regular brawl is vanilla smash why they'd call it that [for neo and only this thread i'll stop saying]

They call it Vanilla Smash because it is plain Brawl, like vanilla is plain.

 

[.WC.]

more characters,more modes,they have a story [even though the gameplay is baiscly kirby super star] the actual fighting is different. but you dont have to like it

This defies what he just said, which is 100% true. Quality > Quantity.

 

[Pieman0920]

How was Brawl's quality worse than Melee? I guess if you're into the competition it wasn't as deep, but that's a different issue. Basically everywhere else Brawl improved outside of tripping I guess. (It was slower too, but that again isn't that much a issue of quality)

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I definitely agree with the statement that quality>quantity.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

How was Brawl's quality worse than Melee? I guess if you're into the competition it wasn't as deep, but that's a different issue. Basically everywhere else Brawl improved outside of tripping I guess. (It was slower too, but that again isn't that much a issue of quality)

*hands flame shield*

You're gonna need it.

 

[BBQTV]

They call it Vanilla Smash because it is plain Brawl, like vanilla is plain.

i like vanilla better then chocolate

How was Brawl's quality worse than Melee? I guess if you're into the competition it wasn't as deep, but that's a different issue. Basically everywhere else Brawl improved outside of tripping I guess. (It was slower too, but that again isn't that much a issue of quality)

*hands flame shield*

You're gonna need it.

why would he? people need stop being ****ing idiots and accept brawl

 

[n88]

@BBQTV

You're a ****ing idiot if you use hacks? Wow. At any rate, Brawl did have very differrent physics than Melee. The new physics made Brawl far inferior for competitive play. Naturally, some people don't like that. Personally, I play Melee, Brawl, Brawl +, and I've dabbled in Balanced Brawl a bit. I'll add SSB64 to that list if Nintendo ever releases it for the VC. I don't play Brawl+ out of any hatred for Brawl, but because it's something different.

 

[Big-Cat]

How was Brawl's quality worse than Melee? I guess if you're into the competition it wasn't as deep, but that's a different issue. Basically everywhere else Brawl improved outside of tripping I guess. (It was slower too, but that again isn't that much a issue of quality)

Some would say the balance has worsened big time as opposed to Melee. There's also the asinine addition of Masterpieces and the Chronicle and the lazy way out they took for the trophies.

why would he? people need stop being ****ing idiots and accept brawl

People don't have to like Brawl you know. No one's being forced to like the game.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

How was Brawl's quality worse than Melee? I guess if you're into the competition it wasn't as deep, but that's a different issue. Basically everywhere else Brawl improved outside of tripping I guess. (It was slower too, but that again isn't that much a issue of quality)

Melee felt relatively more complete, to me.

There's more to judge in Brawl, and the amount of things it added felt poorly implemented or not as complete. Bigger wasn't better, in this case, I thought. Then there's the stuff you stated, which is a different issue, but adds to my lack of enjoyment with Brawl.

I honestly feel the developers should've used another year to develop, polish, etc. Brawl a little more. It felt... rushed.

*hands flame shield*

He doesn't need it.

why would he? people need stop being ****ing idiots and accept brawl

People are idiots if they don't find joy in Brawl? Okay, gotcha.

I think you should stop.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

i like vanilla better then chocolate




why would he? people need stop being ****ing idiots and accept brawl

How is disliking a clearly better game, being a ****ing idiot Zam

And For me a new smash needs good charatcers and good gameply, I enjoy seeing new characters (the main reason I don't play melee as much as brawl, I like who is in Brawl), but Brawl's gameplay really hurts it in my eyes. I don;t need all sorts of fancy modes and items or stages, I need good gameplay/physics with the addition of newer characters.

And while I am on the subject of characters, how many of you guys care if a character is implemented that "takes away" from the uniquities of another?

Ex. Another Transforming character, duo, etc.

 

[Big-Cat]

Melee felt relatively more complete, to me.

There's more to judge in Brawl, and the amount of things it added felt poorly implemented or not as complete. Bigger wasn't better, in this case, I thought. Then there's the stuff you stated, which is a different issue, but adds to my lack of enjoyment with Brawl.

I honestly feel the developers should've used another year to develop, polish, etc. Brawl a little more. It felt... rushed.

Ironically, Melee had less time to be made.

And while I am on the subject of characters, how many of you guys care if a character is implemented that "takes away" from the uniquities of another?

Ex. Another Transforming character, duo, etc.

I couldn't care less. We've been going on about this unique thing for too long.

I see the transformers and duo characters as a new type of Smash fighter. Transformers already has Zelda, Pokemon Trainer, and Samus to an extent.

 

[BBQTV]

@BBQTV

You're a ****ing idiot if you use hacks? Wow. At any rate, Brawl did have very differrent physics than Melee. The new physics made Brawl far inferior for competitive play. Naturally, some people don't like that. Personally, I play Melee, Brawl, Brawl +, and I've dabbled in Balanced Brawl a bit. I'll add SSB64 to that list if Nintendo ever releases it for the VC. I don't play Brawl+ out of any hatred for Brawl, but because it's something different.

??????? just cause you like those games doesn't mean you dont like brawl

Melee felt relatively more complete, to me.

There's more to judge in Brawl, and the amount of things it added felt poorly implemented or not as complete. Bigger wasn't better, in this case, I thought. Then there's the stuff you stated, which is a different issue, but adds to my lack of enjoyment with Brawl.

I honestly feel the developers should've used another year to develop, polish, etc. Brawl a little more. It felt... rushed.



He doesn't need it.



People are idiots if they don't find joy in Brawl? Okay, gotcha.

I think you should stop.

no but brawls fine so they gotta stop being ****ing idiots bashing it

How is disliking a clearly better game, being a ****ing idiot Zam

And For me a new smash needs good charatcers and good gameply, I enjoy seeing new characters (the main reason I don't play melee as much as brawl, I like who is in Brawl), but Brawl's gameplay really hurts it in my eyes. I don;t need all sorts of fancy modes and items or stages, I need good gameplay/physics with the addition of newer characters.

And while I am on the subject of characters, how many of you guys care if a character is implemented that "takes away" from the uniquities of another?

Ex. Another Transforming character, duo, etc.

**** what you said at the top. both are fine i wouldn't really call one better then the other but

brawl: better music,more characters,better graphics,online play [when lags not being a *******] the competitiveness of it is something that ticks me off when someone says ohmgee brawls nor competitive **** that its not true [im not saying zam now dont provoke me ]

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

IT's not just thats its not competetive, the physics make playing the game at any level (I don't play competitively, but still enjoy melee much more) he modes in Brawl are no much fun (SSE sucks, Classic was better in Melee [shorter less burensome]), graphics should hev little affect of what game plays better, more stages =/= better stages, Online play, music, and characters is all Brawl has over melee (and thsese characters aren't as much fun because the physics suck so **** bad)

 

[BBQTV]

IT's not just thats its not competetive, the physics make playing the game at any level (I don't play competitively, but still enjoy melee much more) he modes in Brawl are no much fun (SSE sucks, Classic was better in Melee [shorter less burensome]), graphics should hev little affect of what game plays better, more stages =/= better stages, Online play, music, and characters is all Brawl has over melee (and thsese characters aren't as much fun because the physics suck so **** bad)

another one that grinds my gears i love both physics from both games ahhhhhhh dam unpleaseable fan base

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Too much Melee vs. Brawl and not enough SSB4.


As far as sharing unique properties, it's okay if there's a character worth adding that would rely on such a similar concept (like how most of the clones have similar abilities to their originals in their source games as well).

I'm of the belief that there aren't any right now though. Poor Louie.

 

[Pieman0920]

Some would say the balance has worsened big time as opposed to Melee. There's also the asinine addition of Masterpieces and the Chronicle and the lazy way out they took for the trophies.

Well that mostly falls in competative play, but I can clearly see why people would have a problem with a lack of balance. I still don't quite see how that's all too different from Melee, since for the most part there were characters who dominated others in that as well, but then again, I never went into the higher levels of competition in either game.

And while I too was annoyed at how they handled trophies in such a lazy fashion, I don't think Masterpieces or the Chronicle were that big of deals. Masterpieces actually don't take that much room on the disk, and the Chronicle is just text, and I doubt even if they were never in Brawl that they would have changed a single thing, since they were just quick little bonuses. As far as I'm concerned, complaining about them taking up time, space, or effort in the game would be akin to complaining about the same thing in a fighting game that had stages with night and day time phases. While neither of those things were quite needed, its not like they hurt in any way at all.

Actually if anything hurt time, effort, and space on the disk, it was probably the huge amount of music, and the SSE's cutscenes.

 

[Big-Cat]

Too much Melee vs. Brawl and not enough SSB4.

It's not so much a Melee vs. Brawl debate as it is addressing Brawl's flaws. As Scooby said, the jump from SSB to Melee was more complete than the transition from Melee to Brawl.

In a sense, we are talking about SSB4.

 

[n88]

@Shino

If you object to the physics o Brawl so much, I would look into B+. But anyway, I'm kinda in agreement with Toise on the unique properties thing. Only if it makes sense/the character is worth adding.

I've been thinking a bit lately, and some things occurred to me:

1) Sakurai does not like changing characters' movesets much
2) Diddy was intended to be partnered with Dixie

If Sakurai decides that he still wants to see that mechanic in the game, but he wants to preserve Diddy as is, might he add Dixie/Other Kong from DKC3 whose name I can't remember?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Kuma: That's fine, but a lot of the "flaws" you guys are discussing are either subjective (physics mainly) or so minor that you're going out of your way to complain about them (Chronicles and Masterpieces).

You know what most people will say sucked about Brawl? "They got rid of my favorite character! What the hell!?"

edit: sadkjfasdk n88 you jerk

 

[Pieman0920]

Kiddy Kong was his name-o

Sakurai might try that, but it sort of depends if he really wants to push the mechanic or if, like Star Fox, he hasn't actually been following what the DK series has been doing for the last decade or so. While Dixie, along with several other Kongs have made comebacks in recent games, Kiddy hasn't really showed up since DKC3, though he was supposed to be in that canceled Donkey Kong Racing game.

edit: sadkjfasdk toise you jerk

 

[n88]

Yeah, that's it. He'd probably be like Sheik - not deserving of an appearance, but getting in due to being tied to another character. Although admittedly, Sheik was a lot more popular.