[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Paper Mario Master]

You really did? Darn........It's good for some things but now it's more to keep up with.......

 

[황미영]

So, people, has there been any thoughts on a fourth game by Nintendo? Or is this all speculation? D;

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Well it'd be pretty stupid of them not to make one, I mean they like money right?

 

[Clownbot]

I just made SSB4 character discussion thread.

It's going to be locked.

Really, the reason this thread was made was to stop 100+ thread sbeing made about SSB4, which is also why it's a sticky. Maybe we should approach a mod about it first, and even then he probably won't give us the green light.

Until then, this thread is for discussing EVERYTHING about SSB4.

Spoiler

I don't mean to be a downer, or a backseat mod, I just thought I'd put in my two cents.

 

[Tacel]

Yeah, many well thought out posts have been ignored due to multiple shifting subjects.

Also, I agree with Clownbot. We need permission from a mod.

 

[Cyn]

It's going to be locked.

Really, the reason this thread was made was to stop 100+ thread sbeing made about SSB4, which is also why it's a sticky. Maybe we should approach a mod about it first, and even then he probably won't give us the green light.

Until then, this thread is for discussing EVERYTHING about SSB4.

Spoiler

I don't mean to be a downer, or a backseat mod, I just thought I'd put in my two cents.

I agree this thread is about everything ssb4 and I don't need more than 1 thread about, the reason why some people get ignored is because they are interupting an ongoing subject. I myself read everything said and respond to what I think are good ideas if I see one. So lets get back to ssb4.........

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Back to ssb4.........

To start off with that: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8475776&postcount=25625

Discuss/Disagree.

 

[BBQTV]

okay castlevainia an't getting in smash discuss

 

[Clownbot]

Here you go, thirdkoopa.

Snake - This is an iffy one. I personally think that sonic and snake won't be in the next one so they can hype up new third parties, despite my like of them as characters, but with lack of interest from other companies...
Sonic - Read: Snake

Gonna agree with you on Snake, but Sonic got in solely due to fan demand. If he got cut, fans would make a bigger riot than Roy and Mewtwo fans combined.

Melee Veterans:

Mewtwo - Unless they change pokemon trainer, I really don't see this happening on the on-disc roster...But It's not completely out of the question.

Pokemon Trainer? Unless it's an FS or something (which I find VERY unlikely), Mewtwo won't get back in via PT.

Possible Newcomers:
Mario Series: Bowser Jr., Geno, Paper Mario
Reasoning: Rosalina was just a side-character for one, possibly two games. Toad? lol, 2 games and in peach's moveset. Really, If a 5th rep is to happen, It comes down to these 3. Each having flaws, each being suggested, and each one would bring something unique to the table. Only one sakurai and devs have shown any interest into are geno. Oh the on-going debate on this.

By the time SSB4 is released, Rosalina could very likely be the next Bowser Jr. in terms of his popularity. She's slowly receiving more roles in both canonical and spinoff games.

Legend of Zelda Series: Tingle, One Time Character (Or something similar of the sorts, or another cel character to go with TL)

Tingle was in MM and WW, along with having his own subseries of games in Japan and Europe.

Third-Party: Megaman, Travis Touchdown
Reasoning: MM: Do I have to explain? TT:Suda 51 wants him, so it could be another snake case, of course, there's always possibility of other's for the 2 third party slots.

If anyone Snake-esque in terms of mature content gets in, I'd wager Ryu Hayabusa of Ninja Gaiden fame would be a better choice. But hey, it might just be my NG fanboyism talking to me.

Comments in bold, and unquoted text are areas that I agree/can't argue with.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Oh sorry twiz I'd hate to interrupt one of your conversations. Sometimes people should move on and let other people talk. Half of my posts get ignored, honestly I think it's great that there's one just for characters so we don't have
"I WANT RIDLEY" "HE'S TOO BIG" "I WANT THIS STAGE AND THIS MUSIC IN SSB4" "HEY Guys? Anybody listening?"

Not good.

 

[Clownbot]

@BBQ (I didn't edit my last post because I thought this message would be ignored): Why do you say that?

 

[BBQTV]

why come on really do you have to ask?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Here you go, thirdkoopa.



Comments in bold, and unquoted text are areas that I agree/can't argue with.

Sonic - If I remember from interview's right, sakurai said they'd be a two each time thing and all, but considering how played both of these are, If they can get the rights, I'd see no reason not to. It's really all up to If they care enough by that time or so.

Pokemon Trainer I didn't really explain specifically enough, but If that takes place as say, 5th generation representatives, then 1st gen isn't totally "Overrepresented" In that scenario.

Key: By the time. Really, unless she heavily out prioritizes them and sakurai shows interest and whatnot, this isn't going to be likely, considering we're discussing this mainly upon info of what's likely from what we know now.

I don't know much on LoZ, but from what I've heard, If there's a 5th LoZ rep, I'm pretty sure (Especially If there's no option of DLC, Due to his north american hate, I see him better as that, but that's just me) Because aside from the files for a 5th rep, I can't really find anything too viable against this.

Those are just my thoughts. I agree on all asides from rosalina (Or wrote some parts out awfully) Well, and asides from NG.

 

[Clownbot]

why come on really do you have to ask?

I dunno, maybe you could like, answer my question instead of stalling?

 

[Cyn]

okay castlevainia an't getting in smash discuss

I actually ,mentioned this yesterday, wouldn't it be sweet if alucard was playable? They should have someone in the game since it all started on nintendo and was a beloved franchise back then.

 

[BBQTV]

I dunno, maybe you could like, answer my question instead of stalling?

it an't gonna happen their other chars who have a bigger chance infact even ****ing roy metwo and doc stand a better chance

 

[Cyn]

okay castlevainia an't getting in smash discuss

I actually ,mentioned this yesterday, wouldn't it be sweet if alucard was playable? They should have someone in the game since it all started on nintendo and was a beloved franchise back then.

@paper mario
I'm not trying to attack you or anything and I've gotten ignored plenty of times, who cares!!! If you want to talk characters somewhere else then do it. I was simply saying that is why some stuff gets ignored. I personally have read a lot of your ideas and posts you've put here. You have good ideas and they get ignored or overlooked sometimes, just the way it is in these forums sometimes ya know?

Oh well don't take it personally it happens to us all, if its ignored just bring it up later.....

 

[Clownbot]

it an't gonna happen their other chars who have a bigger chance infact even ****ing roy metwo and doc stand a better chance

This immediately makes me facepalm. CastleVania characters may get more credit round here than they deserve, but they certainly have greater chances than the Doctor. Plus, they're pretty popular, at least on these boards they are. As for anywhere else, I guess I can't speak for that.

Still, though, they can get in over DM.

 

[BBQTV]

well i guess anything can get over doc but CastleVania nah brha i just dont see it

 

[Clownbot]

well i guess anything can get over doc but CastleVania nah brha i just dont see it

Well, a lot of people can see it working.

Consider the big picture next time. There aren't many people who could see ROB or Olimar working before they got in Brawl, so hey.

I guess they aren't that likely, though. Outside this thread, I don't see any support for 'em.

 

[BBQTV]

Well, a lot of people can see it working.

Consider the big picture next time. There aren't many people who could see ROB or Olimar working before they got in Brawl, so hey.

I guess they aren't that likely, though. Outside this thread, I don't see any support for 'em.

i would never have thoght of them if it wasnt for this thread

 

[Arcadenik]

With those three contestants and the people who use Peach, I really can't see it happening. He's appeared with a main role in...Super Mario Bros 2, That new mario game coming out...And that's it from what I know (Please; Feel free to correct me on that If I'm missing any) But I suppose he isn't that unlikely. It's just that, I already have three possibilities listed.

Geno: If you really want to argue this, go to FMOI. Really, It's really because of his journal results with brawl, and how those will probably help influence Smash 4 (Oh, and Forest Maze was in the files), And really, in the grand scheme of things, assuming sakurai's working on the next game, his bias can go far ways.

However, If someone else is working on it for whatever reason, then It comes down to the other two I listed.

Rosalina: Mario =/= An RPG Series or so. She's a side character that's been less important than Bowser Jr and only has had in actual role in one game (Possibly two) Really, not that likely...Stands out as a better assist or something.

I play as Peach a lot in Brawl and I still think Toad can be playable. There are many Toads who look like the Toad anyway. They are all called "Toads" so we can have a playable Toad and a Toad who acts as Peach's shield.

Also, you said that Toad should not be playable because he was in only two games. By your logic, Peach and Bowser should not have been playable in Melee since Peach was playable in two games (SMB2 and SMRPG) and Bowser was playable in one game (SMRPG) before Melee. Oh, and it also means Bowser Jr. should not even be playable since he was never playable in any games outside the spin-offs.

People love to live in denial when it comes to Toad. Toad does have plenty of potential. Sakurai mentioned Toad's agility and superhuman strength in Toad's trophies in Melee and Brawl. That tells me Sakurai knows what Toad is capable of. Toad could be a speedy weak lightweight character who carries opponents and crates/barrels like Donkey Kong and have powerful throws. Since Toad's trophies mentioned Super Mario Kart and Super Mario Bros. 2, Sakurai could give Toad specials based on those games.

B - Toad throws a Poison Mushroom to shrink an opponent to his size. This could be useful against bigger and stronger opponents like Donkey Kong, Bowser, Ganondorf, and King Dedede. This move is based on computer-controlled Toad's special item in Super Mario Kart.

Side B - Toad uses a Golden Mushroom to run and tackle into an opponent. This could be useful like Ike's Quick Draw and Pikachu's Skull Bash. It could also help Toad recover from long horizontal distances. This move is based on Toad and Toadette's special item in Mario Kart: Double Dash!!

Up B - Toad could charge till he flashes before he can jump really high like he did in Super Mario Bros. 2. If not this move, then maybe Toad could put on the helmet part of the Propeller Suit from New Super Mario Bros. Wii to spin repeatedly to float in the air like R.O.B.'s Robo Burner. This one would compensate for Toad's poor jumping ability.

Down B - Toad would pull out vegetables and throw them like Peach does, of course. Toad did it in Super Mario Bros. 2.

Final Smash - This is a bit hard to come up with... maybe Sakurai could come up with something that fits Toad. Maybe something crazy like inflating into a large round Toad as if he's affected by the blorbs - from Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story - and push opponents off the stage like Jigglypuff's Puff Up before the Miracle Cure appears and shrinks Toad back to normal.

 

[Pieman0920]

You really should rethink that moveset so as it doesn't have so many coppied moves, Arc. The fact that Toad has Peach's down B, is pretty bad as it is, since he really should try to stay away from any Peach association. :V

Also using items as specials seems a bit lazy too.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Also, you said that Toad should not be playable because he was in only two games. By your logic, Peach and Bowser should not have been playable in Melee since Peach was playable in two games (SMB2 and SMRPG) and Bowser was playable in one game (SMRPG) before Melee. Oh, and it also means Bowser Jr. should not even be playable since he was never playable in any games outside the spin-offs.

I mean by this: Toad outside of those three/two games never played a big role (Once again, feel free to correct me) Whereas Bowser is the villian and Peach is the princess. Sure, It could still happen, and It for sure has more of a likely shot than Rosalina, but really, It was mainly because I already have 3 character's listed, and going beyond one newcomer seeing how from melee to brawl Mario series technically got a minus one, then yeah.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be playable. I'm saying that outside of the three already on, I can't really see much else, but I am underplaying him a bit I'll admit, especially for something that isn't suppose to be ran up by my opinion. I suppose I'll edit that part on mario newcomers of the post real quick.

 

[Arcadenik]

Copied moves? Why do we have to go through this again, Pieman? There are many characters who share similar moves. The moves may look different but they work very similar and even their purposes are too similar.

Zelda's Nayru's Love, Fox's Reflector, Peach's Toad, Pit's Mirror Shield

Link's Hero's Bow, Pit's Palutena's Arrow, Diddy Kong's Peanut Popgun, Zero Suit Samus's Paralyzer

Luigi's Green Missile, Pikachu's Skull Bash, Ike's Quick Draw, Fox's Fox Illusion

Link's Spin Attack, Bowser's Whirling Fortress, Donkey Kong's Spinning Kong, Samus's Screw Attack

Marth's Counter, Ike's Counter, Lucario's Double Team

Samus's Charge Shot, Lucario's Aura Sphere

Mario's F.L.U.D.D., Squirtle's Water Gun

Olimar's Pikmin Chain, Ivysaur's Vine Whip, Zero Suit Samus's Plasma Wire

Sheik's Chain, Zero Suit Samus's Plasma Whip

Zelda/Sheik's Transform, Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon Change

Yoshi's Yoshi Bomb, Kirby's Stone, Bowser's Bowser Bomb

Yoshi's Egg Roll, Jigglypuff's Rollout, Squirtle's Withdraw

Kirby's Final Cutter, Ike's Aether

Toad having copied moves isn't the issue here. Sakurai doesn't mind characters having copied moves. It is you who mind characters having copied moves. Also, it is an opinion to think it is lazy to use items as specials. We have Banana Peels and Screw Attacks as items, you know. I could go as far as to say Snake's down smash and down B are similar to the Motion Sensor Bomb. Also Toad is too closely associated with Peach that it seems to make sense for him to use vegetables, too... I mean, when was the last time Toad and Peach used vegetables? Super Mario Bros. 2.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I am one of the few here that knows a good deal about F-Zero, and that's why Jody makes no sense to me. I thought you of all people didn't want characters to be added in for things like being another girl, or being another villain, and all Jody would be is the F-Zero girl character. She has never been shown fighitng in any way, she has virtually no fans to speak of, and she has very little importance in the main canon (I guess if you want to include the anime, then there's that, but I don't think Smash really takes that into account, and in which case, you have to consider Ryu Suzaku/Rick Wheeler, as well as many other characters who became important in that canon, such as Zoda)

Really, outside of her being a girl, what is your justification for putting her in?

And Paper Mario Master, it seems pretty clear that you never saw the Fire Emblem debates I got into, otherwise you'd know that I've actually argued for Micaiah as having good pottential, while Roy not having any to speak of. In the end though, any new FE lord would probably trump both. Still I put her on that list because it doesn't make sense to not include her in the pottential FE characters area, while including Jody in the F-Zero ones. :V

Hoo boy.

Look, Pieman, I think you're an alright guy. One of my favorite posters here thanks to your persistence in any given argument.

But you're COMPLETELY out of touch with pretty much everything. The key characters and elements in all these series, the fans, Sakurai, everything. It wouldn't be so bad if everytime I had to break it down for you, you didn't just go "no you're wrong!" and try to justify your crazy backwards logic.

It's gotten to the point that everytime you start talking about any series, I end up thinking you've never played any of the games, that your entire experience comes from skimming Wikipedia and GameFAQs.

And that's just plain awful.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Copied moves? Why do we have to go through this again, Pieman? There are many characters who share similar moves. The moves may look different but they work very similar and even their purposes are too similar.

Zelda's Nayru's Love, Fox's Reflector, Peach's Toad, Pit's Mirror Shield

Link's Hero's Bow, Pit's Palutena's Arrow, Diddy Kong's Peanut Popgun, Zero Suit Samus's Paralyzer

Luigi's Green Missile, Pikachu's Skull Bash, Ike's Quick Draw, Fox's Fox Illusion

Link's Spin Attack, Bowser's Whirling Fortress, Donkey Kong's Spinning Kong, Samus's Screw Attack

Marth's Counter, Ike's Counter, Lucario's Double Team

Samus's Charge Shot, Lucario's Aura Sphere

Mario's F.L.U.D.D., Squirtle's Water Gun

Olimar's Pikmin Chain, Ivysaur's Vine Whip, Zero Suit Samus's Plasma Wire

Sheik's Chain, Zero Suit Samus's Plasma Whip

Zelda/Sheik's Transform, Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon Change

Yoshi's Yoshi Bomb, Kirby's Stone, Bowser's Bowser Bomb

Yoshi's Egg Roll, Jigglypuff's Rollout, Squirtle's Withdraw

Kirby's Final Cutter, Ike's Aether

Toad having copied moves isn't the issue here. Sakurai doesn't mind characters having copied moves. It is you who mind characters having copied moves. Also, it is an opinion to think it is lazy to use items as specials. We have Banana Peels and Screw Attacks as items, you know. I could go as far as to say Snake's down smash and down B are similar to the Motion Sensor Bomb. Also Toad is too closely associated with Peach that it seems to make sense for him to use vegetables, too... I mean, when was the last time Toad and Peach used vegetables? Super Mario Bros. 2.

Okay........lets see you were completely wrong in the last sentence in the first paragraph. They do look similar but they have different effects, i.e. the Chain and Plasma Whip. Those have a pretty different effects seeing as how you can move the Chain but the Plasma Whip does quite some damage if you use it right.

Well this goes for whoever said he shouldn't use items for specials too.
Toad is an expert with items y'know. He could use different items for specials. What's lazy is giving him Vegetables, he has so many more things he could use from every game he's been in. Which is just about every Mario game if not all of 'em btw.

His FS could be the Toad Brigade

 

[Cyn]

Okay........lets see you were completely wrong in the last sentence in the first paragraph. They do look similar but they have different effects, i.e. the Chain and Plasma Whip. Those have a pretty different effects seeing as how you can move the Chain but the Plasma Whip does quite some damage if you use it right.

Well this goes for whoever said he shouldn't use items for specials too.
Toad is an expert with items y'know. He could use different items for specials. What's lazy is giving him Vegetables, he has so many more things he could use from every game he's been in. Which is just about every Mario game if not all of 'em btw.

His FS could be the Toad Brigade

Also with toad, to make his pulling out vegetables unique, you can make it to where he pulls out the other things you could pull out of mario bros 2. He could pull out the bottle of potion that can do something, or he can randomly pull out bombs

 

[Arcadenik]

Sheik and Zero Suit Samus's side specials can be used as tether recovery moves, too, even though they are different like you just described.

It is not lazy to give Toad vegetables. It is not like he would be a complete clone or even a semi-clone of Peach anyway... this is the same logic people used to say Mega Man would be a clone of Samus because he would charge his arm cannon like Samus does. If you want to be lazy, you make clones like Falco and Wolf.

Edit: If we want to make Toad's vegetable move different from Peach's vegetable move... why not have Toad pull out bigger vegetables instead? It would demonstrate Toad's superhuman strength as mentioned on his Brawl trophy. Also, we did have giant vegetables in Super Mario Advance.

P.S. Peach does randomly pull out bombs and other items instead of vegetables, too, in Melee and Brawl.

 

[.WC.]

Speculate on Toad's specials. What would they be? I mean recovery, mostly.

you make clones like Falco and Wolf.

Not this bull**** again... They have the same specials. Nobody even uses the final smashes. Who the **** cares? They come from the same game series, of course their special moves are going to be similar. The only truly 'cloned' things are Falco and Fox's Dtilt, Grabs, Usmash and Dsmash. Wolf is mostly original except for specials.

And yet people still have to whine like *****es about this.

 

[Wizzerd]

Not this bull**** again... They have the same specials. Nobody even uses the final smashes. Who the **** cares? They come from the same game series, of course their special moves are going to be similar. The only truly 'cloned' things are Falco and Fox's Dtilt, Grabs, Usmash and Dsmash. Wolf is mostly original except for specials.

And yet people still have to whine like *****es about this.

...Indeed... I do think that Falco and Wolf need new specials and Final Smashes (mostly the Final Smashes, the fad must die), but when you look past the B moves... well, Falco and Wolf actually have rather unique movesets. Maybe not so much for Falco, but I've always found Wolf's A moves to be some of the most original in the game.

 

[n88]

Not sure about Toad. He could get the Starshroom as a recovery, I suppose.

@Arcadenik

Really, Sheik and ZSS's side specials aren't very similar. One's a crappy damage racker, the other is a KO move. They both have tethers, but they're still different.

EDIT: And yes, anyone who thinks Wolf is a clone needs to actually play Wolf. He isn't even close.

 

[Arcadenik]

Speculate on Toad's specials. What would they be? I mean recovery, mostly.



Not this bull**** again... They have the same specials. Nobody even uses the final smashes. Who the **** cares? They come from the same game series, of course their special moves are going to be similar. The only truly 'cloned' things are Falco and Fox's Dtilt, Grabs, Usmash and Dsmash. Wolf is mostly original except for specials.

And yet people still have to whine like *****es about this.

I just suggested Toad's specials and even his possible recovery moves in my other post. Didn't you read it? He could either use the charged jumps from SMB2 or the Propeller Suit from NSMBWii.

Yes, they have the same specials. That's what makes it lazy. If Toad had one special move that is similar to one of Peach's, it is not lazy... if all of his specials are similar to Peach's, then it is lazy.

Different characters with similar moves = not lazy (ex. Bowser's Fire Breath and Charizard's Flamethrower)

Clone characters with same moves = lazy (ex. the Star Fox characters' specials)

 

[Neo Exdeath]

^How different are Fire Breath and Flamethrower, exactly? Also, I'd love to see you design a video game, if you're calling the moves of the Star Fox crew lazy. Sakurai has barely anything to work with, so cut him some slack. Plus, the specials are only 4 moves, and all the reflectors are different, so that makes only 3 similar moves.
3 similar moves= not lazy.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Not sure about Toad. He could get the Starshroom as a recovery, I suppose.

@Arcadenik

Really, Sheik and ZSS's side specials aren't very similar. One's a crappy damage racker, the other is a KO move. They both have tethers, but they're still different.

EDIT: And yes, anyone who thinks Wolf is a clone needs to actually play Wolf. He isn't even close.

See, I disagree there. Ryu and Ken are obviously clones of each other, but they play different. Hell, every ninja in Mortal Kombat were clones, but they played differently also. It is all based on scope. I do not look at frame by frame going "Look, a 2 frame difference. He is not a clone." I look at the move, where it came from and the characters involved.

Wolf is a clone of Fox. Not all his moves exactly the same, but his B moves are directly derived from Fox. All they did was go "Lets take fox, and make him alittle different." Just like how almost all clones are made in fighting games.

^How different are Fire Breath and Flamethrower, exactly? Also, I'd love to see you design a video game, if you're calling the moves of the Star Fox crew lazy. Sakurai has barely anything to work with, so cut him some slack. Plus, the specials are only 4 moves, and all the reflectors are different, so that makes only 3 similar moves.
3 similar moves= not lazy.

The reflectors were lazy. You have reflect at position zero. Reflect that moves from position 0 to whatever and back and then reflector that looks different. It is practically the same move.

 

[.WC.]

Neo is absolutely right.

Propeller Suit from NSMBWii.

Did that game even release yet?

 

[Neo Exdeath]

@WC: Thank you. +10 ego.

@drag0nscythe: Look, only 4 moves are similiar with Wolf and Fox. Only 4 moves don't matter when every other move is different. Will people please stop focusing on the specials?

 

[drag0nscythe]

@WC: Thank you. +10 ego.

@drag0nscythe: Look, only 4 moves are similiar with Wolf and Fox. Only 4 moves don't matter when every other move is different. Will people please stop focusing on the specials?

Specials make the character. The Dojo showed it (Hell, Sakurai had to show of A moves to try and justify the fact that Lucas shares Ness' B moves.)

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Specials make the character. The Dojo showed it (Hell, Sakurai had to show of A moves to try and justify the fact that Lucas shares Ness' B moves.)

Wut? Do you try playing competitively? Specials are definitely not the only thing that makes a character.

 

[.WC.]

Suddenly whether a character is original or not is based contingently on what their special moves are. /bull****

The only character in the game even close to being a 'clone' is Toon Link, but all of his attacks have different effects than Links. He's also much lighter so his aerial game is better.