Glad people liked what I wrote. However, it will take me hours to reply to everything that was said. Instead, I will just point at the big stuff (with the exception of Kuma)
I may be wrong here, but I thought Waluigi was hated more than Bowser Jr. especially when you take into account Waluigi's origins.
From my observations, no. Most people I talked to want Waluigi to have a real role. They never mention anything of the sort about Bowser Jr (he also comes up a lot less). For a while, /v/ talked about "Wario and Waluigi: Partners in crime." They made a boxart too (a copy paste on, but, you know). Other people I talk to give me the same reason. It's hard to find someone who flat out hates him now.
There is an overexaggeration. If ATs were soley characters people want to play as, we wouldn't have gotten ones like Nintendog and the Metroid. Nonetheless, you do raise a point, but I consider Waluigi to be Tingle of sorts. He's not despised outside of Japan, but it seems he has more haters than fans, unlike Krystal who has as many fans as haters.
Not all of them are going to be playable characters. Many are added because they could not be characters (like Nintendog). However, I think a lot of them could be characters (I'm talking about Issac, Mac, Lyn, Goroh ect.)
And no, like I've said, people want Waluigi to be more of a character. People flat out hate Tingle.
I agree with this for the most part.
Thank You
While the voices of Smash players matters, the fans of the original series have to have higher priority. If I had to decide on which MOTHER character to add, I'd ask the MOTHER fans because they know the characters better than anyone else.
I've always argued this because I don't think only fans should matter. Remember that Smash is its own world. It's almost as if anything that is added loses its "Nintendo" connotation and becomes property of Smash. I think players will grow attached to characters they see in the world and would want them to be full playable characters. This is why I think that popularity should be looked outside the fanbase. The other reason is they may like something that not everyone else agrees with.
We can only base this one precedent: Pichu who really just sucked. At least Dan Hibiki didn't hurt himself while attacking aside from his Otoko Michi. Nothing's wrong with making the joke character bottom tier, but that character should still be competitively viable.
Pichu was always viable. And Dan was always bad until SF4 where they made him better. Dan was a challenge to SF fans as you had to be good to win with him and he was funny. Pichu wasn't funny, but was viable. People did use Pichu.
This is why I equate it to being that Smash fans just don't like joke characters.
I think you're using the word "important" to loosely. Geno is Ensemble Darkhorse which is a popular character depspite having an overall minor role.
Remember, there is a difference between importance and Character Relevancy. If I ever said "Important to the player" that means that character is relevant. Geno isn't important to the series, but he's relevant. Slippy is important to the Star Fox series, but not relevant.
Just because Smash made people aware of MOTHER doesn't mean that people will have an interest in it. As I said earlier, you can't ask people who don't know anything about MOTHER to put input in for what MOTHER character to put in.
Again, this is a game for everyone, so everyone should enjoy the content. If Mother fans only want Claus and everyone else wants Jeff, who should get in. Jeff would make more players happy, and Smash is a game for all Nintendo fans.
If the characters who were added where only wanted by fans of a series, then the roster would be boring and segmented. This is not how Smash should be designed.
The thing is, what he said doesn't necessarily mean he was considering them for playability (Saki's a good example of someone who probably was though, you're right on that). The appearance of an AT simply means they're good enough to make it as an AT. Nothing more or less.
Probably an oddball comparison on my part right here, but look at Mew, Mr. Saturn, and Toad. All three were pretty heavily requested in the Melee poll (above characters like Zelda and Meta Knigtht), all three are obviously popular in their own series, all three have recurring non-playable appearances in Smash. Does this mean they'll never be playable? No. Does this mean they're desined to be playable eventually? No. It just means they're important enough to be where they are at the very least.
Only other thing I wanna add is that Kat & Ana aren't fan favorites. Not hated of course, just that they don't stand out over the rest (and definitely overshadowed by Mona). Pretty sure he picked them because they make an easy AT compared to other Wario characters.
You have too look at why the character is an assist trophy and then ask, "Would it be weird if they were in Smash?"
Waluigi-Fans want him to be more of a character. May have been highly requested
Ridley-Was planned to be an AT.
Goroh-Next in line for F-Zero. People have wanted another F-Zero franchise for a while.
Jeff-Seems to be a fan favorite
Lyn-Western fans love her. Most wanted FE character here
Kat & Ana-I've already gone into how they are a fan favorite
Issac-Really popular choice. Probably next in line for Smash
Little Mac-Before Punch Out Wii, he was a classic character fans wanted to see. Now, he's pretty popular in America.
Saku-Sakurai mentioned him on the blog
Starfy-Probably if the series becomes more popular (already doing better in the west then in Japan)
While not all of them will become characters in the next game (like Jeff, for instance), they are all potential for Brawl. A lot of the characters mentioned were ones who are ATs because they are liked but not enough as others in Brawl already. This is why they will upgrade. People already wanted them as characters. Again, what Saki showed was that some characters are being added because there is not enough room on the main roster.
Also, I've gone into Kat and Ana plenty of times. I can go though it again if you really want.
I already mentioned how ATs don't carry as much weight as playable characters, but I should mention that you're forgetting boss characters, particularly Porky. I'd mention Ridley but everyone knows he's important. That aside, this is correct, moreso for the less popular series.
Funfact: Ridley was planned to be an AT
Also, I don't see Porky being playable since how could he fight in a spider mech?
Just to sum up the AT thing, the reason I say this is that AT characters are ones who were added because people liked them (you can see this in Issac, Saki and Lyn) and they would make scene as playable fighters. It's hard to say this in a reply, but if anyone wants, I'll make a post about it.
I don't think Mario is that hard to define, just that there's a lot of distractions from all the source material. A lot of people seem to be getting hung up on all the spinoffs and RPGs and whatnot. If I know Sakurai, he's only concerned with the characters that keep appearing in the main titles.
Pretty sure that Daisy quote was from one of the blogs, which makes sense since I'm having a hell of a time finding it. I think Fatman might know, wonder where he went.
Note that there are only three games in the series. We can't make a claim like "He will only add important Mario characters," because there is no trend. So I would disagree with that.
Also, I do wonder where Fatman as gone.
Props for keeping up with like three people at once, by the way.
Thanks
Waluigi has more hate than Bowser Jr, and Is honestly just a filler character. Toad, Geno, Paper Mario, and BJ Seem like the only plausible ones. Moving on...
Same thing I've said before.......
Bowser Jr.-Never hear anything good about him
Waluigi-Always wanted to be a major character
I don;t see Bowser Jr. being playable. People like the Koppa Kids more anyway.
It's not just hate, It's that they're not really relevant and you have 3 movesets...One of which sakurai consider's "Hard to program" If he even does put him in.
No, I meant if the new characters in Other M are hated. Not talking about current Metroid characters here.
Not just that, but the series isn't even worth more than four characters, especially with no new games in...How many years?
We've been ovr the topic of Starfox already in depth. People like the characters from those games. Also, the game isn't also made by the roster alone.
Short version: After all this time sakurai has underrated the series and denied it a second rep until now, It's doubtful that the series will reach 4 reps so soon, and outside of that there's not really anything viable/useable/unique.
You missed the point here.
The whole goal is that this is what is needed to have the series be "completed." This isn't about #4 or 5 but the series in general. When these four characters are added, no more F-Zero characters are wanted.
I generally disagree with this one, but you have a point. Mother is a series very tied to smash - However, If they were given claus he'd pretty much be a "Perfect fit" To smash. Just imagine it "Why does this series have 3 charac...OMG IT'S A SWORD, IT'S A LAZER, IT'S A JETPACK" etc.
Weapons and "potential" don't make characters
Glad you liked it Thirdkoppa. Sorry if I was harsh.
