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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Cyn

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He just said that they were not suited for fighting. It's also interesting to note that he only said that for the Villager. Therefore, Tom Nook is still fair game.

Anyway, I think he'll change his views if the demand is high enough.

I was reading the Balanced Brawl thread, and I noticed something that has been executed rather poorly, IMO: Zelda and Pokemon Trainer's team aspects. I would rather see the swap like something out of Capcom vs. games. The way they are now, it's risky to swap to another character as you're open to a heavy hit as soon as the swap's finished.

Zelda and Sheik could swap almost seamlessly with a quick flash, but the status of the character swapped passes on (ie, once Zelda double jumps, Sheik can't jump). The same goes for Pokemon Trainer where he can swap in the air and pull one out and put on in simultaneously.
Regarding zelda/sheik: I totally agree it should be back how it was with melee and the status pass should be there. Afterall she is all the same person, but I disagree with the pokemon, since they are all different I agree with the change time and not passing on status except damage of course.
 

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I see what you mean by wanting it like Melee, but I'd like something a little faster than that so as to promote the team aspect of Zelda and Sheik, but I agree on what you said.

As for the Pokemon Trainer, I think your idea could be exploited. After all, if Squirtle has a lot of damage, you can swap to Ivysaur who has none. Now, if it was done so that once one of them dies, it can't be used until all three are dead, then I could get behind it.

In other words, if Charizard dies, Pokemon Trainer can't pull him out again until Squirtle and Ivysaur are taken care of.
 

Cyn

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I see what you mean by wanting it like Melee, but I'd like something a little faster than that so as to promote the team aspect of Zelda and Sheik, but I agree on what you said.

As for the Pokemon Trainer, I think your idea could be exploited. After all, if Squirtle has a lot of damage, you can swap to Ivysaur who has none. Now, if it was done so that once one of them dies, it can't be used until all three are dead, then I could get behind it.


In other words, if Charizard dies, Pokemon Trainer can't pull him out again until Squirtle and Ivysaur are taken care of.
If you want zelda/sheik to be a team like on capcom vs games then I don't think it will work well. And as for the pokemon I said they do share damage but nothing else. Like they can jump still regardless if the last pokemon jumped or not since they are all different.

-or-

Each pokemon keeps his damage. Meaning if you call out another pokemon then they will be fresh but the pokemon you poketed still retains their damage. And if the pokemon dies then yeah you can't use them again until the others have been knocked off or something. So if you build up all their damage meters then you opponent has the opportunity to get 3 quick kills. But of course if you are smart then you won't play that way. Anyways I'm babling and I'm sure someone will tell me why there is no way that would work. To be honest I'm sure someone would figure out a really cheap way to use pokemon trainer if he was like that.

I don't even like pokemon trainer so I don't even know why I care lol
 

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He should definitely have been alone? What about the other two? I think charizard should have stayed as a pokeball and they could have developed ivysaur more.
Charizard is too much of a god to stay a Pokeball. As for the other two, they should had evolved into their third stage to perform a much better Triple Finish, how epic would it be for them to use Hydro Canon, Blast Burn, and Frenzy Plant? Pretty **** epic that way. =P
 

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Charizard is too much of a god to stay a Pokeball. As for the other two, they should had evolved into their third stage to perform a much better Triple Finish, how epic would it be for them to use Hydro Canon, Blast Burn, and Frenzy Plant? Pretty **** epic that way. =P
charzy is okay, OKAY!
 

Cyn

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Like I said at the end of my post. I honestly don't care what they do to the trainer trio, I don't like playing with any of them, so naturally I don't care how they change them or if they break them up. All I reallly care about is what changes they make to zelda/sheik
 

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charzy is okay, OKAY!
Buuuu, wrong answer. )=

Like I said at the end of my post. I honestly don't care what they do to the trainer trio, I don't like playing with any of them, so naturally I don't care how they change them or if they break them up. All I reallly care about is what changes they make to zelda/sheik
You don't like playing as the first starters of Pokemon?!? Oh well, I guess it's not everyday I hear this, but I don't think they would make changes with Zelda and Sheik transformations.
 

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If you want zelda/sheik to be a team like on capcom vs games then I don't think it will work well. And as for the pokemon I said they do share damage but nothing else. Like they can jump still regardless if the last pokemon jumped or not since they are all different.

-or-

Each pokemon keeps his damage. Meaning if you call out another pokemon then they will be fresh but the pokemon you poketed still retains their damage. And if the pokemon dies then yeah you can't use them again until the others have been knocked off or something. So if you build up all their damage meters then you opponent has the opportunity to get 3 quick kills. But of course if you are smart then you won't play that way. Anyways I'm babling and I'm sure someone will tell me why there is no way that would work. To be honest I'm sure someone would figure out a really cheap way to use pokemon trainer if he was like that.

I don't even like pokemon trainer so I don't even know why I care lol
I don't want the swap to be a carbon copy of of Capcom vs. games, I just want the swap to be much faster so the team aspect is finally implemented properly.

I think the second idea would be fine if balanced properly. It would be cheap if you could do MvC2 infinites with Pokemon Trainer. I see Pokemon Trainer as the character with the greatest learning curve in the game.
 

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He just said that they were not suited for fighting. It's also interesting to note that he only said that for the Villager. Therefore, Tom Nook is still fair game.

Anyway, I think he'll change his views if the demand is high enough.
No, he meant all Animal Crossing characters. He included the franchise. Also, he probably wont add the character despite demand. If you want a character would would not normally fight fight, you'll have to talk to Capcom.
 

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I don't want the swap to be a carbon copy of of Capcom vs. games, I just want the swap to be much faster so the team aspect is finally implemented properly.
I agree that would be good, it would be pretty sweet if zelda/sheik could change mid dash seamlessly without and transformation lag.

Honestly it wouldn't affect me much since I'm a strictly sheik main since the day melee came out
 

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@ Kuma: Why you want half the Smash stuff we've talked about lately to be like other fighting games? I say Smash should stay unique in most ways. If you like the others play them.

Pokemon Trainer should pretty much stay the same, NO CHARY DIE NO COME BACK, NONE OF THAT. What if I only like playing as one or only fell like playing as one that time? Would I have to go jump off the stage as Ivysaur to get Chary back? Bad Idea.

Switches FOR ALL CHARACTERS should either be faster or they do some kind of damage when they get switched (Like Samus in her FS) (long time) or both.

There should be a way to only play as one pokemon instead of taking the time after you die to switch all the way back. Maybe just come back as who you were when you died and have to switch if you WANT to change.

Well I think that's all I have to say on the subject for now.
 

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@ Kuma: Why you want half the Smash stuff we've talked about lately to be like other fighting games? I say Smash should stay unique in most ways. If you like the others play them.
Why? I think Smash could benefit from some of these aspects. I'm not asking for Focus Attacks, armor breakers, air grabbing (which wouldn't work), QCF motions, multiple button inputs (ala Raging Demon), custom moves (like weapons in SC), or other stuff. I would just like to see a couple of things. At the very least, I want a balanced roster, a faster game, hitstun, and more emphasis on offense then camping.

Super Meter is highly debateable and I'm not opening that can of worms again soon. The whole swap thing is so that they actually play like a team. Look what happened in Melee. Nobody played Zelda, only Sheik yet they were designed to compliment each other.

Pokemon Trainer should pretty much stay the same, NO CHARY DIE NO COME BACK, NONE OF THAT. What if I only like playing as one or only fell like playing as one that time? Would I have to go jump off the stage as Ivysaur to get Chary back? Bad Idea.
I can see how this can be a problem. Competitive players will tell you, "Tough ****. If you want to play Pokemon Trainer, you better learn all three to be good." On the other hand, you may be good with just one of them and not need the other two. In the current state, if Charizard dies, you have to swap twice to get back to him which will put you at a disadvantage. I suppose one way to work around that would be to give you the option of using all three or one.
 

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Pokemon Trainer should remain the same.

It is annoying having to swap through them when you lose a stock, but it is one of the defining features of the character. Playing them individually would be like playing as Popo, or having Olimar constantly have a Pikmin of each colour with him at all times, and keep them when he loses a stock.

The 3 Pokemon being together isn't canon per se, but it is familiar now in Smash. Ask someone one thing about the Pokemon Trainer and they'll probably mention the switching.
 

Paper Mario Master

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The 3rd paragraph of my last post explains how PT should work making it better for everybody.....at least everybody playing as PT XD
 

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The 3rd paragraph of my last post explains how PT should work making it better for everybody.....at least everybody playing as PT XD
But why would throwing a Pokeball at a Pokemon, putting one in and then taking one out hurt anyone?

And if you go from the Pokemon games themselves, Pokemon switching isn't instantaneous. Pikachu represents the Pokemon franchise, Pokemon Trainer represents the actual gameplay.
 

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But why would throwing a Pokeball at a Pokemon, putting one in and then taking one out hurt anyone?

And if you go from the Pokemon games themselves, Pokemon switching isn't instantaneous. Pikachu represents the Pokemon franchise, Pokemon Trainer represents the actual gameplay.
Not this word again. We need to get this word out of our vocabulary or do something else about it. Smash is not a Nintendo Congress Battle Royale.

You really shouldn't use the original games as a reference in a case like this. Fighting games and RPGs tend to go about at nearly opposite speeds.

You're better off using the anime as a reference for Pokemon Trainer since that takes place more in real time than in the games.
 

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@PT Stuff

Why not make it so that if you hold [whatever button] as you respawn, you'll keep the same Poke, but by default, he'll switch?

EDIT: @Kuma

The Zelda/Sheik and PT switches are slow because the Wii has to load the other character. It's not a design-thing. Try transforming when the character you're changing into is in the fight. Or pausing during transformation.
 

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@PT Stuff

Why not make it so that if you hold [whatever button] as you respawn, you'll keep the same Poke, but by default, he'll switch?
That sounds like a perfect idea to me. Hey n88 go buy a lotto ticket. You just had your #777 post!!!
 

drag0nscythe

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do his taunt change his look?if you could fight like this it would be cool but still for some reason this feels werid
Yes, taunts would change his 'mode'. So to speak. Each mode would excel in a different stat, with normal mode being balanced.

---

As for the super meter. I like the idea. If it matches the one in SF3, where you can use a charged move, it would be great.

You have A moves, you have charge A moves. Well, have a charged Charge A move. Build up a meter (anyway, not important right now.) then it gives you a slight edge. Use a faster and stronger then normal attack.

It would also allow for smash balls to be more useful and make it so FS are more prominent. Make the Smash ball just another item (but still be the insa FS.)
 

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oh i got it we have the meter but heres the catch we can only use it if we have a smash ball
 

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I think that if there was a meter I'd want it to be difficult to build up, and if you die it empties or gets cut in half. If its too easy to build up then I would just turn it off (if that's an option, which I would hope it would be.)
 

n88

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I don't really want to get into the meter business right now; no-one's changing anyone else's mind.

How does this sound for a proposed roster? (Prediction, not wishlist)

Super Mario Bros
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Dr. Mario

DK+Mario Spin-offs
DK
Diddy
K. Rool
Wario
Captain Syrup
Yoshi

Legend of Zelda
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Toon Zelda/Tetra

LoZ Spin-offs
Tingle

Famicom
Samus (ZSS)
Ridley
Pit
Ice Climbers
Little Mac
ROB

Kirby Superstar
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

Pikmin
Olimar

Mother
Ness
Lucas

StarFox
Fox
Falco
Wolf

F-Zero
C. Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Pokemon
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
5th Gen Poke
Mewtwo

Fire Emblem
Marth
Ike
Roy

Game & Watch
Mr. Game & Watch

3rd Party
Snake
Sonic
Megaman

48 Characters (53 w/transformations)
 

Cyn

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I don't really want to get into the meter business right now; no-one's changing anyone else's mind.

How does this sound for a proposed roster? (Prediction, not wishlist)

Super Mario Bros
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Dr. Mario

DK+Mario Spin-offs
DK
Diddy
K. Rool
Wario
Captain Syrup
Yoshi

Legend of Zelda
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Toon Zelda/Tetra

LoZ Spin-offs
Tingle

Famicom
Samus (ZSS)
Ridley
Pit
Ice Climbers
Little Mac
ROB

Kirby Superstar
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

Pikmin
Olimar

Mother
Ness
Lucas

StarFox
Fox
Falco
Wolf

F-Zero
C. Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Pokemon
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
5th Gen Poke
Mewtwo

Fire Emblem
Marth
Ike
Roy

Game & Watch
Mr. Game & Watch

3rd Party
Snake
Sonic
Megaman

48 Characters (53 w/transformations)
Sounds great to me except bowser jr. Like I said a few days ago I'd rather see one of the magic wand bearing koopa kids from mario bros 3. And captain syrup?? Come on!!!lol also to add to your list I'd like to see someone from castlevania, whether it be one of the originals like simon or richter belmont. Who I'd really like to see from the castlevania series would be Alucard from the symphony of the night. That would be a great 3rd party character. Anyone remember symphony of the night? Best castlevania game to date. I only mention castlevania since it used to be nintendo exclusive.
 

n88

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Bowser Jr. has been more important than the Koopalings lately, and he's got more fanbase (Admittedly, hate as well. But Sakurai doesn't conduct hate polls) than any one of them.

Captain Syrup got on because she's fairly popular. I don't know much about the character, but she's clearly got support.

I think Sakurai will be reluctant to add too many third parties. Plus, Castlevania is owned by Konami, which hurts its chances slightly.
 

Clownbot

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I don't really want to get into the meter business right now; no-one's changing anyone else's mind.

How does this sound for a proposed roster? (Prediction, not wishlist)

Super Mario Bros
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Dr. Mario

Enlighten me as to why Dr. Mario has chance over Rosalina, or Paper Mario for that matter.

DK+Mario Spin-offs
DK
Diddy
K. Rool
Wario
Captain Syrup
Yoshi

Somewhat skeptical about Captain Syrup's chances.

Legend of Zelda
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Toon Zelda/Tetra

Same as Capt. Syrup @Toon Zelda/Tetra

LoZ Spin-offs
Tingle

Famicom
Samus (ZSS)
Ridley
Pit
Ice Climbers
Little Mac
ROB

Kirby Superstar
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

Pikmin
Olimar

Mother
Ness
Lucas

StarFox
Fox
Falco
Wolf

F-Zero
C. Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Pokemon
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
5th Gen Poke
Mewtwo

Eh, as always, Pokemon is the most confusing franchise when it comes to what characters will be included. I don't really see anything here that I disagree with extremely, but Mewtwo's the closest thing; it'll take a lot of fan demand to get him back.

Fire Emblem
Marth
Ike
Roy

I find it doubtful that Roy would come back.

Game & Watch
Mr. Game & Watch

3rd Party
Snake
Sonic
Megaman

48 Characters (53 w/transformations)
Comments bolded.

All in all, this is, for the most part, a fair prediction. In my opinion, that is. :p
 

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KumaOso said:
Not this word again. We need to get this word out of our vocabulary or do something else about it. Smash is not a Nintendo Congress Battle Royale.
Overreaction much? It's just a word. It doesn't automatically mean that the person using it is a fail reps wh0re or whatever you call us. :ohwell:

That's a great roster, n88. The only thing I would do differently is have Paper Mario instead of Dr. Mario
stupid controversy
group Tingle with the mainstream Zelda series. He's got plenty of his own games, but they're all basically completely different games, except with Tingle in them. That said, Balloon Trip of Love is a direct sequel to Rosy Rupeeland
I should import it
, so you never know.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I'm dubious of Captain Syrup's chances like Clownbot. I'm thinking Wario will stay as is, but if it does get another rep (Shut up) it would probably be a WarioWare character seeing as it's significantly more popular than Wario Land.
 

n88

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@Clownbot

Doc - Because he's easy Sakurai can crap out six clones in the time it takes him to make one character.

C. Syrup - Wario Series outsells Metroid, is very popular, C. Syrup is very popular. Seemed logical to me.

Toon Zleda/Tetra - Eh, that one's there because Sakurai seems to have considered the idea before, and TZ would be a clone, which helps. (There may also be a degree of character bias getting her name up there)

Mewtwo - Why do people always say M2 isn't coming back? I'm going to post an analogy here. You really want to go to the park on Wednesday, but you don't get a chance. You have plenty of free time on the weekend, so you're considering going on Saturday.

Would you decide not to go because you didn't go on Wednesday?

Roy - Talk to Toise. He does the argument justice.

EDIT: @Wizzerd

I put Tingle off by himself because even if his games are mostly unrelated, they're still Tingle games. And his appearances in the main series are decreasing. It seems logical to me to put Tingle under Tingle games, but w/e. Doesn't make much of a difference.
 

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Bowser Jr. has been more important than the Koopalings lately, and he's got more fanbase (Admittedly, hate as well. But Sakurai doesn't conduct hate polls) than any one of them.

Captain Syrup got on because she's fairly popular. I don't know much about the character, but she's clearly got support.

I think Sakurai will be reluctant to add too many third parties. Plus, Castlevania is owned by Konami, which hurts its chances slightly.
He may be reluctant to do that but he already has therefore breaking the tradition of nintendo only characters. But it would still be super sweet. Think of the specials castlevania characters could have, even more so with Alucard since he can turn into a wolf, mist, and a bat. Not to mention all the magic used in those games.

Oh yeah and of course M-308 would be a swell addition as I've said a bunch of times now. I can dream right?
 

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EDIT: @Kuma

The Zelda/Sheik and PT switches are slow because the Wii has to load the other character. It's not a design-thing. Try transforming when the character you're changing into is in the fight. Or pausing during transformation.
That's sounds like poor programming to me. Melee's transformation for Zelda and Sheik was nowhere as long there.
 

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That's poor programming. Melee's transformation for Zelda and Sheik was nowhere as long there.
Also it takes longer to go from zelda to sheik then it does the other way around. I don't think it was an accident, they just wanted to make her not as cheap, like I said it doesn't affect me, since I play sheik only. The only time it affects me is if I accidentally do it off the edge and I die transforming.
 

.WC.

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That's sounds like poor programming to me. Melee's transformation for Zelda and Sheik was nowhere as long there.
Don't forget the enhanced graphics in Brawl over Melee, and it's on a dual-layered disc. And who knows, maybe it was done that way intentionally.
 

Cyn

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Don't forget the enhanced graphics in Brawl over Melee, and it's on a dual-layered disc. And who knows, maybe it was done that way intentionally.
I think it was done intentionally to help balance her out.
 

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Don't forget the enhanced graphics in Brawl over Melee, and it's on a dual-layered disc. And who knows, maybe it was done that way intentionally.
Don't forget that it's a more powerful console and the assist trophies and whatnot have poor detail in some cases.

I think it was done intentionally to help balance her out.
That doesn't make any sense. You can pick Sheik from the select screen.
 

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@Clownbot

Doc - Because he's easy Sakurai can crap out six clones in the time it takes him to make one character.

C. Syrup - Wario Series outsells Metroid, is very popular, C. Syrup is very popular. Seemed logical to me.

Toon Zleda/Tetra - Eh, that one's there because Sakurai seems to have considered the idea before, and TZ would be a clone, which helps. (There may also be a degree of character bias getting her name up there)

Mewtwo - Why do people always say M2 isn't coming back? I'm going to post an analogy here. You really want to go to the park on Wednesday, but you don't get a chance. You have plenty of free time on the weekend, so you're considering going on Saturday.

Would you decide not to go because you didn't go on Wednesday?

Roy - Talk to Toise. He does the argument justice.

EDIT: @Wizzerd

I put Tingle off by himself because even if his games are mostly unrelated, they're still Tingle games. And his appearances in the main series are decreasing. It seems logical to me to put Tingle under Tingle games, but w/e. Doesn't make much of a difference.
Mewtwo returning for SSB4 is plausible. I'll be happy if they do that, but only if they also retain Lucario.
 
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