[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Mario the Jumpman]

In my opinion, the fact that there are so few ideal candidates for playable NES/Famicom/FDS reps helps to narrow down who will show up next as retro reps.

It helps that some of those games are cult classics, though.

That said, I'm not sure if Sheriff (from an obscure arcade game of the same name) would be a good candidate...

How about Stanley the Bug-Guy from Donkey Kong 3?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

How about Stanley the Bug-Guy from Donkey Kong 3?

Of course! I forgot about him! He's less likely to become a clone, since he has some bug spray.

Er, wouldn't he get classified as a DK rep?

Edit: By the way, it's Bugman.

 

[n88]

Possible WTF candidates -

Mach Rider
Diskun
Sukapon
Duck Hunt Dog (I would never predict nor add DHD into the game myself, but I don't know how Sakurai feels about him, and I don't feel like fighting with Arcadenik)
Balloon Fighter

Those are all the ones I could think of.
Browsing that list, Mach Rider seems like the best choice to me.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Possible WTF candidates -

Mach Rider
Diskun
Sukapon
Duck Hunt Dog (I would never predict nor add DHD into the game myself, but I don't know how Sakurai feels about him, and I don't feel like fighting with Arcadenik)
Balloon Fighter

Those are all the ones I could think of.
Browsing that list, Mach Rider seems like the best choice to me.

He sure does, since his game apparently has some things in common with F-Zero (future setting, high speeds, aggressive racing). I should note that the Vs. version of that game shows that he's got some sort of gun (could be a laser blaster, for all I know).

Sakurai did say that Balloon Fighter could not be implemented because his balloons would be easy to burst (see: Tingle in Melee).

 

[~AltIArs_chOsEn1~]

a ssb4 would be cool

new characters

mario series-paper mario (clone? nah)
zelda-toon ganandorf (swords! yeah baby!)
DK-funky kong
fire emblem-lyn
f-zero-samurai goroh?
sonic the hedgehog-shadow the hedgehog!!!!
golden sun-isaac
MGS-gray fox?
star fox-krystall...or panther coroso...OR BOTH!

plus make online play better

oh yeah, screw jigglypuff!!!

 

[Arcadenik]

At least Tingle have a lot more moveset potential than Balloon Fighter does... so I'm sure Tingle would be able to fight well without his balloon. Tingle is perfect for SSB4. He can double as a 5th Zelda character and as a Balloon Fighter (since the generic ones and Alice don't do much without balloons).

Mach Rider? Unless he fights on the motorcycle the whole time like Sakurai thought of Excitebike, he's not bizarre enough to be a WTF character. Mr. Game & Watch was a WTF character because he was a 2D monochromic stick figure with random attacks. R.O.B. was a WTF character because he was a NES peripheral IRL who fights by doing what he knows best - spinning his arms. If anything, Mach Rider would be better off as a normal character like Ice Climbers and Pit are.

 

[codfish92]

oh yeah, screw jigglypuff!!!

READ THE AVATAR!!!!!

Spoiler

actually, i don't care much for jigglypuff either

 

[Big-Cat]

I thought Fawful would be a great WTF fighter, but I heard that WTF fighters have to be both very retro and very obscure to qualify, and Fawful's neither.

Madre de Dios......

This is getting ridiculous. There is no OFFICIAL rule stating that there must be a WTF character and that there are qualifications to it.

This character prediction is going to far. We're having people in here going by their own standards, trying to conform others to it, and being incredibly presumptive on who should get in.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

At least Tingle have a lot more moveset potential than Balloon Fighter does... so I'm sure Tingle would be able to fight well without his balloon. Tingle is perfect for SSB4. He can double as a 5th Zelda character and as a Balloon Fighter (since the generic ones and Alice don't do much without balloons).

Mach Rider? Unless he fights on the motorcycle the whole time like Sakurai thought of Excitebike, he's not bizarre enough to be a WTF character. Mr. Game & Watch was a WTF character because he was a 2D monochromic stick figure with random attacks. R.O.B. was a WTF character because he was a NES peripheral IRL who fights by doing what he knows best - spinning his arms. If anything, Mach Rider would be better off as a normal character like Ice Climbers and Pit are.

Well, you're right. Tingle would work well enough as a character...even though the majority of the US hates him.

I do agree that Mach Rider works better as a normal character (a retro one, of course).

Now, in terms of true WTF characters, one cannot go any further than Diskun (a console mascot logo, of all things). He's the best choice we've got, even if he would work better as a projectile than anything else. Ok, he probably wouldn't work, but still, nothing else comes to mind...

 

[Wizzerd]

Mach Rider? Unless he fights on the motorcycle the whole time like Sakurai thought of Excitebike, he's not bizarre enough to be a WTF character. Mr. Game & Watch was a WTF character because he was a 2D monochromic stick figure with random attacks. R.O.B. was a WTF character because he was a NES peripheral IRL who fights by doing what he knows best - spinning his arms. If anything, Mach Rider would be better off as a normal character like Ice Climbers and Pit are.

Mach Rider can totally stay on his bike to fight... but he doesn't seem to have anything special to put him over all the other potential NES WTF characters like Bubbles or Balloon Fighter, so I'd say he isn't particularly likely.

 

[codfish92]

Madre de Dios......

This is getting ridiculous. There is no OFFICIAL rule stating that there must be a WTF character and that there are qualifications to it.

This character prediction is going to far. We're having people in here going by their own standards, trying to conform others to it, and being incredibly presumptive on who should get in.

I agree. WTF is up with people always saying there has to be a WTF character?

Spoiler

just use splash attack

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Mach Rider can totally stay on his bike to fight... but he doesn't seem to have anything special to put him over all the other potential NES WTF characters like Bubbles or Balloon Fighter, so I'd say he isn't particularly likely.

Well, there is one thing...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b0/Vs._Mach_Rider.png

The higher-priority NES characters (not necessarily WTF) will most certainly come before he does, so his moment of glory can afford to wait. Besides, I heard that Sakurai said in an interview (during the time of Melee) that he is his favorite video game character.

That said, Bubbles and Balloon Fighter were turned down. Balloon Fighter, for reasons that I have already explained.

As for Bubbles, it's because Sakurai believes that she can't fight.

...

Oh dear. That last one sounds rather offensive.

Anyway, for the moment, that about leaves Sukapon, Takamaru, Duck Hunt Dog and a few others that are less likely.

 

[Hero.]

In Melee every character had a homestage, and every stage was used (except for the past stages and Big Blue), even if the stage wasn't from the characters series (Young Link = Jungle Japes, Ganondorf = Brinstar Depths, etc.). In Brawl, that really isn't evident, and even though home stages were never really that great anyway, I kind of miss just the idea of them.

I think if you play as a character on their homestage, a special victory theme plays if you win or some other thing that doesn't unbalance gameplay happens.

Yeah or maybe theres a higher chance of having the audience cheer for you.

 

[codfish92]

Yeah or maybe theres a higher chance of having the audience cheer for you.

i hate audience cheering. i wish in the next SSB there is an option to remove it. Plus they never shut up. EVER

 

[Arcadenik]

KirbyWorshipper... think about it... why would Sakurai say Bubbles can't fight? If you have played the quirky NES game Clu Clu Land (an excellent game IMO), Bubbles cannot stop moving and she needs to use the poles just to turn around. That would not be very practical for a viable Smash fighter to do.

Right now, I think the higher-priority NES characters are Little Mac and possibly Takamaru. I heard that there would be a mode in Samurai Warriors 3 on the Wii called Mysterious Murasame Castle.

WTF characters... they could be considered joke characters, right? Jigglypuff was added as one in SSB. Pichu was added as one in Melee but Mr. Game & Watch was certainly very WTF-ish. In Brawl, we got R.O.B. I don't doubt that there would be at least one joke (WTF) character in SSB4 and I'm hoping the Duck Hunt Dog is it. There's just something awesome about a hunting dog who fights by sending out ducks only for the hunter (from the fourth wall) to shoot them down. Its almost like playing Duck Hunt, the game itself, to fight.

 

[Lord Viper]

i hate audience cheering. i wish in the next SSB there is an option to remove it. Plus they never shut up. EVER

☆ Say whaaa-- The audience their respects to the character that owns, or did something epic, why do you not want that? =( ☆

☆ At least the other Smash Bros audience wasn't very noisy like in SSB64 ☆

 

[Pieman0920]

As I said before, the "wtf" character should be Doshin the giant. People focus too much on things from the NES days or earlier, and don't think of the weird stuff Nintendo released in later generations.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

KirbyWorshipper... think about it... why would Sakurai say Bubbles can't fight? If you have played the quirky NES game Clu Clu Land (an excellent game IMO), Bubbles cannot stop moving and she needs to use the poles just to turn around. That would not be very practical for a viable Smash fighter to do.

Right now, I think the higher-priority NES characters are Little Mac and possibly Takamaru. I heard that there would be a mode in Samurai Warriors 3 on the Wii called Mysterious Murasame Castle.

WTF characters... they could be considered joke characters, right? Jigglypuff was added as one in SSB. Pichu was added as one in Melee but Mr. Game & Watch was certainly very WTF-ish. In Brawl, we got R.O.B. I don't doubt that there would be at least one joke (WTF) character in SSB4 and I'm hoping the Duck Hunt Dog is it. There's just something awesome about a hunting dog who fights by sending out ducks only for the hunter (from the fourth wall) to shoot them down. Its almost like playing Duck Hunt, the game itself, to fight.

Concerning Bubbles...Well, that would certainly explain a fair bit. I don't know if the pole-swinging could be incorporated into a moveset somehow, so who knows? At the least there are a couple of references to Clu Clu Land in Brawl.

Little Mac and Takamaru will indeed have a higher priority in the NES department (even though Mac isn't exactly retro at the moment). It helps that Nazo No Murasamejo was Sakurai's favorite childhood game. Samurai Warriors 3 will have...er, what? That came out of left field.

WTF characters aren't necessarily jokes, given how R.O.B. has decent fighting skills. That said, I'm starting to think DHD would be an interesting addition, what with the possibility of using ducks in his attacks (as projectiles) and biting people. The hunter's crosshair should be reserved for the Final Smash, though.

As I said before, the "wtf" character should be Doshin the giant. People focus too much on things from the NES days or earlier, and don't think of the weird stuff Nintendo released in later generations.

He's mostly a pacifist, though. Unless you're thinking about Devil Doshin, that is...

Also, you forgot Chibi-Robo.

Edit: I'll be going to bed now. Sweet dreams, everybody.

 

[Big-Cat]

I agree. WTF is up with people always saying there has to be a WTF character?

Spoiler

just use splash attack

Unfortunately, that post isn't going to change anything. I've said stuff like that a few times and it gets swallowed in the looping discussions.

 

[Pieman0920]

Doshin may be a pacifist, but so is Peach, right? In any case, he could transform between the two, though I don't think there's that much he can do. (The one thing that sticks out that I know of is his ability to raise and lower the ground.)

 

[Arcadenik]

Peach may be a pacifist but she has proven herself to be very capable whenever necessary as shown in:

- Super Mario Bros. 2
- Super Mario RPG
- Super Princess Peach
- Super Paper Mario

And besides Rid... I mean, Doshin is too big. He's called Doshin the Giant for a reason, you know.

 

[Rhubarbo]

I thought of two new game play mechanics that could be implemented into Smash 4.

1) Assist Trophies: Like in Marvel vs Capcom, you can call in an Assist Trophy to perform an attack on a foe. At the start of a match, you can choose three assist characters, each one assigned to one direction on the d-pad. You can use one assist per a stock. Should you KO a foe, or get KOed yourself, you're assist count gets rejuvenated.

2) Super Smash Attacks: A Super Smash Attack is a move that can be performed once a stock. The damage these moves deal isn't astronomically large, but the catch is that landing one when the foe is on the right part of the stage will practically guarantee a KO.

For example, let's say Pikachu's Super Smash was Thunder Wave, a move that would paralyze/ immobilize the foe for an extensively long period of time (let's say two seconds). This move would deal 0% damage, but would be an instant KO if used while comboing the foe far below the stage.

If you score a KO using a Super Smash, you get the chance to use it again on your foe when they respawn. If you use a Super Smash but don't manage to score a KO, you are disallowed from using it until you are KOed and spawn again.

 

[Arcadenik]

^^^ So, what happens with the taunts?

 

[Rhubarbo]

^^^ So, what happens with the taunts?

You can assign them to an unused shield, an unused jump, or the c-stick. If they are assigned to a button, a directional input determines which taunt you'll use.

 

[codfish92]

☆ Say whaaa-- The audience their respects to the character that owns, or did something epic, why do you not want that? =( ☆

play with 4 D3's, 10 stock, and then tell me thats not annoying.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

I thought of two new game play mechanics that could be implemented into Smash 4.

1) Assist Trophies: Like in Marvel vs Capcom, you can call in an Assist Trophy to perform an attack on a foe. At the start of a match, you can choose three assist characters, each one assigned to one direction on the d-pad. You can use one assist per a stock. Should you KO a foe, or get KOed yourself, you're assist count gets rejuvenated.

2) Super Smash Attacks: A Super Smash Attack is a move that can be performed once a stock. The damage these moves deal isn't astronomically large

Yeah, i thought of using a Meter for something i would call "Special smash"
(A charged B move gained by a meter)
3 Check points on the meter. Using a Full meter= final smash.
Instead of flamethrower, Charizard gets 1 Fire blast per check point on the "Special meter". The meter fills by landing "B" attacks and receiving them. But drains slowly for every "B" attack you miss.

 

[Jerome]

What they should change when they make SSB4...

1. Have more Characters (at least 55)
2. Have more Stages (EVERY character gets a NEW stage)
3. No Masterpieces (Unless you can save and there is no time limit)
4. No Chronicles (That was a waste of space and they could have used that space for more characters or music.)
5. Even more music. (I'm still pissed at what they did to Mother 2's music.)
6. No Tripping
7. Bring Back the Bonus fights (Where you get scored by the style of how you fight.)
8. Better Stage Builder (This REALLY needs work...)
9. Better Wifi (Show rankings, add more options on wifi and NO LAG!)

Anyone agree with this?

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

1. Have more Characters (at least 55)
2. Have more Stages (EVERY character gets a NEW stage)
3. No Masterpieces (Unless you can save and there is no time limit)
4. No Chronicles (That was a waste of space and they could have used that space for more characters or music.)
5. Even more music. (I'm still pissed at what they did to Mother 2's music.)
6. No Tripping
7. Bring Back the Bonus fights (Where you get scored by the style of how you fight.)
8. Better Stage Builder (This REALLY needs work...)
9. Better Wifi (Show rankings, add more options on wifi and NO LAG!)

Anyone agree with this?

The chronicle and masterpieces take up almost no space.
Those weren't even full roms.

 

[BG3]

The masterpieces took up an unneccesary amount of space, you could tell it used up quite a decent amount of it just by looking at the loading times for the mode. It would've been so much better if each demo allowed you to save so you could always continue wherever you left off.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

The masterpieces took up an unneccesary amount of space, you could tell it used up quite a decent amount of it just by looking at the loading times for the mode. It would've been so much better if each demo allowed you to save so you could always continue wherever you left off.

170MB isn't alot of space on a dual layered disc (Though if they didn't shove in whole games, it would be like 6MB).
And save states thrown in there defeats the purpose of a 2-5 minute demo.

 

[kr3wman]

I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that all the demos were in fact the full games.

By glitching in the OoT Young Link one you could go up to the Master Sword I think.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Doshin may be a pacifist, but so is Peach, right? In any case, he could transform between the two, though I don't think there's that much he can do. (The one thing that sticks out that I know of is his ability to raise and lower the ground.)

Well, you do strike a good point with that.

I hope that the casual players won't mind that he's buck-naked (there's no detail, but still)!

Peach may be a pacifist but she has proven herself to be very capable whenever necessary as shown in:

- Super Mario Bros. 2
- Super Mario RPG
- Super Princess Peach
- Super Paper Mario

And besides Rid... I mean, Doshin is too big. He's called Doshin the Giant for a reason, you know.

I should remind you that Doshin shrinks whenever he accidently makes grave mistakes (e.g. stepping on people). His size could be adjusted for SSB4, so that he'd at least be slightly taller than the other heavyweights, but close to human size.

Also, one should keep in mind that Olimar is canonically the size of a penny, yet his size has been adjusted for combat.

 

[DekuBoy]

For WTF I nominate Alexandra Roivas from Eternal Darkness!

Also I think as Doshin takes damage he will slowly turn into devil-Doshin.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

For WTF I nominate Alexandra Roivas from Eternal Darkness!

She's more obscure than completely out-of-left-field strange, though.

 

[Pieman0920]

1. Have more Characters (at least 55)

Probably won't be that many.

2. Have more Stages (EVERY character gets a NEW stage)

While I support the notion that everyone gets a "home stage" like they did in Melee, the amount of stages shouldn't directly mirror the character count. Otherwise we would get like four-five LoZ stages, and only one for Yoshi.

3. No Masterpieces (Unless you can save and there is no time limit)

The saving/no time limit will never happen with Nintendo, so its hopeless to dream like that.

4. No Chronicles (That was a waste of space and they could have used that space for more characters or music.)

Hahaha. Do you really think the Chronicle's data could have been substituted for a character? Heck, it probably couldn't be substitued for music. The Chronicle is harmless, and it doesn't matter if it shows up again....though I do like that one idea that was said about including box art....perhaps that idea and the chronicle could be combined....

5. Even more music. (I'm still pissed at what they did to Mother 2's music.)
6. No Tripping
7. Bring Back the Bonus fights (Where you get scored by the style of how you fight.)
8. Better Stage Builder (This REALLY needs work...)
9. Better Wifi (Show rankings, add more options on wifi and NO LAG!)

No real comments here, though I don't see what the big deal wiith Earthbound music is. Perhaps it wasn't really focused on, since the game seemed to try to stray away from porting in songs from portable games, so all of Mother's music had to be pretty much re-composed. To that end, the Mother series didn't do that bad, because when you look at something like say Fire Emblem, you'll notice that it only has 6 newly composed songs, while Mother has six as well.

 

[comboking]

Ranking could be bad because Hackers would just be on top by changing their score.

 

[n88]

Probably won't be that many.

I'm not so sure. I brought this up a few pages ago, but I don't think a large roster w/a lot of clones is out of the question.

Melee Last-Minute add-in: Clones
Brawl Last-Minute add-in: Sonic

I suspect that most of the Forbidden Seven would have been added as last-minute clones, but the time was used on Sonic instead. So if there isn't a last-minute character added in to SSB4, I would expect a high amount of characters with a bunch of clones.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Concerning the characters, I'd expect at least 40+. Up until now, the roster in each successive game has increased by about 10 or so. Sakurai seems to be more reasonable in increasing the roster this way, unlike other fighting game franchises (Dragon Ball Z Budoukai Tenkaichi comes to mind).

The Chronicle is harmless, and it doesn't matter if it shows up again....though I do like that one idea that was said about including box art....perhaps that idea and the chronicle could be combined....

Now there's a thought.

On a related note, it seemed a little strange to me that the Chronicle in Brawl listed some Hamtaro games...

 

[n88]

Concerning the characters, I'd expect at least 40+. Up until now, the roster in each successive game has increased by about 10 or so. Sakurai seems to be more reasonable in increasing the roster this way, unlike other fighting game franchises (Dragon Ball Z Budoukai Tenkaichi comes to mind).

SSB=12

+ 14

Melee=26

- 5

+18

Brawl = 39

10 each time isn't entirely accurate.

 

[mariorocks64]

would it help if I mention toad as "that toad from super mario bros 2." or... "that toad who left his bazooka at home in super mario RPG" toad could represent the dead characters who had atleast 1 role.like yoshi, this toad would be a singular character for his entire genric species of look-alikes.in wario's woods, mario could of kicked his fat butt........ but instead, they bring in toad as the main character.I said this because I looked at mario wiki. except for the dead part.
Toad really would have bad jumping. but he would have a great amount of speed. how does toad even come out of peach?


besides all this, I hope for a stage feature. where you can set the stage features to a stage.

none- nothing will happen on stages.

normal- stages will go normally as they would normally

extreme- al stages can be destroyed, or more events and action and destruction can ocurr on all stages (including final destination. it should work for wi-fi as well.
wifi should also have 3 stock instead of time limit.


Final Destination

none- the same thing. the backround will be stars.

normal- same thing but you will see the reall world, wich will have houses, some people watching. and the forest, and the ocean. then it goes through a vortex . soon, its back to space. and the cycle goes on.

extreme- in 3 minutes of the match, a meteor will destroy final destination, then the characters will land in the real world. they will land on the stage that was in the intro of SSB where mario and kirby faced off. in 6 more minutes, the meteor will destroy the stage too. then you land in an area in the real world that has people, and houses burning. in 10 minutes, the meteor will come, a cutscene will appear. the entire world explodes. and the match ends as a tie instead of sudden death.

that should add some flavor to stages.