[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[BG3]

I agree with Paper Mario Master with the Metroid music. Some of the tracks were good, but others like Norfair and Multiplayer theme of MP2 were just either badly composed or just a bad choice IMO. Other pieces like Ridley's theme also seemed badly composed too IMO. There were much better renditions of his theme than the one presented to us in Brawl.

 

[T-major]

someone mentioned a while back that they weren't pleased w/ the sonic music, one way we could solve this is some Shadow the Hedgehog music

Solve this is some Shadow the Hedgehog music

some Shadow the Hedgehog music

no offence, but why would that be a good idea? replacing bad music from the s***ty new games, with just as bad music from a slightly older, slightly s***tier game?

Sonic Unleashed had really great music, and by comparison to the other new sonic games, wasn't that bad of a game. we should use music from that, if anything. doesn't change the factopinion that the music from the 2d games is the best, and should be more present.

 

[BG3]

Agreed. The retro Sonic music easily topples over the newer, crappy band-like songs of it.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Ganon being a clone of Captain Falcon was down right insulting to his character and the Zelda series. you're telling me that the main villain of the Zelda series, one of Nintendo's most important series and most popular video game series in general, isn't important enough to have an original moveset? no. don't try and pull that crap...

sure, Ganon mains mains won't complain because there clone character is intact. but people like me who actually want characters to be true to how they are in the games are getting much more screwed over. you would pretty much be pissed because you now have to get used to using a new character. I would be pissed because a characters moves are completely untrue to said character, which pretty much takes away any meaning of the character being there at all.

Magic and power can easily be applied to a brand new moveset. things like that are very open concept. Stealing moves from a race car driver, isn't...



no. they don't.

People don't seem to understand that 1) Noone fights with any canonical relation to their games. Falcon never fought, Olimar never swung his Pikmin around like clubs, Marth mever did a dragon dance, so on and on
2) Ganondorf has changed so much from game to game, settling on any specific base would be "insulting", as you put it, to fans of old ganon/new ganon/Toon Ganon etc. He weilds Puupets, Tridents, Swords, Dual Swords, Some weird staff thing, so why should we smoosh all of these together, or choose just one when we can use what Ganon already has, Magic and some badassery, all Ganon's had this, and keep the moveset we have.

He plays abosultly nothing like Falcon, and his hardly in any way a clone. He shares two moves that are used the same as Falcons, get the hell over it. People say Fox and Falco are less clones than Ganon and Falcon. If you want to keep Ganon the way he is in the games, how is a complete BAMF Powerhouse not accurate?

P.S@ PMM, It's Ganon not Gannon....Hence the GANNON-BANNED a few pages back.

 

[Zye84]

Abut my tetris stage idea, yay that people actually are responding to it! And, the stages can all have different attributes in how they work. The blocks don't have to be instant kill like in SSE, nor do they have to not do anything at all. Programmers can do whatever they want to each stage to act how they want. And yeah, the I-KO if chars get smushed would be kinda irritating, but look at the Mario Bros. stage. The enemies on that are extremely overpowered to KO you, but it still is fun. And the blocks could start out slow, then speed up during the match to be similar to the MB stage. or, the blocks could just do the damage and knockback similar to the F-Zero racers. There's a lot of possibilities! = D

 

[Zye84]

? Ganon looks almost exactly like Falcon in his movesets..

Up B: exactly the same except slower, with that extra swing thing he does at the end if he catches noone
Side B: it WAS the same, but now it's a bit different, but works nearly the same way and based off of C. Falcon. I like the face grab tho! XD
B: EXACTLY the same, except slower
Down B: EXACTLY the same

(his specials shouldn't be anywhere near the same of another character's that's not in the same universe. that's stupid..They're still cool tho!)

A: very different, and a move I like a lot
Up A: Just a drawn out, magic powered version of Falcon's.
Down A: isn't that exactly the same?
Side A: Still a forward kick, even though not a roundhouse. He could do a lunging magic attack instead

Smash side: EXACTLY the same.
Smash down: EXACTLY the same.
Smash up: EXACTLY the same.

Arial N A: EXACTLY the same.
Arial F A: Very different. kudos.
Arial B A: EXACTLY the same.
Arial U A: EXACTLY the same.
Arial D A: EXACTLY the same with some elec.

......I think that's more than just a couple of the same moves guy. = ] In any case, something that reflects Ganon as himself would work a lot better than just copy paste edit-a-tad from another char. They have no relation (no matter what that series of vids say!) and have no reason to act like one another. All the other clones are RELATED to the original in some way, Nintendo was just lazy with Ganny, but I do thank them for changing him that ity bity bit for brawl. Just because Falcon is faster and is used different accordingly doesn't mean he doesn't have the same moveset that's just tweaked a little! = ]

 

[Cyn]

ok heres a good character suggestion any of you remember the character M-308 from a NES gem called metalstorm? he would make a good addition IMO. that old game was badass

Also Simon Belmont or one of the nes belmont clan would make a pretty cool addition to the cast.

 

[Scott!]

? Ganon looks almost exactly like Falcon in his movesets..

Up B: exactly the same except slower, with that extra swing thing he does at the end if he catches noone
Side B: it WAS the same, but now it's a bit different, but works nearly the same way and based off of C. Falcon. I like the face grab tho! XD
B: EXACTLY the same, except slower
Down B: EXACTLY the same

(his specials shouldn't be anywhere near the same of another character's that's not in the same universe. that's stupid..They're still cool tho!)

A: very different, and a move I like a lot
Up A: Just a drawn out, magic powered version of Falcon's.
Down A: isn't that exactly the same?
Side A: Still a forward kick, even though not a roundhouse. He could do a lunging magic attack instead

Smash side: EXACTLY the same.
Smash down: EXACTLY the same.
Smash up: EXACTLY the same.

Arial N A: EXACTLY the same.
Arial F A: Very different. kudos.
Arial B A: EXACTLY the same.
Arial U A: EXACTLY the same.
Arial D A: EXACTLY the same with some elec.

......I think that's more than just a couple of the same moves guy. = ] In any case, something that reflects Ganon as himself would work a lot better than just copy paste edit-a-tad from another char. They have no relation (no matter what that series of vids say!) and have no reason to act like one another. All the other clones are RELATED to the original in some way, Nintendo was just lazy with Ganny, but I do thank them for changing him that ity bity bit for brawl. Just because Falcon is faster and is used different accordingly doesn't mean he doesn't have the same moveset that's just tweaked a little! = ]

While I agree that Ganon and Falcon have too much in common, you definitely exaggerate some of the similarities. Some of their moves are no closer than two moves would be for two characters of similar type. Examples: Usmash, Utilt, and Dtilt. It's like saying that Marth and Ike have cloned fairs because they both swing their swords in front of them. When you have as many sword-users as Brawl does, some are bound to have moves in common. Same with Falcon and Ganon.

 

[Zye84]

*squint* ooh! I get mixed up with some of their moves from melee to brawl..but, anyways, why is ganon a physical fighter? maybe be more like ness and such. I never really imagined Ganon hiking up his leg that high, itlooks weird for him O_o

 

[Pieman0920]

When it comes to Ganon, another luigifcation is all that's really needed. Change up a couple of his regular moves, and add in a new special or two, and you've pretty much got a non-clone there. In any case, at the time of Melee, I think that Ganon only had about one real appearance, so its actually somewhat logical that he turned out the way he did. Plus, there is the fact that he was last minnute at the time. In all, the only thing I really want to see redone with his moveset is him having the magical rebound ball as one of his specials.

Oh, and in terms of Metroid music, while I agree that Magmoor Caverns music should be in the next game, I'd also like to point out that it, much like the Norfair music, isn't really something for fighting. (Actually, the best Metroid "fighting" music that has yet to be put in, is the Rundas Battle, imho)

 

[Big-Cat]

We need to stop looking at music from a perspective that only battle music fits. MOTHER and Pikmin are examples that non-battle music can work. Besides, wouldn't you just want a song in because you like it, not because it fits?

 

[n88]

IIRC, he didn't use a sword in Ocarina of Time, which is what he's based on.

Wouldn't that make it the Zelda team's fault for giving him a sword, rather than Sakurai's fault for not giving him one? As Pieman said, Ganondorf could just use a few new attacks.

 

[Pieman0920]

We need to stop looking at music from a perspective that only battle music fits. MOTHER and Pikmin are examples that non-battle music can work. Besides, wouldn't you just want a song in because you like it, not because it fits?

Not being battle music actually isn't a problem. Matching up with the stage is what's the problem. For instance, Metroid has a lot of great calming music like Tallon Overworld, and Phendrana Drifts, which wouldn't really work on either of the two Metroid stages that were in Brawl, but could work perfectly well on a Skytown stage. You can fight to whatever you want, but if it doesn't really match the feel of the stage, something is lost. Incidently, songs that aren't really that great seemed to get in due to certain stages being in locations that just fit well. (I guess Norfair could qualify as this, as well as Gritzy Desert) Thus, what Mother music should make the cut should be based around how the stage is set up. (There are exceptons though, such as Humoresque of a Little Dog on New Pork City.)


In any case, I actually don't know what's so special about Mother music.

IIRC, he didn't use a sword in Ocarina of Time, which is what he's based on.

Wouldn't that make it the Zelda team's fault for giving him a sword, rather than Sakurai's fault for not giving him one? As Pieman said, Ganondorf could just use a few new attacks.

I think people kept on thinking he would have a sword in Melee based around that tech demo thingy that had him sword fighting Link with the sword he had in Melee.

To that end, it actually could be the case that the Brawl team actually didn't know Ganondorf was going to actually be in TP at all when they were making it or something. Rumor has it that originally, Zant was the real final villain, but the higher ups decided to throw Ganondorf in there for the sake of getting more fans on board with the game. In addition, I'm fairly sure that when Sheik was mentioned to be based around concept art for her inclusion in TP, Ganondorf was mentioned in the same breath. Thus, it could be that when Ganondorf was originally being put in, they only had the concept art for him, and didn't know that he was actually going to be in the game itself, and thus just had him as a Captain Falcon clone with no sword, since he never used a sword anyways. (Toon Ganondorf doesn't seem to count, or at least only counts as a Toon)

Of course I could be totally wrong here, but its just a guess.

 

[.WC.]

In any case, I actually don't know what's so special about Mother music.

Me neither. People just seem to make it a big ordeal.

 

[Big-Cat]

Not being battle music actually isn't a problem. Matching up with the stage is what's the problem. For instance, Metroid has a lot of great calming music like Tallon Overworld, and Phendrana Drifts, which wouldn't really work on either of the two Metroid stages that were in Brawl, but could work perfectly well on a Skytown stage. You can fight to whatever you want, but if it doesn't really match the feel of the stage, something is lost. Incidently, songs that aren't really that great seemed to get in due to certain stages being in locations that just fit well. (I guess Norfair could qualify as this, as well as Gritzy Desert) Thus, what Mother music should make the cut should be based around how the stage is set up. (There are exceptons though, such as Humoresque of a Little Dog on New Pork City.)

Hopefully, the next game won't limit music to its respective series. Can you imagine Phendera Drifts and Snowman on Summit, Hell Prominence on Norfair, and Saria's Song on Distant Planet?

In any case, I actually don't know what's so special about Mother music.

Psycho indeed. Look Eight Melodies and Pollyanna on Youtube. It'll be the first ones you see. These songs made me a fan of the MOTHER series.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Look up Pokey Means Business, Eight Melodies, Wisdom of the World, Saturn Valley, Misplaced Revenge, NK Cyborg, Pollyanna, New Age Retro Hippie, Bein' Friends, and Wasteful Anthem on Youtube. That's what's so special about Mother Music.

 

[Pieman0920]

Hopefully, the next game won't limit music to its respective series. Can you imagine Phendera Drifts and Snowman on Summit, Hell Prominence on Norfair, and Saria's Song on Distant Planet?

I really don't like that idea though. It just doesn't seem right. (Also I don't see how Saria's Song is particularly fitting on Distant Planet, even if it is music for a forest stage. Distant Planet is just weird like that, given its overly realistic setting, combined with the fact that you're not in a forest, but rather a clearing)

Psycho indeed. Look Eight Melodies and Pollyanna on Youtube. It'll be the first ones you see. These songs made me a fan of the MOTHER series.

I thought both of those have been in the Smash series though. I guess you're reffering to their vocal versions though? (Also, while Pollyanna is good, Eight Melodies is kind of meh)

 

[T-major]

Look up Pokey Means Business, Eight Melodies, Wisdom of the World, Saturn Valley, Misplaced Revenge, NK Cyborg, Pollyanna, New Age Retro Hippie, Bein' Friends, and Wasteful Anthem on Youtube. That's what's so special about Mother Music.

and Hard Rain.

man. Mother has such great bass music

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Well, there is some music that should have been in, I didn't mean that all the music should be fightable, I just meant that they should have the best fight music (have you seen Mario series????) and some calming music I guess (Tallon Overworld). I disagree that Magmoor Caverns isn't that good for fighting, it would've sounded great on Norfair.

The idea about Music being on different stages: What it should do is have an option when you click on a song in My Music (or something like that) you can choose "Move" or maybe "Copy" to different stages and then set the probability level.

 

[n88]

@Pieman

Could be. I wish Zant had been the final boss. Then he might have gained popularity, and Onox would have a chance of being revived (Zant seems to be a reference to Onox, the final boss of Oracle of Seasons, much as Midna is a reference to Veran).

On music: As long as they got Mike's Song and the DK Rap, I'm good to go.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

@Pieman

Could be. I wish Zant had been the final boss. Then he might have gained popularity, and Onox would have a chance of being revived (Zant seems to be a reference to Onox, the final boss of Oracle of Seasons, much as Midna is a reference to Veran).

On music: As long as they got Mike's Song and the DK Rap, I'm good to go.

I didn't want him to be it, he seemed like a joke to me

 

[Pieman0920]

I didn't want him to be it, he seemed like a joke to me

Which is possibly a side effect of him being pushed to the secondary villain spot.

And Magmoor caverns can be fought to, as mostly all musical choices could be fought to, but that doesn't make itself fight music. But yes it would have worked perfectly in Norfair, given that the setting was more than appropriate.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Which is possibly a side effect of him being pushed to the secondary villain spot.

Yeah.......anyways, as I've said before I've been playin Metroid Prime and think there are a lot of good things that could come out of that series. i.e. Music, Stage, Enemies for Adv., and, call me crazy, but I think it MIGHT be kinda cool if Samus could switch between a couple of her classic beams, i.e. Wave and Plasma. Whatdaya think?

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

? Ganon looks almost exactly like Falcon in his movesets..

*List of Ganon's moves*

Appearence and Function are not the same. Ganon uses his moves differently than Falcon, and he is much less a clone then any of the space animals (who, for the record, I don't consider clones) who all play similarly (well fox and falco anyway) and while they ARE different, Ganon an dFalcon nearly complete opposites. Falcon is speed and combo-ish while Ganon is defensive powerhouse, with a few string useful chases and combos (Gereudo chasing FTW!). Looking the same means very little in the playing of the game.

EDIT: @PMM, How do you think that could be implemented, It could be cool to see, but how would it be done?

 

[Paper Mario Master]

EDIT: @PMM, How do you think that could be implemented, It could be cool to see, but how would it be done?

ummmmm.........let's see.........I like her moves.......maybe a taunt........or it COULD take her BV.......but I like the bombs...............................maybe it could be like Marth's B<> combo where you hafta press a direction to get it........OO YEAH! Maybe while shes charging her B, you press somethin for each one.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Haha I like the Switch up the B attack. Just throw in Like a tilt or smash while chardging and fire off a quick round or an alternate beam, could totally trick out her metagame.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Haha I like the Switch up the B attack. Just throw in Like a tilt or smash while chardging and fire off a quick round or an alternate beam, could totally trick out her metagame.

Ya it would be cool,

Wave Beam: Paralyzes for a couple of seconds, otherwise around the same power as Charge Beam, Activation: hold Up on the control stick while charging
Plasma Beam: hmmm, idk, Activation: hold Down on the control stick when charging
Should she have any of the others? Probably not.....

 

[Pieman0920]

Wave beam isn't supposed to paralyze, its supposed to phase through things. Plus, ZSS already has the paralyzer. :V

In all the beam thing seems like a aethetic thing at most. Perhaps you'd be better off trying to implement the beam combos from MP2, and have Samus shooting off mini black holes and mini stars.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Wave beam isn't supposed to paralyze, its supposed to phase through things. Plus, ZSS already has the paralyzer. :V

In all the beam thing seems like a aethetic thing at most. Perhaps you'd be better off trying to implement the beam combos from MP2, and have Samus shooting off mini black holes and mini stars.

Well it paralyzes Space Pirates when fully charged Mini Black Holes and Mini Stars? Do you mean Dark and Light Beam?
The only reason I wanted Wave and Plasma is because They're classic, more people know them (hoping for it) and I'm pretty sure All the Beams in MP1 were in Super Metroid. So that way we're not taking something from one game and throwing it in there.

 

[Big-Cat]

Has anyone noticed that most of us in here tend to act like we know what's likely going to happen because we're basing it on our own rubrics for entry and whatnot?

 

[Clownbot]

Has anyone noticed that most of us in here tend to act like we know what's likely going to happen because we're basing it on our own rubrics for entry and whatnot?

I don't actually see many people in here who act like they know what will be in the game. Most of the intelligent debating side of the thread analyze things to tell what is and isn't more likely, but it's impossible for us to know what's going to be in the next Smash.

Besides, I'm actually starting to appreciate the more lighthearted side of the discussion here.

 

[T-major]

Has anyone noticed that most of us in here tend to act like we know what's likely going to happen because we're basing it on our own rubrics for entry and whatnot?

yeah, but how else are we supposed to do it? just be sceptical of everything? that doesn't offer much discussion material...

guy 1: "I think this character will get in. maybe. depending on if they want him to be, or not. I'm not sure what the outcome will be"

guy 2: "I agree"

:/

 

[Big-Cat]

yeah, but how else are we supposed to do it? just be sceptical of everything? that doesn't offer much discussion material...

guy 1: "I think this character will get in. maybe. depending on if they want him to be, or not. I'm not sure what the outcome will be"

guy 2: "I agree"

:/

I think we should be open minded to new ideas, characters, and what not. We shouldn't go by some rules some debaters have made up like a character should be recent or retro, character must have moveset potential (true to some extent), or what things shouldn't change.

For example, if I recall, I remember some posters here went berserk after the proposal of a super meter, and just recently, over changing Ganondorf's moveset.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

That's because we shouldn't change it >.>

I do like the supermeter idea though, that was a good one

 

[Cyn]

No one seems to have an opinion on my new character idea. M-308 from nes game called metalstorm. Has anyone ever played it. Good moveset possibilities. He was a nintendo only character, and has a cool character design

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Never played it...He looks like a regular robot...which could be done by the more wdely known Custom Robo Series with Ray Mk whatever. Unless, of course, he is different, and if he is, mind filling us in?

 

[Cyn]

Never played it...He looks like a regular robot...which could be done by the more wdely known Custom Robo Series with Ray Mk whatever. Unless, of course, he is different, and if he is, mind filling us in?

He does have some similarities to those but M 308 can alter gravity and encase his self in fire and become a fireball that moves with the gravity and of course he has the arsenal of laser weapons and whatever. Also he has some sort of floating sheild that points in the direction you are walking. You need toplay the game really to get a sense of what he is like. If you are on a computer go to www.thesmartass.info and select the games option on the left, then go to nintendo and find metalstorm, and pick the nescafe emulator (no download needed) when it asks which you want to use. Its a freaking hard game still, but I had fun reminicing on it yesterday lol, it was a well made game just never widely played. I played that game when I was a little kid. I'm 26 now and it still proved be be difficult.

 

[Big-Cat]

That's because we shouldn't change it >.>

I do like the supermeter idea though, that was a good one

As I said before, I think the best thing to happen to Ganondorf is to give him two movesets. A taunt button would swap the styles in and out. Not only do the Ganondorf mainers keep him, but people have a non-clone Ganondorf as well along with a rather technical fighter.

 

[BBQTV]

he plays diffrently from falcon but a so leave him alone but the swap taunt moveset might please both sides

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

As I said before, I think the best thing to happen to Ganondorf is to give him two movesets. A taunt button would swap the styles in and out. Not only do the Ganondorf mainers keep him, but people have a non-clone Ganondorf as well along with a rather technical fighter.

Why a single sword though? Ganon (as ganondorf) has used dual swords twice, a trident, and a single sword once. And as Ganon he used the trident (i believe three more times) and magic. Pre- OoT he never even used a sword. Ganondorf doesn't need a sword because historically, as a character, he hardly ever weilded one. If anything his "second moveset" should be with a trident.