[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

1. By SSB4 people will have forgotten Midna and be supporting that pointy sword spirit. Sakurai has really shown no intention of adding one-shots, the only one being Sheik because Ocarina was that popular and was very recent for Melee.
4. Zero Suit Samus was added for sex appeal. She has no value to the Metroid series, especially when there was Ridley. Even Dark Samus could have been a better addition.
5. We've gotten characters added for advertising in Fire Emblem and Pokemon in Melee and Brawl, but notsomuch in other series.
7. Of course it does. It's just that more people will recognize the new character.

1. Don't assume she'll be forgotten. Saria still has a fanbase after 11 years. What gives you the idea that he has no interest in one time characters?
4. Zamus was added in order to add more Metroid characters. From my understanding, Sakurai didn't do much research into who people wanted (the trophies are a good indication of this for DS), and he didn't even consider making Ridley playable for God knows what reason.
5. As I said before, there isn't any proof that Roy was added for advertising, unless I'm wrong. As for Pokemon, the only one you could possibly apply that to is Lucario, and that's the stretch because he was already popular.
7. Most people may recognize newer characters, but will they like them?

There is no Gunpei Yokoi connection. If there were one, Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch would have switched slots on the Brawl roster. The connection I see is NES... or more accurately, Famicom Disk System and Famicom.

I think you're looking too much into this. If they are arrange to be the Famicom DS and Famicom characters, then what does that make Olimar and the Kirby characters?

 

[Do or Die]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Do or Die
First of all, does anyone even KNOW if there's going to be a SSB4? That's besides the point though I suppose.

Eh, probably. Smash = money, something Nintendo can't live without.
Yeah, money. Because EVERYONE cares about money when making these games. Why not just replace all the characters with dollar bills, I'm sure Sakurai wanted it
For characters, there's are definitely some series which are plenty represented, while others are very UNDERrepresented. We don't need more Mario, Pokemon, or Zeldas (even though I HIGHLY support keeping Toon Link and adding Tetra.) We need more series like Metroid, or F-Zero. We need more characters that scream their moves before they do them!

Mario deserves at least one more character, being Nintendo's mascot. Pokemon will probably get another character in the form of a pokemon from the most recent generation, and Zelda... I'm not sure about it. I can definitely tell you that Tetra's not the best for the spot.
Counting the fact that DK and Yoshi first appeared in the Mario world, they have 6 characters. Pokemon also has 6. YES, LET'S GIVE THE SERIES WITH 6 CHARACTERS EVEN MORE! Never mind F-Zero which has 1. Why no love for Samurai Goroh?
I somewhat doubt F-Zero getting a new character.

I say we add characters like Krystal, Knuckles, and... *cough* Master Chief
Don't blame me for being a Halo fan

I don't blame you for that, it's just that MC has no business in Smash Bros.
SOLID SNAKE *COUGH COUGH*
We need Peppy the Hare! We need a character that scream at us to DO BARRELS ROLLS! or USE BOMBS WISELY! They also need to work on the game engine ALOT. Any game where I can make a pink marshmallow into a permanently HUGE pink AWESOME, should be fixed. Plus, better stages. For god's sake, who decided Mario Bros. should've been in Brawl? I'll stab their face in with a pencil. Unsharpened. That's why, I veto we replace EVERY character in the game with Captain Falcon, and ALL of the stages Big Blue! That last sentence was a joke
PEACE OUT!

EDIT: OH! And all 3 of PT's pokemon should be Mukipz! EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. lol
RE-EDIT: I dare anyone to sort out the serious parts from the sarcastic parts of all that.

I.... I.... I can't tell! D:
Sarcasm not registered.
Comments in bold.

WELL! Comments in Italics!

 

[ultimatesmashguy]

Use punctuation and capitalization pl0x.

Ahem, thanks.

Anyway, the GC will be pretty old by SSB4's time. I'm not sure if they'll make the game's console GC-adaptable (unless it's on the Wii, which is doubtful).

Wait then what do u think the consol will be for the game?

 

[Clownbot]

Yeah, money. Because EVERYONE cares about money when making these games. Why not just replace all the characters with dollar bills, I'm sure Sakurai wanted it

I SERIOUSLY can't tell whether you're agreeing with me or not here.

Counting the fact that DK and Yoshi first appeared in the Mario world, they have 6 characters. Pokemon also has 6. YES, LET'S GIVE THE SERIES WITH 6 CHARACTERS EVEN MORE! Never mind F-Zero which has 1. Why no love for Samurai Goroh?

This is counting DK and Yoshi as characters of the Mario series, when that's not what they're considered in Smash. By this logic, you should include Wario as well.

Mario and Pokemon are the two highest-selling franchises in Nintendo. In every Smash so far, the latest generation of Pokemon has gotten a character.

If there isn't a new F-Zero by SSB4's release, you can count on no more F-Zero characters.

SOLID SNAKE *COUGH COUGH*

That's because Sakurai's biased. He added Snake because he was friends with Hideo Kojima, the creator of Metal Gear. I could be wrong, but I don't think Sakurai has close ties with any of the guys at Microsoft.

WELL! Comments in Italics!

Oh really? Comments underlined!

Yeah..............

EDIT: @USM, it'll probably be the next console Nintendo releases.

 

[Do or Die]

:
Originally Posted by Do or Die
Yeah, money. Because EVERYONE cares about money when making these games. Why not just replace all the characters with dollar bills, I'm sure Sakurai wanted it

I SERIOUSLY can't tell whether you're agreeing with me or not here.
Me neither, lol
Counting the fact that DK and Yoshi first appeared in the Mario world, they have 6 characters. Pokemon also has 6. YES, LET'S GIVE THE SERIES WITH 6 CHARACTERS EVEN MORE! Never mind F-Zero which has 1. Why no love for Samurai Goroh?

This is counting DK and Yoshi as characters of the Mario series, when that's not what they're considered in Smash. By this logic, you should include Wario as well.
Forgot Wario, my bad.
Mario and Pokemon are the two highest-selling franchises in Nintendo. In every Smash so far, the latest generation of Pokemon has gotten a character.

If there isn't a new F-Zero by SSB4's release, you can count on no more F-Zero characters.
There are multiple F-Zero games out, including one out on the GameCube, so why not multiples in Melee?
SOLID SNAKE *COUGH COUGH*

That's because Sakurai's biased. He added Snake because he was friends with Hideo Kojima, the creator of Metal Gear. I could be wrong, but I don't think Sakurai has close ties with any of the guys at Microsoft.
True, I couldn't find anything right off hand, but Microsoft has worked with Nintendo in the past, and the 2 companies are on good terms, so I don't see why not.
WELL! Comments in Italics!

Oh really? Comments underlined!
YA RLY!
Yeah..............

WELL! Super comments in red!
I gotta pee, and get off of the comp. So cya for now

 

[ultimatesmashguy]

This Is My Ssb4 Roster

– Mario brothers
>mario
>luigi
>bowser
>peach
>bowser Jr.
>yoshi
>toad
>baby Mario/ Baby Luigi
>boo/king Boo
>wario
>waluigi


–donkey Kong
>donkey Kong
>diddy Kong
>dixie Kong
>king K Rool


– Sonic
>shadow
>tails
>knuckles
>blaze
>eggman
>silver


– Final Fantasy
>cloud

-- kingdom hearts
>sora
>roxas
>riku


-- LEGEND OF ZELDA
>link
>toon Link
>zelda/sheik
>ganondorf

– Pikmin
>olimar

– Metroid
>samus
>zero Suit Samus


– Kirby
>kirby
>meta Knight
>king Dedede


– Starfox
>fox
>falco
>wolf
>slippy
>krystal

– F Zero
>cpt. Falcoln
>black Shadow
>isaac

– Pokemon
>pkm Trainer
>pikachu
>deoxis
>lucario
>jigglypuff

– Fire Emblem
>marth
>roy
>ike

– Mother
>ness
>lucas

– Other
>little Mac
>ice Climbers
>mr Game And Watch
>ty
>spyro
>crash
>megaman
>ratchet And Clank
>banjo And Kazooie
>izuna
>nights
>bomberman
>rob
>snake

 

[Clownbot]

This Is My Ssb4 Roster

– Mario
>mario
>luigi
>bowser
>peach
>bowser Jr.
>yoshi
>toad
>baby Mario/ Baby Luigi
>boo/king Boo

–donkey Kong
>donkey Kong
>diddy Kong
>dixie Kong
>king K Rool



– Wario
>wario
>waluigi


– Sonic
>shadow
>tails
>knuckles
>blaze
>eggman
>silver
>espio

– Final Fantasy
>link
>toon Link
>zelda/sheik
>cloud
>sora
>roxas
>riku
>ganondorf

– Pikmin
>olimar

– Metroid
>samus
>zero Suit Samus


– Kirby
>kirby
>meta Knight
>king Dedede
– Starfox
>fox
>falco
>wolf
>slippy
>krystal

– F Zero
>cpt. Falcoln
>black Shadow

– Pokemon
>pkm Trainer
>pikachu
>deoxis
>lucario
>jigglypuff

– Fire Emblem
>marth
>roy
>ike

– Mother
>ness
>lucas

– Other
>little Mac
>ice Climbers
>mr Game And Watch
>ty
>spyro
>crash
>megaman
>ratchet And Clank
>banjo And Kazooie
>izuna
>nights
>bomberman
>rob

*stares at screen in disbelief*



*rubs eyes*

Um.... WUT?

Dude, I could go through each problem I have with this roster individually, but I don't think I have the time. For now, let me ask you this:

Is this a roster that you expect for SSB4, or a roster that you want in SSB4?

EDIT: Also, I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but I totally lol'd at the LoZ characters going under "Final Fantasy".

Make a seperate section for Link, Toon Link, Zelda/Sheik and Ganondorf labeled "Legend of Zelda", if you would be so kind.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

I just had my daily dose of rage.
Thanks you guys.

>:[

 

[Pieman0920]

That character list....wow. There are so many problems with it, even if it really is just what he wants, rather than expects. (Yoshi series isn't seperated. Waluigi in the Wario series despite being part of the Mario series. The LoZ characters being under FF....as well as KH. For a second there, I thought ROB was listed under third party due to his placement on the list.)

 

[Clownbot]

I just had my daily dose of rage.
Thanks you guys.

>:[

Was it DoD, USM, or me? You don't have to feel obligated to answer, I just love getting my nose into other peoples' business.

 

[Arcadenik]

KumaOso... look at the Brawl roster. It has 9 columns and 4 rows. Also, notice that all the SSB veterans are on top, followed by Melee veterans and the Brawl newcomers are on the bottom. Each column also appears to have a theme.

Column 1: Mario main series
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser

Column 2: Mario spin-off franchises - these franchises branched from the Mario main series
5. Donkey Kong
6. Diddy Kong
7. Yoshi
8. Wario

Column 3: Zelda series
9. Link
10. Zelda / Sheik
11. Ganondorf
12. Toon Link

Column 4: NES franchises - these franchises debuted on the NES
13. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
14. Pit
15. Ice Climbers
16. R.O.B.

Column 5: Kirby series + Olimar
17. Kirby
18. Meta Knight
19. King Dedede
20. Olimar

Column 6: Star Fox series + Captain Falcon
21. Fox
22. Falco
23. Wolf
24. Captain Falcon

Column 7: Pokemon series
25. Pikachu
26. Pokemon Trainer
27. Lucario
28. Jigglypuff (the only veteran out of place but that's because she was a late addition)

Column 8: Famicom RPG franchises - these RPG franchises debuted on the Famicom
29. Marth
30. Ike
31. Ness
32. Lucas

Column 9: Mr. Game & Watch + Third Party franchises
33. Mr. Game & Watch
34. Snake
35. Sonic
36. Random

So, if you look at the NES column, you'd notice that Pit, a Brawl newcomer, comes before Ice Climbers, a Melee veteran. A clue that this column is split into two groups: Famicom Disk System and Famicom.

As for Olimar, Captain Falcon, and Mr. Game & Watch, there were no other places on the roster they could really go to. But notice that Olimar and Captain Falcon are placed next to each other, a possible reference to "The Two Captains" in the Subspace Emissary movies? Hmmm...

It is also possible that Olimar was grouped with the Kirby characters because he is tiny like them. It is also possible that Captain Falcon was grouped with the Star Fox characters because F-Zero and Star Fox debuted on the Super Famicom (SNES). Again, keeping up with the themes.

Notice that Fire Emblem and Mother characters are in the same column. It is likely because their franchises used to be Japan-only and the first games debuted on the Famicom. There's also the fact that both franchises are RPGs. More keeping up with the themes.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Was it DoD, USM, or me? You don't have to feel obligated to answer, I just love getting my nose into other peoples' business.

first two.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Nice evaluation Arcadenik.
Thats sum srs bsns right there.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

To be blunt, yes. Its not like Peach and Luigi should be switched over to be stars of their own series, just because they have had spin off games. One was previously just a pallete swap, and the other was a perpetual damsel in distress. They both had fairly unimportant or placeholder roles, until their own games, where they got to shine on their own. Instead though, they were put into the series that best represented them as a whole. Tingle has had multiple games that have ingrained him into the LoZ series, and while he has had two games of his own that have seperated him somewhat, as of now, he's still better associated with the series he came from.

You're suggesting that Peach and Luigi -- two of the main characters who have a major role in 95% of all Mario games -- are unimportant. How can I take you seriously at this point?

Keep in mind Tingle's roles in LoZ:
- Map seller in Majora's Mask, no plot relevance
- Part of the trade sequence in Oracle of Ages, no plot relevance
- Translates Triforce Charts, uses the Tingle Tuner in Wind Waker, slight plot relevance
- Shows up to take Force Gems sometimes in Four Swords Adventures, no plot relevance
- Fuses Kinstones as a sidequest in Minish Cap, no plot relevance

Most of the time he's about as prominent as a generic shopkeeper. He's unimportant to the Zelda main series and that's totally fine because he's got his own games now.

The thing about using a term like five years, is that its deceptive about how many games have actually been made inbetween. In the Legend of Zelda's case, its only been really two, if you don't count that crossbow training thing. As I said before, Luigi got left out of two mainstream Mario games, while he was getting his own game, and that didn't change his status. Since refferences to Tingle still showed up in each game, its still dubious to say that he's even seperated from the series at all, since its not like there's a refference to Ganondorf in MM, PH, and most of the other games where he doesn't have a main role.

Except Luigi is a MAJOR character. He was still standing next to Mario in other games that weren't 64 or Sunshine (of which there were plenty). Ganon appears anytime the Triforce is mentioned because you can't have a Triforce story without him. They can both take breaks from a couple of games because they'll always be relevant. The closest Tingle ever had to being important in a Zelda game was deciphering Triforce charts.

Think of it this way: Bowser kidnaps Peach. Mario and Luigi go to rescue her, Yoshi and Toad might show up. Maybe Bowser Jr. or the Koopalings too. And that's it. No Donkey Kong, no Wario (except that one time). Why would they? They've got their own games, their own casts, their own quests. They could very easily fit into a regular Mario game (like 64DS, not Mario Kart) with pretty much any justification Miyamoto feels like, but they don't. They're not important to the main story.

Does that make them any less important in the grand scheme of things? No, they both have their own successful series where Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser are nowhere to be found. If Miyamoto tried to wedge them into the main Mario titles every time, they wouldn't have any chance to grow. Keep in mind that DK and Wario were both major antagonists to Mario before starring in their own games. Can you imagine Tingle trying to grow in any sense being confined to minor appearances in Zelda games?

Sure. The LoZ has a lot of reccuring elements, despite its different timeline deal. Marin could very well be a differnt incarnation of Malon, like Purlo could be a incarnation of Tingle. In Purlo's case though, its just more obvious, since it was even confirmed that he was basically a realistic Tingle.

They're different enough that they're separate characters, even if they were designed with the previous character in mind. Do you consider two twins to be the same person too? Real life twins, not the kind on TV that dress alike and end each others sentences.

What's wrong with making this comparison? Why are you saying its a horrible analogy if you don't have time to read it? All I'm saying is that the situation you're putting Tingle in is a lot like that of Luigi, who wans't showing up in the main Mario series for awhile, and was getting his own games for a time, and thus possibly warented his own series, yet in the end didn't get it.

Tingle is unimportant. If he doesn't appear in a couple games, it could be a while before we see him again. Luigi is very important. The number of games he appears in (with a major role) greatly outnumbers the ones he doesn't appear in at all. And I'd hardly call Luigi's Mansion (or Mario is Missing!) to be his own series when Mario still has a major role in both games. Tingle isn't rescuing Link, he's doing his own thing.

The comparison is flat out ******** because it assumes Tingle is in any way analogous to Luigi.

Given that Smash is pretty much a big Nintendo ad, and that the Zelda series is still going strong, its really is inevitable that it will get a new character, even if you are going to make Tingle seperate.

I've already made a big post on why this line of thinking is faulty. Short version: Sakurai doesn't add characters to promote series (except Roy, but he could've used Sigurd/Celice/Leaf if he really cared). He adds individual characters based on the reception they get and whatever he feels is best. Your line of thinking is the same that assumed Star Fox would never get a 3rd character, that Mario and Zelda were "definitely going to get someone new," regardless of how important they are to the series.

Zelda isn't getting another character because Zelda has no other characters worth adding. Although I guess semantics would lead you to believe that I'm saying Tingle has no chance when I think he has a pretty decent one. It just has nothing to do with the Zelda main series at all.

 

[lordvaati]

This Is My Ssb4 Roster

– Mario
>mario
>luigi
>bowser
>peach
>bowser Jr.
>yoshi
>toad
>baby Mario/ Baby Luigi
>boo/king Boo

–donkey Kong
>donkey Kong
>diddy Kong
>dixie Kong
>king K Rool



– Wario
>wario
>waluigi


– Sonic
>shadow
>tails
>knuckles
>blaze
>eggman
>silver
>espio

– Final Fantasy
>link
>toon Link
>zelda/sheik
>cloud
>sora
>roxas
>riku
>ganondorf

– Pikmin
>olimar

– Metroid
>samus
>zero Suit Samus


– Kirby
>kirby
>meta Knight
>king Dedede
– Starfox
>fox
>falco
>wolf
>slippy
>krystal

– F Zero
>cpt. Falcoln
>black Shadow

– Pokemon
>pkm Trainer
>pikachu
>deoxis
>lucario
>jigglypuff

– Fire Emblem
>marth
>roy
>ike

– Mother
>ness
>lucas

– Other
>little Mac
>ice Climbers
>mr Game And Watch
>ty
>spyro
>crash
>megaman
>ratchet And Clank
>banjo And Kazooie
>izuna
>nights
>bomberman
>rob

Ok, skimming through your list, I will address the main probs.

-For the Mario series, Toad, the babies and Bowser Jr are understandable, but King boo is too obscure to be a fighter. also, he floats in the air, and as MH showed in Melee, People who can float forever=never dying.

-Waluigi technically has never appeared in any Wario game, ever, so he can't be series rep.With starfox, it's a running joke that Slippy never gets in, so nah.

-Zelda and KH=/= Final Fantasy. so Cloud is the only actual FF character.

-Ok, this is my theory on reps. reps do not actually represent the series- they represent the COMPANY. this means that the rep is the symbol or mascot of said company in Smash. Snake is arguably he most popular Konami character. Sonic is obviously the most popular SEGA one. there were rumors that Pac-man was gonna be an AT, and hes the most popular Namco character. people want Megaman, who is the most popular Capcom character. so, going by this Logic, that means that only that character ALONE can be a fighter. so none of your Sonic characters could be in, by that logic. Besides, Espio is too obscure outside of the Sonic community to be viable, anyway.this also means that the Square rep for you is either Cloud or Sora.

-now, with Crash and Spyro, they are owned by Vivendi, which was recently bought by Activision, so they would have an Activison rep, who would be Crash, no doubt. not many people know or care about Ty, so nope. lastly, Ratchet is owned by Sony, and Banjo is (now)owned by Microsoft, so they can NEVER get in.

that is all.

 

[Zario777]

Speaking of Zelda, I researched Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass to give Toon Link a new set of Specials:
B=Bombchu
DownB=Skull Hammer (shockwave can trip)
SideB=Deku Leaf (creates a whirlwind)
UpB=Deku Leaf (air)
FS=Couldn't find one

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Speaking of Zelda, I researched Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass to give Toon Link a new set of Specials:
B=Bombchu
DownB=Skull Hammer (shockwave can trip)
SideB=Deku Leaf (creates a whirlwind)
UpB=Deku Leaf (air)
FS=Couldn't find one

THATS EXACTLY what everyone wanted.
The Final Smash would be the summoning of the red toad/frog looking wind god and he'll make a twister. And like in Windwaker, Pressing buttons on the screen like DDR would make it more powerful.

If Toon Link would get such a move set, i would so main him.
Though besides the recovery working like Peach's, the Deku leaf should be a spacing attack with minimal damage.
OR
Side B should be Toon Link's awesome counter attack from WW.
It'll be like marths, but upon contact in WW, TL would roll around the enemy and do a upper cut with the sword.
So in a way, this'll be Lucario-esque.

 

[Deathcarter]

Adding my own opinion, outside of Ridley, King K. Rool, 5th gen pokemon rep, Little Mac, and possibly Issac (or another Golden Sun rep) and Tingle, I don't think their is any other Nintendo character is CLEARLY deserving of a spot on the SSB4 roster over all of the remaining choices based on noterity. By clearly deserving, I mean by their exclusion, Sakurai would be portraying absolute ignorance to Nintendo's history and fanbase. Every big player at that point would have already been included in the game.

I think when Nintendo reaches that point, I think the idea of Nintendo adding characters based on what they can feasibly add to the roster as a whole, whether it be already existing popularity (like Midna despite being minor), the capability to be well liked by the general Smash audience in SSB4 (someone like Hector from FE7 imo), uniqueness in character (Starfy), or simple awesomeness (Captain Rainbow), as opposed to series rep or squabling over which C/D tier Nintendo character is most deserving of being in the next iteration based on their little noterity.

People arguing about who was most deserving of limited roster space was reasonable during before Brawl's release, but at the point of SSB4, I really hope that we realize that complaning about "so and so" taking the spot of "so and so (as long as it isn't one of the six I presume most of us agree that should get into the game)" is utterly rediculous at that point, as opposed to being merely pointless when Brawl was released.

 

[Zario777]

THATS EXACTLY what everyone wanted.
The Final Smash would be the summoning of the red toad/frog looking wind god and he'll make a twister. And like in Windwaker, Pressing buttons on the screen like DDR would make it more powerful.

If Toon Link would get such a move set, i would so main him.
Though besides the recovery working like Peach's, the Deku leaf should be a spacing attack with minimal damage.
OR
Side B should be Toon Link's awesome counter attack from WW.
It'll be like marths, but upon contact in WW, TL would roll around the enemy and do a upper cut with the sword.
So in a way, this'll be Lucario-esque.

Yay! som1 actually liked my post!

My SSB4 Roster

Mario Series:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
King Boo*

DK Series:
DK
Diddy
3rd DK character (Dixie, Tiny, Chunky, or Lankey)*
King K. Rool

Yoshi Series:
Yoshi
Baby Mario* + Baby Luigi(?)*

Wario Series:
Wario
Waluigi

LoZ Series:
Link
Zelda/Shiek
Ganon
Toon Link

Metroid Series:
Samus
Zamus
Ridley(?)

Retro Series:
Pit
Ice Climbers
Mr. Game and Watch
ROB
Little Mac(?)

Kirby Series:
Kirby
Meta
DDD

Pikmin Series:
Olimar
Louie* (not a clone)

Fox Series:
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal

F-Zero Series:
Captain Falcon
Black Shadow(?)

Pokemon Series:
Pika
PT
Mewtwo
Jiggs

Fire Emblem Series:
Marth
Ike
3rd FE Lord(?)
Roy*

Earthbound/Mother series
Ness
Lucas
2 more(?)*

3rd Party
Sonic
2nd Sonic Character*
Snake
Megaman(?)

Other Series:
2 New Series

*=Not expecting, but would be cool IMO
(?)=Not for or against
Both=Don't really care

Also, I thought that the Mario, LoZ, and Pokemon series should get another one. (not expecting but would be cool IMO)

Paper Mario Series:
Paper Mario (PM1 and 2)
Paper Luigi (SPM)
Lord Crump
Dimentio

Toon Series:
Toon Link
Toon Zelda/Tetra
Tingle

Pokemon New Generation: (Lucario gets moved here, Mewtwo takes his place)
Lucario
PT New
5th Gen Pokemon
New Legendary Pokemon

 

[ultimatesmashguy]

jees! im sorry for putting up the characters that i think would fit the game quite nicely and all i get are complaints i know i didnt consider the companies in all this i just chose some nice fighter sorry god! so anyways ive heard enough about the kingdom hearts thing so i dont need to hear about that anymore I just like the characters and think they would be great fighters so im sorry for posting my opinions i thought thats what a forum is for

 

[Arcadenik]

In 2005, Sakurai was approached to make a new Smash game. Right after he was approached, he made the roster. About a year before Brawl was officially announced and most certainly before he asked the Japanese fans what they wanted. Look at what was happening in 2005... and what had just happened in the last 5 years before 2005 and what was going to happen in 2006 right when Brawl was officially announced.

Meta Knight
He was the 3rd choice in the Kirby category on the Melee poll after King Dedede and Gooey. Gooey was skipped over because he wouldn't work as a viable Smash fighter due to lack of limbs. Meta Knight is also one of Sakurai's creations. Sakurai didn't add Meta Knight in Melee because he didn't want to appear too biased by adding Kirby characters before other characters.

Pit
Classic NES Series were a series of 12 NES games released on the GBA in 2004. In Japan, it was called Famicom Mini Series and it had 30 Famicom and Famicom Disk System games. Kid Icarus was part of the Famicom Mini Series. Kid Icarus sold pretty well enough to motivate Sakurai to add Pit.

Zero Suit Samus
Since the releases of Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion in 2002, the Metroid franchise was finally revived after the last game in 1994 and quickly became one of Nintendo's key franchises. Metroid: Zero Mission came out in 2004, where Zero Suit Samus was playable in the end of the game (a reference to the "Justin Bailey" Samus from the original Metroid).

Wario
He was the 3rd choice in the Mario category on the Melee choice after Bowser and Peach. In 2003, Wario's franchise was reinvented - going from Wario Land to WarioWare. It would explain Wario's default costume was from WarioWare, not Wario Land.

Snake
Sakurai claimed that Kojima "practically begged" him to add Snake in Melee. But the game was almost complete and there wouldn't be time to add Snake. Now, remember that Sakurai said that third-party characters could be in Smash if they appeared in at least one game on Nintendo systems. I suspect Sakurai told Kojima this and it would explain why there is only one Metal Gear game on Gamecube and nothing else on Gamecube and Wii. Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes was released in 2004 and it was just a remake of the original Playstation game. This is probably what Sakurai meant by "practically begging". What other reason would you make a game on a Nintendo console when the series is primarily released on Sony consoles unless you really want your character to be in Smash.

Ike
Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance came out in 2005. This was the same year Sakurai came up with the Brawl roster. Sakurai likely added Ike because he was the most recent protagonist of the Fire Emblem series at that time... just like how Roy was added in Melee because he was going to be the most recent protagonist of the Fire Emblem series at that time.

Pokemon Trainer
Red was the 3rd choice in the Pokemon category on the Melee poll after Mewtwo and Mew. Mew was skipped over because it doesn't look like it would work as a viable Smash fighter. The 1st generation was revived in 2004 with the release of Pokemon FireRed and LeafGreen, making Red and the starters relevant during the 3rd generation.

Diddy Kong
He was the only Donkey Kong character on the Melee poll. At the time Melee came out, Diddy Kong would have been considered a Rare character like Banjo and Conker. That's why he was put in the Rare category on the Melee poll. But since then, Nintendo got all the rights to Donkey Kong characters created by Rare so Diddy Kong is now a Nintendo character.

Lucas
Lucas may have been originally planned to replace Ness in Melee... but Mother 3 (EarthBound 64) was cancelled back in 2000 so Ness stayed. But Mother 3 was finally released on the GBA in 2006, making Lucas the most recent protagonist of the Mother series... and Sakurai decided to keep Ness as well (Mother 1 + 2 came out in Japan in 2003).

King Dedede
He was the 1st choice in the Kirby category on the Melee poll. King Dedede is also one of Sakurai's creations. Sakurai didn't add King Dedede in Melee because he didn't want to appear too biased by adding Kirby characters before other characters.

Olimar
Pikmin was the only new character-driven franchise that didn't fail on the Gamecube. It had two successful games in 2001 and 2004. Animal Crossing may be a new successful franchise on the Gamecube but its not character-driven like Pikmin is.

Lucario
The latest Pokemon movie in 2005 was Lucario and the Mystery of Mew. This was the same year Sakurai came up with the Brawl roster. Lucario was most likely added to promote the 4th generation that was coming soon in 2006.

R.O.B.
R.O.B. was an unlockable character in Mario Kart DS. The game came out in 2005. Sakurai probably thought it would be funny if R.O.B. was a playable character like he was in Mario Kart DS. He himself told Iwata and I quote "I like surprises, or even more appropriately, you might say I love a good prank". Its possible Sakurai added R.O.B. for the lulz.

As for the late additions in Brawl... it is possible they were added in early 2007.

Toon Link
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker came out in 2003 and it was a success. Toon Link went on to appear in Toon Zelda games like Four Swords Adventures (2004), The Minish Cap (2004), and Phantom Hourglass (2006). Toon Link was included as a replacement for Young Link and because clones are easier and quicker to add.

Wolf
Star Fox 64 was released on the Virtual Console in 2007. Its the most successful Star Fox game and Wolf debuted in that game. Wolf was included because clones are easier and quicker to add.

Sonic
Nintendo and Sega joined forces and made Sakurai add Sonic to appease the Sonic fanboys and everyone else who wanted their "Mario vs. Sonic" fight since the SNES vs. Genesis console war in the 1990s. I believe Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games in 2007 cemented the deal.

 

[UberMario]

Well here is the roster that I expect (not necessarily want) for SSB4:

Mario Bros.:
-Mario
-Dr. Mario
-Luigi
-Peach
-Bowser
-Toad
-Fawful
-Bowser Jr.

Paper Mario:
-Paper Mario

Yoshi:
-Yoshi
-Kamek
-Baby Mario
-Shy Guy

Donkey Kong:
-Donkey Kong
-Diddy & Dixie
-King K. Rool

WarioWare:
-Wario
-Waluigi (Technically he's a Mario character, but he teams up with Wario constantly so . . . .)

Kirby:
-Kirby
-DeDeDe
-Meta-Knight
-Rick
-Gooey

Pokemon:
-Pokemon Trainer
-Pikachu
-Raichu
-Mewtwo
-Lucario
-Jigglypuff
- Plusle & Minun/ Pichu Bros.
- Garchomp

Star Fox:
-Fox
-Falco
-Wolf
-Krystal
-Leon
-Slippy

F-Zero:
-Captain Falcon
-Samurai Goroh

Earthbound:
-Ninten
-Ness
-Lucas

Metroid:
-Samus
-Ridley

Fire Emblem:
-Marth
-Roy
-Ike
-Lyn

Pikmin:
-Olimar
-Louie

Retro:
-ROB
-Mr. Game & Watch
-Sukapon
-Ice Climbers
-Pit
-Little Mac

Sonic:
-Sonic
-Tails
-Knuckles

Metal Gear:
-Snake

MegaMan:
-MegaMan

If Square-Enix could settle their differences with Nintendo then I would add Geno and Mallow.

 

[Wizzerd]

roster

• Dr. Mario, Toad and Fawful have very little chance.
• Four reps for Yoshi? It barely deserves to be counted as its own series.
• Teaming up Diddy and Dixie would be great for Dixie but HORRIBLE for Diddy. Don't drag down the chimp with the has-been now-a-spinoff character.
• Waluigi is not only a Mario series character, he's a filler spinoff character. If you need to add another rep to Wario add Mona or maybe Captain Syrup.
• Rick and Gooey are absolutely unnecesary.
• Raichu couldn't be much different from Pikachu, a fifth generation Pokemon will get in before Mewtwo returns, Plusle and Minun are insignificant and were probably considered as a dual-Pikachu clone, and Garchomp... did you just pick him because you like him as a character? -_-
• Three reps for Star Fox was pushing it... six is absolutely ridiculous!
• Mother was very lucky that it got a second rep. Hell it's lucky to have even got a rep at all (in the first game, no less) considering how obscure and niche it is. Besides, if there was another rep for it it would be a Mother 3 character, not the outdated Ninten, who honestly can't be much different from Ness...
• Four Fire Emblem characters? Cut Lyn right now and replace Roy with a new lord (which is very likely).
• Pikmin... only needs one rep... *eye twitches*
• Sukapon is very unlikely. If you're going to have another retro character it should be Lip or Diskun.
• Third parties won't get multiple characters.
• Geno? Emphasis on no. Mallow is even less likely (even though I far prefer him as a character).
• 61 is 11 more characters than can be reasonably expected.
• Needs moar new series characters.

 

[RickyPro]

Well here is the roster that I expect (not necessarily want) for SSB4:

Screw it, I had a bunch of crap written, but it is not worth listening to Wizzerd's infinite wisdom. So whatever....

 

[Volkner582]

Some of these characters (Toad, Shy Guy and Garchomp) are a bit too generic.

 

[lordvaati]

jees! im sorry for putting up the characters that i think would fit the game quite nicely and all i get are complaints i know i didnt consider the companies in all this i just chose some nice fighter sorry god! so anyways ive heard enough about the kingdom hearts thing so i dont need to hear about that anymore I just like the characters and think they would be great fighters so im sorry for posting my opinions i thought thats what a forum is for

no no no no no, your opinions are fine, I was just addressing their liklihood of appearing inside of the next Smash. after all, this thread is about discussing the chances of what we think happening in the next Smash.
besides, even if there is only one Rep per company, it doesn't mean the others won't appear in stages or trophies. the Sonic series did. it's no biggie

 

[UberMario]

• Dr. Mario, Toad and Fawful have very little chance.
• Four reps for Yoshi? It barely deserves to be counted as its own series.
• Teaming up Diddy and Dixie would be great for Dixie but HORRIBLE for Diddy. Don't drag down the chimp with the has-been now-a-spinoff character.
• Waluigi is not only a Mario series character, he's a filler spinoff character. If you need to add another rep to Wario add Mona or maybe Captain Syrup.
• Rick and Gooey are absolutely unnecesary.
• Raichu couldn't be much different from Pikachu, a fifth generation Pokemon will get in before Mewtwo returns, Plusle and Minun are insignificant and were probably considered as a dual-Pikachu clone, and Garchomp... did you just pick him because you like him as a character? -_-
• Three reps for Star Fox was pushing it... six is absolutely ridiculous!
• Mother was very lucky that it got a second rep. Hell it's lucky to have even got a rep at all (in the first game, no less) considering how obscure and niche it is. Besides, if there was another rep for it it would be a Mother 3 character, not the outdated Ninten, who honestly can't be much different from Ness...
• Four Fire Emblem characters? Cut Lyn right now and replace Roy with a new lord (which is very likely).
• Pikmin... only needs one rep... *eye twitches*
• Sukapon is very unlikely. If you're going to have another retro character it should be Lip or Diskun.
• Third parties won't get multiple characters.
• Geno? Emphasis on no. Mallow is even less likely (even though I far prefer him as a character).
• 61 is 11 more characters than can be reasonably expected.
• Needs moar new series characters.

Dr. Mario has been in once, Toad is the only one of the "Big Mario 8" not a playable character in Brawl. Fawful is the only recurring villan in more than two main games.

Yoshi is under-represented. Kamek should at least be a second rep.

Ice Climbers say hi.

Waluigi has become more diverse as of lately, plus C. Syrup hasn't been in as many games.

Rick is the most popular of Kirby's helpers that isn't directly playable. Gooey has a bigger fanbase than Meta-Knight.

There are so many movesets that can be made for Pichu and Raichu that still correspond to the game that it woudl be easy to declone them. Garchomp is pretty unique. Plusel & Minun could be unique as well.

Meh, I probably went a little overboard with Star Fox.

They've got two of the three main stars, why not add the other? Plus there are enough moves to declone them.

Fire Emblem is becoming pretty popular.

Not if Pikmin 3 comes out.

Make a moveset for Lip that isn't bordering upon ridiculous. Go ahead.

*Looks at Mario & Sonic, which was made by a third-party*

Geno is one of the most requested Mario characters, while Mallow would be unique.

35 is 10 less than what we reasonably expected.

If you're talking about Mach Rider, Balloon Fighter, and Pulseman, fine. I can't think of any other worthy characters.

No Zelda characters?

Woops,

Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Aganhim
Vaati
Toon Link

 

[ultimatesmashguy]

no no no no no, your opinions are fine, I was just addressing their liklihood of appearing inside of the next Smash. after all, this thread is about discussing the chances of what we think happening in the next Smash.
besides, even if there is only one Rep per company, it doesn't mean the others won't appear in stages or trophies. the Sonic series did. it's no biggie

Thanks man your a nice guy. I understand what your saying thanks. I took a long time on that roster like all night looking up good characters hey dont you think they need more F Zero characters?

 

[RickyPro]

Ok, I was hoping the the lack of Zleda was a mistake. I don't think that Agahnim will be there.
Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Vaati, Toon Link, Tingle.
This is what I agree with. Or am at least hoping for.

 

[lordvaati]

here's an interesting question: how many of the scrapped data characters do you think will be in Smash 4?

 

[n88]

@UberMario

That is definitely not the roster I would expect. I'm staying away from expecting anything until SSB4 is announced. I think it's too early to predict what characters will and won't get in. All I can say for sure is that I will be shocked if Little Mac isn't playable.

Instead, I'm posting my fantasy roster, out of boredom. (NOT a prediction)

Column 1 (On CSS)
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Fawful

Column 2
DK
Diddy/Dixie
King K. Rool
Yoshi
Wario
Captain Syrup

Column 3
Link (Wolf Link)
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Tetra/Toon Zelda
Tingle

Column 4
Samus (ZSS)
Ridley
Ice Climbers
Pit
ROB
Little Mac

Column 5
Kirby
Meta Kinght
King Dedede
Ness
Lucas
Lip

Column 6
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Column 7
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Plusle & Minun

Column 8
Marth
Roy
Ike
Micaiah
Isaac
Momohime

Column 9
Olimar
Starfy
Ray Mk III
Saki
Andy
Mach Rider

Column 10
Mr. Game & Watch
Snake
Sonic
Megaman
Yoshimitsu
Random

 

[lordvaati]

Yoshimitsu? like Tekken Yoshimitsu?o_O....well, he is in Soul Calibur too, though he would be an intresting(and kind of bizarre) Namco rep. just saying.

also, hell yes, Plusle& Minun.

 

[n88]

@lordvaati
I was thinking Soulcalibur Yoshimitsu. I love the SC series, so I'm a tad biased, but I don't think a SC rep is out of the question. Since Yoshimistsu's already in two fighting games, I figured he might as well add a third to his repertioire.

 

[Wizzerd]

Dr. Mario has been in once, Toad is the only one of the "Big Mario 8" not a playable character in Brawl. Fawful is the only recurring villan in more than two main games.

Yes he has but he was nothing but a clone and many people have a disdain for him. Koopa Troopa is in the Big 8, and the Big 8 is from the original outdated Mario Kart game. Toad is now a generic race, and even in NSMB Wii it's just two random yellow and blue Toads. What about Bowser and Jr.? Besides, Fawful just doesn't have the significance besides many other Mario series characters.

Yoshi is under-represented. Kamek should at least be a second rep.

In Mario platformer games you defeat Bowser. In Yoshi platformer games you defeat Bowser. How unique. How is Yoshi underrepped? There haven't been many recent Yoshi games.

Ice Climbers say hi.

*facepalm* Popo and Nana have similar significance and both are sort of parts of each other, in a way. Diddy and Dixie only teamed up in one game for the SNES, and both are now unique characters. However, Diddy is still significant whereas Dixie is a spinoff character, and he's more popular.

Waluigi has become more diverse as of lately, plus C. Syrup hasn't been in as many games.

Diversity doesn't really matter when you realize that Waluigi is a filler for spinoffs. Yes Smash is a spinoff yet we don't see Birdo or Daisy. Captain Syrup is the best option as a character to represent the under-repped Wario Land, though she is by no means a perfect option.

Rick is the most popular of Kirby's helpers that isn't directly playable. Gooey has a bigger fanbase than Meta-Knight.

And how recent is he? All of the Kirby characters who are at all recognizable, significant and popular are already in. Don't be going by that one little Japanese poll to say Gooey is more popular, Meta Knight is far more recognizable.

There are so many movesets that can be made for Pichu and Raichu that still correspond to the game that it woudl be easy to declone them. Garchomp is pretty unique. Plusel & Minun could be unique as well.

So you're adding them solely based on moveset potential?

Meh, I probably went a little overboard with Star Fox.

Yes you did.

They've got two of the three main stars, why not add the other? Plus there are enough moves to declone them.

Bad logic, just being a main star means little when your game is obscure and forgotten whereas Mother 3 is not.

Fire Emblem is becoming pretty popular.

It's very popular in Japan but notsomuch outside of it.

Not if Pikmin 3 comes out.

It all depends on how it sells, so it's hard to say yet. Besides, three games isn't very much...

Make a moveset for Lip that isn't bordering upon ridiculous. Go ahead.

B: Garbage Block
B>: Block Toss
B^: That thing Lip sat on in the menu
Bv: Counter causing flower-head
Final Smash: Block combo

*Looks at Mario & Sonic, which was made by a third-party*

*facepalm again* We are talking about SSB4. We are not talking about Mario and Sonic. Rules from completely seperate games do not apply.

Geno is one of the most requested Mario characters, while Mallow would be unique.

Geno is only recognizable on message boards. Most people outside of them would be far more likely to recognize Bowser Jr. or Paper Mario. Being unique doesn't mean anything as a suitable moveset can be crafted for any character.

35 is 10 less than what we reasonably expected.

You're arguing against yourself here. If we get less characters than expected your roster is even less reasonable.

If you're talking about Mach Rider, Balloon Fighter, and Pulseman, fine. I can't think of any other worthy characters.

No, I'm talking about the GS3 protagonist, Tom Nook, Ray MK III, Ray and possibly Starfy. Those are all retro characters who are not popular.

Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Aganhim
Vaati
Toon Link

Vaati hasn't appeared since early 2005 and Agahnim is horribly outdated. If there's another Zelda rep it will be Tingle (deal with it).

Screw it, I had a bunch of crap written, but it is not worth listening to Wizzerd's infinite wisdom. So whatever....

??? You can still comment if I did, can't you?

EDIT: n88, what's sad is that your roster is better than UberMario's despite it being a wishlist rather than prediction.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Come to think of it, in light of what has been recently going on in this topic concerning roster wishlists, I've changed my mind and decided not to post my hypothetical roster.

There's no point for me to post my roster if it will get criticized and nitpicked anyway, so...yeah.

*Arcadenik's in-depth analysis of the creation of Brawl's roster*

That is well-done, I must say. I hope that everyone else will take the time to read this before posting anything else in this topic.

 

[RickyPro]

@Wizzerd, you make it really hard to want to post here, every idea that I have seen other post, you shoot it down instantly and say that everything you know is a lot more significant than anything else. I understand that you like being in this thread and all, but you are not Sakurai, and I do not think that your views on certain characters are anything near accurate to what they could be.

I am a big fan of Waluigi. I really am. And him being in a lot of Mario games, having relationships with many of the characters, having really unique traits and abilities, and also just being there he is just as likely as Tingle if you ask me. (I am not going to say "If here is another Wario/Mario rep is going to be Waluigi. Face it.") But I know that you are a big Tingle-person and that your obsession will not get him a better chance.\. Whether or not everyone likes or dislikes him, it is not definite that he is in. So just stop.
If we go off of older posts where people say things like "Sakurai will add characters that people LIKE to play as", then why not Waluigi? What makes Tingle so much more superior than him? I like Tingle too, but I am not "Orgasming" over any of it.

Come to think of it, in light of what has been recently going on in this topic concerning roster wishlists, I've changed my mind and decided not to post my hypothetical roster.

There's no point for me to post my roster if it will get criticized and nitpicked anyway, so...yeah.



That is well-done, I must say. I hope that everyone else will take the time to read this before posting anything else in this topic.

I know right....

 

[Wizzerd]

@Wizzerd, you make it really hard to want to post here, every idea that I have seen other post, you shoot it down instantly and say that everything you know is a lot more significant than anything else. I understand that you like being in this thread and all, but you are not Sakurai, and I do not think that your views on certain characters are anything near accurate to what they could be.

I do not say that my opinion is any more valid than anybody else's. I am just trying to give my honest criticism of anything that's put out there. And I do not shoot down everything, I have commented positively about justaway12's roster and n88_2004's. Don't expect me to act like everything everybody posts is a work of art. I am not going to wear silk gloves.

And Waluigi is completely unlikely. He was spontaneously generated to give Wario a tennis partner and has not done anything at all significant. Being exclusive to spinoffs, he is overshadowed by countless other Mario characters, and many people have a disdain for him. Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and even Toad and Dr. Mario are more likely than him.

 

[n88]

@Wizzerd, you make it really hard to want to post here, every idea that I have seen other post, you shoot it down instantly and say that everything you know is a lot more significant than anything else. I understand that you like being in this thread and all, but you are not Sakurai, and I do not think that your views on certain characters are anything near accurate to what they could be.

I am a big fan of Waluigi. I really am. And him being in a lot of Mario games, having relationships with many of the characters, having really unique traits and abilities, and also just being there he is just as likely as Tingle if you ask me. (I am not going to say "If here is another Wario/Mario rep is going to be Waluigi. Face it.") But I know that you are a big Tingle-person and that your obsession will not get him a better chance.\. Whether or not everyone likes or dislikes him, it is not definite that he is in. So just stop.
If we go off of older posts where people say things like "Sakurai will add characters that people LIKE to play as", then why not Waluigi? What makes Tingle so much more superior than him? I like Tingle too, but I am not "Orgasming" over any of it.

In Wizzerd's defense, UberMario's roster was a bit ridiculous. He predicted Shy Guy, Rick, Leon, and more Sonic characters. We may not be Sakurai, but that seems nigh impossible.

I'm all for Waluigi appearing in SSB4 IF he makes some non-spin-off appearances. (He's got a big chance coming up with NSMB Wii)

Waluigi doesn't really have "relationships with many of the characters". He was created as a Doubles partner for Wario in Mario Tennis, and sice then, he's just been used as a filler character.

 

[RickyPro]

See? I didn't say he was THE NEXT PERSON IN. I don't think anybody here really is talking about how likely it is for somebody to get in. Nobody expects you to make them feel like they are being confronted by Sakurai to make the Roster themselves. But you don't have to act like they are making it exclusively for you to pick apart. Yeah, it is cool to talk about it, and maybe suggest other things.
But going down the list saying,
"No", "No", "No, they are not likely, if you ask me, anything else in the world that you did not say is more likely."

Is not what people come here to see. Like what you just did to the Waluigi idea.
I only said it to prove that you would go out of your way to make sure that you expressed that is was ridiculous. I am not questioning whether or not he is getting in, or not. I don't make these predictions that you do. I just suggest things, apparently so you can say they are wrong. Sorry I said something against you master Wizzerd, but this is a discussion thread, no? I don't think that people are coming here for your repetitive approvals. So seriously, can you tone it down just a bit? Or does everybody new to this have to just deal with you like you're the president? (By the way, that was a serious question. Not a dig to anger you, or anything to expect a sarcastic response to. Just a question that I am sure is valid)

@n88:
I did not say that UberMario's prediction is not ridiculous. But I think that talking about it in a discussion is a lot better than firing off facts and likelihood of appearance in the next game. Waluigi is a partner to Wario. He has a bad reputation with Peach and Mario, Bowser dislikes him, Luigi is his rival, and he apparently is attracted to Daisy who just blows him off( I am not going to say the Daisy thing is 100% true, but I have read it multiple times, so I included it)). I think that that is a better relationship status than some could say.

 

[Wizzerd]

Maybe, but I'm going to say things as I see them. If you don't want criticism than don't post.