[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

Kuma, no offense but you try to make things more complicated than they need to be, I can kinda understand (but don't want) alternate B moves but alternate airs for R.O.B.? I don't think Smash should be made more like other fighting games, I think it should be unique the way it is.

Aside from the R.O.B. thing I thought what I've been saying hasn't been all too difficult to understand. The R.O.B. thing was just a possible idea. Although you might as well just make the alternate air his regular air as well.

 

[UberMario]

Do you guys mean real music? Cuz they would never take it.

No. I mean like remixes of game songs.

Like this

 

[Paper Mario Master]

No. I mean like remixes of game songs.

Like this

That's awesome, and that's what I thought, but not just remixes suggesting songs would be good too.

Kuma, I didn't say it was hard to understand just that it would be too complicated for the game and that complication takes up space that could otherwise be used for stage builder and stages in general

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

We don't need more time on stages >.> The stages that take a long time to make, are less enjoyabel , IMO.

I think the game needs more simple techs like the one's kuma is suggessting. I wouldnt mind having easily implemented attacks instead of learning ridculously difficult Advanced techs.

I want a way to implement personal music in Smash at your own discretion (so people who don't want to can't BS about it)

 

[Paper Mario Master]

We don't need more time on stages >.> The stages that take a long time to make, are less enjoyabel , IMO.

I think the game needs more simple techs like the one's kuma is suggessting. I wouldnt mind having easily implemented attacks instead of learning ridculously difficult Advanced techs.

I want a way to implement personal music in Smash at your own discretion (so people who don't want to can't BS about it)

Which stage do you like better? Frigate Orpheon or Norfair? Which one took more time?

Some of the stages were pretty bad *cough*hanenbow*cough* How long do you think it took to make that? and I didn't say more time I meant more space.

I like the techniques the way they are.

Maybe but I think I MIGHT be user music or improved Stage Builder........

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Item Idea

Soda Popinski's Grape Soda

Effects: higher speed, 25% damage healing

Any opinions?

 

[Big-Cat]

Kuma, I didn't say it was hard to understand just that it would be too complicated for the game and that complication takes up space that could otherwise be used for stage builder and stages in general

How would it be complicated for the game? If the coding is done efficiently and clearly, there shouldn't be a problem, assuming you meant from a processing perspective. Anyway, I doubt that super specials and what not would take up too much space. If you take away the SSE cutscenes, Brawl doesn't even fill up all the way on the first layer. Whether or not they take up too much space for other things depends on data management.

Also, since you brought up the stage builder, I ultimately want to see Smash as something for everyone. The casuals have a great time fighting as their favorite characters while using flashy special moves. The competitive have a deep game full of strategy and much better balance (because you can't perfect it).

Now, I want to see some basic, but limitless potential, ideas for the creative folk. I would like to see ability to customize textures of stages, custom stages (including the background), character models, and the ability to make machinima with pimped out camera options and forward and rewinding videos, all with the option of sending these to the internet for people to download and enjoy themselves.

 

[BBQTV]

I'm guessing you've never set foot in the Tactical discussion boards.

yep your right.oh and to the person with the dark samus avatar that might not be a bad idea for stickers to get more use out of them.the story mode is the only reason we cant say their ****. okay quick question why are stickers in brawl? we could have done with out them.

 

[Jerome]

I don't like that item idea...

I must ask from a scale of 1-10 (10 being the most shocked) how shocked would you guys be if Birdo is a newcomer for SSB4? If you asked me I'd say 3. They would probably make her/him like Yoshi and make Birdo have it's series. I bet her/his victory theme would be the music after you beat Birdo in Super Mario Brothers 2.

One more thing how bout have the option to change characters victory theme. Like if you don't like Kirby's new winning tune you could change it to Kirby's N64 winning theme.
What do you guys think?

 

[n88]

@BBQTV

Stickers were an attempt to add more depth to SSE, I believe.

@KumaOso

Yes, some special moves might get discarded, but that's not great logic. The same thing already happens with characters anyway.

 

[BBQTV]

i dont think so kirby theme is awesome show me the N64 oh and brido is not going even though you didnt say that im just saying

 

[UberMario]

Item ideas:

Dizzy Dial (Paper Mario):

-Causes the stage (visually) to rotate to an odd angle, but controls remain the same as if nothing happened. (kind of like what happens on Spear Pillar)

Cork Pop Gun (S-E)

Hydra (Kirby Air Ride)

-Similar to the Dragoon, but it comes in from the side, and time is not frozen. (A.K.A. you have time to dodge it, but the height that it comes in is randomlly selected to equal one of the other battlers)


Birdo WON'T be in. Waluigi, Toad, Dry Bones, Dry Bowser, Koopa, Boo, Bowser Jr., and Petey have better odds.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@BBQTV

Stickers were an attempt to add more depth to SSE, I believe.

@KumaOso

Yes, some special moves might get discarded, but that's not great logic. The same thing already happens with characters anyway.

Exactly, so why bother adding in more moves to ignore instead of working to fox moves characters don't need.

Also PMM, stages like Wario Ware were what i had in mind, they take up both time and space and are more annying then large or scrolling stages (both of which I actually enjoy)

 

[Jerome]

Lol k Birdo won't be gettin in then. It's not like I'm a Birdo fan I'm a Hammer Bro. fan. But theres a big chance nintendo will add another mario character that won't be part of the mario series you know like Yoshi and Wario. So if its not Birdo who would it be? Heres the some choices.

Waluigi
Hammer Bro.
Dry Bones
Daisy
Rosalina

Bowser Jr. would be part of the mario series so i didnt list him.

 

[n88]

@Shino

Honestly, because (To me, at least)

More Attacks=More Variety/Fun

More Balance=Who Gives a ****? If one character's broken, the SBR can ban him. Problem solved. To a certain degree, balance is good. But I'd rather see a little more content than marginally better, current content. Otherwise, they might as well just update Brawl for balance through online modifications.

Plus, Smash is not trageted towards competitives. Large amounts of time will not be spent on balancing the roster anyway. Might as well get some new toys to play with.

 

[BBQTV]

when you say new toys you mean......

 

[Paper Mario Master]

What exactly do you mean (KumaOso) by coustom character models? Like Textures?
As for Stage Builder,
Way more backgrounds and able to choose time (i.e. Day, Afternoon, Night) of background.
Have a city themed background kinda like Fourside.
You should also be able to add background blocks or something like that.
Parts aren't limited to backgrounds, textures of parts are.
Moving/Changing Stages(Castle Siege, Mushroomy Kingdom, Delfino Plaza)
Fire, Water and Sand available unlockable parts (in shop if there is one)
Series themed parts/hazards (i.e. parts from stages and example: Metroid=Lava at the bottom that rises)
Breakable Blocks
No extra space taken up except for stuff that makes sense (i.e. Falling Blocks)
Rotate 360* around
One more Larger Size

and that's all I can think of right now....

@ Jerome, I'm an 11 for Birdo, those that you had to choose from would all be w/ Mario the one that wouldn't would be *cough*Paper Mario*cough*

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Can someone please tell me what's wrong with my previous item idea?

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Can someone please tell me what's wrong with my previous item idea?

I think it was that it gave you too many boons........

Whatdoya think of the Stage Builder stuff I posted?

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

I think it was that it gave you too many boons........

Whatdoya think of the Stage Builder stuff I posted?

Okay then lets remove the power increase

 

[Big-Cat]

More Balance=Who Gives a ****? If one character's broken, the SBR can ban him. Problem solved. To a certain degree, balance is good. But I'd rather see a little more content than marginally better, current content. Otherwise, they might as well just update Brawl for balance through online modifications.

Plus, Smash is not targeted towards competitives. Large amounts of time will not be spent on balancing the roster anyway. Might as well get some new toys to play with.

The entire competitive community cares. There shouldn't be only a handful of genuinely good characters. Every character should be able to beat another with enough effort.

A fighting game, or any game with competitive properties, needs to have balance. It's impossible to have perfect balance, but it's important that you get as close as you can.

As I said earlier, what content they add ultimately lies in data management, resource management, and time management. If they have separate teams for balancing and adding in other things like trophies, stickers, event matches, and other new modes, it's doable.

Also, you should know as well as I do that Brawl updates aren't going to happen. We're stuck with this version until the next game.

You say that Smash is targeted towards competitives, I say that Nintendo is starting to develop an interest in this aspect. As I mentioned a while back, Nintendo hired David Sirlin, who's more or less a fighting game guru, to identify numerous aspects of Brawl's gameplay, to show that there was more to Brawl than what met the eye of the consumers.

What exactly do you mean (KumaOso) by coustom character models? Like Textures?
As for Stage Builder,
Way more backgrounds and able to choose time (i.e. Day, Afternoon, Night) of background.
Have a city themed background kinda like Fourside.
You should also be able to add background blocks or something like that.
Parts aren't limited to backgrounds, textures of parts are.
Moving/Changing Stages(Castle Siege, Mushroomy Kingdom, Delfino Plaza)
Fire, Water and Sand available unlockable parts (in shop if there is one)
Series themed parts/hazards (i.e. parts from stages and example: Metroid=Lava at the bottom that rises)
Breakable Blocks
No extra space taken up except for stuff that makes sense (i.e. Falling Blocks)
Rotate 360* around
One more Larger Size

and that's all I can think of right now....

@ Jerome, I'm an 11 for Birdo, those that you had to choose from would all be w/ Mario the one that wouldn't would be *cough*Paper Mario*cough*

Yeah, I meant textures. I'm dying to make Blankachu.

For Custom stage backgrounds, I want to see the option of customizing the background.
I also want to see the option of editing the textures on stage parts, including color for things like fire and water.
I support the idea for series based hazards.

I pretty much support what you have in mind.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

The entire competitive community cares. There shouldn't be only a handful of genuinely good characters. Every character should be able to beat another with enough effort.

A fighting game, or any game with competitive properties, needs to have balance. It's impossible to have perfect balance, but it's important that you get as close as you can.

As I said earlier, what content they add ultimately lies in data management, resource management, and time management. If they have separate teams for balancing and adding in other things like trophies, stickers, event matches, and other new modes, it's doable.

Also, you should know as well as I do that Brawl updates aren't going to happen. We're stuck with this version until the next game.

You say that Smash is targeted towards competitives, I say that Nintendo is starting to develop an interest in this aspect. As I mentioned a while back, Nintendo hired David Sirlin, who's more or less a fighting game guru, to identify numerous aspects of Brawl's gameplay, to show that there was more to Brawl than what met the eye of the consumers.


Yeah, I meant textures. I'm dying to make Blankachu.

For Cutsom stage backgrounds, I want to see the option of customizing the background.
I also want to see the option of editing the textures on stage parts, including color for things like fire and water.
I support the idea for series based hazards.

I pretty much support what you have in mind.

Darn it I forgot about color templates for the parts, you can have more than one color on the stage.

 

[Jerome]

Arrgh! I want SSB4 to be released now! Why should do we have to wait so long? If SSB4 comes out in 2012 then the next one probably won't come out until 2016 to 2018! Why can't nintendo make 2 smash games per console? Since the next nintendo console will probably have a 4 to 6 year life span why can't they make one regular smash game then 1 to 2 years later they make a sequal or a smash special edition! Oh, and A Super Smash Brothers DS should of been out by now. Who agrees with me?

 

[Zario777]

I dont unfortuatly. To play with more than one person in your family, they would HAVE to have at LEAST a DS to play with you, so you would always have to play over wi-fi for even your family members (who could also not have a DS). As like a mini-series, sure, but as SSB4, hex no.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I think an interesting discussion here is past stages. I have yet to see any discussion on this but...

While I enjoy having some of them in brawl, It's annoying how they could've easily instead have another new mother stage but instead but an old one and call it new. Same goes to kirby and a few other franchises, and assuming It goes by the tradition so far, then we wouldn't even get melee or 64 stages, which oddly enough, 64 has some of my favorite stages.

However, Sakurai has stated the reason for no downloadable content is because of the wii's lack of a HD, but assuming the rumor of Wii HD Is true (Or, there being a harddrive IN The next nintendo console), then I think it would be pretty cool to see a lot of previous stages at one point without having 70 old stages on-disc or just a slight few from brawl.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I'd definetly like to see Fourside, Peach's castle (both), Hyrule castle, Saffron city, Termina, Kongo Jungle, and Corneria return.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

FOUNTAIN OF DREAMS!!!!!!

It should replace Green Greens in Past Stages

FOURSIDE!!!!

It should replace Onett in Past Stages

 

[Cyn]

awww i miss fountain of dreams

 

[Tacel]

They should bring back old stages.
And yes, I am mainly talking about Hyrule Castle.
Even if it means that they have to replacing Melee stages for N64 stages.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Melee stages.
I love Temple, Dream Land, Green Greens, Fourside, and Onett, but I love the N64 stages a little more.
Also, they need to expand Corneria to original size.

 

[Jerome]

I don't think any Melee or N64 stages are comin back. But, I'm sure nintendo will make another big stage just as good as Hyrule temple. Mabey they will also make a new and improved Peach's Castle.

So anyone have any ssb4 stages ideas? Here's my ideas:

Bowser's Castle
Good Egg Galaxy
Flat Zone 3
Bonus Stage (Ice Climber stage)
Twoson
Castle Lololo
Peach's Castle (new and improved)
Pokemon Coliseum
Underworld
SeaSide Gate (Sonic stage)

That's all I can think of for now.
What do you guys think?

 

[lordvaati]

I don't think any Melee or N64 stages are comin back. But, I'm sure nintendo will make another big stage just as good as Hyrule temple. Mabey they will also make a new and improved Peach's Castle.

So anyone have any ssb4 stages ideas? Here's my ideas:

Bowser's Castle
Good Egg Galaxy
Flat Zone 3
Bonus Stage (Ice Climber stage)
Twoson
Castle Lololo
Peach's Castle (new and improved)
Pokemon Coliseum
Underworld
SeaSide Gate (Sonic stage)

That's all I can think of for now.
What do you guys think?

a stage based on Kirby Canvas Curse would be cool.

And personally I hate HT, but that probably wont stop them from using something like it. and New Pork City was as big as HT.

 

[Finman702]

I like Hyrule Temple, but I HATE New Pork City.

 

[BBQTV]

i hate it too anyway the fountain of dreams needs to come back a lot of brawl stages suck

 

[n88]

@Kuma

I meant that SSB4 could get balance updates, not Brawl. That way, more resources could be allocated to new content rather than trying to balance. Mind you, I would love a well-balanced game, but it seems unlikely to me that the balance will be great anyway. So why not give up mediocre, pre-release balancing attempts in exchange for some genuine, new content, with balancing taking place after release?

And I said that Smash isn't targeted towards competitives, not that it is. Admittedly, that could change, but at the moment, it's pretty casual-based.

At any rate, Smash isn't quite as poorly balanced as it seems if you play w/FS's. Falco easily challenges

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Final Smashes do not add balance because they too are unbalanced. PK starstorm,Cook Kirby, Waddle dee craziness are weaker compared to Volt Tackle, Super Sonic, Grenade launcher, Etc.

 

[n88]

@Shino

Oops, I didn't actually mean to post that. At any rate, they do add some balance in that Falco is as good as MK w/FS's, if not better. There's no single fantastic character.

As for stages, I'd like to see updated versions of Peach's Castle, Fourside, Fountain of Dreams, Great Bay, and Saffron City.

 

[Finman702]

Falco is aleady top tier. With his FS he becomes broken, IMO.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@Shino

Oops, I didn't actually mean to post that. At any rate, they do add some balance in that Falco is as good as MK w/FS's, if not better. There's no single fantastic character.

As for stages, I'd like to see updated versions of Peach's Castle, Fourside, Fountain of Dreams, Great Bay, and Saffron City.

What exactly does updated mean. Graphics or structure?

 

[Jerome]

Final Smashes do not add balance because they too are unbalanced. PK starstorm,Cook Kirby, Waddle dee craziness are weaker compared to Volt Tackle, Super Sonic, Grenade launcher, Etc.

PK Starstorm is way better than Volt Tackle. Speaking of final smashes do ya think nintendo will change or buff some of the characters final smashes. A lot of people disagree but i find Ness's Final smash better than Lucas's final smash. Ness's is faster and more powerful and when i play brawl on wifi people seem to have more trouble dodging ness fs than lucas's. Well to improve both of there fc in ssb4 the should make the stars home slighty toward opponents so pk starstorm can be even harder to dodge.

 

[n88]

What exactly does updated mean. Graphics or structure?

I was thinkin' graphics. Chnaging the structure would make them different stages.