[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Paper Mario Master]

I still won't work for some reason
try this...or not...
Well it won't work I've tried everything

 

[BBQTV]

amazing...

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

i can't see... >.>

 

[BBQTV]

what are we looking at here

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Here's your last post Pieman. You should save the link when you read this so you don't have to dig it up later.


At this point I refuse to argue with you over characterization and personality. I can assume only two things:

1. You really, truly, honest to god can't perceive any difference between these characters, in which case I'm seriously worried for your personal life.
2. You're lying, all of your FE knowledge (and possibly even Smash) comes from wikis, GameFAQs, maybe TV Tropes on a good day.

I've never met anyone, in person or on the internet who didn't see Marth as a fancy-pants, Roy as hot blooded, and Ike as Mr. Serious. SmashChu is wondering if you've even played Melee or Brawl. And considering you assume Marth and Roy have the same personality (or worse, intelligence level) in their own games, well... yeah I hope you're just BSing me. But I'm not going to discuss it any further, even if you respond to this paragraph directly.

My main argument is that Fire Emblem shouldn't keep on having the same type of character. Its not a want of lances, axes, mages, and what not, its a diswant of another sword users from Fire Emblem, or at least the same type of sword user (Lyn probably wouldn't fight that way...but Lyn's probably not getting in anyways, so disregard this) The series should be expanded, instead of having three characters who are virtually the same, outside some fairly insignificant differences. Quite frankly, I'd be fine if the FE series only stays with Ike and Marth, and doesn't get a new character, since that will still be better than overloading the franchise with more of the same.

This is the problem. You want to see more cosmetic variety in characters regardless of whether or not people actually want said characters. Never mind that all three have completely different playstyles, but you can't tell, can you?

Take Sigurd for instance. You know why he has no chance? It's not his weapon or hair. It's because no one cares about him. You know why Hector, Ephraim, and Micaiah probably won't get in, despite not using swords? Because they don't have nearly as big of a fan base as Marth, Roy, and Ike do.


The next couple of (HUGE) paragraphs are you trying to prove that Roy isn't that popular. All you've proven is that you have no familiarity with the average Smash fan, and you're certainly missing the entire point of Smash (to give the fans what they want instead of what they MIGHT want). I'm not going to try to explain this to you any more because it's not something I can do in a single post. The only advice I can give you is to look in places outside of SmashBoards and GameFAQs. And look up a thing called the "expanded audience."

Also, funny that you mention Geno, I remember reading the old threads with you (at least I think it was you) and Fatmanonice going at it for a long time in 2007. I couldn't trust any of those "____ for Brawl!" threads to measure popularity after I saw how big the Ashley (of all people) thread grew. Almost everyone on this site was (and still is!) completely out of touch with the average fan.


At this point, I'd much rather see you make a roster or list of potential characters to include in the next game (with reasoning, of course) than your response on why you personally don't like Roy.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

what are we looking at here

It's suppossed to be a picture of Mario Master's Massive character Roster, not majorly important, but i am curious as to what it looks like exactly.

 

[BBQTV]

oh but why wont it display

 

[BBQTV]

Here's a custom roster I made a while back:

i like this

 

[Paper Mario Master]

any ideas on how to display it not copy/paste open with internet copy URL w/ link or image option

how'd you get that to work???

Here's what the link is when I open it w/ Fire Fox

file:///F:/Paper%20Mario/Super%20Smash%20Bros.%204/SSB4%20Roster.bmp

 

[Clownbot]

No offense, BBQ, but that post was a long time ago.... In addition to having quite a few flaws.

 

[BBQTV]

what flaws

 

[Clownbot]

what flaws

Petey, Kamek, Geno, Medli/Makar, Darbus, Deoxys, Mewtwo, Knuckle Joe, Crash, Spyro, Gray Fox, Knuckles, and Dr. Wright probably won't get in, and even then there are a few questionable ones.

I apologize for not providing reasoning, I'm just trying to keep things concise, and at the rate I type, coupled with my laziness, it would take ages for me to explain the problems all these characters have.

 

[StinkomanFan]

Why are Crash and Spyro in the roster?
EDIT:Stupid ninjas

 

[BBQTV]

Petey, Kamek, Geno, Medli/Makar, Darbus, Deoxys, Mewtwo, Knuckle Joe, Crash, Spyro, Gray Fox, Knuckles, and Dr. Wright probably won't get in, and even then there are a few questionable ones.

I apologize for not providing reasoning, I'm just trying to keep things concise, and at the rate I type, coupled with my laziness, it would take ages for me to explain the problems all these characters have.

Why are Crash and Spyro in the roster?
EDIT:Stupid ninjas

the reason this exists is for LOLZ not much else but yeah i dont think the characters will ever make it

 

[eaglejedi117]

New characters:
Mama luigi
Gay luigi
The king
Cdi- Zelda
WeeGee

Serious:
Midna & Wolf Link
Shadow Mario/ bowser Jr.
Shadow
Rayman
Deoxys

 

[BBQTV]

youtube poop where theirs smoke [anyone who loves poop will finish this sentence]

 

[n88]

youtube poop where theirs smoke [anyone who loves poop will finish this sentence]

Please at least pretend to be on topic.

What do people think about adding another attack button. Personally, I don't like the concept, and I think it's very unlikely, (And I would cry if it happened) but I've heard the idea kicked around.

 

[Wizzerd]

Midna & Wolf Link
Shadow Mario/ bowser Jr.
Shadow
Rayman
Deoxys

Midna and Wolf Link are probably not going to appear in a Zelda game ever again. If we get a Zelda newcomer, it would be Tingle (no homophobia please).

Bowser Jr. is likely (though people tend to overinflate his chances), but Shadow Mario hasn't appeared for a while, Bowser Jr. showing up without him.

I haven't played the recent Sonics, but a bunch of people who have strongly dislike Shadow. He could still get in, but we probably won't be getting another Sonic character anyway.

Rayman's roles are mostly on other systems, with Nintendo focusing on the Rabbids.

Deoxys is one of my favorite Pokemon, but honestly his chances were for Brawl. He's far behind Mewtwo and a Pokemon from the likely fifth generation for a fifth Pokemon slot.

What do people think about adding another attack button. Personally, I don't like the concept, and I think it's very unlikely, (And I would cry if it happened) but I've heard the idea kicked around.

So another category of attacks, like specials or smashes? I don't see why not.

 

[n88]

So another category of attacks, like specials or smashes? I don't see why not.

The problem I have with it is that I'm not sure how the new attacks would be different.

Standards - Simple, Boring
Specials (Usually) - Dynamic, Intersting

So the new attack button would basically be reduced to Specials2 or Standards2.

 

[Starphoenix]

I saw Kamek on the roster above, let me discuss him real quick.

Kamek is an individual Magikoopa who had a minor enemy role in Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island and a role in Yoshi's Island DS. The Yoshi series itself is not very big, granted it has more titles than say Mother or F-Zero, yet the drawing power of said series is very small. The character itself has very little dimension to him in contrast to his other persona in the Mario and Luigi series whose personality is somewhat clearer due to the obvious help of the RPG's dialogue. I am not going to bother with moveset potential since that argument is only based off of each individuals perception, same with whether a character "deserves" a slot on the roster.

Instead the question comes down to if he has enough of a fan base within the general audience or if he is intriguing enough to catch Sakurai's eye. Chances are if the series is small the less likely characters from that series will be to appear, this is not the general rule of thumb since obviously Sakurai has exerted his "directors authority" in the case of certain franchises. Other Mario spin-off franchises such as Warioware have fared better than the Yoshi series as well, when was the last time you have ever seen Nintendo really push a Yoshi game?

Kamek himself is not very significant of a character even in the Yoshi series, one only has to look to the Yoshi trophy section of Brawl to uncover this. Only one other character besides Yoshi has any type of fame in said series and that is Baby Mario.

All in all, I would write him off of any list unless for some bizarre reason the Yoshi series gets some sort of reboot and surpasses Ocarina of Time the series will remain pretty much dead.

 

[majora_787]

unless for some bizarre reason the Yoshi series gets some sort of reboot and surpasses Ocarina of Time the series will remain pretty much dead.

I think this means the yoshi series will be unrepped forever. Probably.

There is no such thing as a game that surpasses Ocarina of Time. ESPECIALLY if it's a Yoshi game, sadly to say. But Metroid Prime 3 came very close.

Speaking of which, I wonder of Metroid: Other M will open up more metroid character possibilities?

 

[Starphoenix]

I think this means the yoshi series will be unrepped forever. Probably.

There is no such thing as a game that surpasses Ocarina of Time. ESPECIALLY if it's a Yoshi game, sadly to say. But Metroid Prime 3 came very close.

Speaking of which, I wonder of Metroid: Other M will open up more metroid character possibilities?

That statement was more of exaggerated sarcasm than anything. lol

I think Other M very well could, it depends on how well drawn out these characters are. Three people have been shown in the E3 trailer so far, Adam Malkovich, the "Mysterious Black Dude" as dubbed via the internet, and the blonde girl at the end of the trailer who has some sort of relation to Adam. Only one person looks to have any type of combat ability at all, but again let us wait and see what Team Ninja and Nintendo can accomplish.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Midna & Wolf Link

May have a chance. I know some people will cut their chances down in a heart beat because they beleive this character will never return. Forget giving them a chance, they know the future and will express it.

I like the character choice and hope for it.

Shadow Mario/ bowser Jr.

Fine by me.

Shadow

Rayman

Deoxys

While I like the ideas, I do not think they will make it playable. Deoxys missed his chance. Maybe if a remake of Gen 3 happens before the next smash (but I doubt that for a while.)

 

[Gfred]

I

All in all, I would write him off of any list unless for some bizarre reason the Yoshi series gets some sort of reboot and surpasses Ocarina of Time the series will remain pretty much dead.

Just thought I'd pop in this gigantic thread and say that the Yoshi series isn't really dead. It has like, 10 games. Yoshi's Island DS also was only released like 2 years ago and it sold nearly 3 million. Not that it really matters since I doubt Yoshi is ever getting another character, but still.

Since I'm here, and because I know just how much everyone loves character lists, here's one of the characters I think will be added.

Little Mac
Starfy
Isaac
Toad
Bowser Jr
Krystal
King K. Rool
Saki
New FE Lord
5th Gen/ 6th Gen Pokemon (Hey, Brawl skipped 3rd, the next game might skip the 5th)
Maybe an Advance Wars rep
Mewtwo (Really depends on what they do with Lucario)
Mega Man (If there was any justice it would be Phoenix Wright )
Bomberman

I'd love to be wrong about Junior and Krystal though. Also, Luigi needs a Mr. L alt.

 

[Pieman0920]

I'll get to you Toise when I have time to concentrate~

Anyways, on the Yoshi Series, its true that its not dead, but its also true that it seems to have a aversion to new characters. Kamek himself is a generic magikoopa (Kamek is the Japanese name for Magikoopa after all.) And the only other major character in the series is Baby Mario, and I'm guessing we'll have Paper Mario before that.

Outside of that, the only valid character with a connection to Yoshi is Birdo, but s/he's not actually part of the Yoshi series as it is.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'll get to you Toise when I have time to concentrate~

Anyways, on the Yoshi Series, its true that its not dead, but its also true that it seems to have a aversion to new characters. Kamek himself is a generic magikoopa (Kamek is the Japanese name for Magikoopa after all.) And the only other major character in the series is Baby Mario, and I'm guessing we'll have Paper Mario before that.

Outside of that, the only valid character with a connection to Yoshi is Birdo, but s/he's not actually part of the Yoshi series as it is.

I know the series is not dead, it is just partly dead. Meaning Nintendo does not show a real urgency to get the next Yoshi game out nor is anyone asking them to, it will just happen.

How is Birdo connected to Yoshi? I understand the whole reptile egg thing, but not sure how they relate since Yoshi was never in SMB2US. Unless you are drawing your conclusion from Mario Party. Not starting an argument, it is simply a question.

P.S: I would not bother responding to Toise, he isn't going to continue the discussion even if you spend three hours countering his last paragraph.

 

[n88]

@Starphoenix

Yoshi and Birdo were paired in MK: Double Dash, they are the two corresponding captains in Super Sluggers, and there are some special cutscenes if Yoshi and Birdo are on a team together in Strikers Charged. Also, you credit Kamek as a minor villain in Yoshi's Island. ??? Just because he isn't a boss doesn't mean he's minor. He's kinda the primary antagonist of the game.

@Metroid stuff
Metroid doesn't need more reps. Ridley needs more rep.

 

[Pieman0920]

I know the series is not dead, it is just partly dead. Meaning Nintendo does not show a real urgency to get the next Yoshi game out nor is anyone asking them to, it will just happen.

How is Birdo connected to Yoshi? I understand the whole reptile egg thing, but not sure how they relate since Yoshi was never in SMB2US. Unless you are drawing your conclusion from Mario Party. Not starting an argument, it is simply a question.

P.S: I would not bother responding to Toise, he isn't going to continue the discussion even if you spend three hours countering his last paragraph.

n88 said a good deal of the stuff about Birdo and Yoshi already, though I'd like to also point out Mario Tennis for the N64, which was the first time I recall them being paired up. Still, while they seem to have a connection in the spin off games, they are still not in the same series, so its kind of pointless speculating there.

Don't care if Toise won't respond. I'm going to finish it up.

 

[Arcadenik]

@Metroid stuff
Metroid doesn't need more reps. Ridley needs more rep.

What the hell is this? Ridley does not need "more rep". He does not have his own spin-off franchise. He is part of the Metroid franchise and its already got plenty of representation.

 

[Pieman0920]

What the hell is this? Ridley does not need "more rep". He does not have his own spin-off franchise. He is part of the Metroid franchise and its already got plenty of representation.

Me thinks it was a joke. :embarrass

 

[rockem7]

I'm pretty sure people will be arguing over Ridley even after SSB4 comes out...>.>
And about Yoshi, I think the most likely rep would be Birdo. Even if Yoshi gets another game and Birdo isn't in it, Kamek would only pass Birdo if his part was relatively huge.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm pretty sure people will be arguing over Ridley even after SSB4 comes out...>.>
And about Yoshi, I think the most likely rep would be Birdo. Even if Yoshi gets another game and Birdo isn't in it, Kamek would only pass Birdo if his part was relatively huge.

Birdo would probably fall under the Mario series, seeing as how "it" has never appeared in a Yoshi game.

 

[n88]

What the hell is this? Ridley does not need "more rep". He does not have his own spin-off franchise. He is part of the Metroid franchise and its already got plenty of representation.

I just don't think that Metroid needs another rep if it's not going to be Ridley. It wouldn't hurt to give Metroid another rep (Metroid is Nintendo's #6 series repped by characters in Smash, by sales.), but no-one is even close to Ridley's level of importance or fan demand. Adding another non-Ridley character from Metroid would be the same as syaing, "Sorry, but we're not adding Ridley and we never will. So here's some random, unimportant guy from Other M." And before you start rattling off how well-represented Metroid is in Brawl, please remember that if Ridley is added as a playable character, Metroid is going to lose both of its bosses. Plus. if SSB4 actually adds more content, like it should, then all series will get more stuff in some form or another.

Long story short, Ridley is the only viable Metroid rep that should be added. Not somebody from Other M. We don't need a Metroid rep just for the sake of another Metroid rep.

*Exasperated sigh after accidentally starting Ridley fight*

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Don't care if Toise won't respond. I'm going to finish it up.

Hey now, I'm not stopping the debate entirely, just the parts about characterization. Plus I wanna see your justification for an already existing non-Roy Lord to be brought in (you know I agree with the possibility of a new guy or just Marth and Ike, right?). Or better yet, a full roster/list of candidates.

We don't need a Metroid rep just for the sake of another Metroid rep.

This, a thousand times over. People don't want "more Metroid," they very specifically want Ridley. I can only think of two newcomers that people want as badly as him (Mac and Mega Man).

 

[Pieman0920]

That's what I thought from skimming over the post earlier, since the discussion is kind of pointless given that all lords are pretty generic personality wise, so its not really a issue.

Anyways, the Metroid rep for the sake of a Metroid rep annoys me too, since if its not Ridley, they really shouldn't add in anyone, since no one else really stacks up. (For right now anyways. If he has the right role in Other M, Adam could have pottential) That's what bugs me the most when someone doesn't include Ridley, but instead just puts in Sylux or something, like its supposed to make up for it in some way.

 

[drag0nscythe]

People want Ridley more then just wanting another playable Metroid rep. That is really just a reason to justify his inclusion more.

Same can be said for F-zero. Cap Falcon is enough, we do not need Black Shadow. Hell, I think that of FE and Mario have enough reps. We do not need any more FE reps, Marth and Ike are enough. Mario already has the big four. Why bother with small fry to "Just to fill a quota."

Really. Mario does not need more reps.
Neither does Zelda if you truly think about it.

Lets look at this.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Best_selling_Nintendo_games
ranchises

1. Mario (200 million)
2. Pokémon (175 million)
3. The Legend of Zelda (52 million)
4. Donkey Kong (48 million)
5. Kirby (30 million)
6. Brain Age (23.81 million)
7. Nintendogs (18.67 million)
8. Smash Bros. (16.84 million)
9. Metroid (13 million)
10. Mario Kart (12 million in North America)
11. Animal Crossing (7 million)
12. Mario Party (5 million in US)

By this, Starfox is way overrepped. If Metroid can only have one rep, SF should have only 1. DK needs another rep also. Mother is Overrepped. F-zero is fine where it is.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

People want Ridley more then just wanting another playable Metroid rep. That is really just a reason to justify his inclusion more.

Same can be said for F-zero. Cap Falcon is enough, we do not need Black Shadow. Hell, I think that of FE and Mario have enough reps. We do not need any more FE reps, Marth and Ike are enough. Mario already has the big four. Why bother with small fry to "Just to fill a quota."

Really. Mario does not need more reps.
Neither does Zelda if you truly think about it.

Lets look at this.


By this, Starfox is way overrepped. If Metroid can only have one rep, SF should have only 1. DK needs another rep also.

You're right there doesn't need to be any more reps for anything there doesn't even need to be an SSB4, but people want it and Nintendo wants more money, so there will probably be another smash and more characters that most people will like so they'll but the game and Nintendo gets richer.

 

[drag0nscythe]

You're right there doesn't need to be any more reps for anything there doesn't even need to be an SSB4, but people want it and Nintendo wants more money, so there will probably be another smash and more characters that most people will like so they'll but the game and Nintendo gets richer.

So Ridley should be a playable rep then.
End of story.

Onto another topic.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

So Ridley should be a playable rep then.
End of story.

Onto another topic.

What topic Modes? Stages? Next *insert series here* rep?

 

[drag0nscythe]

What topic Modes? Stages? Next *insert series here* rep?

Lets move onto modes.

We have special brawl, but we need more options. One that affects game gravity, wind speed on the stage and other options like that.

Then I can play super floaty mode with Meta-Knight.