[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ToiseOfChoice]

F-Zero is equal to Fire Emblem and Star Fox in terms of popularity and sales. Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow are very popular characters. Every character in all three series has (or will have) a mostly made-up moveset.

How then, do we get Falco, Wolf, Roy (almost in Brawl), and Ike, while Captain Falcon is still all alone?

 

[BG3]

Maybe it is all right for Kirby to have more of some things comparing to Metroid, but the sheer amount of things it has going for it is just ridiculous. It doesn't deserve that much. I hope you're right about Metroid in SSB4...I really hope you're right. Metroid deserves a comeback.

@Toise: Kirby has the most remixed songs, they all seem to be very good and well composed and though out the most. What do I mean by this? Basically, the songs of the Kirby series seem to be spent the most time on as well as being better composed, don't beleive me? Listen to these two songs and tell me Metroid didn't get the shaft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--sRhAa45YI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGrbx7XAPbc

Compare those two songs and tell me which one got more time spent as well as which one seems better composed.

Agree with you on characters somewhat. But Metroid still deserves more than that.

The Ridley's would've been great bosses if they only actually......played like they did in Metroid. He seriously emulates Dyna Blade more than anything else. You can see a total resemblance between their attacks, and half of the moves that he uses Ridley didn't really use. Sakurai either has to learn Metroid or developers of all the series in Smash should sit next to him with equal status, that way all can get represented equally.

I explained stages in my earlier post.

Oh great something else Kirby has going for it, items. Seriously, why is there 5 Kirby items? And why are all of them either really good or just super broken? The only series that should have 5 is proabably Mario and Zelda, Kirby at most should have 2 or 3. This is also another point to bring up. All Kirby items are no doubt the best of the best, because they are all pretty much broken. Dragoon is OHKO(why did it have to be a Kirby item exactly Sakurai?), MM is worse than the Heart Container but it spawns quicker leading some to beleive it's better(compare both of their trophy descriptions), Star Rod is probably one of the best items in the game. It can fire projectiles, it's a strong battering weapon, and can lead to great knockback and damage when thrown. Warp Star is avoidable, but you have to admit it is still one of the better items in the game...surprise surprise. And then we have the super broken superspicy Curry, which enables your opponent to be practically helpless towards you with 0 approach options or anything. Seriously, all you have to do is move, and your opponent can't do anything about it. Probably, better than the Starmen from Mario when you think about it.

 

[Pieman0920]

While I'll agree that the F-Zero series seems to get a bit of the shaft, I don't see why DK was. It was one of the few series with two stages, it got a new character, and got a fairly large amount of trophies. I'll level with you that Diddy should have been in since Melee, but that's a problem with Melee, rather than Brawl. The only thing I can think of where it really got shafted in was in the AT department, since the Mario series stole its AT (along with the Yoshi series AT) but that's fairly minor.

In regards to Ridley, his size doesn't matter. The fact that he can fly doesn't matter. Sakurai's actually stated that Ridley could be possible. Ridley's popularity is second to no other first party character who hasn't gotten in yet. His popularity was even acknowleged by the fact that he got two boss fights instead of one. While there is stiill a chance that he may not get in, there's no real physical limitation to his problem, and there is virtually no problem in terms of fan demand.

Also a funny thing about music. Series that were more focused on older games/GBA games seemed to get more remixes by default, since I guess Sakurai didn't want GBA songs getting in. Kirby for the most part has older music, with a few exceptions, but on the whole needs a fair amount of remixes to get its musical act together. On the other hand, Metroid has a fair deal of perfectly good modern music from the Metroid Prime series, and despite that, still got a butt load of remixes.

And in regards to those two remixes posted, that's just how the original song kind of sounded like. It really can't be helped. Really, the fact that one song is more low key than another doesn't mean that it had less attention paid to it. (Incidently, a lot of people seemed to complain about that remix of Zero Two)

 

[BG3]

All developers of their respective games in Smash should be next to Sakurai in equal status, that way all series can get represented properly with accuracy and content. I think people would enjoy that, now no more bias claims, right? Somebody else also brought up that Sakurai thinks too much on what makes the Kirby series successful instead of on what makes the Smash series successful, I don't really know if this is an accurate assumption, but what do you guys think of it?

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Pieman, you may not know this, but DK is Nintendo's 4th best selling series and it has more viable character options (K. Rool and Dixie) than Metriod, Kirby, or F-Zero.

@ToiseOfChoise: Fire Emblem got two reps because it, like Mother, is mostly Japan-Only. And, as I said before, for Sakurai, Japan>everything.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@BG3: Sounds like a personal problem. If you have a problem with the content itself, you're on your own. But the content is there and it matches up just fine.

For the record, I hate the 02 song but I love NES Norfair. Frigate Orpheon is my favorite stage. I love kung fu Ganon.


@NeoExdeath: I've already done the whole "Sakurai cares about the rest of the world" spiel a bunch of times in this thread before, but here's a list for you:

Legend of Zelda
Metroid
Star Fox
Punch-Out!!
Sonic the Hedgehog
Metal Gear Solid
Mega Man

What do all of these series have in common?



asdjkf thread moves too fast

 

[BG3]

Pieman, you may not know this, but DK is Nintendo's 4th best selling series and it has more viable character options (K. Rool and Dixie) than Metriod, Kirby, or F-Zero.

@ToiseOfChoise: Fire Emblem got two reps because it, like Mother, is mostly Japan-Only. And, as I said before, for Sakurai, Japan>everything.

Unfortunate as that is, that's kind of right, LMAO.

 

[Pieman0920]

How is K.Rool more viable than Ridley? And if Dixie was viable enough, she wouldn't have been deemed unviable. More people want Ridley, and Ridley would be a much more interesting fighter than either of those two characters. (Though I admit, a he would be more difficult to add in)

While I am fully aware that the DK series is the 4th (With the Wii_____ series, shouldn't it be 5th?) best selling franchise, its painfully obvious that most of its sales were generated a couple of console generations ago, and now it has lost its luster. Given this, the DK series lack of characters may be a reflection of its slowed down progress.

Also, the Sakurai having a hard on for Japan thing seems rather...dumb. In Melee we had only two Japan only characters, and in Brawl we used to have two Japan only characters, which is now only one.

 

[n88]

@Pieman

Actually, I think it's because Diddy was the only DK character on the Melee polls. I hate bringing them up constantly, but I believe that the polls are the single factor from which the roster draws most. Admittedly, the Melee polls are no longer worth anything. A nearly ten-year old poll doesn't say much about current popularity. The Brawl polls will probably decide most of SSB4's roster.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

@ToiseOfChiose: I have no idea.

@Pieman: Okay, maybe Ridley is more viable than K. Rool. And since when was Dixie deemed unviable? Also, it doesn't matter about the luster loss. Smash is a huge ad condensed into game form, and if more Dk reps get in, more people get interested and buy the games. Case in point: Fire Emblem.

@N88 2004: Wouldn't the brawl polls decide who would be best forbrawl?

@Everyone who says that Sakurai doesn't have favoritism for japan: If Sakurai doesn't hold favoritism for Japan, then please explain how Mother and Fire Emblem have two reps.

 

[Pieman0920]

@n88

Well Diddy's popularity has always been evident, given that right after his first apperance he got his own game (then he...well lost it...But he got DKR later, and then showed up again in DK64 before all them cameos in the Mario games) It was always pretty clear that he was popular. Still, I can't help but wonder what exactly the Brawl polls results really were, since we only got a few very unreliable snippits from it. I remember one poster theorized that the polls actually did have effect in the form of bosses, trophies (doubt this one) and stickers, so its probably more logical to assume that characters with more stickers are the ones who did better on the polls. (The exception to this being Pokemon)

@Neo Exdeath

I doubt Smash would have the same effect on the DK series as it did the FE series, since DK is already well established overseas, while Fire Emblem is unheard of. And Sakurai said that Dixie was cut for technical reasons, and incidently was the only character from the "forbidden 7" that who non-inclusion was ever addressed. I'll admit though that the reason was likely because she was going to be teamed up with Diddy in a way that mixed both the style of the Ice Clmbers (both characters on the screen) and Zelda/Sheik (switch kongs with Down B) to replicate the feel of DKC2. That's only speculation though as how they would probably have worked.

 

[Wizzerd]

@ToiseOfChiose: I have no idea.

All of them are huge outside of Japan, but they aren't successful in Japan.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

All of them are huge outside of Japan, but they aren't successful in Japan.

Really? Zelda isn't popular in Japan? You learn something new every day. But still, I go back to my "Fire Emblem and Mother" argument.

 

[Jakandsig]

This thread is for the discussion of SSB4, and what your hopes for the game are. Everything from character lists to new features should go in this thread.

Any other threads on the boards regarding this issue will be locked. This thread won't be stickied (for now) but all discussion on this topic should be in here.

I'm new so you may not pay much attention to me, but there isn't going to be a SSB4. They scrapped the series.

 

[BBQTV]

so sakurai doesn't give a **** about us?

 

[n88]

@Neo

The Brawl polls were conducted after the roster was finished. (There were a few last-minute changes, though). So I would say the Melee polls had more of an affect on Brawl's roster.

EDIT: @Jakandsig

How much you wanna bet?

 

[Neo Exdeath]

@Neo

The Brawl polls were conducted after the roster was finished. (There were a few last-minute changes, though). So I would say the Melee polls had more of an affect on Brawl's roster.

Oh, really? Thanks for the info.

@BBQTV: Well, as Wizzerd has proved to me, he apparently does, because of Sonic and the fact that we have 5 Zelda reps. But I still say he cares about Japan more.

@Jakandsig: Link, please.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Really? Zelda isn't popular in Japan? You learn something new every day. But still, I go back to my "Fire Emblem and Mother" argument.

Not necessarily unpopular in Japan, but they're definitely MUCH more popular in the West.

Consider this for Star Fox as a series:
- Doesn't sell amazingly well, especially in Japan
- Only has 5 games, the more recent of which pale in comparison to the first two

And yet we have three characters in Brawl. I wonder, why would that be?

Why is Sonic in Brawl? It's definitely not because of his recent work.

Why is Ike in Brawl? PoR and RD have the worst JP sales in the series (Roy's game alone outsold both of his combined).

The three most popular candidates for SSB4 around here are Little Mac, Ridley, and Mega Man. All three from series that stink in Japan compared to the rest of the world. Despite this, I still would be surprised if any of them didn't make it in.


You know why characters show up? Because people love the characters themselves. You can like King Dedede despite never having played a Kirby game (or even liking the series). You can like Wolf and hate Assault. You can like Lucas even if you'll never play his game legally. You can like Diddy Kong despite only knowing the first DKC game.

Sakurai never made a "which series is your favorite?" poll. I don't know why people always assume the series itself matters here.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

^ Actually, that's what I was about to say after reading your post. I agree, that's why there are the character polls.

Edit: Especially when you said, "You can like Lucas even though you'll never play his game legally". Oh, how true...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

@n88_2004:

I must thank you for finally pointing out to everyone that Brawl's poll could determine some of SSB4's roster. I mean, it's not rocket science, or anything.

@ToiseOfChoice:

This. I agree entirely with your whole statement.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Soooooooo what character can most of us agree on wanting in? (despite hate of clones or likelyness of clones) Just if you want the character or not.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

@ Paper Mario Master

It seems like most of us can agree on Ridley, amirite?

 

[Pieman0920]

I don't think there is a single character everyone wants. It seems like Ridley and Mega Man have the highest amount of supporters though Ridley has some vocal people who disagree, and Mega Man is still third party, so he isn't a shoe in.

As I've said before though, Little Mac, to me, seems like the closest thing to a shoe-in though, given his retro status, his new Wii game, and the prospect that he'll get another game somewhat soon. Still, its not like everyone says they want him in, so I'm not going to say that most of us agree on him.

 

[Finman702]

I agree on Little mac and Ridely. More so on Ridley, and I have yet to hear a GOOD reason why he shouldn't be in.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

^ There's always the "HES 2 BIG" arguments, but drag0nscythe dispatched most of those a while ago.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

My top choices are

Paper Mario (not many people agree cuz of "clone" possibility but as I said in my other post clones don't matter right now)

Ridley (we've just been over this)

Isaac (he should have not been an AT but PC in Brawl but w/e)

Others that I'm not sure if they're my top or not:

Krystal
MegaMan
Bowser Jr.
Black Mage
Skull Kid
Vaati
Toon Gannon (as you can see I like Zelda)
MAYBE Weavel or Sylux
and that's all I can think of right now. Whatdaya think?

 

[Neo Exdeath]

I approve of the above list except Krystal. Enough Star Fox characters is enough.

 

[n88]

n88's Newcomer Power Rankings:
(This is based on currently existing characters (No 5th gen Pokemon, new FE lord, etc.))
(Characters are organized alphabetically within their rank)

A+
Little Mac
Megaman
Ridley

A
Bowser Jr.
Isaac
King K. Rool
Mewtwo
Samurai Goroh
Tingle

A-
Roy
Toad

B+
Captain Syrup
Dixie Kong
Mona
Ray Mk III

B
Black Shadow
Dr. Mario
Krystal
Mach Rider
Pichu
Takamaru

B-
Andy
Kamek
Lip
Paper Mario
Vaati
Sukapon
Waluigi

C+
Captain Rainbow
Masked Man
Toon Zelda/Tetra

C
Funky Kong
Geno
Rosalina
Second Pokemon Trainer
Wolf Link

C-
Black Knight
Lyn
Midna
Plusle and Minun

D+
Daisy
Dark Samus
Skull Kid
Young Link

D
Deoxys
Louie
Slippy Toad

D-
Birdo
Toon Ganondorf

F
Gooey
Mr. Saturn

Open to criticisms

 

[Big-Cat]

I approve of the above list except Krystal. Enough Star Fox characters is enough.

Wolf should be cut then.

My top wanted are:

Tom Nook
Krystal
Ridley
Lil Mac
Megaman
Lip
Kumatora
Captain Syrup
K. Rool
Bowser Jr.
Toad
Isaac
Saki
Midna
Mewtwo
Roy
RAY MKII
Mysterious Black Dude from Metroid Other M
Dan Hibiki

 

[Neo Exdeath]

^ Yes, he should. Anyways, I agree with Kumatora, Lip, Saki, Isaac, Bowser Jr and well, most of your list. The only one I disagree with is Toad because I just don't like him.

Edit: Oh god, I think I'm getting myself into a Ridley flame war and a Krystal flame war simultaneously. *raises flame shied*.

 

[Finman702]

^ There's always the "HES 2 BIG" arguments, but drag0nscythe dispatched most of those a while ago.

Like I said, GOOD reason. =]

But yeah, you get it.

 

[Big-Cat]

^ Yes, he should. Anyways, I agree with Kumatora, Lip, Saki, Isaac, Bowser Jr and well, most of your list. The only one I disagree with is Toad because I just don't like him.

Edit: Oh god, I think I'm getting myself into a Ridley flame war and a Krystal flame war simultaneously. *raises flame shied*.

Wow, I haven't seen a Kumatora supporter in a long time. A while back, I said I would be more than satisfied if she was a Lucas clone, and that hasn't changed.

As for Toad, he's not high priority, but I think he should get in after all these years.

 

[Wizzerd]

Talking about wanted characters?

Bowser Jr.
Paper Mario
K.Rool
Tingle
Ridley
Starfy
Tom Nook
Fifth Generation Pokemon
Black Shadow
New FE Lord
Ray MK III
Little Mac
Isaac/GS3 Protagonist
Mega Man
Simon Belmont

There being no cuts.

n88, your list is great, but Paper Mario being below Dr. Mario, Krystal, Mach Rider, Takamaru and Pichu is highly questionable.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Well, I suppose Toad is important, but I just hate his voice. It is so annoying.

And yeah, I'm a Mother fanboy who will support any Mother character getting in Smash. There aren't many outside starmen.net, though.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Wish list more than speculation

Issac
Black Knight
Dixie Kong (As Diddy's partner)
Balloon Fighter
Lil Mac
K. Rool
Peppy Hare (Yea don't bash, I know he's not getting in)
Skull Kid

Red are the ones I understand are unlikely, but it would be cool to see

 

[Paper Mario Master]

OMG I forgot about Mewtwo I feel stupid

And the A+ A A- and all list, I think agree w/ for the most part.

Black Knight would be cool and seeing as how I'm pretty much an FE fanboy I'd love to see him fight Ike but I'd rather have other characters from FE.

I don't care for Peppy

SK would be awesome, more than that.

 

[kingcobra9]

krystal, krool would be good

i think rob needs his own stage

 

[Neo Exdeath]

^ He does, Mario Bros.

 

[Big-Cat]

There aren't many outside starmen.net, though.

I blame Nintendo.

 

[kingcobra9]

no that has nothing to do with him i mean one that has to do with him or his games