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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Big-Cat

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Unless Sakurai had a special preview to the story of Mother 3, and loved it so much that he had to put Lucas in, I'm pretty sure his pottential inclusion in Melee would have been soley because he was topical, because unless Sakurai somehoe had access to the unreleased 64 game, there's no way he could have really judged the character as worthey/not many fans would actually be asking for him to get in.
Considering that the game was being developed on the N64, and he worked as a second party developer for Nintendo, Sakurai more than likely had access to such information. Anyway, popularity isn't the only factor as I've said before.

I wouldn't really see how exactly they are supposed to be culminations of all the other Links and Zeldas designed for Smash, since they were clearly taken straight from TP. Now if you were to argue that TP's versions of them were supposed to be culminations, then that's another thing, but I kind of doubt that, seeing as their adult versions were only really used in OoT and TP, rather than the other games.

And I don't think Toon Link is going anywhere either, since he's technically still topical, given PH and ST. In fact, out of all of Link's incarnations, that one is the one that's used the most at this point.
If Link and Zelda were strictly their TP incarnations, we would have had very different movesets. Heck, we wouldn't have Sheik in Brawl either. While the Adult Link is used only in OoT and TP, I think he's considered the standard Link. We didn't see Young Link in SSB after all.

Roy actually reinforces the idea that at least FE is governed by being topical, since his game wasn't even released in Japan when Melee came out. Also note that pretty much all of the Pokemon from Gen 1 and 2 were just taken from the last Smash games. (Bar Meowth kind of, since he worked differently there)
Technically, Roy doesn't. If FE was subject to "topical" (I think this is a poor word for how recent something is.), then Roy wouldn't have been the second closest character to making it in Brawl. Heck, he wouldn't have been one of the Seven Deadly Fighters in the first place.

So what if the first two gens of Pokemon were taken from the last smash games? That still doesn't explain third gen Pokemon like Gardevoir.
 

.WC.

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don't Take This The Wrong Way.....

But Have You Played Mario And Luigi Partners In Time?

Baby M&l Would Be A Team And Could Use Hammers, Items, And Other Things In The Game.

Just Sayin Y'know? Don't Want To Start An Argument....


And Don't Forget That Tl Could Also Have Four Sword Moves

Vat sick men sends babies to fight me!?!
 

smashplayer16

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All I ask for is a capture the flag gametype on melee's "Race to the Finish" stage. playable with up to 8 players. If you are reading this Sakurai, don't make Marth look like a friggen female like you did in the last two smashbros. Give him his "shadow dragon" design.
 

n88

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"I think everyone wanted Young Link. It's strange that he wasn't in the game."

fix'd
Um, simply put, no. Young Link could be interesting if he could transform w/masks, but otherwise, Toon Link is more different from normal Link than Young Link, and more popular.
 

Starphoenix

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Sakurai also considers trophies and stickers as representation outside of Pokéballs or Assist Trophies. Playable characters are not the only thing that matters. As others have mentioned at different points before it is about popularity and creativity.

On the Pokémon Deoxys discussion, do not forget that in Sakurai's mind he had his Pokémon roster already planned (including Mewtwo even though he was not completed). Sakurai admitted that Deoxys was a very popular character, obviously not enough to become playable. If Mewtwo does not return in a Smash 4 it is possible Deoxys could become be his successor as far as psychic legendaries go.

As I have said with every Capcom character except Megaman, wait for him to come in once Nintendo vs. Capcom is made.
You say that as though that it is in development, I know why you think that though. A little off-topic but I am extremely excited for TvC and cannot wait for Capcom to reveal the new characters.
 

Big-Cat

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Sakurai also considers trophies and stickers as representation outside of Pokéballs or Assist Trophies. Playable characters are not the only thing that matters. As others have mentioned at different points before it is about popularity and creativity.

On the Pokémon Deoxys discussion, do not forget that in Sakurai's mind he had his Pokémon roster already planned (including Mewtwo even though he was not completed). Sakurai admitted that Deoxys was a very popular character, obviously not enough to become playable. If Mewtwo does not return in a Smash 4 it is possible Deoxys could become be his successor as far as psychic legendaries go.
You have to remember that he asked the public (albeit the Japanese public) who they wanted AFTER he planned his roster minus Sonic. He may have been acknowledging his popularity like he did for Saki in the poll results. You should also take into account that, if I recall correctly, he didn't even know Krystal even existed (yet this is the guy who puts in 3 Starfox characters) which raises the question of how many he took in for popularity (minus Sonic) that weren't around for Melee.

You say that as though that it is in development, I know why you think that though. A little off-topic but I am extremely excited for TvC and cannot wait for Capcom to reveal the new characters.
I'm sorry I came across that way. No one knows if there is one in the works, but I doubt it considering that Capcom has its own fighting games to worry about along with Street Fighter IV Dash in the future.

And, I am excited for TvC, but I don't think I'll get an arcade stick.
 

Starphoenix

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I'm sorry I came across that way. No one knows if there is one in the works, but I doubt it considering that Capcom has its own fighting games to worry about along with Street Fighter IV Dash in the future.

And, I am excited for TvC, but I don't think I'll get an arcade stick.
I definitely think it could happen down the road, although I could see some people trying to compare it to Smash Bros. or complain that it is not. Only problem I could come up with is the roster, being that it could end up extremely similar to Smash, but that is something both Capcom and Nintendo would probably be aware of.

I have no intention of getting a stick either, I will probably use the Classic Controller, my controller of choice for everything.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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On the Pokémon Deoxys discussion, do not forget that in Sakurai's mind he had his Pokémon roster already planned (including Mewtwo even though he was not completed). Sakurai admitted that Deoxys was a very popular character, obviously not enough to become playable. If Mewtwo does not return in a Smash 4 it is possible Deoxys could become be his successor as far as psychic legendaries go.
I'm not sure why Sakurai would go out of his way to add any currently existing Pokemon (or FE Lord) when Mewtwo (and Roy) are easily the most popular and relevant out of the entire selection.


A lot of people get this notion that Sakurai wants to cycle in "flavor of the month" characters for these two series (Mother would too, if it were as prolific). Considering Jigglypuff is still around long after her 15 minutes of fame, considering Lucas didn't end up replacing Ness after all, considering Mewtwo and Roy were supposed to be in Brawl anyway, it doesn't seem that such a cycle exists.

As far as I can tell, it seems he just wants to add a new character each Smash game on top of all the existing characters (minus Pichu). I know a lot of you are gonna cry foul over "too many reps!" and such, but the fact that the entire "reps and slots and deservingness" theory doesn't match up AT ALL with Melee and Brawl says tough cheese.
 

LSDX

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Um, simply put, no. Young Link could be interesting if he could transform w/masks, but otherwise, Toon Link is more different from normal Link than Young Link, and more popular.
That's pretty much what I was referring to, the whole YL mask idea. Plausible? Yes. Possible? Yes. Sakurai Want? Do not want.
 

flyinfilipino

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I know a lot of you are gonna cry foul over "too many reps!" and such, but the fact that the entire "reps and slots and deservingness" theory doesn't match up AT ALL with Melee and Brawl says tough cheese.
Yes! Agreed very much. I don't like when people try to assign patterns to things that aren't necessarily based on patterns.
 

n88

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@Pokemon Junk

Why would Deoxys replace Mewtwo? While Mewtwo was only playable in Melee, he's been planned for every installment. Sakurai clearly likes the character, and he's got to be the most popular choice for a new candidate.

@McSnapple
Ah. Well, most of the support for YL comes from people who think he'd have a cool moveset. Which anyone can have. Seriously, someone in MYM made a moveset for a Mushroom. Anything can have a moveset.
 

Starphoenix

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Never mind, I need to learn to read stuff in context. Yes I do not think every iteration of Pokémon or Fire Emblem need to have a playable character.
 

Pieman0920

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Considering that the game was being developed on the N64, and he worked as a second party developer for Nintendo, Sakurai more than likely had access to such information. Anyway, popularity isn't the only factor as I've said before.
Maybe not, but in the case of Lucas back then, it would have only been for marketing reasons. If a character is unknown, doesn't have any established history, and much of their moves would have to be borrowed from another character, then its pretty safe to assume that the only reason they would be included is for the sake of being a advertisement. Since Earthbound 64 didn't come out in time/at all really, Lucas didn't make the cut for Melee, even though he was intendded to.


If Link and Zelda were strictly their TP incarnations, we would have had very different movesets. Heck, we wouldn't have Sheik in Brawl either. While the Adult Link is used only in OoT and TP, I think he's considered the standard Link. We didn't see Young Link in SSB after all.
Why's that? TP Link technically shared more moves with Brawl's version of Link than OoT Link did with Melee's Link. Why would he have a very different moveset? And while I would say that Zelda's moveset doesn't really reflect her TP incarnation, in reality it doesn't reflect any of her incarnations, since she has never used any of those abilities. (Technically Sheik's the same there too) And Adult Link is only the most popular, and likely iconic Link, but he isn't the standard Link, since that's not how Link is used the majority of the time.


Technically, Roy doesn't. If FE was subject to "topical" (I think this is a poor word for how recent something is.), then Roy wouldn't have been the second closest character to making it in Brawl. Heck, he wouldn't have been one of the Seven Deadly Fighters in the first place.
That doesn't make sense though. While its debatable that his popularity almost got him into Brawl, that still doesn't change the fact that his initial inclusion was simply a advertisement. (Nor does it change the fact that Roy didn't get into Brawl) While topicality isnt something that has to be completely followed (for instance Jiggs isn't topcal yet she gets in) it does seem like a major factor for incoming new characters, and it does seem to effect pre-existing characters to a degree, such as the LoZ characters who change from game to game, yet are pretty much the same.

So what if the first two gens of Pokemon were taken from the last smash games? That still doesn't explain third gen Pokemon like Gardevoir.
Why would that need to explain Gen 3 Pokes? Melee never represented them, and they were still somewhat topical. For mostly all of the preestablished series, the content was taken from either the very begining of their series, or from the games that came out between Melee and Brawl. R/S/E came out between the two games, and thus got represented in Brawl, even if they weren't the newest thing, but Gen 1 and Gen 2 were covered before and thus got punked a bit.

Pluuus, I think its interesting to note that mostly all of the Gen 4 Pokemon were ones that were advertised before the games actually came out, indicating that Sakurai's team probably didn't have much access to the plans for Gen 4. The only Pokemon who I think really breaks this rule (aka wasn't just a trophy that could have been put in last minnute, or some hovering thing in the background of Pokemon Stadium 2) was Cresselia, who doesn't really make sense.
 

smashplayer16

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n88

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stages that can be used for CTF gametype.

SSBM's "The underground maze": http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/file/516492/18269

SSBM's "Race to the Finish":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFqk5eO1SoM

SSBM's "Mushroom Kingdom" first stage in adventure mode

Plus original stages that can be added.Now add up to 8 players in multiplayer, and I'd buy the game just for that. Add online to that and that and it will be a success.
Actually, I hope that SSB4 has no form of online whatsoever. Mainly because the Wi-Fi is the reason we got Brawl Physics instead of Melee physics (Which I like better). However, no online seems unlikely.
 

smashplayer16

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Actually, I hope that SSB4 has no form of online whatsoever. Mainly because the Wi-Fi is the reason we got Brawl Physics instead of Melee physics (Which I like better). However, no online seems unlikely.
They better make it work, we in the 21st centurey. They should be able to pull it off with their next gen system.
 

lordvaati

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While the Adult Link is used only in OoT and TP, I think he's considered the standard Link. We didn't see Young Link in SSB after all.
acutually, not really.

Smash 64- Classic Link, since the concept art has him designed like in LTTP

Melee- OOT Link, MM Y.Link

Brawl- TP Link, WW T. Link
 

Paper Mario Master

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Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm Toon Link for the win?
Honestly imo his games are some of the best, WW was closest to OoT the first time for me, Four Swords GBA and FSA were fun for Multi-Play, I have a friend that likes MC pretty well, we both like PH but I didn't like it in comparison to WW or most of the other Zeldas since LttP and ST looks wierd and cool at the same time.

Just give TL a Fire Rod and a Hammer of some sort and an Four Sword FS and he be even more different than he is now, I know that his moves are pretty close but he has a different feel
 

Smash Bro

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Why does Sakurai keep coming up in conversation? He obviously isn't going to be working on the next Smash. So the future of this series is up to Nintendo and their decision on who to run the project.

And because Sakurai says he isn't working on another Smash Bros. game, I once again see the possibility of having a Brawl Shop Channel. Who needs to tear their hair out to create a roster when there's some perfectly good DLC? ... Then again, with the Wii's AWESOME Wi-Fi, and Brawl already being a dual-layered disc, that could (will) lead to waayy too much memory and a lot of issues. Then again again, the next Smash game is obviously not going to be on the Wii, so perhaps--and that's a HUGE perhaps--Nintendo's console at the time will have enough power to fuel a Brawl Shop Channel. I really want to see this happen, no matter how unlikely it is. I would wait ridiculous amounts of hours just waiting for a download from there. It would also solve our problems as to "which character is most topical" and "this character deserves it more than this one".
Even though Lucario kicks nutsack... (Ya that's a compliment to the great Rukario).

/rockband-train-of-thought
 

Clownbot

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Why does Sakurai keep coming up in conversation? He obviously isn't going to be working on the next Smash. So the future of this series is up to Nintendo and their decision on who to run the project.
How do you figure he won't do it? I believe he said he wouldn't mind doing another game; he just has another project (AKA Project Sora), and once that's out of the way, SSB4 is inevitable.
 

n88

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Why does Sakurai keep coming up in conversation? He obviously isn't going to be working on the next Smash. So the future of this series is up to Nintendo and their decision on who to run the project.
:confused:
Is this statement based on anything you've heard from Nintendo, or are you just making it up? Last I heard, Sakurai was completely open to making a new Smash game. Plus, he originally intended for Melee to be the last, and directed Brawl anyway. I would say there is an extremely high (Above 90%) chance of Sakurai directing SSB4.
 

Wizzerd

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Smash Bro said:
Why does Sakurai keep coming up in conversation? He obviously isn't going to be working on the next Smash. So the future of this series is up to Nintendo and their decision on who to run the project.
Of course it's far from garunteed, but I doubt Sakurai will give up one of his two biggest series (the other being Kirby, of course). And... "obviously"? Do you have any reasoning for this?
 

Pieman0920

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And because Sakurai says he isn't working on another Smash Bros. game, I once again see the possibility of having a Brawl Shop Channel. Who needs to tear their hair out to create a roster when there's some perfectly good DLC? ... Then again, with the Wii's AWESOME Wi-Fi, and Brawl already being a dual-layered disc, that could (will) lead to waayy too much memory and a lot of issues. Then again again, the next Smash game is obviously not going to be on the Wii, so perhaps--and that's a HUGE perhaps--Nintendo's console at the time will have enough power to fuel a Brawl Shop Channel. I really want to see this happen, no matter how unlikely it is. I would wait ridiculous amounts of hours just waiting for a download from there. It would also solve our problems as to "which character is most topical" and "this character deserves it more than this one".
Even though Lucario kicks nutsack... (Ya that's a compliment to the great Rukario).

/rockband-train-of-thought

I'd really be against this. Really, we don't need this game to become a DLC-fest. Given the title you gave it, I can only assume that the channel (which probably wouldn't be called Brawl Shop Channel due to it probably not being Brawl) will make it required for you to pay for the new characters that you download. Now while there are certain instances where DLC is fine, most companies so far have been using it in bad ways, like locking things already on the disk, and making you pay for it. Seeing as Nintendo isn't the purest of companies out there, I sort of fear that they may pull of this type of tactic if given the chance.
 

Big-Cat

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I actually suggested that a few months back, but now that I think about it, it would be broken since everyone would focus on nothing but SD KOs.
If we didn't have this one thing in the way, I think everyone would be ok for a few characters having this.

I'm thinking anti-air tethers are something that may work better for Smash.
 

Sucumbio

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well yeah, but like, ... the grab release would have to be timed automatically if in mid-air to prevent SD spam. like, if you grab mid air except for bowser (i think he should retire from the cast actually DOH) you have a choice of throwing them down which your opponent can air dodge out of for recovery sake after X frames; you do nothing and air stall the pair of you which is just a basic mid air interrupt which could be used over air space for a gimp against poor recovery characters, and yeah, I dunno how many characters would even have this ability, but I was thinking it as a new Game tech, so ... everyone.
Except bowser :p
 

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There was an ocarina in A Link to the Past (but it was called a flute) and in Link's Awakening. I think Link in the first two Smash games were based on both ALTTP Link and OOT Link. Hyrule Castle as a stage supports this theory. It was not an important location in OOT but it was very important in ALTTP. It just happened to resemble the OOT's version. Same with Temple in Melee. It was clearly based on the Palaces in Zelda II but it is simply called Temple because the main dungeons in OOT and MM are typically called Temples.
 

LSDX

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There was an ocarina in A Link to the Past (but it was called a flute) and in Link's Awakening. I think Link in the first two Smash games were based on both ALTTP Link and OOT Link. Hyrule Castle as a stage supports this theory. It was not an important location in OOT but it was very important in ALTTP. It just happened to resemble the OOT's version. Same with Temple in Melee. It was clearly based on the Palaces in Zelda II but it is simply called Temple because the main dungeons in OOT and MM are typically called Temples.
ALTTP Link had brown hair

OOT Link had blonde hair.

Smash 64 Link had blonde hair.

Yay for logic <3
 

Starphoenix

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ALTTP Link had brown hair

OOT Link had blonde hair.

Smash 64 Link had blonde hair.

Yay for logic <3
Wait didn't LTTP Link have pink hair?! O.o




Either way SSB64 Link is based of of OoT Link obviously.
 

LSDX

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Wait didn't LTTP Link have pink hair?! O.o




Either way SSB64 Link is based of of OoT Link obviously.
The whole pink hair in ALTTP was just a graphical error due to an excess of colorations for sprites; t's pretty common knowledge by now.
 

Starphoenix

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The whole pink hair in ALTTP was just a graphical error due to an excess of colorations for sprites; t's pretty common knowledge by now.
It was a joke, hence the smiley. O.o

Although I personally think the pink hair looked rather good on Link. Would have been rather cool to have seen a Twilight Princess style pink haired Link.

Maybe next time Sakurai could give us hair color options!
 
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