[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[SmashChu]

Fixed. The Nintendo fanbase is increasingly casual. Most Mario/Smash fans are kids who either don't know the Koopalings or view them as very obscure characters. Plus, Sakurai does not conduct hate polls. There's no *Vote for the character you don't wat to see in Smash!* site. (Unless someone amkes one just to spite me)



Willing to bet that BJ will be the boss that appears at the mid-point of every world.

Um, what?

A lof of old Nintendo fans came from the NES/SNES. You know nothing about most Nintendo fans.
Obn bold: Do I need to cut and paste the paragraph explaining this? Sakurai adds characters people want to play as. Thus, the reverse is also true. Sakurai does not add characters people do not like.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Gonna throw this out real quick (writing up stuff for Chu's big post right now), but I'm pretty sure Sakurai has a far better way of measuring popularity than just Smash polls. Designers usually know who's popular and who isn't in their works without openly asking the fans.

I say "usually" because sometimes they'll keep at it with a crappy character regardless of what the fans think.

 

[n88]

Not sure how that's hard to understand. Sakurai doesn't ask who people don't want to play as. He asks who they do. If BJ has lots of fans (He does) haters don't matter much.

Most old Nintendo fans do come from the NES/SNES. Old Nintendo fans aren't most Nintendo fans, though. Since the Wii's release, Nintendo's fanbase has become people who know next to nothing about Nintendo. You'd be surprised how many kids who like Nintendo games think that Metroid ripped off HALO.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

ALthough hate polls are not conducted, haters are not something that is unknown. Developers know which of thier characters is dislikes, and unless they are deceptivly cunning, Sakurai would be told about a possible community backlash over a certain character.

 

[n88]

Perhaps, but I don't think it'll stop BJ. He's got more significance than any other three Mario newcomers put together, he's got a good deal of support, and hate hasn't stopped him from appearing in almost every Mario game since his creation.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

1)AT characters are ones people actually want to play as. On Saki's page:
"He rivals just about any main character. There were many requests from users for his inclusion, and he IS pretty cool, so I did what I could to include him. After all, this game does let you enjoy a dream cast of supporting characters!"
Sakurai dirrectly mentions that people wanted Saki. Waluigi's page also mentions something to the extent.
The fact that he’s an Assist Trophy means he won’t be appearing as a playable character, but...
Waluigi appears nonetheless!
This one implies that people wanted to see him in the game, more then what was expect. If you look at other characters, you'll see the same thing. Lyn was a very popular Fire Emblem character in the west. Issac is a character a lot of people wanted. Kat and Ana are fan favorites from Warioware ect ect. Little Mac may be the only one who is wanted after the AT, and not as a result of it. Little Mac became in demand when Punch Out came out on the Wii.

The thing is, what he said doesn't necessarily mean he was considering them for playability (Saki's a good example of someone who probably was though, you're right on that). The appearance of an AT simply means they're good enough to make it as an AT. Nothing more or less.

Probably an oddball comparison on my part right here, but look at Mew, Mr. Saturn, and Toad. All three were pretty heavily requested in the Melee poll (above characters like Zelda and Meta Knight), all three are obviously popular in their own series, all three have recurring non-playable appearances in Smash. Does this mean they'll never be playable? No. Does this mean they're destined to be playable eventually? No. It just means they're important enough to be where they are at the very least.

Only other thing I wanna add is that Kat & Ana aren't fan favorites. Not hated of course, just that they don't stand out over the rest (and definitely overshadowed by Mona). Pretty sure he picked them because they make an easy AT compared to other Wario characters.

2)The become part of the Smash Bros world. Most people think Smash is just a mixup of Nintendo stuff. I disagree. I think Smash is its own world in the player's mind, just that the content of the world is Nintendo. Take Roy and Mewtwo. A lot of people though that it was for the better they were gone. Roy was "just an advertisement anyway," and "Ike was pretty much just Roy." But fans of Roy did not care. They just wanted Roy back. A lot of the quotes have validity. If Smash bros just a mixup of Nintendo, then Roy would not have been missed, but since he is, I think that shows that Smash has its own identity. I beleive the Assist Trophies are now seen as part of that world. It would not be surprising if fans would like to see those characters move up.

Out of fairness to Roy and Mewtwo, there's a lot more prestige in being playable. People don't connect as much to ATs (someone who shows up once every 30 minutes on average) to characters they always play as.

For the most part I agree with this, just that not many of the ATs in Brawl are worthy of "ranking up."

3)Non-fans will see the ATs over all other characters. The trophies did this too. Let's say your not a Mother/Earthbound fan. You would think that, after playing Brawl, that Jeff must have been very important. He must be, he comes and helps Ness and Lucas. People will identify more with the ATs over other characters from the same series (this is why I think we'll see Jeff before Claus). Note that even though someone may not be an Mother/Earthbound fan, their voice still counts when it comes time to add characters. People would sooner attach to Jeff before other characters. It's much in the way people saw Roy as Marth's partner.

I already mentioned how ATs don't carry as much weight as playable characters, but I should mention that you're forgetting boss characters, particularly Porky. I'd mention Ridley but everyone knows he's important. That aside, this is correct, moreso for the less popular series.

The Mario series is the hardest to define because it is so broad. There is no way to know what Sakurai would do with it.

As for the quote, I can't find it. I'll look on the Dojo, but otherwise, I'm know nothing about it.

I don't think Mario is that hard to define, just that there's a lot of distractions from all the source material. A lot of people seem to be getting hung up on all the spinoffs and RPGs and whatnot. If I know Sakurai, he's only concerned with the characters that keep appearing in the main titles.

Pretty sure that Daisy quote was from one of the blogs, which makes sense since I'm having a hell of a time finding it. I think Fatman might know, wonder where he went.


Props for keeping up with like three people at once, by the way.

 

[DekuBoy]

I personally want Toad because :
A: He's a beloved character who has spawned one of the most well known Video Game quotes, (you know the one).
B: I think he's a character we would like to see fight. Smash Bros anwsers age old questions like, Sonic vs Mario and Toon Link vs Realistic Link, so it would be awesome to have an event match where you have to protect Peach from Bowser.

Remember I said personal reasons and don't want to spark a debate.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Horah, my idea's are ignored by roster's once more. Anyhow, I'll comment:

Mario
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Toad?
Waluigi?
Geno?

Waluigi has more hate than Bowser Jr, and Is honestly just a filler character. Toad, Geno, Paper Mario, and BJ Seem like the only plausible ones. Moving on...

Metroid
Samus
Ridley

Metroid has very few characters, so these two tend to be the only ones. Other M might add more characters, but they have to be characters people like. If people hate all the characters, then expect it to stay this way

It's not just hate, It's that they're not really relevant and you have 3 movesets...One of which sakurai consider's "Hard to program" If he even does put him in.

Star Fox
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal

This is the example Toise gave. As you go down the line, you hit the characters in order of their relevance. Naturally, Krystal is the last one. Unless people LOVE Slippy, it will end at Krystal.

Not just that, but the series isn't even worth more than four characters, especially with no new games in...How many years?

F-Zero
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh
Black Shadow
Jody Summers

F-Zero has been under utilized, so it has the most room for growth. It can also be the most argued as Captain Falcon is the only character in Brawl. However, looking at the anime, you can tell who people find the most relevant. Since Falcon, Goroh, Shadow Jody and Zoda are the only old characters to have a storyline in the anime based game, and no one cares about Zoda, that these four are who people identify F-Zero with. Also, with so many characters already, it is doubtful that a new one will pop out of nowhere

Short version: After all this time sakurai has underrated the series and denied it a second rep until now, It's doubtful that the series will reach 4 reps so soon, and outside of that there's not really anything viable/useable/unique.

This series is very much a niche; however, it will continue as its fate is very much tied to Smash. Mother is more defined by Smash then its own games as this is what more people are playing. With this in mind, it may be hard to define which characters are relevant. To the fans, it will look like something I posted, but longer. To everyone else, it will be this, but may exclude Claus. Not that he is only known in Japan and people who played the English translation (who were either big Nintendo fans or Earthbound fans). So, Earthbound/Mother in Smash Bros will probably be more defined by Earthbound than Mother 3. Of course, in a perfect world (and in a perfect roster) we'll get Claus.

I generally disagree with this one, but you have a point. Mother is a series very tied to smash - However, If they were given claus he'd pretty much be a "Perfect fit" To smash. Just imagine it "Why does this series have 3 charac...OMG IT'S A SWORD, IT'S A LAZER, IT'S A JETPACK" etc.

Wario
Wario
Kat & Ana
Mona
Jimmy T

Uh...Yoshi and Wario are similar in the aspect that they both could've been tied to the mushroom icon. What makes one much more important than the other to get three other character's overtime? One? Maybe. Two? Depends on future sales and so on. Three? Eh...


Overall I agree on some things (LoZ Is a shaky series, and this is overall in time, not just smash 4 patterns) Just pointing out some thoughts I have here.

 

[n88]

Not just that, but the series isn't even worth more than four characters, especially with no new games in...How many years?

Three. I agree that four would be a high amount of characters for StarFox, but it's not because the series is dead, it's because the series is tiny.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

The reason is that people would see the addition as unimportaint and be one that could have been filled by a better character. Basically, if they add Knuckle Joe without anything interesting, people will either not care at all (which is bad in entertainment) or they will feel cheated. Note how Smash almost always goes for the most important characters. If they ever don't, they will cover it up by being a revolutionary character. So Knuckle Joe would make people unhappy at a "lame" addition, but if he may be merged with other helpers for a new character, then people would love it.

I can see where you're coming from, but I honestly feel that the majority of people playing wouldn't be all that bothered by Knuckle Joe or any other characters, like Adeleine, just as long as they can play another face. To your point, though, I don't see the developers not adding anything interesting to Knuckle Joe or Adeleine if they decided to add either of the two.

Pichu was important enough to add. It was not unreasonable to add the character. The reason people disliked him was he was a joke character (unlike Street Fighter, Smash fans hate joke characters) and many thought he was useless and thus seen as a waste of space. There are still a lot of people who want to see him become a viable character.

I guess I'm trying to figure out how Pichu was important enough, i.e. why Pichu and not a pokemon fans are more familiar with, like Celebi?

It's not that the character is important, but that the character is relevant. Geno is less important then other characters, but the player still finds the character important.

As far as Bowser Jr. and Waluigi goes, here is what I wrote earlier:

-snip-

I understand, but I'm telling you the flak Bowser Jr. gets is nothing compared to what Waluigi receives on a regular basis. People go as far as to say he's the worst Nintendo character conceived.

I assume your talking about the Babies? If so, remember that the goal is to add characters people want to play as. If players don't find them important (which is character relevancy), then they will not like the addition.

Right. Okay, hypothetically speaking, let's say Sakurai made a poll asking fans if they'd like to see a new Yoshi character for SSB4. Honestly, do you think a majority of people will say no over yes?

You make it seem as if the babies have zero relevance. Sure, the clamor for them may not be as huge as the one Geno or Goroh gets, but it's not like they [or any viable Yoshi char] aren't wanted.

Fans of Mother/Earthbound, who know more about the series, would put Masked Man first. Everyone else would but Jeff first because

• He's an Assist
• People know Earthbound better then Mother
• He's already popular on his own

Its really that non-Mother fans would define its place in Smash more then fans of the series. This is because Mother/Earthbound is tied greatly to Smash (its what made people know it existed). Jeff would probably be more liked to a lot more people then Masked Man.

He gets points for being an AT, I suppose, but people knowing Earthbound more than Mother 3 is debatable. He's popular, yes, but so is Masked Man. And whether he'd be more liked or not?--no disrespect, but I don't know why you felt the need to say that. lol

I do agree that Mother/Earthbound continues to strive through Smash, though, and hopefully, will continue to bring/make Smash fans aware of those games.

Kat and Ana outshine them because they are fan favorites. Kat and Ana moved up in the series because fans liked them (I mentioned this in the post). I beleive they are ATs because people liked them.

I believe they were made ATs because that particular role made sense for them. They may be fan favorites, but I really don't think they outshine Mona fandom; I just don't see anything that would lead me to think that.

The only problem with bosses is they are huge. Syrup isn't. She really needs a trophy at least. She could make a cool AT too.

Doesn't have to be outlandishly big to be considered a boss. Still, I suppose she can battle from a pirate ship or something. Either that or a AT, which I wouldn't mind at all.

Glad I made an impact

The question is going to be will Smash fans except a Smash character. Smash has its own world in the player's mind, but the world is still a mash up of Nintendo content. It may be a big risk to add a Smash character. It will either come down to

1. Fans see it as part of the world and like it
2. Fans don't mind it's not directly Nintendo content and like it (perhaps in the same way as Sonic and Snake)
3. Fans dislike it because it is outside the Nintendo realm (the source of the game's content)

It's really not that big of a risk when you think about it. Smash is inherently Nintendo, and whatever it conjures up is Nintendo content.

I like the idea of a figure representing Smash as a fighter. I can easily see myself fighting this character in SSB4 in a stock match in adventure mode, then seeing him resurrect in a Melee Giga Bowser-esque fashion, transforming into Tabuu or something for a final boss style fight.

Spoiler

I better stop, I'm getting hype.

EDIT

@thethirdkoopa: I'll get to your ideas in a moment. =)

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I have something to say to SmashChu......

You speak as though you know what everybody likes/wants, "no one wants a magic caster or lance user" Well I do, I know recent FE, shoot me for never getting the chance to play FE7, I got..........SS I think, hated it. Couldn't stay interested, it and SD. Go ahead say something like "just because you don't like the game doesn't mean....bla bla bla......" FE9 and 10 were the best imo, I have no problem with Micaiah but whatever, this is rushed btw

 

[.WC.]

I guess I'm trying to figure out how Pichu was important enough, i.e. why Pichu and not a pokemon fans are more familiar with, like Celebi?

My guess to Pichu is that Melee was either 1.) advertising G/S/C sales or 2.) filling. Maybe even both were contributing factors, since Pichu was made out to be a clone. As for his popularity outside the games, Pichu also made it big in the "Pichu Brothers" Pokemon short for Pokemon 2000. At the time I'm guessing he was as popular as Pikachu.

 

[BBQTV]

i dont know what you guys are talking about [since i didn't read anything you wrote] i have to post this.ok my friend said [get ready to face plam now] he said shy guys koopas and goombas should be in smash also he said he likes bowser jr and said he should have his brush and that shadow mario should come back as his own character

 

[ScoobyCafe]

My guess to Pichu is that Melee was either 1.) advertising G/S/C sales or 2.) filling. Maybe even both were contributing factors. Pichu also made it big in the "Pichu Brothers" Pokemon short. At the time I'm guessing he was as popular as Pikachu.

Celebi could've easily done both. And that last bit about Pichu's popularity being significantly big back then isn't true. Celebi was popular prior the movie 'Pokémon 4Ever' and even more popular after it.

So again, I don't see how Pichu is important/was chosen and not someone like Celebi, who has what Pichu has and more.

 

[n88]

Yes, but Pichu had potential to be a clone; he was thrown in there along w/G-dorf and the other Melee clones as last-minute bonus.

 

[.WC.]

Celebi could've easily done both. And that last bit about Pichu's popularity being significantly big back then isn't true. Celebi was popular prior the movie 'Pokémon 4Ever' and even more popular after it.

So again, I don't see how Pichu is important/was chosen and not someone like Celebi, who has what Pichu has and more.

Celebi is too uber. And besides, he's too original of a character to be thrown into the mix. To make Celebi more 'elusive' like in the games, Sakurai put him in a pokeball. I think that's good enough.

I don't really want to argue Pichu's popularity or Pichu in general due to the fact that I hated Pichu, but I'm just giving you possible reasons behind his addition.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I have something to say to SmashChu......

You speak as though you know what everybody likes/wants, "no one wants a magic caster or lance user" Well I do, I know recent FE, shoot me for never getting the chance to play FE7, I got..........SS I think, hated it. Couldn't stay interested, it and SD. Go ahead say something like "just because you don't like the game doesn't mean....bla bla bla......" FE9 and 10 were the best imo, I have no problem with Micaiah but whatever, this is rushed btw

And you are not a traditional fan. Most people did play 7-10 and have agreed 10 is probably the worst in a long time. I can agree to this as well, compared to everything else, the game just isn't as good and on top of 7 is among the top games of the entire series (including japanese games) and it is agreed upon that it is the best in America (Although FE9 is sometimes up for debate on it's placement) so Lyn is probably the best after the choices we have, Smashchu's list is accurate)

BTW, Lyn can use the Bow and has "teleportation"-esque movements that would easily separate her from any existing swordsman, for those who argue this point.

 

[Pieman0920]

Havn't been here for a bit~

*notices Toise didn't respond*

k

*notices SmashChu responded*

k

*reads through SmashChu's argument*

....Wait, did he read anything I was saying before? I gave reasons why Jody didn't make sense, and even if he doesn't agree with them, I gave reasons why Toise's reasons were invalid. Jeesh, reading comprehension. =/

In any case, its pointless arguing, since I don't think either side will give in at this point/my argument was at Toise, not SmashChu. I mean I still don't think you guys are really playing F-Zero, since you're saying Jody is important enough to be considered for Smash, but if you want to delude yourself, then fine by me. (Though maybe that's not right, since if you guys make more lists, I'd still probably complain about Jody...heck, I complain about Black Shadow, though that's more because people who add him in don't add him in for the sake of F-Zero most of the time)

On Celebi, I don't think people were technically supposed to know about Celebi at the time.....right? I guess that may have depended on how new the second gen was at the time Melee came out, but for Brawl, we weren't supposed to "know" about Shaymin and Arceus either.

And on Fire Emblem, while I don't like to say that you should just predict the lord for FE12.....that's really the person you should bank on. If there actually isn't a new Fire Emblem between there and then....well then there probably just won't be a new character at all! For some reason this thought is something that almost never goes into the FE decision process, but I think its a very real possibility. If there has to be another character, if you ask me, it may well be Sheeda, though that's a unpopular pick.

 

[BBQTV]

i dont know what you guys are talking about [since i didn't read anything you wrote] i have to post this.ok my friend said [get ready to face plam now] he said shy guys koopas and goombas should be in smash also he said he likes bowser jr and said he should have his brush and that shadow mario should come back as his own character

does anyone have anything to say?

 

[Pieman0920]

@BBQTV

What is there to say? A Shy Guy/Koopa/Goomba team could theoretically work, even if its not likely. Bowser Jr is also a common person that people add in, and they almost always want him with that brush. A fair number of them also want Shadow Mario to be a transformation, though if you mean a seperate character, that's less likely than even a Shy Guy/Koopa/Goomba team.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Yes, but Pichu had potential to be a clone; he was thrown in there along w/G-dorf and the other Melee clones as last-minute bonus.

You know, this may actually be the reason, and because I think it is, my disappointment in Sakurai just went up another notch. smh

Celebi is too uber. And besides, he's too original of a character to be thrown into the mix. To make Celebi more 'elusive' like in the games, Sakurai put him in a pokeball. I think that's good enough.

Mewtwo is uber, original, and elusive, yet lo and behold. I'm just saying what Pichu could do for Melee, Celebi could do better becaue of it's status back then. I'm not arguing, just pointing out what seems to be a given, imo. =)

On Celebi, I don't think people were technically supposed to know about Celebi at the time.....right? I guess that may have depended on how new the second gen was at the time Melee came out, but for Brawl, we weren't supposed to "know" about Shaymin and Arceus either.

Gold and Silver were out a good 2 years prior Melee, actually. Yeah, that was true before, but once people started to catch on, Celebi became quite the popular pokemon. Sucks how Pichu was chosen--I would've easily made Celebi my main if it was chosen. =(

@BBQTV

Bowser Jr. without brush and transformation--yes. Shy Guys, Koopas and Goombas?--not so much.

 

[Jerome]

Mario Characters for SSB4

Here's what i think about Mario characters...

Bowser Jr. has a 95% chance being in SSB4. If Diddy Kong can get in then Bowser Jr. can too. Plus, he's popular.

Waluigi has a 80% chance being in SSB4. He's an AT and has many fans.

Rosalina has a 60% chance but i think her chance will increase if she appears in more games.

Daisy 50% chance. Mabey....

Toad 30% chance. He might not get in. He's doesn't seem like a fighter but he's in alot of Mario games but Toad is Peach's B move so i doubt it.

Hammer Bro. 20% chance. He'd be a sweet fighter IMO but there are so many more important characters but he is an AT so i feel he has a slight chance.

Geno 10% I don't think so...

Paper Mario Characters 0% There are already alot of Mario characters in Brawl and there will be more in SSB4 so i feel it would be a waste of time to add Paper Mario characters IMO.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

And you are not a traditional fan. Most people did play 7-10 and have agreed 10 is probably the worst in a long time. I can agree to this as well, compared to everything else, the game just isn't as good and on top of 7 is among the top games of the entire series (including japanese games) and it is agreed upon that it is the best in America (Although FE9 is sometimes up for debate on it's placement) so Lyn is probably the best after the choices we have, Smashchu's list is accurate)

BTW, Lyn can use the Bow and has "teleportation"-esque movements that would easily separate her from any existing swordsman, for those who argue this point.

I should just ignore the bottom part, guess what? Toon Link could use quite a few items that Link doesn't have, Ganon has some magical abilities, to my understanding Lucas didn't use any of the attacks he was given. Get the picture? No matter what she very well has 75-90% chance of being cloned off of Marth.

So? don't blame me for not knowing about the series 5 years or so ago. Radiant Dawn was the first FE that I played and LOVED it. Path of Radiance wasn't nearly as good. Shadow Dragon sucked imo, the 3-D FEs are interesting and I think that they have a great storyline. The only thing I can agree on of RD's suckishness is the Final Boss. Ashnard was fun but gag me with a spoon on Ashera. It gets really annoying really fast.

Here is FE for me,
Ike (he's awesome)
Marth (he's staying)
Micaiah (she's cool)
Hate to say it but, Lyn, Roy or the newest Lord (as much as I hate that placeholder)
I'd love it if FE gets tons of rep but I can barely expect that many........

Roy, I hate the idea of him coming back, he was kinda cool as long as no clone, I want Mewtwo so bad it's not funny, we ain't gettin Mewtwo without Roy unless Sakurai is ready for a fan riot.

This clear things up?

@ Jerome, it would only be Paper Mario character and Waluigi has haters to match his fans.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I mean I still don't think you guys are really playing F-Zero

zoop

I still have no reason to believe that you've both played the games and understand the characters, setting, whatnot.

 

[Pieman0920]

Roy, I hate the idea of him coming back, he was kinda cool as long as no clone, I want Mewtwo so bad it's not funny, we ain't gettin Mewtwo without Roy unless Sakurai is ready for a fan riot.

While I don't think either will get back in, I'd say the the fan riots that would happen if Mewtwo got in and Roy didn't would be tiny in comparison to the riots that would happen if Roy got in and Mewtwo didn't. :V


And no fair Toise, I don't have a camera. ;_;

(But if you've got GX, then you pretty much have the highlight of Jody's career as far as the canon is concerned)

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I should just ignore the bottom part, guess what? Toon Link could use quite a few items that Link doesn't have, Ganon has some magical abilities, to my understanding Lucas didn't use any of the attacks he was given. Get the picture? No matter what she very well has 75-90% chance of being cloned off of Marth.

So? don't blame me for not knowing about the series 5 years or so ago. Radiant Dawn was the first FE that I played and LOVED it. Path of Radiance wasn't nearly as good. Shadow Dragon sucked imo, the 3-D FEs are interesting and I think that they have a great storyline. The only thing I can agree on of RD's suckishness is the Final Boss. Ashnard was fun but gag me with a spoon on Ashera. It gets really annoying really fast.

Here is FE for me,
Ike (he's awesome)
Marth (he's staying)
Micaiah (she's cool)
Hate to say it but, Lyn, Roy or the newest Lord (as much as I hate that placeholder)
I'd love it if FE gets tons of rep but I can barely expect that many........

Roy, I hate the idea of him coming back, he was kinda cool as long as no clone, I want Mewtwo so bad it's not funny, we ain't gettin Mewtwo without Roy unless Sakurai is ready for a fan riot.

This clear things up?

@ Jerome, it would only be Paper Mario character and Waluigi has haters to match his fans.

I'm not blaming you, first of all, I'm simply saying that you can't really have a realistic input on the "importance" of certain characters when you have played 1/5 of the games, even in America.

If Lyn was given the attention and it was decided that she will not be a clone, then she will not be a clone. Her Bow can account for several things smashes, specials etc. Her teleportation and affinity with the swordsmaster class (Marth always seemed most similar to a merc) she can definetly be a different character. The only thing they will have in common is an affinty for speedier combat.

Ganon was made as a clone, Toon Link was made as a clone. These characters were made as clones because it was decided they were going to be clones in melee (Tink is Young Link's replacement, not a unique character). Unless Sakurai decided to throw her in at the last minute then she would indefinetly be unique.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I thought I didn't, then I realized my phone takes pictures. Learn something every day.


edit: you should watch the anime sometime instead of poo-pooing it

 

[n88]

@Pieman

I like to think that Dr. Mario, Roy, and Mewtwo have a chance of coming back. But then again, that might have something to do with the fact that they were my mains. (Coincidentally, I also mained Link and Charade in SCII, ROB in Mario Kart DS, Petey Pirahna in Mario Kart Double Dash. If you wish, you may pay me not to main your favorite character in Brawl.)

 

[BBQTV]

@BBQTV

What is there to say? A Shy Guy/Koopa/Goomba team could theoretically work, even if its not likely. Bowser Jr is also a common person that people add in, and they almost always want him with that brush. A fair number of them also want Shadow Mario to be a transformation, though if you mean a seperate character, that's less likely than even a Shy Guy/Koopa/Goomba team.

that kinda what i thought were nevet seeing shadow mario again are we and if bowser jr is in the brush could help him since he to little

 

[Pieman0920]

I thought I didn't, then I realized my phone takes pictures. Learn something every day.


edit: you should watch the anime sometime instead of poo-pooing it

I know for a fact that my phone has no camera. :embarrass

I've seen the anime. I watched basically all of the episodes I could when it was on Fox, and kept on paying attention to the Japanese version as best I could back when it was airing. I've also seen the last few episodes, and was quite dissapointed with what they did with DB, but then again, considering how they changed up so many other characters, it wasn't that shocking.

In any case, I just wouldn't count it as a pro for Jody without accepting the fact that several other characters, specifically Ryu/Rick have very large roles within the series. There's also the fact that Sakurai didn't seem to notice that it existed at all, which kind of throws feul on the flames of unpredictability on his part.


Buuuut, one thing I did want to say is that if you're saying that characters and their roles, then why have you basically been disregarding Pico and Dr. Stewart who not only have been racers from the very begining, but both had large roles in regards to the backstory for GX. (The non-story mode backstory I guess)

that kinda what i thought were nevet seeing shadow mario again are we and if bowser jr is in the brush could help him since he to little

I'm fairly certain he showed up in the GCN Mario Golf game actually.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I'm not blaming you, first of all, I'm simply saying that you can't really have a realistic input on the "importance" of certain characters when you have played 1/5 of the games, even in America.

If Lyn was given the attention and it was decided that she will not be a clone, then she will not be a clone. Her Bow can account for several things smashes, specials etc. Her teleportation and affinity with the swordsmaster class (Marth always seemed most similar to a merc) she can definetly be a different character. The only thing they will have in common is an affinty for speedier combat.

Ganon was made as a clone, Toon Link was made as a clone. These characters were made as clones because it was decided they were going to be clones in melee (Tink is Young Link's replacement, not a unique character). Unless Sakurai decided to throw her in at the last minute then she would indefinetly be unique.

Okay I guess starting and becoming a late fan I can't have a say for FE, Screwy

IF she got the attention, IF Paper Mario got the attention people wouldn't say he has no chance and some people wouldn't say he'd be clone, IF Sakurai thought of Ridley earlier we'd have him, IF alot of characters got attention we would have a bunch of awesome PCs, IF is not a good word to use unless you are saying "If this happened I would be so happy" I realize that she can not be a clone but as I've said given the past, It probably won't happen, honestly, words that I think describe Lyn: Fast, Lightish sword, not as strong as others (Ike for example) Words that I think describe Marth: Well the same ones. But I have ingame playing of HIM not being that strong on occasion.

You can ignore this 'cause I think it sounds pretty stupid to be honest.........Pieman you're probably right about Mewtwo and Roy

 

[BBQTV]

I'm fairly certain he showed up in the GCN Mario Golf game actually.

really in any case he might be in the same boat as waluigi except shadow mario has been in a game

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Okay I guess starting and becoming a late fan I can't have a say for FE, Screwy

IF she got the attention, IF Paper Mario got the attention people wouldn't say he has no chance and some people wouldn't say he'd be clone, IF Sakurai thought of Ridley earlier we'd have him, IF alot of characters got attention we would have a bunch of awesome PCs, IF is not a good word to use unless you are saying "If this happened I would be so happy" I realize that she can not be a clone but as I've said given the past, It probably won't happen, honestly, words that I think describe Lyn: Fast, Lightish sword, not as strong as others (Ike for example) Words that I think describe Marth: Well the same ones. But I have ingame playing of HIM not being that strong on occasion.

You can ignore this 'cause I think it sounds pretty stupid to be honest.........Pieman you're probably right about Mewtwo and Roy

First off, I never said you have no say, I said that you cannot speak for Fire Emblem fans because you are not a common fan. ou are basing your opinion on Lyn based on what you have heard about her, play her game, then play Marth's, They are NOTHING alike, they're stats are completely different, there growths are pretty different, they even weild a different kind of sword. Marht wasn;t strong, but Lyn's strength was even worse (unless you were lucky with her strength growth) relying on Critical hits and dodgeing.

And there is no reason to assume she'll be cloned, just because Roy was a clone. You have already decided that they will not care for Lyn because you don't, and that is why your opinion is misguided.

 

[Pieman0920]

really in any case he might be in the same boat as waluigi except shadow mario has been in a game

Well technically Waluigi has been in several games, though none in the main series. I still don't think that means he's on the level of Shadow Mario though, since while he may not have been in the main games, he's been in so many spin off games that it doesn't matter when you compair him to a one-shot character who got one cameo.

 

[BBQTV]

Well technically Waluigi has been in several games, though none in the main series. I still don't think that means he's on the level of Shadow Mario though, since while he may not have been in the main games, he's been in so many spin off games that it doesn't matter when you compair him to a one-shot character who got one cameo.

well when you look at it like that waluigi has been in a lot of games almost makes you wonder why he doesn't have his own game

 

[n88]

I get the feeling that Waluigi was created for the lulz more than anything, which would be a good reason why he doesn't have his own game.

What do people think about 3rd parties? This is something the community seems to be rather divided on. Some want to keep non-Nintendo content to Snake and Sonic, some want the floodgates to open, and some want Snake and Sonic to get the axe.

Personally, I would like to see Megaman and either Siegfried or Nightmare (SoulCalibur) to get in.

A lot of people say that Pac-Man would get in from Namco before a SC character, but I remain unconvinced, seeing as how if Pac-Man would either have to be:

2-D - Roughly zero in moveset potential. I'm sure someone has done it or is going to do it in MYM, but MYM is a whole different animal. If Bubbles is impractical, 2-D Pac-Man is impossible.

3-D - Not nearly as well-known, and somewhat failish

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I get the feeling that Waluigi was created for the lulz more than anything, which would be a good reason why he doesn't have his own game.

What do people think about 3rd parties? This is something the community seems to be rather divided on. Some want to keep non-Nintendo content to Snake and Sonic, some want the floodgates to open, and some want Snake and Sonic to get the axe.

Personally, I would like to see Megaman and either Siegfried or Nightmare (SoulCalibur) to get in.

A lot of people say that Pac-Man would get in from Namco before a SC character, but I remain unconvinced, seeing as how if Pac-Man would either have to be:

2-D - Roughly zero in moveset potential. I'm sure someone has done it or is going to do it in MYM, but MYM is a whole different animal. If Bubbles is impractical, 2-D Pac-Man is impossible.

3-D - Not nearly as well-known, and somewhat failish

Agreed.

As for Waluigi IIRC he was created to be Wario's (A second-string Mario character) Luigi ( The second fiddle to the main character) So in essence Waluigi is the second fiddle to the second string Mario character.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

well that was weird ignore this post

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Waluigi=ewwww
Pac-Man=NO

Okay Shino I guess you win this round, I just don't want Lyn AND Roy since they both have A CHANCE of being cloned of Marth, In-game=so what? for Smash apparently on some cases, but can we drop this for now? I know I brought it back up but let's end it soon if not now.

As I've said I want the new FE to be Micaiah and Roy OR Lyn.....or a new lord but whatever

and as I've also said already, I would rather have Roy 'cause of Mewtwo, one PROBABLY won't get in with out the other.

I'd rather have ANY Mario Character over Waluigi, seriously, any character EVER, Even some random character like Goomba #133 or something........

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

In any case, I just wouldn't count it as a pro for Jody without accepting the fact that several other characters, specifically Ryu/Rick have very large roles within the series. There's also the fact that Sakurai didn't seem to notice that it existed at all, which kind of throws feul on the flames of unpredictability on his part.

Yeah, no. Jody has a bigger role than almost everyone on the show. Gets more screentime than anyone other than Ryu. Fans notice this and they're the ones deciding she's important.

For the record, Sakurai doesn't make any references to any anime or games based off of anime (hence no Pokemon Yellow or show trophies; even the Misty and Oak trophies in Melee talk about Red and Blue).

Buuuut, one thing I did want to say is that if you're saying that characters and their roles, then why have you basically been disregarding Pico and Dr. Stewart who not only have been racers from the very begining, but both had large roles in regards to the backstory for GX. (The non-story mode backstory I guess)

Large role in non-story mode backstory, eh? You mean how neither of their backstories connect to anyone elses?

Gameplay-wise, sure, being the guys you always have at the start keeps them relevant. Storyline-wise, where are they? Oh yeah, they're either invisible in GX or working beneath (guess who) Jody and Black Shadow in anything based off of GP Legend.


It's not the definition of their roles that matter, only that the roles themselves are major and that the characters are popular enough. Jody's "role" of "woman" is irrelevant; her position as "popular major character" is crucial.