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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Alright i figured, i just wanted to clarify and make sure you werent messing with the best stages of Smash.

Also i realized, with the water in Termina it would become a much less broken stage (Maybe even counter-pick)
 

Big-Cat

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I meant that SSB4 could get balance updates, not Brawl. That way, more resources could be allocated to new content rather than trying to balance. Mind you, I would love a well-balanced game, but it seems unlikely to me that the balance will be great anyway. So why not give up mediocre, pre-release balancing attempts in exchange for some genuine, new content, with balancing taking place after release?

And I said that Smash isn't targeted towards competitives, not that it is. Admittedly, that could change, but at the moment, it's pretty casual-based.

At any rate, Smash isn't quite as poorly balanced as it seems if you play w/FS's. Falco easily challenges
SSB4 COULD get balance updates, but that would be poor game designing. You shouldn't have to have the game constantly updated. People will find strategies against characters that aren't so obvious. You're better off doing a second update game like Tekken 5 and 6.

I would much prefer the extra content to be DLC as they don't necessarily affect the gameplay.
 

Paper Mario Master

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Am I too late????

For Past Stages I would like to see:

64 Stages:

Saffron City
Kongo Jungle
Peach's Castle
METAL MARIO STAGE FTW (or at least make the background available in Stage Builder)

Melee Stages:

Fountain Of Dreams ftw
Temple ftw
Brinstar Depths ftw
Fourside ftw
Big Blue
Corneria or Venom
MAYBE Great Bay

Brawl Stages:

Castle Siege
Mario Bros.
Pirate Ship
Bridge of Eldin (maybe)
Norfair
MAYBE Mushroomy Kingdom
WW Inc.
Rumble Falls
MAYBE Yoshi's Island

New SSB4 Stages:

(Just some not all)
Lost Woods (LOZ)
Glitz Pit (Mario/Paper Mario)
Sauria (SF)
Sargasso Hideout (SF)
Newer SFA Corneria (Duh SF)
Tallon Overworld or Tallon IV (which ever name=same stage, Metroid)
Phaaze (Metroid)
S.S. Tidal (PKMN 3rd gen)
PKMN Colosseum or Stadium 3 (PKMN duh)
Tellius (FE, Delfino Style)
Storm Hill (DK)
Venus Lighthouse (GS)
Gamble Galaxy (Kirby)
Fire Field (F-Zero)
Angel Island Zone (Sonic)
Space Colony ARK (Sonic)
Saturn Valley (EB/Mother)
and many more....
 

Pieman0920

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@KumaOso

I don't see how having a non-obvious type of advantage is a problem that a update couldn't fix. If its used a lot by the community, the developers will notice it, and then they will be able to balance it, and if its too obscure that they don't notice it, then not enough people are abusing it so its not all too much of a problem anyways.

DLC not affecting the gameplay also depnds on the DLC in question. Generally, anything can affect the gameplay, from a character to a stage, even if the physics still remain in tact. Plus, its more likely that a patch would actually be free, while DLC would cost extra, and very few fighting games in my experience have actually had worthwhile DLC that wasn't already just locked on the disk.

Also for the comment a few pages back in regards to swapping moves, I would hope that the game is already balanced enough so that a specific set of moves isn't always chosen instead of another, but even if that is the case, it already happens to a degree anyways. Certain characters aren't chosen, and certain moves are never used. Its just the way things are some times. Even with your super specials, most of the time certain ones will not be used as well.
 

Pieman0920

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Y'know, if its worth commenting on, people will coment on it eventually. You don't need to ask....though technically you did for me, since I didn't want to double post. :V

Am I too late????

For Past Stages I would like to see:

64 Stages:

Saffron City
Kongo Jungle
Peach's Castle
METAL MARIO STAGE FTW (or at least make the background available in Stage Builder)
Kongo Jungle's a pretty meh stage, though I guess it would be fine. Yoshi's Island would be better though. Sector Z is a must though. I also personally like Hyrule Castle over Temple, but that's just me.

Melee Stages:

Fountain Of Dreams ftw
Temple ftw
Brinstar Depths ftw
Fourside ftw
Big Blue
Corneria or Venom
MAYBE Great Bay
Great Bay would kind of unbalance it, since you'd have two Melee Zelda stages. Corneria and Venom are both inferior to Sector Z. Big Blue, Fourside, Brinstar Depths, and FoD are all good though.

Brawl Stages:

Castle Siege
Mario Bros.
Pirate Ship
Bridge of Eldin (maybe)
Norfair
MAYBE Mushroomy Kingdom
WW Inc.
Rumble Falls
MAYBE Yoshi's Island
CS is good. Mario Bros is meh. Pirate Ship is great, but not with all he other Zelda stages, and is a much better choice than Bridge of Eldin. Frigate Orpheon would probably be better than Norfair, and Mushroomy Kingdom shouldn't come back...perhaps if you had two Brawl Mario stages, it would be better off as Delfino and Luigi's Mansion. I don't think WW Inc really needs to return though, but it could. The last two stages shouldn't come back. (There are better Melee and SSB stages for Yoshi, and quite frankly, 75m would be better for DK.

New SSB4 Stages:

(Just some not all)
Lost Woods (LOZ)
Glitz Pit (Mario/Paper Mario)
Sauria (SF)
Sargasso Hideout (SF)
Newer SFA Corneria (Duh SF)
Tallon Overworld or Tallon IV (which ever name=same stage, Metroid)
Phaaze (Metroid)
S.S. Tidal (PKMN 3rd gen)
PKMN Colosseum or Stadium 3 (PKMN duh)
Tellius (FE, Delfino Style)
Storm Hill (DK)
Venus Lighthouse (GS)
Gamble Galaxy (Kirby)
Fire Field (F-Zero)
Angel Island Zone (Sonic)
Space Colony ARK (Sonic)
Saturn Valley (EB/Mother)
and many more....
Lost Woods would probably work out better on a train for Spirit Tracks. Glitz Pit should be replaced by Flopside/Flipside. Sauria is good, and maybe another SF stage, but three doesn't make much sense. For Metroid stages, a MP3 and a Other M stage would work out well, but I guess you can't really have a Other M stage right now, so that's not a problem on the list. Pokemon stages are alright I guess, though I'd swap out S.S. Tidal for Lake of Rage. Tellius as a general stage doesn't seem like a good choice, and neither does Storm Hill. Venus Lighthouse is alright, and I can't really comment on the Kirby stage there, as I've never heard of it. Fire Field isn't a really good choice for F-Zero, and I can't really comment on those last three stages.
 

Paper Mario Master

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Y'know, if its worth commenting on, people will coment on it eventually. You don't need to ask....though technically you did for me, since I didn't want to double post. :V



Kongo Jungle's a pretty meh stage, though I guess it would be fine. Yoshi's Island would be better though. Sector Z is a must though. I also personally like Hyrule Castle over Temple, but that's just me.



Great Bay would kind of unbalance it, since you'd have two Melee Zelda stages. Corneria and Venom are both inferior to Sector Z. Big Blue, Fourside, Brinstar Depths, and FoD are all good though.



CS is good. Mario Bros is meh. Pirate Ship is great, but not with all he other Zelda stages, and is a much better choice than Bridge of Eldin. Frigate Orpheon would probably be better than Norfair, and Mushroomy Kingdom shouldn't come back...perhaps if you had two Brawl Mario stages, it would be better off as Delfino and Luigi's Mansion. I don't think WW Inc really needs to return though, but it could. The last two stages shouldn't come back. (There are better Melee and SSB stages for Yoshi, and quite frankly, 75m would be better for DK.



Lost Woods would probably work out better on a train for Spirit Tracks. Glitz Pit should be replaced by Flopside/Flipside. Sauria is good, and maybe another SF stage, but three doesn't make much sense. For Metroid stages, a MP3 and a Other M stage would work out well, but I guess you can't really have a Other M stage right now, so that's not a problem on the list. Pokemon stages are alright I guess, though I'd swap out S.S. Tidal for Lake of Rage. Tellius as a general stage doesn't seem like a good choice, and neither does Storm Hill. Venus Lighthouse is alright, and I can't really comment on the Kirby stage there, as I've never heard of it. Fire Field isn't a really good choice for F-Zero, and I can't really comment on those last three stages.
I don't agree w/ the 64 because Sector Z is the same as Corneria only no Arwings and Kongo Jungle was good imo.

Okay no Corneria and I said MAYBE Great Bay so I guess i agree

I guess I can agree for Brawl except WW Inc is unique enough and 75m wasn't that good so no DK for that since we'd have KJ

Lost Woods as a ST? I wanted it to be a fairly normal stage w/ awesome music, but a Train would work better for all of "New Hyrule"
Flipside and Flopside wouldn't make that good of a stage and besides SPM was nowhere close to the first 2 imo so GP would work better since most people list "Battle Stage" as PM stage so I say it works.
Easy, Sauria=Krystal, Corneria=Fox and Falco and Sagrasso HO=Wolf (play SF Assault it's actually his hideout if you haven't) I say it's reasonable since I didn't give him Past Stages (cutting Venom/Corneria)
I say Red Gyrados (sp?) could be a boss and that be his stage
It's not that general, it could be like Delfino Pla. and fly to each country or something
Why would Storm Hill not be good? What would be better?
It's from Kirby Squeak Squad and maybe others idk
Why FF no good?
 

Pieman0920

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I don't agree w/ the 64 because Sector Z is the same as Corneria only no Arwings and Kongo Jungle was good imo.
It had Arwings though, and was generally larger and more awesome than any other version of a Great Fox stage. Congo Jungle, as it didn't have a K in the first game, was fairly dull as far as stages go, and thus why I said Yoshi's Island would be better. (At least those far off clouds keep things interesting.)

I guess I can agree for Brawl except WW Inc is unique enough and 75m wasn't that good so no DK for that since we'd have KJ
I just don't think WW Inc will show up again due to the belief I have that the next Wario stage based around the WW franchise will have to use this gimick as well, and thus make WW Inc unnecesary. And if you're complaining that 75m wasn't any good, then what's the deal with having Mario Bros in there? :V

In all though, while I know that there should be a DK past stage, none of them are all that great, and 75m seems like one of the better ones to use due to it being from a very iconic game.

Lost Woods as a ST? I wanted it to be a fairly normal stage w/ awesome music, but a Train would work better for all of "New Hyrule"
Well I'm under the impression that given the information that we have so far, the two Zelda stages will be based around Spirit Tracks and the upcoming Wii game. Since a train could easily travel through the Lost Woods, I think it works out fine if you just combine the two things.

Flipside and Flopside wouldn't make that good of a stage and besides SPM was nowhere close to the first 2 imo so GP would work better since most people list "Battle Stage" as PM stage so I say it works.
Why wouldn't it make a good stage exactly? And while your opinions may be what they are, its more likely that a Paper Mario stage would take refferences from the latest game rather than one in the middle of the road. Besides, even if you don't like the mechanics of SPM compared to the first two Paper Mario games, it doesn't really matter when you're making a stage for Smash, which isn't a game like either. Lastly, I don't think the Glitz Pit itself will be a stage, because there are several "arena" stages that could pottentially get into the next Smash game, and I think Punch Out should be the one to get it.

Easy, Sauria=Krystal, Corneria=Fox and Falco and Sagrasso HO=Wolf (play SF Assault it's actually his hideout if you haven't) I say it's reasonable since I didn't give him Past Stages (cutting Venom/Corneria)
But you're not giving other series a stage for each character, no are you? While 2 seems acceptable as a general number of new stages for all veteran series (excluding things like ICs, G&W, and what not) three just seems downright too much, especially as you're borrowing them all essentially from one game. (Yes, Sauria was in Adventures, but it wasn't really reffered tos Sauria if I recall until Assault. If you really wanted to claim it was from Adventures, then you should have a actual location within the place, rather than just the general planet name, unless you're suggesting that it is a Great Fox style level, in which case you're wasting pottential)

I say Red Gyrados (sp?) could be a boss and that be his stage
It's not that general, it could be like Delfino Pla. and fly to each country or something
Why would Storm Hill not be good? What would be better?
It's from Kirby Squeak Squad and maybe others idk
Why FF no good?
Red Gyrados isn't really boss material, since that should be reserved for Legendary Pokes. Him having a role simmilar to Palkia/Dialga's in Spear Pillar would work out fine in my opinion.

Flying around to each country sounds pretty dumb though, especially since each country doesn't really have a specific landmark to work with. Using the tower from the endgame as a single location would probably work out better.

As for DK stages, K.Rool's ship (half sunken or something, as to seperate it from the Zelda stage) or a stage themed around the various Donkey Kong racing games would both be good in my opinion.

Fire Field wouldn't work out too wll if you saw what it actually looks like now (essentially...well a field of fire. Not like Norfair either. Its just fire and more fire really) Places like Red Canyon or the newer design of Mute City would be my picks for a new F-Zero stage.
 

BBQTV

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mute city melee should have never been taken out its better then the new ****y *** port town areo
 

Jerome

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Messages
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Am I too late????

For Past Stages I would like to see:

64 Stages:

Saffron City
Kongo Jungle
Peach's Castle
METAL MARIO STAGE FTW (or at least make the background available in Stage Builder)

Melee Stages:

Fountain Of Dreams ftw
Temple ftw
Brinstar Depths ftw
Fourside ftw
Big Blue
Corneria or Venom
MAYBE Great Bay

Brawl Stages:

Castle Siege
Mario Bros.
Pirate Ship
Bridge of Eldin (maybe)
Norfair
MAYBE Mushroomy Kingdom
WW Inc.
Rumble Falls
MAYBE Yoshi's Island

New SSB4 Stages:

(Just some not all)
Lost Woods (LOZ)
Glitz Pit (Mario/Paper Mario)
Sauria (SF)
Sargasso Hideout (SF)
Newer SFA Corneria (Duh SF)
Tallon Overworld or Tallon IV (which ever name=same stage, Metroid)
Phaaze (Metroid)
S.S. Tidal (PKMN 3rd gen)
PKMN Colosseum or Stadium 3 (PKMN duh)
Tellius (FE, Delfino Style)
Storm Hill (DK)
Venus Lighthouse (GS)
Gamble Galaxy (Kirby)
Fire Field (F-Zero)
Angel Island Zone (Sonic)
Space Colony ARK (Sonic)
Saturn Valley (EB/Mother)
and many more....
I like some new stages you mentioned like Saturn Valley but why no Bowser's Castle stage?
And the past stages, I don't think any melee or n64 stages are comin back. It's not like i don't want them to come back its just there was no n64 stages in brawl so ssb4 will probably wont have melee or n64 stages. Besides ssb4 will have ots of new stages and will have alot of brawl stages also. There'd be too many stages if they had melee and n64 stages right?
 

Big-Cat

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@KumaOso

I don't see how having a non-obvious type of advantage is a problem that a update couldn't fix. If its used a lot by the community, the developers will notice it, and then they will be able to balance it, and if its too obscure that they don't notice it, then not enough people are abusing it so its not all too much of a problem anyways.
It doesn't work that way. The competitive scene gradually develops over time, with tier spots constantly being shifted. Remember how Pit was considered high tier at first, but now he's mid tier? If the developers were to balance updates, they are better off doing updates on a yearly basis like Namco and Capcom do for their fighters. Also, can you imagine the money involved to keep something up like that?

DLC not affecting the gameplay also depnds on the DLC in question. Generally, anything can affect the gameplay, from a character to a stage, even if the physics still remain in tact. Plus, its more likely that a patch would actually be free, while DLC would cost extra, and very few fighting games in my experience have actually had worthwhile DLC that wasn't already just locked on the disk.
I would not count on characters or stages as DLC. Alternate costumes and models, maybe, but nothing else. Adding characters and stages as DLC would split up the user-base. Patches, understandably, should be free, but there shouldn't be need unless it's absolutely necessary like removing a glitch that can crash the game.

Also for the comment a few pages back in regards to swapping moves, I would hope that the game is already balanced enough so that a specific set of moves isn't always chosen instead of another, but even if that is the case, it already happens to a degree anyways. Certain characters aren't chosen, and certain moves are never used. Its just the way things are some times. Even with your super specials, most of the time certain ones will not be used as well.
This should never be the case for any game with competitive aspects. This is what I don't like about the Smash games right now. There shouldn't be a handful of viable characters, every character should be able to win a tournament, even against the odds. As for moves, no moves are truly useless, else they would never be implemented. The proper description would be situational. The same goes for my super specials idea.
 

BSP

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mute city melee should have never been taken out its better then the new ****y *** port town areo
I can't agree with you more. The only problem with mute city was no ledges on the platform, but that could be added, b ut port town is just too dangerous to have a real match on IMO.
 
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It's up in the air, Soem say yes some say no, but this thread is about what we would like to see IF there was going to be a SSB4.

And for new stages, I would like to see a new Fire Emblem stage (Castle seige's middle section really kills it for me) A Golden Sun level in particular.

I think I'll post a list later.
 

Cyn

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i think a mario galaxy level would be cool. only because it would probably be a sweet looking level, cool backgrounds and what not
 

BBQTV

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I can't agree with you more. The only problem with mute city was no ledges on the platform, but that could be added, b ut port town is just too dangerous to have a real match on IMO.


awesome for agreeing why in the hell is big blue in brawl
 

DekuBoy

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I love Port Town's look but the gameplay is kinda broken. As for stages, here are my choices.

Train Ride (LOZ)
NSMB Mushroom Kingdom (SMB)
Boxing Ring (PUNCH OUT)
Smashville/The City (ANIMAL CROSSING)
Professor Hector's Lab (ROB)
Building Site (DK)
Gangplank Galleon (DK)
Hyrule Castle (LOZ)
Skytown (METROID)
Mother Brain's Lair (METROID)
Battle Frontier (PKMN)
Bowser's Castle (MARIO KART)
The Galaxy (SMB)
Wario's Factory (WW)
Underworld (KID ICARUS)
Tingle Island (LOZ)
Underwater (STARFY)
Neon City (PKMN)
Venus Lighthouse (GOLDEN SUN)

Well that's all I have so far. Opinions?
 

BBQTV

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Big Blue and Port Town are awesome. You're too small time if you keep getting killed on those. :V

I'll edit this post with my response Kuma, so wait a bit...
their fine 4 LOLZ but other then that not good stages
 
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I had a list but Smash boards freaked out and it was erased >.>

So the things i'd like to see is each character having a real actual home stage that relates to their game, a Kakarikio Village level (OoT style) and a Golden Sun level.
 

n88

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@Shino
Sounds good to me. The only problem I have with that is that I don't think Pokemon should have five-six stages. But I can live with that, so....what he said^^^^
 
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Yea, I do have to agree that the stages for Pokemon would be kind of much...but they would be rather diverse. The pokemon section of my list was
Pikachu- Viridian Forest
Jigglypuff- Saffron City
Pokemon Trainer- Either an old stadium, or a new one, idk which
Lucario- Iron Island, maybe?
New pokemon- New stage
or
Mewtwo- Ceurlean Cave
 

n88

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Sounds fine. I'm not sure why you seem to have New Pokemon or Mewtwo, as though we're getting one or the other, but the stages are fine.
 

DekuBoy

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Reply to my list please.

Don't you think Ordon village would be better for Link? And Outset Island for Toon Link? Gerudo Valley for Ganondorf? Hocotate for Olimar?

.............. Yes do it now.
 

n88

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Eh, that's fine. I'm not gonna get into it, either. I don't really feel like a Mewtwo debate at the moment. Pokemon Trainer should get Stadium 1. Or they could make a Colisseum stage. I don't know Pokemon very well, so for all I know, that's incredibly stupid, but I've heard the idea before.
 
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Reply to my list please.

Don't you think Ordon village would be better for Link? And Outset Island for Toon Link? Gerudo Valley for Ganondorf? Hocotate for Olimar?

.............. Yes do it now.
I'd prefer Karikio village because I personally hated Twlight Princess, and OoT is a much better game. I'd want something more "evil" for Ganon, like the Dark World palace from LttP, Outset is fine for Toon Link (Though a spirit tracks level might be fun, i like trains) and Olimar never went to Hocate in any of his games (as a stage anyway), any of the dungeons from the two games would make a better stage, IMO
 

DekuBoy

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Just combine Stadiums 1 and 2. Call it Colliseum. I'll be happy anyway.

And Shino I agree with you. Except for the Pikmin dungeons. I don't feel a stage like that would well represent Pikmin.
 
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Just combine Stadiums 1 and 2. Call it Colliseum. I'll be happy anyway.

And Shino I agree with you. Except for the Pikmin dungeons. I don't feel a stage like that would well represent Pikmin.
I don't like the idea of Collesium and I didn'treally like stadium two, so i replaced it with three while leaving 1 in existense.

And I understand that none would weel represtn it, but Hocate was neevr even seen except for the opeing and closing cut scenes
 

DekuBoy

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I just want a Pikmin stage which asctually suits it in style. In pikmin there are creatures everywhere lots of activity and beautiful visuals. Distant Planet is so.... BROWN! IT'S LIKE GEARS OF WAR!
 
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...Why would there be creatures at Hocate? Why not just create a newer version of Awkening Woods with a more colorful, active interaction...perhaps a larger stage.
 

n88

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@DekuBoy's list

n88's Official Seal of Approval

Train Ride (LOZ)
NSMB Mushroom Kingdom (SMB)
Boxing Ring (PUNCH OUT)
Smashville/The City (ANIMAL CROSSING)
Professor Hector's Lab (ROB)
Building Site (DK)
Gangplank Galleon (DK)
Hyrule Castle (LOZ)
Skytown (METROID)
Mother Brain's Lair (METROID)
Battle Frontier (PKMN)
The Galaxy (SMB)
Wario's Factory (WW)
Underworld (KID ICARUS)
Tingle Island (LOZ)
Underwater (STARFY)
Neon City (PKMN)
Venus Lighthouse (GOLDEN SUN)


n88's Official Seal of Disapproval

Bowser's Castle (MARIO KART)

I want a Bowser's Castle stage, but I really hope it isn't based off Mario Kart. Its appearances from Mario Kart is fine, but castles were like, the only dark lodations inn Mario games. I wouldn't want to detract from that by having Shy Guys driving around in the middle of it.
 
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Agreed, Bowser's castle needs to be the old school style, I'd also like to see the Koopa Clown Car thing implmented, maybe as an occasionaly scrolling platform?
 

n88

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I was thinking that it would look like this, except without he half-pipe (Just a flat platform instead). Lava below, naturally, and the statue is there to spew the occasional giant fireball.
 

Pieman0920

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It doesn't work that way. The competitive scene gradually develops over time, with tier spots constantly being shifted. Remember how Pit was considered high tier at first, but now he's mid tier? If the developers were to balance updates, they are better off doing updates on a yearly basis like Namco and Capcom do for their fighters. Also, can you imagine the money involved to keep something up like that?
They could do something original then, now couldn't they? Just because it hasn't been done before, doesn't mean it can't be done at all. Plus, I would think that they wouldn't try to patch every little thing, but rather wait and see if there was too much fan outcry for too long.


I would not count on characters or stages as DLC. Alternate costumes and models, maybe, but nothing else. Adding characters and stages as DLC would split up the user-base. Patches, understandably, should be free, but there shouldn't be need unless it's absolutely necessary like removing a glitch that can crash the game.
Hmm? Why wouldn't these things be DLC? If a character or stage not in the game is only avalible through download, then it should be DLC, right? And quite frankly, a character or a stage through DLC would actually make the DLC worthwhile, instead of a crummy little costume or model that cost you like 5 bucks a pop. Thus either you have DLC that divides the community, but is actually worth downloading, or you have random junk that is just there to make money. Really, if anything there should be no DLC at all, unless its in the form we have right now, or patches. =/

This should never be the case for any game with competitive aspects. This is what I don't like about the Smash games right now. There shouldn't be a handful of viable characters, every character should be able to win a tournament, even against the odds. As for moves, no moves are truly useless, else they would never be implemented. The proper description would be situational. The same goes for my super specials idea.
If you don't think that things are never used, and they are all situational, then what's the problem with move swapping? If balanced right, it could create a lot more depth, and a lot more situations when dealing with fights. (and teh mindgaemz) I don't see why you think that the super specials are so different from the swapped moves.


Also I agree with n88, in that if Bowser's Castle is a stage it shouldn't be based around Mario Kart, and rather be based around...well itself. (And if not that, it can be based around NSMB Wii) Quite frankly, I don't think there should be a new Mario Kart stage in the next game, since the obvious next step for that would be Rainbow Road, but that's sort of pointless when you have a Galaxy stage.
 
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Haha i find it intresting that you used the Mario Kart stage to demonstrate that you don't want a Mario Kart stage.

My idea would be a stage with two major platforms separated by lava, with the Clown Car floating in and out acting as another platform.
 
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