[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[BG3]

Ganondorf NEEDS an overhaul. His whole moveset makes absolutely no sense, and it currently is a pretty bad way to represent Nintendo's best villian(IMO). As far as we know, Ganon has never been in a fist fight, and furthermore, he is the only clone that makes no sense. I mean, Pikachu and Pichu make sense, Link and Toon Link make sense, but Captain Falcon and Ganondorf? Ganondorf has so much moveset potential, and representing him accurately should be the way to go. It's like giving Marth a clonish version of the Falcon Kick. It makes no sense and it doesn't represent the character and the series properly, which is the case right now with Ganondorf.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

In theory it would work most similarly to a lance, but i only want him to use it in one attack, if it all. I would rather Keep Ganon as he is than re-do him entirely.

@Lovely: Except most Ganon mains

Ya I don't want him to have a trident (that was "pig" Gannon after all) I'd rather (as I've said countless times before) have him w/ a couple moves (Neutral B) that involve his magic (example: OoT) like his energy balls. I think it should charge up and auto release, but I'm not sure and I don't want it to be another Shadow Ball.

so BG3 you think his potential come from a sword he had in what 1 game not counting toon? as I've said this^ is all he really needs. They are different if play w/ both of them.

 

[BG3]

@Shino: I think the only reason why people are saying to give Black Shadow a moveset that replicates Ganondorf's current moveset is only because thinking of an original moveset by the fourth installment might be diffucult. Also, remember that F-Zero characters almost never actually fight, they are pretty much always in their F-Zero vehicles, so their movesets are entirely made up. Captain Falcon's moveset was made from scratch, as would Black Shadow's. Giving him Ganondorf's current moveset requires less work, and it would save time. Really, you can give an F-Zero character any type of moveset and it wouldn't really matter, so most probably wouldn't mind Black Shadow having a type of moveset like this. If anything it makes more sense for him to have this moveset since Captain Falcon and him are from the same series.

@Paper Mario Master: Nowhere in my post did I say that Ganondorf needs to have a sword, I only said that his moveset can be so much better with the abilities that he possess' in the LoZ games. I never mentioned anything about his sword.

 

[Finman702]

What's this? People are playing "it doesn't fit" card for Smash Bros of all series? Really now, seeing as we have the LoZ and FE series runnng around there, I don't see how this could really be a complaint. Snake was far more "unfitting" and yet he worked out just fine. Final Fantasy would work out despite any hostlities you feel towards the series, even if t was a character from one of the more futuristic games.

Who showed any hostilities to the series? I didn't see anything like that.

And not fitting is a great way to go through characters that could and couldn't be in Smash. Do you think characters like... Say a Power Ranger, who have games on the GBA and DS, could be in brawl becuase they are Iconic in a way taht everyone knows who they are and they have been on a nintendo system? No, because they don't fit. And I hate to be the one to tell you, but Snake fits a lot more than Cloud would.

Not fitting in with the crowd, in my opinion, is the easiest way to tell what characters could get into Smash.

as for this Square 3rd party thing...

first off, Finman702; saying a character doesn't fit is a worthless argument. Zelda characters and Mario Characters don't fit together. Fire Emblem and Pokemon characters don't fit together. if that wasn't enough, the fact that Snake is there completely destroys your argument, since he doesn't fit with any other characters, yet he still works great and doesn't feel awkward.

that being said, not belonging is a different matter. the only character that (I assume) would be allowed in are ones from Nintendo games, which limits the characters being from games 1-6 (not including spin-off games). my bet would be they would choose a generic class, like Black Mage, OR use a character from FFIII of FFV, and have them change classes back and forth quickly to use moves.

regardless, Megaman deserves a Third Party slot more than any other character.

Fitting and belonging go hand in hand in Smash, so I don't see your point.

P.S. I'm not trying to attack anyone, or any series. I'm stating my opinion on why I don't THINK a Final Fantasy character stands a chance of getting in.

 

[Smash Bro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJLPPcISH1M

1:08 - 1:16 = Whoops! Kinda let that slip...what does that mean?

3:48 - 4:25 = Bottom line: no one knows yet. Mm'kay? Let us dream for now. Are we done nao?

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Who showed any hostilities to the series? I didn't see anything like that.

And not fitting is a great way to go through characters that could and couldn't be in Smash. Do you think characters like... Say a Power Ranger, who have games on the GBA and DS, could be in brawl becuase they are Iconic in a way taht everyone knows who they are and they have been on a nintendo system? No, because they don't fit. And I hate to be the one to tell you, but Snake fits a lot more than Cloud would.

Not fitting in with the crowd, in my opinion, is the easiest way to tell what characters could get into Smash.

1. Power Rangers=TV show won't happen anyways nice argument 2. Who said anything about Cloud? I thought we agreed that the FF character would be Black Mage Chocobo or those other people that were on Nintendo systems. 3. Even if Cloud doesn't get in (i don't support him) how is less fitting than Snake? He's just another buff guy w/ a sword. What's wrong w/ that?

 

[Finman702]

1. Power Rangers=TV show won't happen anyways nice argument 2. Who said anything about Cloud? I thought we agreed that the FF character would be Black Mage Chocobo or those other people that were on Nintendo systems. 3. Even if Cloud doesn't get in (i don't support him) how is less fitting than Snake? He's just another buff guy w/ a sword. What's wrong w/ that?

I just threw out an FF character, IMO, they all have the same chance of 0% so it didn't matter in the sake of argument.

1:08 - 1:16 = Whoops! Kinda let that slip...what does that mean?

Lol.

 

[Big-Cat]

Please don't screw with Ganon's moves. There is no need to Screw Ganon mains out of their character so you can enjoy playing as ganon when you do (which isn't as often as those who main him, like myself).

And please noone pull that Black Shadow Bull. Giving Black Shadow Ganon's current moveset could easily be done with giving a new character the "heavy swordsman" role *coughIkecough*

His power and Magic have been a reacurring role within Ganon's history, while sword(s), tridents, etc. have changed from game to game. The current ganon is the appitomy of Ganon's history.

Personally, I like drag0nsythe's suggestion for Ganondorf to have two movesets. Basically, one of his taunts swaps in and out of the old and new movesets.

 

[Clownbot]

I just threw out an FF character, IMO, they all have the same chance of 0% so it didn't matter in the sake of argument.

That's certainly wrong. A FF character, like, say, Black mage has much better chances than Cloud because he has closer ties with Nintendo.

 

[Finman702]

That's certainly wrong. A FF character, like, say, Black mage has much better chances than Cloud because he has closer ties with Nintendo.

An opinion can't be wrong.

Perhaps you are right, but it's not MY opinion.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Any body wanna start a new discussion instead of arguing over Gannon and FF characters? How 'bout music? I've been playin Metroid Prime again and I like a bunch of those songs. *cough*Magmoor*cough*Caverns*cough*

 

[Finman702]

Any body wanna start a new discussion instead of arguing over Gannon and FF characters? How 'bout music? I've been playin Metroid Prime again and I like a bunch of those songs. *cough*Magmoor*cough*Caverns*cough*

I have actually never played a Metroid game...

To be honest, I was very satisfied with the music in Brawl.

 

[Clownbot]

An opinion can't be wrong.

Perhaps you are right, but it's not MY opinion.

Saying every FF character has 0% chance is not an opinion.

IMO, dogs don't exist.

 

[BBQTV]

u guys be making me LOL yo the music in brawl wuz fine

 

[Finman702]

Saying every FF character has 0% chance is not an opinion.

IMO, dogs don't exist.

That's completely different. There is no way to know for sure the chances of a FF character at this point. We do know for sure dogs exist. See the obvious difference?

Lets just drop this, before it gets out of hand..

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I have actually never played a Metroid game...

To be honest, I was very satisfied with the music in Brawl.

OK ummmm
Metroid:
Magmoor Caverns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQCZIb0fbt8
Tallon Overworld: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWyt2xedSRQ&feature=related
Pirate Fear: Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zmbFSVAOtI&feature=related w/ the beginning of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdebQ-y15Dg&feature=related
Muuuuuuuuch better.

 

[SmashChu]

Saying every FF character has 0% chance is not an opinion.

IMO, dogs don't exist.

No, it's more closely to an opinion.

What you are doing is a statement of fact. You say "Cloud is less likely then Black Mage." This is a statement of fact, but there is no proof or reason to believe it. Because of this, it is inferred by reader to read "I believe Cloud is less likely then Black Mage." This is because there is no reason to think it's anything beyond your own opinion. We know already you think this way. But, you have no reason for thinking this way, and readers have no reason to believe this is a quantifiable judgment (basically, there is no logical reason we should agree or agree to disagree). It's implied to be your opinion, and as far as anyone knows, you are the only one with that opinion.

Saying FF characters have 0% is the same thing. There is no reason why I should say "Yeah, I think your right," or "I think your calculations are off." It's opinion to us, and you phrase it like an opinion.

 

[Finman702]

OK ummmm
Metroid:
Magmoor Caverns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQCZIb0fbt8
Tallon Overworld: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWyt2xedSRQ&feature=related
Pirate Fear: Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zmbFSVAOtI&feature=related w/ the beginning of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdebQ-y15Dg&feature=related
Muuuuuuuuch better.

I listened to a bits and pieces of each.
I kinda like the second one.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I listened to a bits and pieces of each.
I kinda like the second one.

I think the 2nd one is a remix of Brinstar theme, I like it. The first one would've been great on Norfair The 3rd one is a must since it's one of the most heard battle themes in the Prime series.

 

[Jerome]

I was just thinking Plusle and Minun were mabey planned for brawl before Lucario. Cause, I think it took them 3 years to make brawl right? So, while they were making it Diamond and Pearl was made and since generation 4 is the most recent than they stopped making Plusle and Minun and started making Lucario. That mabey explains the small files of Plusle and Minun.
IMO they should have a pokemon from every generation.

 

[Finman702]

I think the 2nd one is a remix of Brinstar theme, I like it. The first one would've been great on Norfair The 3rd one is a must since it's one of the most heard battle themes in the Prime series.

Interesting. I did like beginning of the last one, though the whole song was pretty nice.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Interesting. I did like beginning of the last one, though the whole song was pretty nice.

Glad you agree, some of the Metroid music hard to fight to...... Those three are easier to fight to IMO

 

[Jerome]

Metroid music seems fine to me. Its the Pikmin music that I find hard to fight to.

 

[T-major]

Please don't screw with Ganon's moves. There is no need to Screw Ganon mains out of their character so you can enjoy playing as ganon when you do (which isn't as often as those who main him, like myself).

Ganon being a clone of Captain Falcon was down right insulting to his character and the Zelda series. you're telling me that the main villain of the Zelda series, one of Nintendo's most important series and most popular video game series in general, isn't important enough to have an original moveset? no. don't try and pull that crap...

sure, Ganon mains mains won't complain because there clone character is intact. but people like me who actually want characters to be true to how they are in the games are getting much more screwed over. you would pretty much be pissed because you now have to get used to using a new character. I would be pissed because a characters moves are completely untrue to said character, which pretty much takes away any meaning of the character being there at all.

His power and Magic have been a reacurring role within Ganon's history, while sword(s), tridents, etc. have changed from game to game. The current ganon is the appitomy of Ganon's history.

Magic and power can easily be applied to a brand new moveset. things like that are very open concept. Stealing moves from a race car driver, isn't...

Fitting and belonging go hand in hand in Smash, so I don't see your point.

no. they don't.

Fitting means a character doesn't appear or act awkward when compared to the rest of the setting. eg. a cat doesn't fit being in a dog park. a character with outlandish abilities, fighting along side characters with more or less outlandish abilities, does fit.

Belonging means that a character has done something to warrant there inclusion in the game.

thats how I was looking at it, anyways. you might have had it different, if so we can label this as a misunderstanding. your argument is still bad though.

anyways. I really don't want to start arguing about how a game that doesn't exist should be like. don;t let this post that is now 2 pages ahead of where I originally intended it to be start back up any stuff that apparently has died down already... -__-

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Metroid music seems fine to me. Its the Pikmin music that I find hard to fight to.

I said some but you're right Pikmin music sucked for fighting

 

[Finman702]

thats how I was looking at it, anyways. you might have had it different, if so we can label this as a misunderstanding. your argument is still bad though.

Debating with some people here is impossible
Everyone is too arrogant to admit something.
Maybe I didn't use the best examples, but I stand by my actual "arguement".

And isn't a character "fitting", going by your definition of the word, an opinion? So when you say I have a bad arguement, it's just you don't agree with my opinion? I can live that.

I said some but you're right Pikmin music sucked for fighting

I agree with both of you Pikmin music was boring... I was fine with the metroid songs (that I remember), though.

 

[Clownbot]

Debating with some people here is impossible
Everyone is too arrogant to admit something.

Heh, yeah. I know, sometimes people here can be so overwhelmingly set to their beliefs that their judgment is clouded. Wait.... You weren't talking about me, right? Hehe, yeah, you certainly weren't......

Spoiler

...Were you? D:

I agree with both of you Pikmin music was boring... I was fine with the metroid songs (that I remember), though.

Ah.... I loved World Map. The Metroid songs were certainly better set for fighting, but still, it's nice to have a little variety with the soundtrack to me.

 

[Finman702]

Heh, yeah. I know, sometimes people here can be so overwhelmingly set to their beliefs that their judgment is clouded. Wait.... You weren't talking about me, right? Hehe, yeah, you certainly weren't......

Spoiler

...Were you? D:

I wasn't talking about anyone directly, just something I have noticed in my short time here.

Ah.... I loved World Map. The Metroid songs were certainly better set for fighting, but still, it's nice to have a little variety with the soundtrack to me.

I suppose you're right, it's just not the first song to come to mind when I hear "fighting game". XD
But it's also not a big deal, obviously thing like gameplay come before music in importance (to me anyway, you could say.. imo) *cough* anyway, like I was saying Music is nice but not my top priority.

 

[T-major]

My only real complaint with Brawls music was the Sonic music, and the fact that it was all crap from the new games that no one likes. there should have been stuff like Mushroom Hill Zone, Casino Night Zone... more retro stuff.

also, I would really, REALLY love to hear some Chrono Trigger music in it. a long shot, but the music is just so good.

And isn't a character "fitting", going by your definition of the word, an opinion?

short answer: yes

long answer: theres having an opinion, and then theres having an opinion thats obviously dumb when you look at it with any sort of logic. any FF characters that qualify for getting in, are no different in style or detail than Zelda or Fire Emblem characters. if you make them look cartoony like the original sprite style, I would include pretty much every other character in the game. Black Mage uses magic like Zelda, Ness and/or Lucas, for example. if character from those series fit, than FF character should fit too. the fact that you can look at it any differently just boggles my mind.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I agree with both of you Pikmin music was boring... I was fine with the metroid songs (that I remember), though.

You guys are right none of it was that bad IMO (except Norfair a little bit) but they just didn't have the best ones imo.

 

[Finman702]

My only real complaint with Brawls music was the Sonic music, and the fact that it was all crap from the new games that no one likes. there should have been stuff like Mushroom Hill Zone, Casino Night Zone... more retro stuff.

also, I would really, REALLY love to hear some Chrono Trigger music in it. a long shot, but the music is just so good.

Wasn't Green Hill Zone in brawl? I think there were a few other classic Sonic songs as well. But I see where you're coming from.

short answer: yes

That's what I thought as well.

 

[T-major]

refresh my memory; was the Rundas battle theme in Brawl? I never play on Metroid Stages, soo...

 

[Paper Mario Master]

refresh my memory; was the Rundas battle theme in Brawl? I never play on Metroid Stages, soo...

No it's not there wasn't any Corruption music, i think.

 

[Jerome]

Since were talkin bout music why the hate on Earthbound music? Brawl doesn't have not one song that came from Earthbound. Melee had Fourside music i think its called Because I love You. Why, couldn't Nintendo at least put Fourside's music in New Pork City's? I hope SSB4 doesn't ignore Earthbound the way Brawl did.

 

[T-major]

No it's not there wasn't any Corruption music, i think.

bummer. that battle music was ballin' dawgs.

and Jerome, I agree 10000% on more Earthbound/Mother Music. such great music.

I REALLY want this to be in. this song made me Bass-gasm when I heard it.

 

[Finman702]

Since were talkin bout music why the hate on Earthbound music? Brawl doesn't have not one song that came from Earthbound. Melee had Fourside music i think its called Because I love You. Why, couldn't Nintendo at least put Fourside's music in New Pork City's? I hope SSB4 doesn't ignore Earthbound the way Brawl did.

If I had to chose between MOTHER 3 music and EB, I would chose MOTHER 3. But I like EB's music a lot too.

bummer. that battle music was ballin' dawgs.

and Jerome, I agree 10000% on more Earthbound/Mother Music. such great music.

I REALLY want this to be in. this song made me Bass-gasm when I heard it.

LOL. I don't know if I would have put it like that. But it is a great song.

 

[Jerome]

Glad to see people agree. Nintendo should at least have had one or two songs from Earthbound. I heard that they planned a couple songs from Earthbound but they were all cut.

 

[BG3]

Apparantly, there were many cut Earthbound songs. I agree with Jerome, the series was ignored by a lot.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

There's a whole bunch of songs that should be added (LOZ: Ocarina Songs for the win) but I can't talk now and hafta go, but someone mentioned a while back that they weren't pleased w/ the sonic music, one way we could solve this is some Shadow the Hedgehog music, maybe, well by

 

[Big-Cat]

Apparantly, there were many cut Earthbound songs. I agree with Jerome, the series was ignored by a lot.

The cut songs really ticked me off. We should've had Eight Melodies, the Hippie theme, and music from Earthbound. At the very least, this needs to get in the next Smash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA5bGv6FSQ